Keeping the Sabbath tells people Who you Worship

[BarneyFife]

Yup. I think that takes a bit of wind out of that sail.

.
If it were indeed a "sail," I might agree. More of a stern line, I think. I'd have been happy to exclude it if I'd thought someone might pay it any particular mind.

IOW, "Is that all ya got?"

There promotion of the TCs was really what I would consider a promotion of what I call God's law of human conscience.

Pardon me, SS, but...

LOL - "God's law of human conscience?"

Have you ever been to a mission field? I spent 10 days about 25 years ago trying to ever-so-gently explain to a rural Bolivian who spoke nearly perfect English that it wasn't okay to steal from people when you get hungry. Yet he thought that, comparably speaking, dishonoring his parents was a capital crime. By the time I flew back home, he was still unconvinced. I took him through every illustration and scenario I could think of.

Without the Ten Commandments, we'd all be up in the trees flinging our excrement at each other, SS.

I think you're a pretty interesting fella, but if John Bunyan (author of "Pilgrim's Progress) couldn't make the "9-obvious-commandments" case, I doubt you'll get much of anywhere with it.

He wrote a book on it and I'm having an awful time finding it (I know it exists, cuz somebody who wouldn't lie told me so) but, anyway, when he was in prison he was evangelizing folks right and left and he said the only commandment inmates didn't take to pretty naturally was the 4th. At least, it was the only one he couldn't detect any guilt about when he called them on it. He thus decided that the 4th was for Jews only. I think he changed his mind about this once or twice and I'm not sure where he ended up on the matter.

There are plenty of places in the world that have no such luxury as "God's law of human conscience."

Some have used Titus 2:11 (link) and Romans 1:20 (link) to try to refute this, but I think that's a bit of a stretch.

The first four commandments are the ones that distinguish between secular and Christian civilization—all four of them:

Without a healthy appreciation for 1) God's sovereignty. 2) exclusive existence, 3) character/name, and 4) creative power, we're all just rural Washingtonian agnostics.
d'

'

 

[St. SteVen]

IOW, "Is that all ya got?"

Be careful what you wish for! - LOL


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[St. SteVen]

LOL - "God's law of human conscience?"

Yes.
Based primarily on a couple of scriptures and more if need be.

Romans 7:21-23 NIV
So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me.
22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law;
23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind
and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me.

Romans 2:14-16 NIV
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law,
do by nature things required by the law,
they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law.
15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts,
their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them
and at other times even defending them.)
16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets
through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

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[MA2444]

.
If it were indeed a "sail," I might agree. More of a stern line, I think. I'd have been happy to exclude it if I'd thought someone might pay it any particular mind.

IOW, "Is that all ya got?"



Pardon me, SS, but...

LOL - "God's law of human conscience?"

Have you ever been to a mission field? I spent 10 days about 25 years ago trying to ever-so-gently explain to a rural Bolivian who spoke nearly perfect English that it wasn't okay to steal from people when you get hungry. Yet he thought that, comparably speaking, dishonoring his parents was a capital crime. By the time I flew back home, he was still unconvinced. I took him through every illustration and scenario I could think of.

Without the Ten Commandments, we'd all be up in the trees flinging our excrement at each other, SS.

I think you're a pretty interesting fella, but if John Bunyan (author of "Pilgrim's Progress) couldn't make the "9-obvious-commandments" case, I doubt you'll get much of anywhere with it.

He wrote a book on it and I'm having an awful time finding it (I know it exists, cuz somebody who wouldn't lie told me so) but, anyway, when he was in prison he was evangelizing folks right and left and he said the only commandment inmates didn't take to pretty naturally was the 4th. At least, it was the only one he couldn't detect any guilt about when he called them on it. He thus decided that the 4th was for Jews only. I think he changed his mind about this once or twice and I'm not sure where he ended up on the matter.

There are plenty of places in the world that have no such luxury as "God's law of human conscience."

Some have used Titus 2:11 (link) and Romans 1:20 (link) to try to refute this, but I think that's a bit of a stretch.

