Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Yes its all about Salvation, in fact its all the Gospel. Pauls whole Letter to the Romans was premised on the Gospel of God and Jesus Christ, from the very first chapter Rom 1:1,15,16-17

Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Romans 11:32, "For God hath shut up all unto disobedience, that he might have mercy upon all"

The UNIVERSAL OFFER of the Gospel!

 

[TahitiRun]

I don't agree. Not everyone is put into the lake of Fire.

It's because we're using the terms (soul, body, spirit, flesh, etc.) differently. Everyone, according to the flesh, ends up in the lake of fire, not the spirit or body, per se, (ie: soul), but rather the "flesh". And that is a good thing. That's where death belongs and is swallowed up in victory.

This is taught in scripture. And it happens for all flesh, "together".

Job 34:15 All flesh shall perish together, and man shall return unto dust.

The purging/cutting off/ and departing of the "flesh" (ie: the nature of the body, aka: carnal/natural/old man, that worker of iniquity, lawlessness, unrighteousness, that which is not found written in the book of life, etc.) takes place in and through the "furnace of fire". The dross thereof is cast into the "lake of fire" where the "body of this death" is brought to it's final end. Paul rejoiced at this, here:

Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

And in so doing, the body can now be raised as a spiritual body, a heavenly body, without the "flesh".

Anyway, the concepts I've expressed here are difficult to see and grasp if we're not using the same terms and words in the same way. And I fully understand those who do not use the terms like I do. However, that's where the differences are.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes its all about Salvation, in fact its all the Gospel. Pauls whole Letter to the Romans was premised on the Gospel of God and Jesus Christ, from the very first chapter Rom 1:1,15,16-17

Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Romans 9 - 11 is a break in pauls normal writing, He stopped and started a different context. Because he felt he needed to answer a question.

Your wrong bro. no matter how you slice it. Romans 9 - 11 is answering the question about Israel the nation. Not about the salvation of gentile people

 

[CadyandZoe]

It's because we're using the terms (soul, body, spirit, flesh, etc.) differently. Everyone, according to the flesh, ends up in the lake of fire, not the spirit or body, per se, (ie: soul), but rather the "flesh". And that is a good thing. That's where death belongs and is swallowed up in victory.

This is taught in scripture. And it happens for all flesh, "together".

Job 34:15 All flesh shall perish together, and man shall return unto dust.

The purging/cutting off/ and departing of the "flesh" (ie: the nature of the body, aka: carnal/natural/old man, that worker of iniquity, lawlessness, unrighteousness, that which is not found written in the book of life, etc.) takes place in and through the "furnace of fire". The dross thereof is cast into the "lake of fire" where the "body of this death" is brought to it's final end. Paul rejoiced at this, here:

Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

And in so doing, the body can now be raised as a spiritual body, a heavenly body, without the "flesh".

Anyway, the concepts I've expressed here are difficult to see and grasp if we're not using the same terms and words in the same way. And I fully understand those who do not use the terms like I do. However, that's where the differences are.

The Bible contains terms that I like to use, since it avoids confusion and error.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Nope. Not all of it.

If you read chapter 9 you see how God chose Israel his own way, not the way Men chose it.

He did it his way.

he ends with the promise, that even though Israel rejected him (in part) there will be a day when all Israel will be saved. SO in the end, What God planned from the time he chose Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as an elect nation. who will serve and love God. That will happen.

Of course. What you just said applies to the central issue, which is God's promise to pour out his spirit on Israel, forgive them, and grant them eternal life. As of the writing of Paul's epistle to the Romans, God hadn't done that. Paul is attempting explain why God's promise hasn't failed.

 

[CadyandZoe]

God has blessed every jewish person? How do you deal with romans 11. where Israel is blinded in part. Where they are our enemy concerning the gospel.

I am dealing with the passages as a whole. You want to focus on one aspect of the whole passage..

