JOHN 10:15-16 WHO ARE THE SHEEP NOT OF THIS FOLD?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Doug

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2018
3,065
499
83
south
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
[Jhn 10:15-16 KJV] 15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd.

Jesus laid down his life for the sheep, The sheep are his people, Israel.

Jesus says he has other sheep not of this fold. Who are the sheep not of this fold? Who is the fold Jesus speaks of?

The most common answer is Gentiles.

I think there is a better answer.

[Psa 78:52 KJV] 52 But made his own people to go forth like sheep, and guided them in the wilderness like a flock.

[Isa 40:11 KJV] 11 He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry [them] in his bosom, [and] shall gently lead those that are with young.

The verses above show that Israel are called sheep and Jesus is their shepherd.

[Jer 23:3 KJV] 3 And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.

[Mic 2:12 KJV] 12 I will surely assemble, O Jacob, all of thee; I will surely gather the remnant of Israel; I will put them together as the sheep of Bozrah, as the flock in the midst of their fold: they shall make great noise by reason of [the multitude of] men.

[Jer 31:10 KJV] 10 Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations, and declare [it] in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd [doth] his flock.

[Eze 34:12 KJV] 12 As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep [that are] scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.

The above verses say that the sheep are scattered. They were scattered into other countries outside of Israel. These are the sheep Jesus is talking about as being not of the fold and that he will bring in John 10:16. The sheep in the fold in Israel will be united with the sheep that have been scattered to make one fold with Jesus their shepherd.

Gentiles are never called sheep.

[Act 20:28-29 KJV] 28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. 29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

One could say that Paul calls the church a flock; Paul was sent to the Gentiles, so therefore Gentiles would also be sheep.

This is the only place where Paul uses this term; Paul never calls the body of Christ sheep.

Paul was speaking to elders of the church. Paul told them to take heed unto yourselves, the elders, and to all the flock. Yourselves and the flock are two separate groups. There was still the little flock, the remnant of Israel at that time which helped in Paul's ministry (Acts 9:26-27). The elders were to take heed of wolves who would not spare the flock (Matthew 7:15 10:16) which may be a warning for the remnant facing the tribulation in the future. The remnant would have to beware of false brethren and false prophets.

[Act 20:30 KJV] 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

Note the word also. That means something is being said of them as well as someone else.

Once again Paul is addressing "your own selves" as opposed to the "flock" and saying that of them also there shall arise perverse men just as is the case for the flock of believing Israel
 
Last edited:

Verily

Well-Known Member
Nov 9, 2024
1,638
1,029
113
Sion the heavenly city
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Jesus is the door of the sheep correct?

John 10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

Who would you understand to be the shepherd of the sheep here?

John 10:2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

Because it says,

John 10:3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

Because To him the porter openeth

Acts 16:14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.

And the sheep hear his voice

And likewise it also shows this

The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth. Acts 22:14

Wouldnt these be feeding the sheep?

John 21:16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

Which would be to feed the church of God

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, OVER the which the Holy Ghost hath made YOU overseers, TO FEED the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

These feed the sheep, or as those feeding the sheep with knowledge and understanding

There are wolves that "enter in"

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves ENTER IN among you, not sparing the flock.

And those "of your own selves" that start becoming pervers

Acts 20:30 Also OF YOUR OWN SELVES shall men ARISE, speaking perverse things, TO DRAW AWAY disciples after them.

And the the apostles being basically on the outside trying to get in

3 John 1:9 I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, RECEIVETH NOT US.

But Jesus (who is the good shepherd also said he was the door) and also said,

John 10:2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

Because here

John 10:3 To him the porter openeth;

Whats the difference that you are drawing between these?
 
  • Love
Reactions: amigo de christo

Doug

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2018
3,065
499
83
south
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, OVER the which the Holy Ghost hath made YOU overseers, TO FEED the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Paul was speaking to elders of the church. Paul told them to take heed unto yourselves, the elders, and to all the flock. Yourselves and the flock are two separate groups. There was still the little flock, the remnant of Israel at that time which helped in Paul's ministry (Acts 9:26-27). The elders were to take heed of wolves who would not spare the flock (Matthew 7:15 10:16) which may be a warning for the remnant facing the tribulation in the future. The remnant would have to beware of false brethren and false prophets.
 

