John 1:1 - Jesus is the Father or he's not the one true God?

[BeyondET]

Aside from the scriptures, the gibberish was the important part BET.....but if your faith is blind shouldn't you be wearing sunglasses?

The astral projectiles the informative yet condescending tactics is something I've seen many times on a few Christian sites your not unique in that respect AJ.

 

[Waiting on him]

Is that your response to everything that's put to you? Nothing scares the "hell" out of us because we don't believe in it....
You accuse everyone of being brainwashed by the Kingdom Hall.....but you know what.....?

We all know that you secretly admire JW's and wish that you could openly go to the Kingdom Hall to take in the wonderful knowledge that is shared there....but it wouldn't look good to the others.......we get it....come out of the closet Jack....break the shackles and free your mind of that nasty brainwashing from Christendom......there is no hell.....and Jesus isn't God...you know that's true.

There’s a grave indeed, but it no longer has any power.

 

[GEN2REV]

Everything except perhaps the deity of Christ.....I do not accept that Jesus is Almighty God incarnate. He prayed to his Father in heaven and God sent angels to minister to him on the night of his arrest. If God was on earth...who was in heaven? To Israel, Yahweh was ONE, not two or three.

If the Almighty is immortal and cannot die...how can he become a mortal who did?
God cannot change...he is what he has always been.
Yahweh did not need to become a human to rescue the human race....all he needed to do was send his most trust son to fulfill that mission, which he willingly did. Jesus as "the last Adam" undid what the first Adam did to all his children.

Calling Jesus "theos" in no way makes him his Father's equal....that would violate the First Commandment.
"Theos" in Greek has a different meaning to that which Christendom gives it.

I respect your opinion and am a bit weary of the debate, but I will just say that all of that throws out Isaiah 9:6. We have prophecy for a very important reason, for a Divine reason. It carries much weight and should not be so neglected and tossed aside as it is by so many today.

Cannot God be in all places at once? Is He not omnipresent?

If He was on the earth in a flesh form (which He was), can He not also be outside of time and space in the eternal dimension where He exists, and has existed, eternally?

If God put His Spirit into Mary's human egg, the child that was born could not be human. It had no human father.

In Truth, it's disappointing to me that so many ignore the endless evidence of Jesus' Deity. It is absolutely fascinating and uplifts one's Faith in God to no end. Dividing God into three, as well as claiming He did not come in the flesh, robs God Almighty of all the glory due to Him for one of His greatest wonders, and one of His most selfless acts.

It is sheer and utter blasphemy.

 

[Rich R]

You're doing the JW twist! God is our Savior! Nobody else.
Jude 1
25 To God our Savior, Who alone is wise, Be glory and majesty, Dominion and power, Both now and forever. Amen.

Jesus is God!

No JW. I just believe Jesus when he said the only God was his Father (John 17:3). Paul said the same thing in 1 Cor 8:6. Neither Jesus nor Paul have anything to do with JW.

Maybe figure out what Jude 1:25 was actually saying. If it said God was the only savior, then there would be a huge contradiction. You'd have to explain how John 17:3 and 1 Cor 8:6 says the son is also God. That'd be pretty hard in light of Jesus' and Paul's simple statements.

 

[GEN2REV]

No JW. I just believe Jesus when he said the only God was his Father (John 17:3). Paul said the same thing in 1 Cor 8:6. Neither Jesus nor Paul have anything to do with JW.

Maybe figure out what Jude 1:25 was actually saying. If it said God was the only savior, then there would be a huge contradiction. You'd have to explain how John 17:3 and 1 Cor 8:6 says the son is also God. That'd be pretty hard in light of Jesus' and Paul's simple statements.

Actually it's very simple and it's been explained to you many times here, by many people.

Both verses have been explained with Scripture and you continue to claim there is no explanation for them.

You are just like your father who said in the garden "Is that what God REALLLLY said, though?"

The Bible says what it says. It's up to you to figure out how that's possible, not to claim to everyone that it doesn't actually mean what it says.

"The only wise God our Savior" actually means The only wise God our Savior Jesus Christ.

Just exactly as it is stated in Scripture.

 

[Wrangler]

John's purpose for nearly the last 2 millennia has been to make plain that The Word is Jesus Christ.

GEN, this is NOT what John says his purpose is. Sad that your idolatry supersedes the explicit word of God.


But these miracles have been written so that you will believe that Yeshua is the Messiah, the Son of God, and so that you will have life by believing in him.
John 20:31 NOG

 

[Jack]

Is that your response to everything that's put to you? Nothing scares the "hell" out of us because we don't believe in it....

Belief in Hell is not required for eternal residency therein.

You accuse everyone of being brainwashed by the Kingdom Hall.....but you know what.....?

We all know that you secretly admire JW's and wish that you could openly go to the Kingdom Hall to take in the wonderful knowledge that is shared there....but it wouldn't look good to the others.......we get it....

Satanic LIES!

come out of the closet Jack....break the shackles and free your mind of that nasty brainwashing from Christendom......

There ya go folks! That's how JW's feel about "Christenedom".

there is no hell.....and Jesus isn't God...you know that's true.