The first four commandments are the ones that distinguish between secular and Christian civilization—all four of them:

Without a healthy appreciation for 1) God's sovereignty. 2) exclusive existence, 3) character/name, and 4) creative power, we're all just rural Washingtonian agnostics.
d'

'

Hebrews 10:16
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;.../KJV

Romans 1:20
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:.../KJV

So it sounds like the Bolivian was lying to you. All of mankind has an innate sense of right and wrong. it's called a conscience. So I suggest that the man was trying to justify his wrong doing by saying he is honoring his parents so his conscience is appeased and he can still feel like he is a good man. Because deep down inside he knows he is doing a wrong by stealing. He wont admit it because he doesnt want to stop because it is an easy life? . But scripture dont lie...the man has no excuse, he knows it is wrong. That's why God gave us a conscience. Man had conscience even before the law.

 

[St. SteVen]

John Bunyan (author of "Pilgrim's Progress) couldn't make the "9-obvious-commandments" case, I doubt you'll get much of anywhere with it.

He wrote a book on it and I'm having an awful time finding it (I know it exists, cuz somebody who wouldn't lie told me so) but, anyway, when he was in prison he was evangelizing folks right and left and he said the only commandment inmates didn't take to pretty naturally was the 4th. At least, it was the only one he couldn't detect any guilt about when he called them on it. He thus decided that the 4th was for Jews only.

I tend to agree with that.
Which is why I believe the TCs were MOSTLY/ONLY for the Israelites.
God's law of human conscience will get me on 9 of the 10.
But not on the 4th. I don't even fell obligated to Sunday.
If I lived in a town where the saints gathered on Tuesday,
that would be a problem for me. I have no allegiance to a day.
And no associated guilt.

Sometimes people receive guilt when they believe something they are taught.
Last weekend I was challenging the "born-again" requirement of Protestants that
Catholics are proselytized with. (when told the church had kept this from them)
Basically, I don't care how you establish a relationship with God, just do it.

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[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
Yup. I think that takes a bit of wind out of that sail.

If it were indeed a "sail," I might agree. More of a stern line, I think. I'd have been happy to exclude it if I'd thought someone might pay it any particular mind.

Well, here's what you wrote:

Well do Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown, in their Bible commentary, make this general observation in their comments on 2 Corinthians 3: 34

"Still the moral law of the ten commandments, being written by the linger of God, is as obligatory now as ever; but put more on the Gospel spirit of 'love,' than on the letter of a servile obedience, and in a deeper and fuller spirituality (Matthew 5.17-48; Romans 13.9)."

And I responded to say:
"2) What sort of Sabbath did these Bible commentators observe? (Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown) ???
Were they NOT worshiping and resting on the first day of the week? (Sunday) ???
If so, their support for the moral law (the TCs) differs significantly from the seventh day sabbatarian view.
Are they indeed upholding the moral law with such religious behavior?
And what about the dietary laws, etc. ? Were they compliant to the law in that respect? ???
Perhaps we can't know the answer to that. ??? "

Like Bunyan, they were upholding the 9.
So, by definition then... the moral law of the nine commandments. - LOL
Or less confusingly, God's law of human conscience.

(if I say it often enough, people will eventually believe it) - LOL

God's law of human conscience.
God's law of human conscience.
God's law of human conscience.
God's law of human conscience.
God's law of human conscience.
God's law of human conscience.
God's law of human conscience.

Got it?

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[St. SteVen]

Great post, thanks.
Wanted to highlight this bit.

Man had conscience even before the law.

Yes!

Romans 5:13-14 NIV
To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given,
but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law.
14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses,
even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam,
who is a pattern of the one to come.

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[MA2444]

I think you're a pretty interesting fella, but if John Bunyan (author of "Pilgrim's Progress) couldn't make the "9-obvious-commandments" case, I doubt you'll get much of anywhere with it.

He wrote a book on it and I'm having an awful time finding it (I know it exists, cuz somebody who wouldn't lie told me so)

Really? I own a hardback copy of that book. I love that book! I take it down and re-read the adventures of Pilgrim every now and then.

I didnt know it was unavailable. I must have got lucky with mine. It knocked on my door!
It was a real life door to door Book Salesman, and I like books so I took a look at what he had and one of them was Pilgrims Progress. John Bunyan was in prison and after he had been there for 10 years, he had a dream. The dream is the book, he wrote it down. I thought that sounded interesting so I bought it for $30

I hope you can find a copy. I might be able to give you the isbn number for it if it is on the book?

