Jesus prophesied that Sabbath would be kept by Christians until His return

[Johann]

A big fat lie. Read the context.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:

"your own tradition", the ones the Pharisees invented so they would look holy by giving everything to the temple at the expense of their parents. That's what disturbed Jesus. "your own tradition" violated the commandments of God to honor father or mother, the traditions they invented had nothing to do with the Mishna.

Do some research BEFORE calling me a liar

A big fat lie. Read the context.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:

"your own tradition", the ones the Pharisees invented so they would look holy by giving everything to the temple at the expense of their parents. That's what disturbed Jesus. "your own tradition" violated the commandments of God to honor father or mother, the traditions they invented had nothing to do with the Mishna.

Which ye have delivered: they received it from their ancestors, and delivered it to their disciples; and it is in this way, that all their traditions were delivered:

they say (x), that
"Moses received the law (the oral law) at Sinai, ומסרה, "and delivered" it to Joshua; and Joshua to the elders, and the elders to the prophets; and the prophets to the men of the great synagogue; the last of which was Simeon the just; and Antigonus, a man of Socho, received it from him; and Jose ben Joezer, a man of Tzeredah, and Jose ben Jochanan, a man of Jerusalem, received it from Antigonus; and Joshua ben Perachiah (said to be the master of Jesus Christ), and Nitthai the Arbelite, received it from them; and Judah ben Tabai, and Simeon ben Shetach, received it from them; and Shemaiah and Abtalion received it from them; and from them Hillell and Shammai.''

Who were now the heads of the two grand schools of the Jews; these received, and delivered out these traditions to the Scribes and Pharisees, and they to their disciples:
and many such like things do ye; meaning, that there were many other traditions besides this now mentioned; whereby, instead of preserving the written law, which, they pretended, these were an hedge unto (y), they, in a great many instances, made it void.
(x) Pirke Abot, c. 1. sect. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12. (y) Pirke Abot, c. 1. sect. 1.

"all the books of the prophets, and all the Hagiographa (or holy writings), shall cease in the days of the Messiah, except the volume of Esther; and, lo, that shall be as stable as the Pentateuch, and as the constitutions of the oral law, which shall never cease.''
Matthew 19:18
He saith unto him, which?.... Whether those commandments of a moral, or of a ceremonial kind; whether the commands of the written, or of the oral law; of God, or of the elders, or both; or whether he did not mean some new commandments of his own, which he delivered as a teacher sent from God:
Jesus said; according to the other evangelists, "thou knowest the commandments"; not the true nature, spirituality, and use of them, but the letter and number of them; being trained up from a child by his parents, in the reading them, committing them to memory, and the outward observance of them, particularly those of the second table:
thou shalt do no murder, thou shalt not commit adultery, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not bear false witness. Christ takes no notice of the ceremonial law, nor of the traditions of the elders, only moral precepts; and these only such as refer to the second, and not the first table of the law, which respect duty to the neighbour, and not to God: and this he does, because these commandments were more known, and were in common use; and he chose to instance in these, partly to show, that if men are under obligation to regard these, much more such as concern God more immediately; and partly, to observe, that if men are deficient in their duty to one another, they are much more so in their worship of God; and consequently, eternal life is never to be got and enjoyed by the performance of these things.
Gill

Who enforces the rules of the Torot (written and oral)?

The written תּוֹרָה / Torah (instructions / teachings) is "G-d's little instruction book" on how to live a G-dly life, grow spiritually and become holier. G-d gave seven instructions to...

nojesus4jews.weebly.com

Don't know why I bother....next please

 

[Johann]

a vain attempt to discredit all Oral Tradition.

So you agree there was a "Oral law''?

 

[The Learner]

Who perfectly fulfilled all the law?

"

