Keeping the Sabbath tells people Who you Worship

[BarneyFife]

Yet, here we, as a group, are with many people accusing brothers and sisters of error - making ourselves the arbiter of true understanding. I find it interesting that many posts are simply promotion of opinions rather than scriptures. I think I have witnessed the lack of AGAPE between us many times.

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I just don't see that pointing out error (i.e. mistaken assumption?) need necessarily constitute an "accusation."

I've been struggling greatly of late with someone who is illustrating this point perfectly.

The individual will not acknowledge the difference between "disagreement with doctrine" and mocking/ad hominem/insult/trolling, etc.

I have friends here with whom I disagree about a great many things.

But the extent to which an individual will behave here as they would if meeting with others face to face will determine the success of forum interaction.

Although, I suppose it's possible that some of the worst offenders would act no differently in a live environment. A select few exhibit no consideration for others whatsoever, as if they were unaware that God and recording angels are watching. Such is the hazard of virtually anonymous online communication.
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[Big Boy Johnson]

I think I have witnessed the lack of AGAPE between us many times.

That begs the question... do we love the Lord (and His Word) first, and people second?

Or, do we do what most folks do which is love people first and the Lord is secondary as they desire to please people first.

We see Jesus saying if we love brethren or even family more than Him, we cannot be His disciple and are not worthy of Him.

Luke 14:26
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Matthew 10:37
Matthew 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

Most seem to think love would never bring correction when it's needed.

 

[thelord's_pearl]

That begs the question... do we love the Lord (and His Word) first, and people second?

Or, do we do what most folks do which is love people first and the Lord is secondary as they desire to please people first.

We see Jesus saying if we love brethren or even family more than Him, we cannot be His disciple and are not worthy of Him.

Luke 14:26
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Matthew 10:37
Matthew 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

Most seem to think love would never bring correction when it's needed.

if we delve more into these scriptures, I believe it means that we should follow His righteousness as loving Him first so anyone or anything else comes second.

 

[BarneyFife]

I can certainly argue with those that require
me to "consider one day more sacred than another".

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Frankly, I don't understand the use of this reference, at least, as it is commonly done.

I don't know how I would go about requiring someone to "consider one day more sacred than another."

I know how to close a browser tab, turn off a device, etc.

If someone is saying something I don't want to hear, I can shut it off very quickly unless they break down my door with considerable firepower onboard.

I used to have sit-down meetings with Christians of other beliefs at my home. What would usually happen is that someone would visit one of our seminars or evangelistic crusades and bring their pastor to meet with us. When we reached an impasse, they would politely excuse themselves. Based on what happened at these meetings, the visiting individual would make a decision either for or against the observation of the 4th commandment. Sometimes, pastors themselves would make surprising decisions, often losing their jobs—other times, convincing most of their congregations on the issue.

Every time I get to the point where someone here starts to get to me, I have a choice to make: Turn it on or off.
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[BarneyFife]

Big Boy Johnson said:

We see Jesus saying if we love brethren or even family more than Him, we cannot be His disciple and are not worthy of Him.

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You see Jesus saying whatever you want to see Him saying and simply ignore the rest.

He also said this:

Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. (John 15:13)

And this:

Matthew 22
37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38This is the first and great commandment. 39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

And this:

Exodus 20
8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

And this:

For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” (Galatians 5:14)

Don't think God is our neighbor?

"And let them make Me a sanctuary, that I may dwell among them."

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

“Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”

It is impossible to truly love God without loving your neighbor, just as it is impossible to truly love your neighbor without loving God. Love is not divided, because the source of all true love is God, for "God is love."


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[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
I can certainly argue with those that require
me to "consider one day more sacred than another".

Frankly, I don't understand the use of this reference, at least, as it is commonly done. ... I used to have sit-down meetings with Christians of other beliefs at my home. What would usually happen is that someone would visit one of our seminars or evangelistic crusades and bring their pastor to meet with us. When we reached an impasse, they would politely excuse themselves. Based on what happened at these meetings, the visiting individual would make a decision either for or against the observation of the 4th commandment. Sometimes, pastors themselves would make surprising decisions, often losing their jobs—other times, convincing most of their congregations on the issue.

Okay, thanks.
You are correct. No one is holding a gun to my head.
Allow me to explain my experience, as you have
so appropriately explained yours. Thanks.

Conflict on this subject is difficult to avoid. IMHO
Once a person identifies a day as "God's Holy Day set apart since creation." (part A),
a parenthetical accusation accompanies it, which states, "If you do not observe the
seventh day Sabbath of the 4th Commandment, you are in violation of God's eternal law." (part B)
This seems unavoidable to me. To state part A is to infer part B.
And if part A is NEVER stated then part B is not inferred.