Verily

Well-Known Member
Nov 9, 2024
1,638
1,029
113
Sion the heavenly city
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Christ Jesus
You had to separate what I asked and replied separately

How about I ask this way, when Jesus said this

John 10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again,
Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

But said this also concerning he that entereth in by the door

John 10:2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

Since Jesus tells us

John 10:3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
 

Verily

Well-Known Member
Nov 9, 2024
1,638
1,029
113
Sion the heavenly city
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Paul was speaking to elders of the church. Paul told them to take heed unto yourselves, the elders, and to all the flock. Yourselves and the flock are two separate groups. There was still the little flock, the remnant of Israel at that time which helped in Paul's ministry (Acts 9:26-27). The elders were to take heed of wolves who would not spare the flock (Matthew 7:15 10:16) which may be a warning for the remnant facing the tribulation in the future. The remnant would have to beware of false brethren and false prophets.

How is that any different from him saying the same here

1Titus 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

Thyself and them that hear thee are two separate persons, so what?
 

IronMaiden

Well-Known Member
Nov 4, 2024
413
513
93
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
[Jhn 10:15-16 KJV] 15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd.

Jesus laid down his life for the sheep, The sheep are his people, Israel.

Jesus says he has other sheep not of this fold. Who are the sheep not of this fold? Who is the fold Jesus speaks of?

The most common answer is Gentiles.

I think there is a better answer.

[Psa 78:52 KJV] 52 But made his own people to go forth like sheep, and guided them in the wilderness like a flock.

[Isa 40:11 KJV] 11 He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry [them] in his bosom, [and] shall gently lead those that are with young.

The verses above show that Israel are called sheep and Jesus is their shepherd.

[Jer 23:3 KJV] 3 And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.

[Mic 2:12 KJV] 12 I will surely assemble, O Jacob, all of thee; I will surely gather the remnant of Israel; I will put them together as the sheep of Bozrah, as the flock in the midst of their fold: they shall make great noise by reason of [the multitude of] men.

[Jer 31:10 KJV] 10 Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations, and declare [it] in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd [doth] his flock.

[Eze 34:12 KJV] 12 As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep [that are] scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.

The above verses say that the sheep are scattered. These are the sheep Jesus is talking about as being not of the fold and that he will bring in John 10:16. The sheep in the fold in Israel will be united with the sheep that have been scattered to make one fold with Jesus their shepherd.

Gentiles are never called sheep.

[Act 20:28-29 KJV] 28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. 29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

One could say that Paul calls the church a flock; Paul was sent to the Gentiles, so therefore Gentiles would also be sheep.

This is the only place where Paul uses this term; Paul never calls the body of Christ sheep.

Paul was speaking to elders of the church. Paul told them to take heed unto yourselves, the elders, and to all the flock. Yourselves and the flock are two separate groups. There was still the little flock, the remnant of Israel at that time which helped in Paul's ministry (Acts 9:26-27). The elders were to take heed of wolves who would not spare the flock (Matthew 7:15 10:16) which may be a warning for the remnant facing the tribulation in the future. The remnant would have to beware of false brethren and false prophets.
Could the other fold be referring to the lost sheep?—Those who were scattered?
 

Doug

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2018
3,065
499
83
south
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You had to separate what I asked and replied separately

How about I ask this way, when Jesus said this

John 10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again,
Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

But said this also concerning he that entereth in by the door

John 10:2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

Since Jesus tells us

John 10:3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
sorry cant follow you
 

Doug

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2018
3,065
499
83
south
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Could the other fold be referring to the lost sheep?—Those who were scattered?
This from the post

The above verses say that the sheep are scattered. These are the sheep Jesus is talking about as being not of the fold and that he will bring in John 10:16. The sheep in the fold in Israel will be united with the sheep that have been scattered to make one fold with Jesus their shepherd.

They arent the lost sheep which is unsaved Israel but they are the scattered sheep the scattered Jews
 

Verily

Well-Known Member
Nov 9, 2024
1,638
1,029
113
Sion the heavenly city
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The flock of God are those who belong to God, who hear Gods words, Jesus said

John 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not,
because ye are not of God.