בס"ד

Catechism For Jewish Children​

By Isaac Leeser.​

Appendix I​ The Ceremonial Law​

1. What is the Ceremonial Law? The duties which the law of God as revealed through Moses demands of us, the Israelites, in particular, as the professors of its religion. 2. Upon what is this Law founded? Upon the history of the Mosaic Religion, and of the people of Israel before and since the promulgation of the Ten Commandments from Sinai. 3. What is the object of the ceremonies? The constant observance of the ceremonies is intended to remind us perpetually of the events upon which they are founded, and to cause their being handed over to our children after us, to the latest generations. "Remember his miracles that He hath done, his wonders and the Judgments of his mouth. O ye seed of Israel, his servants; the children of Jacob, his chosen people. He is the Lord our God; his judgments are in all the earth. Remember ye his covenant for ever; the word which He commanded to a thousand generations. Which He covenanted with Abraham, and likewise his oath unto Isaac. And he confirmed the same to Jacob for a statute, to Israel for an everlasting covenant." Ps. cv. 5-10. 4. Which are the principal events of which the Ceremonial Law is to remind us? The following three: First, The Exodus, or removal, of our forefathers from Egypt. Second, The Divine Revelation, and the promulgation of the Law on Sinai. Third, The destruction of the temple at Jerusalem, and of the kingdom of Israel. 5. What observances are to remind us of the Exodus? First, The Sabbath day, regarded as the sign of the covenant of the manifestation of God's power in Egypt. "And remember that thou were a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the Lord thy God brought thee out thence, through a mighty hand, and by an outstretched arm: therefore the Lord thy God commanded thee to keep the Sabbath day." Deut. v. 15. ...​ 18. How is the Day of Atonement to be observed? On the tenth day of the seventh month is the great day of humiliation and prayer before the Lord. During the whole of its continuance, from sunset of the ninth till after the stars have appeared on the tenth, we shall abstain from food and drink, and all earthly enjoyments; and perform no manner of labor, just as on the weekly Sabbath. We shall seriously think over our past conduct, and offer up to God a contrite spirit for our manifold transgressions; if we have offended our neighbor we should satisfy him, before we ask forgiveness of the Lord; and it is for such repentance that we are promised a remission of sin, and an atonement for our iniquities." Catechism For Jewish Children: The Ceremonial Law Jewish-American History on the Web is an online archive of original documents, journals, books and literature on the subject of Jews in the Civil War. www.jewish-history.com

 

[The Learner]

oh I am not keeping up

 

[Johann]

oh I am not keeping up

Don't worry, there is much to learn, and so little time.
You are doing good.
J.

 

[Johann]

oh I am not keeping up

I appreciate you going to the Jewish archive Learner.
My question was, Who fulfilled the Torah/mitzvot/law and yield perfect obedience to it?

 

[Johann]

"

בס"ד

Catechism For Jewish Children​

By Isaac Leeser.​

Appendix I​ The Ceremonial Law​

1. What is the Ceremonial Law? The duties which the law of God as revealed through Moses demands of us, the Israelites, in particular, as the professors of its religion. 2. Upon what is this Law founded? Upon the history of the Mosaic Religion, and of the people of Israel before and since the promulgation of the Ten Commandments from Sinai. 3. What is the object of the ceremonies? The constant observance of the ceremonies is intended to remind us perpetually of the events upon which they are founded, and to cause their being handed over to our children after us, to the latest generations. "Remember his miracles that He hath done, his wonders and the Judgments of his mouth. O ye seed of Israel, his servants; the children of Jacob, his chosen people. He is the Lord our God; his judgments are in all the earth. Remember ye his covenant for ever; the word which He commanded to a thousand generations. Which He covenanted with Abraham, and likewise his oath unto Isaac. And he confirmed the same to Jacob for a statute, to Israel for an everlasting covenant." Ps. cv. 5-10. 4. Which are the principal events of which the Ceremonial Law is to remind us? The following three: First, The Exodus, or removal, of our forefathers from Egypt. Second, The Divine Revelation, and the promulgation of the Law on Sinai. Third, The destruction of the temple at Jerusalem, and of the kingdom of Israel. 5. What observances are to remind us of the Exodus? First, The Sabbath day, regarded as the sign of the covenant of the manifestation of God's power in Egypt. "And remember that thou were a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the Lord thy God brought thee out thence, through a mighty hand, and by an outstretched arm: therefore the Lord thy God commanded thee to keep the Sabbath day." Deut. v. 15. ...​ 18. How is the Day of Atonement to be observed? On the tenth day of the seventh month is the great day of humiliation and prayer before the Lord. During the whole of its continuance, from sunset of the ninth till after the stars have appeared on the tenth, we shall abstain from food and drink, and all earthly enjoyments; and perform no manner of labor, just as on the weekly Sabbath. We shall seriously think over our past conduct, and offer up to God a contrite spirit for our manifold transgressions; if we have offended our neighbor we should satisfy him, before we ask forgiveness of the Lord; and it is for such repentance that we are promised a remission of sin, and an atonement for our iniquities." Catechism For Jewish Children: The Ceremonial Law Jewish-American History on the Web is an online archive of original documents, journals, books and literature on the subject of Jews in the Civil War. www.jewish-history.com

Question.
Is there a distinction between the Mosaic law and the Ten D'var/Words of YHVH?