I have met, and even shared a Sabbath evening meal with Messianic Christians.
They were very welcoming and never stated part A. (nor inferred part B)
It was educational and I appreciated it. My wife and I had an interest
but we did not continue in that direction.

Years later I met others that were emphatic about part A, thus inferring AND
even declaring quite plainly part B. They had some very nasty names for those who
would dare challenge them on this. I'll list them if anyone wants to know.

Obviously, they felt the need to separate themselves from me.
They would NOT acknowledge me as a fellow believer.
I haven't had that problem with you. Thank you.

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[BarneyFife]

Conflict on this subject is difficult to avoid. IMHO

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The "not peace, but a sword" thing is sometimes unavoidable, to be sure.
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Once a person identifies a day as "God's Holy Day set apart since creation." (part A),
a parenthetical accusation accompanies it, which states, "If you do not observe the
seventh day Sabbath of the 4th Commandment, you are in violation of God's eternal law." (part B)

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Inevitable, no doubt, but the devil is the accuser of the brethren. The Holy Spirit guides into all truth and imparts only a healthy and minimally shameful kind of guilt.
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I have met, and even shared a Sabbath evening meal with Messianic Christians.
They were very welcoming and never stated part A. (nor inferred part B)
It was educational and I appreciated it.

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I am so glad you had that experience. I hope it was the kind of "a little slice of Heaven" that I perceive the Sabbath to be.
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Years later I met others that were emphatic about part A, thus inferring AND
even declaring quite plainly part B. They had some very nasty names for those who
would dare challenge them on this. I'll list them if anyone wants to know.

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These folks undoubtedly knew not what manner of spirit they were of (link).
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Obviously, they felt the need to separate themselves from me.

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And I'm sure you were better off for that.
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They would NOT acknowledge me as a fellow believer.
I haven't had that problem with you.

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And, by the grace of God, you're not likely to, either.
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Thank you.

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The least I could do, SS
We are debtors to those to whom we seek to do good for Christ's sake (link).
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[St. SteVen]

Thanks for your posts @BarneyFife

The title and OP of this topic reflects the problem I am pointing to.
The title is part A and the parenthetical inference is part B

Keeping the Sabbath tells people Who you Worship​

The inferred part B would state, "If you aren't keeping the Sabbath,
it isn't the God of the Bible that you are worshiping." Meaning what exactly?

The topic starter can correct me if I am misunderstanding. But... it seems fairly obvious.

/ cc: @Hobie

 

[St. SteVen]

New topic.

Source or Resource? - Understanding the difference

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[BarneyFife]

Thanks for your posts @BarneyFife

The title and OP of this topic reflects the problem I am pointing to.
The title is part A and the parenthetical inference is part B

Keeping the Sabbath tells people Who you Worship​

The inferred part B would state, "If you aren't keeping the Sabbath,
it isn't the God of the Bible that you are worshiping." Meaning what exactly?

The topic starter can correct me if I am misunderstanding. But... it seems fairly obvious.

/ cc: @Hobie

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Forgive me for interloping, SS, but I've worshipped God ignorant of things I should have known about Him for my entire life—not the least of which may yet prove to be your understanding of UR.

I still do—to this day.

I think it is better than not worshipping Him at all, especially in light of Acts 17:30 (link).

Don't you?

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[St. SteVen]

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Forgive me for interloping, SS, but I've worshipped God ignorant of things I should have known about Him for my entire life—not the least of which may yet prove to be your understanding of UR.

I still do—to this day.

I think it is better than not worshipping Him at all, especially in light of Acts 17:30 (link).

Don't you?

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Well of course.
Hopefully you didn't misunderstand me.

I think we share a similar attitude about these things. ???
We are both here to inform others of what we believe.
As long as they are willing to take the time to understand, then we are satisfied.

I do not label someone as an Infernalist (or worse) if they don't accept what I say about UR.
And I haven't seen you do any labeling of others that don't share your beliefs either.

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[BarneyFife]

Hopefully you didn't misunderstand me.

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Not at all, SS
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[Big Boy Johnson]

if we delve more into these scriptures, I believe it means that we should follow His righteousness as loving Him first so anyone or anything else comes second.

Exactly... and that includes religious organizations such as the SDA

 

[Hobie]

Exactly... and that includes religious organizations such as the SDA

But we are coming to the end as everyone can see BB, and we must choose like the people at Mount Carmel what is from God. There can be no more sitting on the sidelines or benches, it is who do we follow, one choice leads to life and the other to death. We have to choose between God's truth or the Devils deception and then Christ will judge..

There will be no do overs or redo, the choice is yours...

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

There will be no do overs or redo, the choice is yours...

So, if I choose not to have church in Saturday... I'm going to burn in hell, is that it?

