It's about "relationship"...right?

[Phoneman777]

High-sounding platitudes - we hear them constantly. Where once was powerfully preached and gladly heard echoed a plain "thus saith the Lord" is now filled with a cacophony of shallow religious colloquialisms and sound bites...and Christians of today's largely backslidden church "love to have it so" (Jeremiah 5:31 KJV). One of the most popular of these is "It's not about religion, but about relaaaaationship". Fine, then. What were perhaps the two most important things Jesus referred to in teaching us about what constitutes a proper relationship with God? about how He relates to us and how we are to Him?

Children and marriage.

So, what did God say was to be the fate of Israelite children who strike their parents? Stoned to death. Yet, somehow the OSAS crowd which makes up the majority of Christianity today ignores this divine revelation of God's uncompromising will that solemn reverence for parents be in the heart of every child, young or old, that by this they may also learn to reverence Him -- and instead, spit in their heavenly Father's face and "crucify the Son of God afresh and put Him to an open shame" by willfully sinning against Him after receiving a knowledge of the truth (Hebrews 10:26 KJV). They believe grace somehow cripples His justice and makes His bark worse than His bite - that the fresh nails of sin they drive daily into the hands and feet of Jesus will go unnoticed in the day of Judgment.

So, what does the Bible say about the marital obligations of the husband and wife? That the man (or woman) who commits adultery is a fool who will end up lost (Proverbs 6:32 KJV). Yet, somehow the OSAS "faithful" think God is satisfied with presumptuous, deliberate, habitual unfaithfulness to His Ten Commandments, while they themselves will slap even a one-time unfaithful spouse with divorce papers and remarry before the ink has a chance to dry.

Sure, it's about "relationship" alright - one of double standards and selfish terms. Is that the kind of relationship we are to have with the One Who had every right to abandon us with that first bite of forbidden fruit, but instead at that moment began a long journey to what would be the ultimate, infinite sacrifice for our redemption - even if not a single soul would have been touched by His grace and surrendered their heart to Him?

 

[Pisteuo]

Rom 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. This is where I found a relationship with God. Not through fear of hell or wrath. But the fact that when I was at my worst He chose to show me His best. I believe it is the goodness of God which brings men to repentance.

 

[Phoneman777]

Rom 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. This is where I found a relationship with God. Not through fear of hell or wrath. But the fact that when I was at my worst He chose to show me His best. I believe it is the goodness of God which brings men to repentance.

Yes, but not all repent...and many sit in church thinking they're in a "relaaaaaaaationship" with Jesus when in reality, their true affections are toward the devil. "Ye shall know them by their fruits".

 

[shortangel]

good points here, gives me something to think about

 

[Pisteuo]

Yes, but not all repent...and many sit in church thinking they're in a "relaaaaaaaationship" with Jesus when in reality, their true affections are toward the devil. "Ye shall know them by their fruits".

I agree. We see it all the time. We have our hands raised high in the air swaying, singing "it's all about Jesus" while thinking "is he staring at me"? Or "man she's pretty", all the while proving it's nothing about Jesus. And many of these people are "lifers" at their churches. But I have to realize that I am not the potter, just a clump of clay not here to mold anyone into what I think Christ in them should look like. I can only plant the seed and let God give the increase as He perfectly sees fit. But I certainly feel your frustration at times.

 

[mailmandan]

Rom 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. This is where I found a relationship with God. Not through fear of hell or wrath. But the fact that when I was at my worst He chose to show me His best. I believe it is the goodness of God which brings men to repentance.

Prior to my conversion several years ago, I attended a church that focused more on rituals, unhealthy fear, along with bondage to legalism than they did a relationship with God. It was the love and grace of God that brought me to Christ.

John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent (which is an intimate, experiential knowledge, found only in a relationship). The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him and not merely theoretical knowledge.

 

[Philip James]

The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him and not merely theoretical knowledge.

Hello mailmandan,

Indeed! The intimate union of the Groom and His bride!

For this reason a man shall leave (his) father and (his) mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh."

This is a great mystery, but I speak in reference to Christ and the church

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding Feast of the Lamb of God!

Pax et Bonum

 

[shortangel]

great perspectives here

 

[BeyondET]

Yet, somehow the OSAS "faithful" think God is satisfied with presumptuous, deliberate, habitual unfaithfulness to His Ten Commandments, while they themselves will slap even a one-time unfaithful spouse with divorce papers and remarry before the ink has a chance to dry.