 

[Illuminator]

Do some research BEFORE calling me a liar

Which ye have delivered: they received it from their ancestors, and delivered it to their disciples; and it is in this way, that all their traditions were delivered:

What part of "your own traditions" don't you understand?

 

[Johann]

What part of "your own traditions" don't you understand?

You have already made me out to be a liar, so what part don't you understand?

 

[The Learner]

I appreciate you going to the Jewish archive Learner.
My question was, Who fulfilled the Torah/mitzvot/law and yield perfect obedience to it?

No one that I know of. In Torah there are around 613 laws. Jesus never sinned.

 

[The Learner]

Question.
Is there a distinction between the Mosaic law and the Ten D'var/Words of YHVH?

The Sabbath Command is Cermonial in nature. Others are Moral.

 

[The Learner]

bump

 

[Illuminator]

So you agree there was a "Oral law''?

No, there are valid oral traditions, in BOTH testaments. There is no such thing as "oral law".

You have already made me out to be a liar, so what part don't you understand?

No, I did not. Your abuse of Mark 7:1-13 is a lie, not you as a person. Jesus did not condemn all tradition, just the made-up ones. The error is lumping them together.

Oral Tradition that is mentioned in 1 Cor 11:2; 2 Thess 3:14-15; 2 Thess 2:15, etc. does not refer to orally transmitting the message of the Bible. It refers to the Oral Tradition apart from the Written Tradition (the Bible); both flowing from the same divine wellspring.

The Oral Tradition has not been corrupted and we know this for three reasons:

1) Oral Tradition and Written Tradition compliment one another and not contradict each other. But not everything is written in the Bible, according to the Bible itself (i.e. John 21:25; Acts 20:35). Thus since not everything is in the written record if Oral Tradition says something that is not explicit in the Written Tradition that does not make the Oral Tradition wrong. It only means that that subject was not mentioned in the Written Record.

Oral Tradition was a long time aspect of the religious life of the Jews. They recognized the existence of Divine Oral Tradition. There are some passages in the New Testament, for example, that refer to the Divine Revelation of the Old Testament but deal with items not in the written Old Testament. It is obvious the Apostles knew and believed in a Divine Oral Tradition.

2) The importance of Oral Tradition is great. This is seen by the fact that St. Paul tells us to listen to and obey Tradition (that is Divine Tradition, not human customs) as Scripture. He even tells us that people who do not follow this Divine Oral Tradition are to be shunned (2 Thess 3:14).

All the possible teachings of Jesus cannot possible be placed into one book and the Bible itself affirms. Also, there were no New Testament Scriptures in the early decades of the Church. All that existed was the Oral Tradition of the Apostles. Even after the letters of the New Testament began to be written and passed around it was not until the 4th century that the Church put in place exactly which letters were to be considered Scripture and which were not. How the bishops made that decision was, in part, on whether the letter in question was consistent with the Oral Tradition handed down from the Apostles.

Oral Tradition ALWAYS precedes Written Tradition. Written Tradition (the bible) is a small subset of the larger Oral Tradition. This has always been the case - in the Old Testament and in the New Testament times.

3) I proper concern is whether or not this Divine Oral Tradition is passed on from generation to generation accurately. Well, God is not so cruel that He would not account for some way to preserve His Word. His Word, after all is life. We must have a way to preserve the Word of God. God did that through a Magisterium protected by the Holy Spirit. God has ALWAYS had a Magisterium. In the Old Testament times we had the Chair of Moses that Jesus mentions in Matt 23:2. For the New Covenant a new chair of authority was put into place --- just as was done with the previous four covenants in Old Testament times. This new chair was and is the Chair of Peter (Matt 16, Isa 22:21-23).

But how to we check to be sure, if we do not have the faith to trust God's Magisterium? Well, the same way that we can know for sure that the Bible we read today is the what was actually written in the First Century -- by comparing what we have today with the written record of history.

In the case of the Bible, we compare what we have today with extant manuscripts from as close to the first century as possible.

In the case of the Oral Tradition, the same is true. We look to extant manuscripts of sermons, essays, Church documents, etc. from the Church Fathers that affirm that what we believe today is the same things that they believed then.

