Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated

[Eternally Grateful]

Show from the passage in John that election to salvation is Biblical

Who mentioned John?

Election is biblical. Not only in Israel as being Gods elect nation. But in the born again as Gods elect or chosen people.

As far as where we have romans, 2 Timothy, Titus 1 peter 2 peter. Look up the word elect you will see it (there is even elect angels)

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Who mentioned John?

Election is biblical. Not only in Israel as being Gods elect nation. But in the born again as Gods elect or chosen people.

As far as where we have romans, 2 Timothy, Titus 1 peter 2 peter. Look up the word elect you will see it (there is even elect angels)

I quoted John 3.16 to 18 which is conclusive against this teaching.

Sinners become part of the Church which is the elect ones when they repent and believe

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I quoted John 3.16 to 18 which is conclusive against this teaching.

Sinners become part of the Church which is the elect ones when they repent and believe

God chose based on his forknowledge before time began. We can not ignore that fact.
God knew who they would be before time began.

it is just not as the fatalist says he chose to save them randomly

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

God chose based on his forknowledge before time began. We can not ignore that fact.
God knew who they would be before time began.

it is just not as the fatalist says he chose to save them randomly

Salvation is available to everyone in the entire human race. Not just for the elect as falsely taught by some

The sinner needs to be convicted by the Holy Spirit first and only then can they call on the Lord in repentance and faith for their salvation

 

[Ziggy]

Isaac loved Esau because of his son's venison, BUT Rebekah loved Jacob.

Did Rebekah not love Esau?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Salvation is available to everyone in the entire human race.

I never said otherwise.

Not just for the elect as falsely taught by some

The sinner needs to be convicted by the Holy Spirit first and only then can they call on the Lord in repentance and faith for their salvation

True

But this does not take away the fact that we are elect before the foundation of the world.

 

[Ziggy]

Gen 25:23 And the LORD said unto her (Rebekah), Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.

This is what the Lord said.. Two nations are in thy womb, one people will be stronger than the other, and the elder shall serve the younger.

I don't hear, I will love one and hate the other.
But that each will have a purpose.

Question is: How did Rebekah hear it?

 

[Ziggy]

Gen 25:27 And the boys grew: and Esau was a cunning hunter, a man of the field; and Jacob was a plain man, dwelling in tents.
Gen 25:28 And Isaac loved Esau, because he did eat of his venison: but Rebekah loved Jacob.

It's the "but"... why the "but" ?

 

[Ziggy]

Gen 25:29 And Jacob sod pottage: and Esau came from the field, and he was faint:
Gen 25:30 And Esau said to Jacob, Feed me, I pray thee, with that same red pottage; for I am faint: therefore was his name called Edom.
Gen 25:31 And Jacob said, Sell me this day thy birthright.

So, My brother been out working all week, but payday isn't until tomorrow.
He comes to my house asking me for some of my chicken stew.
I say, hey brother, I'll tell you what. I'll give you stew but you have to sell me your car.

Now the only way my brother can get his paycheck tomorrow to feed himself is by driving to work to get it.
And he knows if he don't eat today, he's going to be in no condition in the morning to drive.
So at this point, what's more important, his life or his car?

What would you do?

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

But this does not take away the fact that we are elect before the foundation of the world

only in the sense that God is not in "time", like it says "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world" (Rev 13:8), yet Jesus did not Die on the Cross till about 33AD! It is not literal.

 

[Ziggy]

Gen 25:32 And Esau said, Behold, I am at the point to die: and what profit shall this birthright do to me?
Gen 25:33 And Jacob said, Swear to me this day; and he sware unto him: and he sold his birthright unto Jacob.
Gen 25:34 Then Jacob gave Esau bread and pottage of lentiles; and he did eat and drink, and rose up, and went his way: thus Esau despised his birthright.

That birthright caused a division between the brothers.
It wasn't Esau's fault he was hungry, and it wasn't Jabob's fault either.
Jacob was a tool that was used to fulfill a prophecy.

One could say, where was Jacob's mercy? Why couldn't he just share his food?
Because God's word never fails, nor returns unto him void.
It had to be this way.

If Esau had been walking by faith, he probably would of told Jacob, keep it, The Lord will provide.
But you know what Esau did do? He submitted to the younger and gave him his birthright.
Not because he wanted to, but because it was necessary for God's plan.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

only in the sense that God is not in "time", like it says "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world" (Rev 13:8), yet Jesus did not Die on the Cross till about 33AD! It is not literal.

yeah it is literal.