Thats a problem

I didn't say that God blessed every Jewish person. I said that the Jews themselves understood the prophets to say that God would grant salvation and eternal life to each and every Jewish person. God didn't promise eternal life to each and every Jewish person, but Paul has to argue that point because, clearly, one CAN infer universal Jewish salvation from the Hebrew Scriptures.

Consider Ezekiel 36, for instance, where God is speaking to the house of Israel. He tells them, corporate Israel, "[t]hen I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh." As Paul says earlier in Romans 9, THIS promise belongs to his kinsmen of the flesh. The Lord explicitly mentioned the House of Israel. It would be an easy mistake to make to conclude that God's promise to Israel had failed.

 

[brightfame52]

Romans 11:32, "For God hath shut up all unto disobedience, that he might have mercy upon all"

The UNIVERSAL OFFER of the Gospel!

Thats about Salvation, and its about Gods elect vessels of mercy from amongest the jews and gentiles. Its not an offer, You have interposed that false ideal there.

 

[brightfame52]

Romans 9 - 11 is a break in pauls normal writing, He stopped and started a different context. Because he felt he needed to answer a question.

Your wrong bro. no matter how you slice it. Romans 9 - 11 is answering the question about Israel the nation. Not about the salvation of gentile people

Romans 9-11 like the rest of the book is about salvation.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Romans 9-11 like the rest of the book is about salvation.

Nope..

But you will only see what you want to see,

by the way, Romans 12 is about those who are saved, and spiritual gifting, and how we should act.

so your double wrong..

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Thats about Salvation, and its about Gods elect vessels of mercy from amongest the jews and gentiles. Its not an offer, You have interposed that false ideal there.

So according to you God has shut up in disobedience only the elect? The others are no doubt obedient

 

[brightfame52]

Nope..

But you will only see what you want to see,

by the way, Romans 12 is about those who are saved, and spiritual gifting, and how we should act.

so your double wrong..

Yes, the whole book is about Salvation. Chpt 1-11 Theological and 12-16 more to the practical

 

[brightfame52]

So according to you God has shut up in disobedience only the elect? The others are no doubt obedient

In Chapter 11 of Romans yes those God shut up to disobedience was the elect, in order to have mercy on them. God has no mercy for the non elect, they are vessels of wrath !

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

In Chapter 11 of Romans yes those God shut up to disobedience was the elect, in order to have mercy on them. God has no mercy for the non elect, they are vessels of wrath !

That is what your theology teaches. The Bible says different. In Romans 9.22 God bears with the vessels of wrath with much longsuffering so that they may repent and believe

 

[CadyandZoe]

That is what your theology teaches. The Bible says different. In Romans 9.22 God bears with the vessels of wrath with much longsuffering so that they may repent and believe

You are putting words in Paul's mouth. He doesn't say that the vessels of wrath might repent.

You still haven't dealt with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

You are putting words in Paul's mouth. He doesn't say that the vessels of wrath might repent.

You still haven't dealt with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

What Paul says in Romans 9.22 is what Peter says in 2 Peter 3.9 where it is clear repentance

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes, the whole book is about Salvation. Chpt 1-11 Theological and 12-16 more to the practical

actually 1 - 8 is about salvation

9 - 11 is about Israel and Gods chosing and his promise to them

and 12 - 16 is about sanctification or christian growth.

Nice try though

 

[brightfame52]

That is what your theology teaches. The Bible says different. In Romans 9.22 God bears with the vessels of wrath with much longsuffering so that they may repent and believe

Thats what Rom 11 teaches. God will have mercy on all the vessels of mercy Rom 9. He's not going to have mercy on the vessels of wrath, thats counter His purpose.

 

[brightfame52]

actually 1 - 8 is about salvation

9 - 11 is about Israel and Gods chosing and his promise to them

and 12 - 16 is about sanctification or christian growth.

Nice try though

Chapters 9-11 are about Salvation as well. Again the whole Book is.

 

[Jim B]

What do these posts have to do with the OP? (Jacob I loved but Esau I hated)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Chapters 9-11 are about Salvation as well. Again the whole Book is.

Whatever dude.

Good luck ;)