There is NO doctrine of the Catholic Church that cannot be traced to the early Church. Over the centuries our understanding of doctrine has matured from that of the infant Church, but the doctrine remains unchanged. We know this because we can prove it with documentary evidence.

When Protestants posit a theological belief that is contrary to what the Catholics believe, I ask that person to show me where any of the Church Fathers believed has he believes. If the early Christians believed as the Protestants do today there would be some evidence of this -- essays, sermons, writings of some sort. But there are none. The Catholic Church, however, can produce truckloads of extant manuscripts from the First, Second, and Third Centuries that show the foundation for ALL that the Catholic Church believes.

This evidence is overwhelming and sure. There are no other works of antiquity that we are as sure about as we are about the teachings of the Catholic Church.

One of the rules of historical documentary evidence is that a manuscript that was written or copied 50 years after the actual event or after the original autograph is most likely to be more accurate than a copy made 500 years late.
Well the oldest extant manuscript we have of Plato was a copy made 900 years after Plato's death. In actuality we cannot possible know for sure if those writings are actually Plato's.

But with the New Testament writings we have extant copies only a few decades from the original autographs. This is POWERFUL evidence that the Bible we have today is indeed the accurate writings of the Apostles.

In similar manner, we have extant copies of the thinking and teachings of the Church Fathers that we can compare to prove that the Oral Tradition we teach today had its foundations and beginnings in the early Church.

If a person is to believe that the Platonic Dialogues are actually written by Plato, then one should have no problems believing that the Oral Tradition of the Church is intact for the evidence for the Church is nearly absolute, the evidence for Plato is essentially speculative.

 

[Illuminator]

Matthew 2:23 And he went and dwelt in a city called Nazareth, that what was spoken by the prophets might be fulfilled, "He shall be called a Nazarene."
That's not found in the OT, so how did it get into the NT??? Oral Tradition.

Matthew 23:2 "The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat; 3 so practice and observe whatever they tell you, but not what they do; for they preach, but do not practice.

Sit on Moses' seat? That's not found in the OT either, so how did it get into the NT??? Oral Tradition.

1Cor.10:4 and all drank the same supernatural drink. For they drank from the supernatural Rock which followed them, and the Rock was Christ.

Followed by a rock? Where is that in the OT?

None of the following are found anywhere in the Gospels or the Old Testament:

A) Acts 20:35 In all things I have shown you that by so toiling one must help the weak, remembering the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, `It is more blessed to give than to receive.”

B) Eph.5:14 Therefore it is said, "Awake, O sleeper, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give you light."

"remembering the words" and "it is said" does not mean "reading the words"

C) Hebrews 11:32 And what more shall I say? For time would fail me to tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, of David and Samuel and the prophets – 37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were killed with the sword; they went about in skins of sheep and goats, destitute, afflicted, ill-treated --
You have to use an unadulterated Bible to find the cross reference.

D) Jude 14 It was of these also that Enoch in the seventh generation from Adam prophesied, saying, "Behold, the Lord came with his holy myriads, 15 to execute judgment on all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their deeds of ungodliness which they have committed in such an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

seventh generation from Adam? Where is that in the OT?

 

[[email protected]]

A big fat lie. Read the context.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:

"your own tradition", the ones the Pharisees invented so they would look holy by giving everything to the temple at the expense of their parents. That's what disturbed Jesus. "your own tradition" violated the commandments of God to honor father or mother, the traditions they invented had nothing to do with the Mishna.
Abusing Mark 7:1-13 is a tradition of men, a vain attempt to discredit all Oral Tradition.

Your criticism of Jesus' words recorded in Mark 7:1-13 is noted.

We must remember Jesus IS A JEW. In all of the gospels Jesus is speaking to Jews. Each and every one of them were well aware of Talmudic legal requirements(traditions and works) and each of them were well aware of Torah (because to this day Jews read from the Torah scroll in every synagogue on every shabbat).

Church types are basically ignorant of the existence of 2 laws and aren't usually familiar with either one of them.

The discussion here (Mark 7:1-13) is based upon TWO LAWS (1). In our modern age Jesus' theological position would be described as that of a Karaite Jew (as is my own). Please google the term "Karaite Jew". (Wikipedia has a good essay on this term.)

On their most basic level the 2 laws conflict with each other.