 

[MA2444]

I think you're a pretty interesting fella, but if John Bunyan (author of "Pilgrim's Progress) couldn't make the "9-obvious-commandments" case, I doubt you'll get much of anywhere with it.

He wrote a book on it and I'm having an awful time finding it

I got a zillion hits for the book on google.

The Pilgrim's Progress, Anniversary Collector's Edition

This heirloom-quality reproduction will enrich your soul---and your bookshelves! Includes The Pilgrim's Progress, The Holy War, Grace Abounding to the Chief of Sinners, The Imprisonment and Release of John Bunyan, Bunyan's Dying Sayings, Christian Behaviour, The Barren Fig Tree, Bunyan's Last...

www.christianbook.com

Amazon.com

 

[St. SteVen]

That's why God gave us a conscience.

I was just thinking about the line of reasoning for support of their position.
Seems to have never heard of human conscience, or discounts it as invalid, preferring the TCs.

Then they call Bible commentators (Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown) and John Bunyan
as reliable witnesses for their cause. (the moral law = the TCs)
Even though none of them are seventh day Sabbatarians.
Observing the nine commandments. - LOL

And the admission about no guilt regarding not "remembering" the 4th commandment... what can I say?

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[MA2444]

I was just thinking about the line of reasoning for support of their position.
Seems to have never heard of human conscience, or discounts it as invalid, preferring the TCs.

Then they call Bible commentators (Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown) and John Bunyan
as reliable witnesses for their cause. (the moral law = the TCs)
Even though none of them are seventh day Sabbatarians.
Observing the nine commandments. - LOL

And the admission about no guilt regarding not "remembering" the 4th commandment... what can I say?

/

Well, I think that when we choose to go against our conscience it hardens our heart. It is written that some go against their conscience so much, that, it sears their conscience and it effectively doesnt bother them anymore. I think that's when God gives them up to a reprobate mind?

If God gives them over to a reprobate mind...are they unreachable then? (To be brought to repentance?)

 

[St. SteVen]

If God gives them over to a reprobate mind...are they unreachable then? (To be brought to repentance?)

I would say "no", not unreachable.
I think repentance is the goal of reprobation.
The Good Shepherd WANTS to carry the lost sheep BACK to the fold.

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[Big Boy Johnson]

I would say "no", not unreachable.
I think repentance is the goal of reprobation.
The Good Shepherd WANTS to carry the lost sheep BACK to the fold.

Once turned over to a reprobate mind, one will have to recover themselves
like the prodigal son did and make the decision to return to the Lord.

2 Timothy 2:26
And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

 

[St. SteVen]

New forum topic.

What Does Christian Maturity Look Like? - "... solid food is for the mature..." - Heb. 5:14

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[Hobie]

Once turned over to a reprobate mind, one will have to recover themselves
like the prodigal son did and make the decision to return to the Lord.

2 Timothy 2:26
And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Very true my brother, very true...

 

[St. SteVen]

Very true my brother, very true...

Never heard of the Good Shepherd that leaves the ninety-nine to go after the one?

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[Big Boy Johnson]

Never heard of the Good Shepherd that leaves the ninety-nine to go after the one?

Ever wonder what happens when He finds the lost sheep that tell the Lord to buzz off?

Of course the Lord provides opportunity for the lost sheep to come home but some never do and the Lord doesn't not force anybody to serve him.

 

[URwrongAgain]

The weekly Sabbath tells people who you worship and why because the 4th commandment says:

The Sabbath has already been fulfilled by Jesus. To obey and honor the Sabbath
you must be in the Spirit of Christ. Even if you stay in your tent and do nothing
on every Sabbath Day of the week but you are not in the Spirit of Christ, your
obedience and honor is all in vain. For God will not recognize anything outside of the Spirit of Christ.
In fact Jesus stated to the Sabbath keepers such as you:
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

 

[St. SteVen]

@URwrongAgain welcome to the forum.

I'm guessing that the "UR" doesn't stand for Universal Restoration? (hope it does)
But more likely UR stands for "You are"?
As in "You are wrong again." ??? - LOL

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[Big Boy Johnson]

As in "You are wrong again." ??? - LOL

Well you would certainly know about about being wrong again