Come on man really, you know afew OSAS who spouse cheated on them and they divorced them. Sounds a bit made up.

 

[BeyondET]

They believe grace somehow cripples His justice and makes His bark worse than His bite - that the fresh nails of sin they drive daily into the hands and feet of Jesus will go unnoticed in the day of Judgment.

How do you think Jesus would feel about you mentioning such things driving nails in his feet and hands do you have any idea what he went through? Using his scars for that really good lord.

 

[Wrangler]

So, what did God say was to be the fate of Israelite children who strike their parents? Stoned to death. Yet, somehow the OSAS crowd ... That the man (or woman) who commits adultery is a fool who will end up lost (Proverbs 6:32 KJV)... Sure, it's about "relationship" alright - one of double standards and selfish terms.

While I am not part of the OSAS crowd, you support your position using OT standards, Old Covenant consequences, which never applied to the Gentiles to begin with, which most Christians are.

Thank God it is about relationships because if it were based on my own performance, while outstanding in many regards, still falls short of the mark. And allow me to say one other thing about the divine standard of perfection; we were never meant to meet it! We were always meant to have a relationship with God. His solution to our transgression begins with our confession of humility; that we are not God and cannot meet his standard. IMO, no one can or even would accept Jesus as their lord and savior if they did not first make this humble confession.

 

[Pisteuo]

Knowing that I cannot even love Him unless He first loved me is a telling sign that it couldn't be a performance based relationship. God saying "I know who you are and I love you" shows that He sees us not for what we've done but for who He created us to be.

 

[Phoneman777]

Come on man really, you know afew OSAS who spouse cheated on them and they divorced them. Sounds a bit made up.

Have you seen the divorce rate in the church?

 

[Phoneman777]

How do you think Jesus would feel about you mentioning such things driving nails in his feet and hands do you have any idea what he went through? Using his scars for that really good lord.

How do you feel about PAUL mentioning it? He does so in Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV.

 

[BeyondET]

How do you feel about PAUL mentioning it? He does so in Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV.

I don't see nails mentioned and thats the point no need to exaggerate on it.

 

[BeyondET]

Have you seen the divorce rate in the church?

Is there a OSAS church you have in mind.
Church is a broad statement

 

[Phoneman777]

While I am not part of the OSAS crowd, you support your position using OT standards, Old Covenant consequences, which never applied to the Gentiles to begin with, which most Christians are.

Wrong - the only laws that pertained only to Israel we’re the Mosaic laws of ceremonies and sacrifices which pointed to Jesus. It was, is, and always will be wrong to break the Ten Commandments - they existed long before Israel.

Thank God it is about relationships because if it were based on my own performance, while outstanding in many regards, still falls short of the mark.

Salvation has always been based upon whether we accept Jesus in our heart - good or bad performance is merely the outward evidence of our inward choice (1 John 2:3-4 KJV)

And allow me to say one other thing about the divine standard of perfection; we were never meant to meet it!

We we’re always intended to be holy, just, and good and we may do “all things through Christ” including perfection “even as your Heavenly Father is perfect”.

His solution to our transgression begins with our confession of humility; that we are not God and cannot meet his standard.

The holy angels aren’t divine, yet they meet the standard perfectly, so your idea only gods can meet it fails here.

As for us, IN OUR FALLEN STATE we are helpless to meet it - in our UPRIGHT CHRISTIAN STATE we are “more than conquerors” - anyone who argues we can’t meet God’s standard of righteousness inadvertently calls God a liar because it’s not a matter of our obvious lack in skill but of whether we surrender our will - Jesus supplies all the skill we need once we

IMO, no one can or even would accept Jesus as their lord and savior if they did not first make this humble confession.

True - it’s the goodness of God that leads us to confess and repent, otherwise we’d have no idea we’re headlong toward destruction - just look around at the unchurched world and see for yourself. ​

 

[Phoneman777]

I don't see nails mentioned and thats the point no need to exaggerate on it.

Try reading the passage with your eyes open:

“…crucify the Son of God afresh…”

 

[Wrangler]

The holy angels aren’t divine, yet they meet the standard perfectly, so your idea only gods can meet it fails here.

If that were true, 1/3 of the Angels would not have rebelled against God.

 

[Phoneman777]

Is there a OSAS church you have in mind.
Church is a broad statement

Let’s at least agree the majority of believers today are OSAS - try standing up in your church this weekend and say if we branches fail to continue abiding in the Vine “Jesus”, we’ll be cast into the Lake of Fire, and see how long you last.