The apostle John said lkewise

1 John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us.
Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Jesus saith unto Simon, Feed my lambs. Likewise he says the same

1 Peter 5:2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof,
not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind
 

Doug

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2018
3,065
499
83
south
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The flock of God are those who belong to God, who hear Gods words, Jesus said

John 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not,
because ye are not of God.

The apostle John said lkewise

1 John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us.
Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Jesus saith unto Simon, Feed my lambs. Likewise he says the same

1 Peter 5:2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof,
not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind
The flock is Israel
 

amigo de christo

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2020
29,847
50,601
113
53
San angelo
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Jesus is the door of the sheep correct?

John 10:7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

Who would you understand to be the shepherd of the sheep here?

John 10:2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

Because it says,

John 10:3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

Because To him the porter openeth

Acts 16:14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.

And the sheep hear his voice

And likewise it also shows this

The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth. Acts 22:14

Wouldnt these be feeding the sheep?

John 21:16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

Which would be to feed the church of God

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, OVER the which the Holy Ghost hath made YOU overseers, TO FEED the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

These feed the sheep, or as those feeding the sheep with knowledge and understanding

There are wolves that "enter in"

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves ENTER IN among you, not sparing the flock.

And those "of your own selves" that start becoming pervers

Acts 20:30 Also OF YOUR OWN SELVES shall men ARISE, speaking perverse things, TO DRAW AWAY disciples after them.

And the the apostles being basically on the outside trying to get in

3 John 1:9 I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, RECEIVETH NOT US.

But Jesus (who is the good shepherd also said he was the door) and also said,

John 10:2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

Because here

John 10:3 To him the porter openeth;

Whats the difference that you are drawing between these?
THERE is NO difference . The fold of two that is one , is and consists ONLY
and i mean ONLY of the jews and gentiles who BELIEVED IN and that means BELEIVED JESUS the CHRIST .
THE FOLD consists ONLY and i do mean ONLY of those ,whether jew or gentile , WHO ACTUALLY BELIEVED GOD .
and now a word
ONE cannot BELIEVE GOD if they believe not CHRIST JESUS . and that too is a fact . many will wail on the day of the LORD
and the many i speak of are those who BELIEVED NOT JESUS THE CHRIST , whether they were born jew or gentile .
Now that will highly anger folks , but TRUTH IS TRUTH and THUS TRUTH I SPEAK
 
  • Like
Reactions: Marvelloustime

amigo de christo

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2020
29,847
50,601
113
53
San angelo
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Those sheep were the Gentiles. Jesus sent Peter to them.
Very good friend . what most dont realize is
that while peter in large was sent to the jew
and later it was determined paul to the gentile .
FRIEND peter preached the same gospel to the gentile house of cornelious as he did to the jew
as did paul to the jew .
 
  • Like
Reactions: Marvelloustime

Verily

Well-Known Member
Nov 9, 2024
1,638
1,029
113
Sion the heavenly city
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Those sheep were the Gentiles. Jesus sent Peter to them.

Yes, and the Father says to the Son in the Psalms

Psalm 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

The heathen which is all nations will be gathered before him also

John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: an
d he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
 

pepper

Well-Known Member
Dec 22, 2024
817
658
93
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yes, and the Father says to the Son in the Psalms

Psalm 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

The heathen which is all nations will be gathered before him also

John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: an
d he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
And yet Matt.25 contradictsJohn 10.
 

Verily

Well-Known Member
Nov 9, 2024
1,638
1,029
113
Sion the heavenly city
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
THERE is NO difference . The fold of two that is one , is and consists ONLY
and i mean ONLY of the jews and gentiles who BELIEVED IN and that means BELEIVED JESUS the CHRIST .
THE FOLD consists ONLY and i do mean ONLY of those ,whether jew or gentile , WHO ACTUALLY BELIEVED GOD .
and now a word
ONE cannot BELIEVE GOD if they believe not CHRIST JESUS . and that too is a fact . many will wail on the day of the LORD
and the many i speak of are those who BELIEVED NOT JESUS THE CHRIST , whether they were born jew or gentile .
Now that will highly anger folks , but TRUTH IS TRUTH and THUS TRUTH I SPEAK
Exactly, it those who believe have been sealed with the Holy Spirit

Ephes 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Likewise does it say if any man have not the Spirit he is none of his

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
 
  • Love
Reactions: amigo de christo