Torah binds the believer to God by faith. Talmud attempts to justify its proponents by works and/or traditions invented by society and religious leadership.

Tradition based religion only serves to give the practitioner a false sense of hope. For instance, it's entirely appropriate for a modern Jew to practice Jewish traditions and claim to be an atheist. God has little or nothing to do with Jewish Talmudic traditions. The throne of heaven is completely and totally detached from the theology.

That being said there's nothing basically wrong with tradition. In all its appropriate forms it creates a ceremonial repetition that affirms the reality of God and of the place of man in God's scheme of things. The problem with tradition arises when its forms are used to subvert the sovereign rule of and faith toward God. This is the problem of the current APOSTATE CHURCH.

Today its entirely appropriate amongst human culture to substitute religious observance to justify any mean and wicked thing people put their hands on. This includes; support for wars against those who have not sought to disturb domestic tranquility, homosexual life styles that subvert every aspect of culture as well as the employment of religion for purposes of financial aggrandizement. Thus it can be truthfully said that preachers have one hand on the Bible and the other hand in someone else's pocket (sometimes their pants too).

In other words, American churches have fallen into the SAME TRAP of traditionalism that Jesus spoke against in Mark 7:1-13. Yet because of their anti-semitic attitude of superiority they assume they alone are exceptional on the earth. They are not.

Today the church blasphemes God by abolishing His LAW, by establishing itself as God on earth (2), and by asserting falsely that Jesus abolished the LAW, which He most certainly did NOT.

I did NOT come to abolish the LAW. I came to fulfill it. (Matthew 5:17

Again - the LAW Jesus defended was Torah. The law He and the apostles argued against is Talmud.

Please be aware of this most important difference when you read and study scripture of the New Testament/Covenant.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
(1) Two laws generally labeled are Torah (LAW of Grace given by God to Moses) and Talmud (Law of works created by the Jewish rabbinate during their captivity in Babylon). If we wish to get into extreme technicalities there are more than two, but for purposes of illumination of the reader we can confine our lesson to two laws only and remain truthful, accurate and faithful to the passage in question (Mark 7:1-13).

(2) "The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in heaven and earth." (Barclay Cap. XXVII, p. 218. Cities Petrus Bertrandus, Pius V.) Today the American protestant church marches in lock step with the basic theology of the Vatican. As such they are also guilty of the SIN of blaspheme in that they have also declared their position to be equal with God.

 

[Illuminator]

Your criticism of Jesus' words recorded in Mark 7:1-13 is noted.

I have not criticized Jesus' words, I criticized your false interpretation that DENIES why Jesus castigated the Jews inventing their own traditions in the first place. They were not honoring their parents and you haven't addressed that point once. And you refuse to understand the meaning of "your traditions" because "your traditions" has nothing to do with good traditions. Yes there are bad man made traditions that we are to avoid, and good traditions that Paul commands us to keep. Jesus kept Jewish traditions. Mark 7:1-13 does not condemn ALL traditions, and if it is used in the sense of condemning all traditions, then it is in itself, a false tradition. Fundamentalists, JW's, and SDA do the same thing with these verses when attacking a straw man fallacy.

We must remember Jesus IS A JEW. In all of the gospels Jesus is speaking to Jews. Each and every one of them were well aware of Talmudic legal requirements(traditions and works) and each of them were well aware of Torah (because to this day Jews read from the Torah scroll in every synagogue on every shabbat).

Church types are basically ignorant of the existence of 2 laws and aren't usually familiar with either one of them.
You are too proud to admit a false interpretation of "your traditions" it has nothing to do with valid Jewish traditions or any lawThe discussion here (Mark 7:1-13) is based upon TWO LAWS (1). In our modern age Jesus' theological position would be described as that of a Karaite Jew (as is my own). Please google the term "Karaite Jew". (Wikipedia has a good essay on this term.)

Nonsense. Mark 7:1-13 has to do with Jesus condemning man made traditions; the ones they made up. That's what "your traditions" means, and you are arrogantly denying it.

On their most basic level the 2 laws conflict with each other.

Torah binds the believer to God by faith. Talmud attempts to justify its proponents by works and/or traditions invented by society and religious leadership.

Tradition based religion only serves to give the practitioner a false sense of hope. For instance, it's entirely appropriate for a modern Jew to practice Jewish traditions and claim to be an atheist. God has little or nothing to do with Jewish Talmudic traditions. The throne of heaven is completely and totally detached from the theology.