 

[Hobie]

So, if I choose not to have church in Saturday... I'm going to burn in hell, is that it? View attachment 41779

Well, who are we following, the one who lies or who gives us the truth..

We have to choose BB, each and everyone of us..

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Well, who are we following, the one who lies or who gives us the truth..

The TRUTH... according to God's Word... is that Jesus Christ took the old covenant away and established the New Covenant

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. (God said He would make a New Covenant - see Jeremiah 31:31-34)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath Jesus obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also Jesus is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

And with the changing of the priesthood, God’s Word tells us there is also a change of the law.

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

God’s people are no longer living under the Law of Moses. Now God’s people are living under the Law of Christ (also called the law of liberty, law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus – see Galatians 6:2, 1 Corinthians 9:21, James 2:12, James 1:25, Romans 8:2)

The Law of Christ contains NO command or requirement to keep Saturday sabbath because God has something far better for His people under the New Covenant. Saturday sabbath (and the entire Law of Moses) has been made obsolete by the New Covenant and is of no benefit to those trying to continue in any part of the Law of Moses! (Those claiming Saturday sabbath is still required cannot prove this from the New Testament of the Bible because it’s simply not there and does not teach this) .

Why do the Saturday peoples reject God's New Covenant... just like the Jews reject God's New Covenant?

You all are still clinging to the law of moses rather then the Law of Christ as found in the New Covenant.

 

[Illuminator]

SDA thinks all Christians who worship on Sunday will one day conspire with the state to pass laws making Sabbatarianism illegal. Everybody else is a whore and/or daughters of the whore but not them. There are plenty of reasons why they target the Catholic Church to the extreme they do. I don't damn them or any body else, but there is nothing in current history, since The Great Controversy was published 160+ years ago, to support a prophecy that is intrinsically disordered. Calling your Mother a whore is the worst of universal insults. My Church says the SDA are not a cult, but a sect, and I think they would agree with at least that much.

Seventh-day Adventism​

I prefer to worship on Saturday at the 5:00 PM Mass, similar to the ancient Jewish tradition. That fulfills my Sunday obligation so I sleep in. You are at war with ghosts of your own creation.

Sunday Worship - Scripture Catholic

Scripture Isaiah 1:13 – God begins to reveal His displeasure with the Sabbath. Matt. 28:1; Mark 16:2,9; John 20:1,19- the Gospel writers purposely reveal Jesus’ resurrection and appearances were on Sunday. This is because Sunday had now become the most important day in the life of the Church...

www.scripturecatholic.com

If Saturday Sabbath keeping is more important than the Resurrection, then you should correct Jesus for rising on the wrong day.

 

[Hobie]

The TRUTH... according to God's Word... is that Jesus Christ took the old covenant away and established the New Covenant

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. (God said He would make a New Covenant - see Jeremiah 31:31-34)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath Jesus obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also Jesus is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

And with the changing of the priesthood, God’s Word tells us there is also a change of the law.

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

God’s people are no longer living under the Law of Moses. Now God’s people are living under the Law of Christ (also called the law of liberty, law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus – see Galatians 6:2, 1 Corinthians 9:21, James 2:12, James 1:25, Romans 8:2)

The Law of Christ contains NO command or requirement to keep Saturday sabbath because God has something far better for His people under the New Covenant. Saturday sabbath (and the entire Law of Moses) has been made obsolete by the New Covenant and is of no benefit to those trying to continue in any part of the Law of Moses! (Those claiming Saturday sabbath is still required cannot prove this from the New Testament of the Bible because it’s simply not there and does not teach this) .

Why do the Saturday peoples reject God's New Covenant... just like the Jews reject God's New Covenant?

You all are still clinging to the law of moses rather then the Law of Christ as found in the New Covenant.

Because the New and the Old Covenant are the same, He would write the law in our hearts and mind, and all know that if you love Him you would keep His Commandments.

So making the choice does not go away, we have the truth from God, or the lie from the apostate church. We have to choose and let God be true, nothing of what we heard from man withstanding...

 

[Illuminator]

Because the New and the Old Covenant are the same, He would write the law in our hearts and mind, and all know that if you love Him you would keep His Commandments.

So making the choice does not go away, we have the truth from God, or the lie from the apostate church. We have to choose and let God be true, nothing of what we heard from man withstanding...

The apostate church were

The Circumcisers (1st Century)​

Gnosticism (1st and 2nd Centuries)​

Montanism (Late 2nd Century)​

Sabellianism (Early 3rd Century)​

Arianism (4th Century)​

Pelagianism (5th Century)​

Semi-Pelagianism (5th Century)​

Nestorianism (5th Century)​

Monophysitism (5th Century)​

Catharism (11th Century)​

All long ago refuted by councils you reject. Please clarify "apostate".