Its based on Gods foreknowledge, God is omniscient, He knew Christ was going to die before time began, he knew when and how. Just like he knew you or I would accept his gift before time.

Its gods character. To say God did not know is to limit God

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

yeah it is literal.

Its based on Gods foreknowledge, God is omniscient, He knew Christ was going to die before time began, he knew when and how. Just like he knew you or I would accept his gift before time.

Its gods character. To say God did not know is to limit God

do you know that there is a difference between FOREKNOWLEDGE and FOREORDAINING?

 

[CadyandZoe]

Romans 9 - 11 is paul answering. Question he posed in vs 6. Did God make a mistake. A mistake at what?

Chosing Israel.

He systematically answers every argument in refusal to what the jews were saying about themselves. And about what the OT stated would happen.

He spoke of how Israel would sin,

He spoke of how the gentiles would be given the word also

He spoke of how even the gentiles would boast of how great they were. And how he wanted them to be careful. That in the end. All the promises God made to israel will be fulfilled. Because his gifts are irrevocable

Good summary, but it doesn't deal with the central issue, which is the basis for the question in verse 6. The central issue is "the adoption as sons" and why God has not blessed each and every Jewish person with the Holy Spirit as he seemed to promise.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Not all of chapter 9 - 11 is my friend.

If you take it as that is context. You will never understand why Paul took a time out in his letter to address a major issue which was occuring in rome at the time.

Yes, all of it.

 

[CadyandZoe]

As I have said many times, John 3:16-18 shows beyond any doubt that election to salvation cannot be Biblical

No, you haven't. You think you have but you haven't. I'm trying to help you see that your conclusion is based on a hidden assumption, which you seem reluctant to examine closely.

Let's look at the passage again, and I will point out your assumption.

What it says:
whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

What you hear:
God made an offer of salvation and whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

You ASSUME that salvation is granted to man when he accepts the offer to be saved. This assumption is NOT biblical nor proven from John 3:16-18. No where in the Bible is that offer ever made. You will not find the sinner's prayer in the Bible. You will not find "accept Jesus into your heart" in the Bible. No where in the Bible does it record an alter call.

How many people understand the central focus of the Gospel of John. I wonder if many Christians know, because we are all taught that the central focus of the Gospel of John is the deity of Christ, but in fact, the central focus of the Gospel of John is belief itself. John is helping his readers explore why some believe while others do not believe.

For example, go up the page where Jesus speaks to Nicodemus about being born again, or born from above. He tells Nicodemus that a person can't see the kingdom of God unless he or she is born again. In other words, unless a person experiences rebirth, from the Spirit, one is unable to comprehend the meaning and significance of Jesus' miracles and come to saving faith.

We can't understand John 3:16 until we fully understand John 3:6. The entire New Testament is filled with instances of this essential doctrine: the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. John is telling his readers that spiritual awakening, enlightenment, rebirth or whatever you want to call it, is an essential and necessary prerequisite to belief and perseverance in belief.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

do you know that there is a difference between FOREKNOWLEDGE and FOREORDAINING?

Whom he foreknew he did predestine (predetermine) to be conformed to the image.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Good summary, but it doesn't deal with the central issue, which is the basis for the question in verse 6. The central issue is "the adoption as sons" and why God has not blessed each and every Jewish person with the Holy Spirit as he seemed to promise.

God has blessed every jewish person? How do you deal with romans 11. where Israel is blinded in part. Where they are our enemy concerning the gospel.

I am dealing with the passages as a whole. You want to focus on one aspect of the whole passage..

Thats a problem

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes, all of it.

Nope. Not all of it.

If you read chapter 9 you see how God chose Israel his own way, not the way Men chose it.

He did it his way.

he ends with the promise, that even though Israel rejected him (in part) there will be a day when all Israel will be saved. SO in the end, What God planned from the time he chose Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as an elect nation. who will serve and love God. That will happen.

 

[brightfame52]

Not all of chapter 9 - 11 is my friend.

If you take it as that is context. You will never understand why Paul took a time out in his letter to address a major issue which was occuring in rome at the time.

Yes its all about Salvation, in fact its all the Gospel. Pauls whole Letter to the Romans was premised on the Gospel of God and Jesus Christ, from the very first chapter Rom 1:1,15,16-17

Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.