Then you'd better have an emergency meeting at Kingdom Hall to edit YOUR NWT. It says you're wrong.

 

[Jack]

No JW. I just believe Jesus when he said the only God was his Father (John 17:3). Paul said the same thing in 1 Cor 8:6. Neither Jesus nor Paul have anything to do with JW.

Maybe figure out what Jude 1:25 was actually saying. If it said God was the only savior, then there would be a huge contradiction. You'd have to explain how John 17:3 and 1 Cor 8:6 says the son is also God. That'd be pretty hard in light of Jesus' and Paul's simple statements.

If God isn't your Savior you don't have a Savior.
Titus 1
3 but has in due time manifested His word through preaching, which was
committed to me according to the commandment of God our Savior;

Jesus is God my Savior!

 

[Rich R]

Actually it's very simple and it's been explained to you many times here, by many people.

Both verses have been explained with Scripture and you continue to claim there is no explanation for them.

Nobody has directly addressed John 17:30 nor 1 Cor 8:6. All I see in return are other verses that supposedly say Jesus is God but actually say no such thing. I've answered to all of them, but folks just like tradition better than truth.

You are just like your father who said in the garden "Is that what God REALLLLY said, though?"

Well, all I did was quote a couple of verses that God authored. I think He knows exactly what He said and meant.

The Bible says what it says. It's up to you to figure out how that's possible, not to claim to everyone that it doesn't actually mean what it says.

True enough. Then you shouldn't have any problem explaining how Jesus, the son, can be God when Paul said only the Father is God.

"The only wise God our Savior" actually means The only wise God our Savior Jesus Christ.

Just exactly as it is stated in Scripture.

Joshua, the son of Nun, was a savior. In fact his name means, "Yahweh Saves." If you look you will find others who were called saviors. But if that verse actually says Jesus is God, what are you going do to with 1 Cor 8:6? Corinthians is quite clear in saying only the Father is God. On the other hand, there are no such clear cut declarations that say Jesus is God. It's a "derived" doctrine from the scriptures. It's not clearly stated anywhere. There are about 6 verses that plainly declare Jesus is a man. There are none that so plainly declares him to be God.

Sorry, but I'm not going to figure out how unclear verses can accord with clear verses. I prefer the other way around. When I do that the Bible actually makes sense. I know trinitarians don't care if it makes sense or not ("take it by faith..."), but I do.

 

[Rich R]

If God isn't your Savior you don't have a Savior.
Titus 1
3 but has in due time manifested His word through preaching, which was
committed to me according to the commandment of God our Savior;

Jesus is God my Savior!

I find it interesting that trinitarians are quick to tell unitarians they are not saved. I don't recall it going the other way.

Joshua, the son of Nun, was a savior. His name even means, "Yahweh Saves," the same meaning as "Jesus." Is Joshua, the son of Nun, therefore your savior?

 

[Jack]

Nobody has directly addressed John 17:30 nor 1 Cor 8:6. All I see in return are other verses that supposedly say Jesus is God but actually say no such thing. I've answered to all of them, but folks just like tradition better than truth.

Could you quote John 17:30?

1 Corinthians 8
6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.

Thanks for confirming that Jesus is indeed God!

 

[Jack]

I find it interesting that trinitarians are quick to tell unitarians they are not saved. I don't recall it going the other way.

Joshua, the son of Nun, was a savior. His name even means, "Yahweh Saves," the same meaning as "Jesus." Is Joshua, the son of Nun, therefore your savior?

If God isn't your Savior you don't have a Savior.

Titus 3
4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared,

 

[GEN2REV]

GEN, this is NOT what John says his purpose is. Sad that your idolatry supersedes the explicit word of God.

Soul Wrangler, this is what everyone who read, studied and preached the Bible for the last 2,000 years understood John to be saying.

It's only of late that your agenda to deny the Deity of Christ has arisen.

 

[GEN2REV]

Nobody has directly addressed John 17:30 nor 1 Cor 8:6. All I see in return are other verses that supposedly say Jesus is God but actually say no such thing. I've answered to all of them, but folks just like tradition better than truth.


Well, all I did was quote a couple of verses that God authored. I think He knows exactly what He said and meant.


True enough. Then you shouldn't have any problem explaining how Jesus, the son, can be God when Paul said only the Father is God.


Joshua, the son of Nun, was a savior. In fact his name means, "Yahweh Saves." If you look you will find others who were called saviors. But if that verse actually says Jesus is God, what are you going do to with 1 Cor 8:6? Corinthians is quite clear in saying only the Father is God. On the other hand, there are no such clear cut declarations that say Jesus is God. It's a "derived" doctrine from the scriptures. It's not clearly stated anywhere. There are about 6 verses that plainly declare Jesus is a man. There are none that so plainly declares him to be God.

Sorry, but I'm not going to figure out how unclear verses can accord with clear verses. I prefer the other way around. When I do that the Bible actually makes sense. I know trinitarians don't care if it makes sense or not ("take it by faith..."), but I do.

Your kind only does one thing, Rich. That's how you're so easy to spot among all the sincere members here.