More nonsense. Obviously you have a totally different definition of "Tradition" that is not biblical.

That being said there's nothing basically wrong with tradition. In all its appropriate forms it creates a ceremonial repetition that affirms the reality of God and of the place of man in God's scheme of things. The problem with tradition arises when its forms are used to subvert the sovereign rule of and faith toward God. This is the problem of the current APOSTATE CHURCH.

More straw man fallacies, followed by a childish insult.

(2) "The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in heaven and earth." (Barclay Cap. XXVII, p. 218. Cities Petrus Bertrandus, Pius V.) Today the American protestant church marches in lock step with the basic theology of the Vatican. As such they are also guilty of the SIN of blaspheme in that they have also declar

You have a bad case of anti-Catholic psychosis. Your reference is a fabrication, borrowed from some cheap "Bible-Christian" hate site.
I searched high and low and the only sites having this on it are anti-Catholic sites. What the heck is "Barclay Cap" and "Cities Petrus Bertrandus"? I searched Google books and nothing comes up. I also searched the catholic encyclopedia and nothing came up. I searched with Google and nothing credible comes up. However, I found this:

Pope St. Pius V Claimed To Be God (Say Anti-Catholics)

Anti-Catholics have massively lied about a 1570 citation from Pope St. Pius V. They say he claimed to be God. The primary source proves otherwise.

www.patheos.com

You have to attack me with a viscous LIE because your false interpretation of Mark 7:1-13 has been exposed. You senselessly flail away with law, law, law because post # 273-274 has you stumped.
I'll wait right here for your next off-topic flaming zinger. (standard anti-Catholic methodology)

 

[Johann]

I have not criticized Jesus' words, I criticized your false interpretation that DENIES why Jesus castigated the Jews inventing their own traditions in the first place. They were not honoring their parents and you haven't addressed that point once. And you refuse to understand the meaning of "your traditions" because "your traditions" has nothing to do with good traditions. Yes there are bad man made traditions that we are to avoid, and good traditions that Paul commands us to keep. Jesus kept Jewish traditions. Mark 7:1-13 does not condemn ALL traditions, and if it is used in the sense of condemning all traditions, then it is in itself, a false tradition. Fundamentalists, JW's, and SDA do the same thing with these verses when attacking a straw man fallacy.


Nonsense. Mark 7:1-13 has to do with Jesus condemning man made traditions; the ones they made up. That's what "your traditions" means, and you are arrogantly denying it.

More nonsense. Obviously you have a totally different definition of "Tradition" both in the Jewish sense and the biblical sense.

Another straw man fallacy, followed by a childish insult.

You have a bad case of anti-Catholic psychosis. Your reference is a fabrication, borrowed from some cheap "Bible-Christian" hate site.
I searched high and low and the only sites having this on it are anti-Catholic sites. What the heck is "Barclay Cap" and "Cities Petrus Bertrandus"? I searched Google books and nothing comes up. I also searched the catholic encyclopedia and nothing came up. I searched with Google and nothing credible comes up. You have to attack me with a viscous LIE because your false interpretation of Mark 7:1-13 has been exposed.
I'll wait right here for your next off-topic flaming zinger. (standard anti-Catholic methodology)

No wonder everyone is shunning you.
The "Illuminator" don't have illumination.

 

[Johann]

No wonder everyone is shunning you.
The "Illuminator" don't have illumination.

Torah Transmission -- from G-d to Us

משה בן-מימון / Moses ben Maimon (Moses, son of Maimon -- known as Maimonides, or the Rambam) (1135 - 1204 CE) was a physician to the Egyptian leader, a philosopher, and the greatest...

nojesus4jews.weebly.com

 

[Illuminator]

No wonder everyone is shunning you.
The "Illuminator" don't have illumination.

Make a a list of "everyone" who is shunning me or stop making false assumptions and stupid insults.
I predict this thread will soon close because anti-trinitarian made-in-America bible clubs infect threads with absurd lies, insults, falsehoods, fallacies and inflammatory zingers, rendering discussion impossible. Welcome to my iggy bin.

 

[Johann]

I predict this thread will soon close because anti-trinitarian made-in-America bible clubs infect threads with absurd lies, insults, falsehoods, fallacies and inflammatory zingers, rendering discussion impossible. Welcome to my iggy bin.

You have a good day @Illuminator
To God be the glory
J.