You only stand upon single verses, taken completely out of context, and you stand on that verse no matter how many different ways it is explained that you are interpreting it wrong. You even admit you are interpreting it your own way when you say, over and over, "Well if you could just figure out what's REALLY being said there, you'd see it my way." "Ha ha haaaa."

Paul says in 1 Corinthians 8:6 that Jesus made all things. (KJV)

AND in the verses immediately prior, he is speaking of all the many gods in the world besides God Almighty. Just exactly like Jesus is referencing in John 17:3.

So there ya go.

Next.

John 17:8 Jesus came out/forth from God Almighty.

Another verse that blows your theory away.

Stand on that one for a while.

 

[GEN2REV]

If God isn't your Savior you don't have a Savior.

Titus 3
4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared,

Nice.

Haven't read Titus in a while.

Adding that verse to my arsenal.

 

[Rich R]

Your kind only does one thing, Rich. That's how you're so easy to spot among all the sincere members here.

You have no idea wrong you are about my sincerity, so just stop saying that. Very unseeming of you!

You only stand upon single verses, taken completely out of context, and you stand on that verse no matter how many different ways it is explained that you are interpreting it wrong. You even admit you are interpreting it your own way when you say, over and over, "Well if you could just figure out what's REALLY being said there, you'd see it my way." "Ha ha haaaa."

Paul says in 1 Corinthians 8:6 that Jesus made all things. (KJV)

Can't take a joke I guess. I'll keep that in mind and be dead pan serious from now on.

If you care to look at an interlinear, your will see that all things came "from" (Greek ek) God "through" (Greek dia) Jesus.

Think agency. God sent his son, Jesus to be His agent on this earth. Jesus fulfilled that perfectly. He always did, not his own will, but the will of his Father. Of course no big deal if Jesus was God. Being God, of course Jesus would always obey. By making Jesus God you completely minimize his true accomplishment in living a perfect life even though he was tempted with every temptation you've ever faced and probably more. Have you ever been offered leadership of the entire world? Well, that's what the devil offered Jesus.

Your claim the Jesus is God is an insult to the true genius of God in coming up with the plan of redemption for free will people. You think God just forced our redemption, that Jesus was an automaton who had no free will, who was not really tempted like you and I. You make God out to be a liar in so many ways.

AND in the verses immediately prior, he is speaking of all the many gods in the world besides God Almighty. Just exactly like Jesus is referencing in John 17:3.

So there ya go.
"...one God, THE FATHER..."

So what? That doesn't change the fact that only the Father is God. Nor does it make Jesus the Father and therefore God.

Next.

John 17:8 Jesus came out/forth from God Almighty.

Another verse that blows your theory away.

Stand on that one for a while.

Other than Jesus, supposedly God, who or what else do you think came out/forth from themselves? That's a non-sequitur. It renders the meaning of simple words, grammar, and concepts meaningless. Using normal language, one thing comes out of something else, two things involved in every sense of the word "two."

 

[Wrangler]

Soul Wrangler, this is what everyone who read, studied and preached the Bible for the last 2,000 years understood John to be saying.

Appeal to Majority. Explicit purpose of John’s Gospel is to prove Jesus is the son of God - not God incarnate. All the Gospels testify explicitly that Jesus is Gods Anointed, not God incarnate.

 

[tigger 2]

"Son" not "sin"?

 

[GEN2REV]

You have no idea wrong you are about my sincerity, so just stop saying that. Very unseeming of you!


Can't take a joke I guess. I'll keep that in mind and be dead pan serious from now on.

If you care to look at an interlinear, your will see that all things came "from" (Greek ek) God "through" (Greek dia) Jesus.

Think agency. God sent his son, Jesus to be His agent on this earth. Jesus fulfilled that perfectly. He always did, not his own will, but the will of his Father. Of course no big deal if Jesus was God. Being God, of course Jesus would always obey. By making Jesus God you completely minimize his true accomplishment in living a perfect life even though he was tempted with every temptation you've ever faced and probably more. Have you ever been offered leadership of the entire world? Well, that's what the devil offered Jesus.

Your claim the Jesus is God is an insult to the true genius of God in coming up with the plan of redemption for free will people. You think God just forced our redemption, that Jesus was an automaton who had no free will, who was not really tempted like you and I. You make God out to be a liar in so many ways.


So what? That doesn't change the fact that only the Father is God. Nor does it make Jesus the Father and therefore God.


Other than Jesus, supposedly God, who or what else do you think came out/forth from themselves? That's a non-sequitur. It renders the meaning of simple words, grammar, and concepts meaningless. Using normal language, one thing comes out of something else, two things involved in every sense of the word "two."

Yeahh, yeahh, yeahh.

According to you, God spoke interlinear to the Israelites, right?

And Jesus being God is my claim.

You just keep resurrecting that dead horse. I'll make my way back around to beat it again and again.

World without end.

 

[GEN2REV]

Appeal to Majority. Explicit purpose of John’s Gospel is to prove Jesus is the sin of God - not God incarnate.

The sin of God .....

Okay.