Israel

[Jay Ross]

Jay, I can see your paradigm is set to interpret as you do, however I feel you have missed the main thrust of scripture when it comes to marrying OT prophecies and the reality of Jesus.

This is a very ambiguous statement on your part and for me to understand where you are coming from, I would need to know the background of what you are saying.

Now since the title of this thread is simply "Israel", it would seem to me that I had kept to the intended topic for this thread. Jesus in the storyline of Israel is just a blip halfway along at this present moment in Israel's story.

Around the year 2044 AD Jesus will begin to play a much bigger role in Israel's story.

Shalom

 

[Carl Emerson]

Carl, as a supposed teacher, did you not see the reference to the Armageddon judgement as well, in the portion of Luke 14 that I had quoted. That the Jewish attempt to rebuild the temple will be the trigger for the Little Horn to gather an army to go up against God's Temple and His earthly Host, for a last ditched attempt to fulfil the Daniel 8 prophecy before the allotted time span, of the 2,300 years, is completed. That Isaiah 24:21-22 will play out before us at Armageddon for the gathered kings of the earth. Did you not see that Israel will seek the terms of peace from the king judging the gathered kings of the earth as well as Paul's statement in Romans 11:25b-26 that after the fulness of the Gentiles is completed, that all of Israel will be saved.

Have you not read that when God gathers the Israelites to Himself, that He will place/plant them in His fertile field/soil and will teach them on the religion of Israel. Have you not read in Genesis 12:3 the following: -

Genesis 12:3: - 3 I will bless those who bless you,​

And I will curse him who curses you;​

And through you all the families inhabiting my fertile soil shall be blessed."​

where only those who inhabit God's fertile soil/field will be blessed through Abraham's descendants.

In the passage from Luke that I posted, did you not see that Israel will be discarded if Israel has lost it saltiness. A harsh judgement if Israel does not stand up to be redeemed by God in the Last Generation of time.

Carl, I do not let my feelings get in the way of discovering God's End Time purposes. What I am learning confronts me every time I gain an expanded understanding of God plans during the Latter Days.

Shalom

PS: - I will not attempt to stop Israel from rebuilding the Temple, nor will I support them to do so because in their future attempt to rebuild the temple, they are acting in their own strength, just like they did when some of the Israelites returned to the land of Canaan in 1948 as God had foretold in Genesis 15:16, some 4,000 years after the birth of Isaac.

End times is not my specialisation - but with Trump positioned to support the rebuild it is a 'now' issue so I speak on that.

My essential message is that believers should not support any initiative to build the third temple.

Any such rebuild and animal sacrifice for sins, denies the Cross, denies the priesthood of all believers, and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit which replaces His presence in temples made by man.

 

[quietthinker]

This is a very ambiguous statement on your part and for me to understand where you are coming from, I would need to know the background of what you are saying.

Now since the title of this thread is simply "Israel", it would seem to me that I had kept to the intended topic for this thread. Jesus in the storyline of Israel is just a blip halfway along at this present moment in Israel's story.

Around the year 2044 AD Jesus will begin to play a much bigger role in Israel's story.

Shalom

You have verified my comments!

 

[Carl Emerson]

You've wandered off focus Carl. You're reverting to the OT narrative at the expense of what Jesus revealed about his Father.

A matter is understood by considering all of Scripture not just the NT.

Here you seem to draw the conversation away from the issue of the Third Temple.

I don't particularly mind discussing other issues but ask that this be done on another thread.

 

[Johann]

Carl, as a supposed teacher, did you not see the reference to the Armageddon judgement as well, in the portion of Luke 14 that I had quoted. That the Jewish attempt to rebuild the temple will be the trigger for the Little Horn to gather an army to go up against God's Temple and His earthly Host, for a last ditched attempt to fulfil the Daniel 8 prophecy before the allotted time span, of the 2,300 years, is completed. That Isaiah 24:21-22 will play out before us at Armageddon for the gathered kings of the earth. Did you not see that Israel will seek the terms of peace from the king judging the gathered kings of the earth as well as Paul's statement in Romans 11:25b-26 that after the fulness of the Gentiles is completed, that all of Israel will be saved.

Have you not read that when God gathers the Israelites to Himself, that He will place/plant them in His fertile field/soil and will teach them on the religion of Israel. Have you not read in Genesis 12:3 the following: -

Genesis 12:3: - 3 I will bless those who bless you,​

And I will curse him who curses you;​

And through you all the families inhabiting my fertile soil shall be blessed."​

where only those who inhabit God's fertile soil/field will be blessed through Abraham's descendants.

In the passage from Luke that I posted, did you not see that Israel will be discarded if Israel has lost it saltiness. A harsh judgement if Israel does not stand up to be redeemed by God in the Last Generation of time.

Carl, I do not let my feelings get in the way of discovering God's End Time purposes. What I am learning confronts me every time I gain an expanded understanding of God plans during the Latter Days.

Shalom

PS: - I will not attempt to stop Israel from rebuilding the Temple, nor will I support them to do so because in their future attempt to rebuild the temple, they are acting in their own strength, just like they did when some of the Israelites returned to the land of Canaan in 1948 as God had foretold in Genesis 15:16, some 4,000 years after the birth of Isaac.

Well said @Jay Ross!

J.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Well said @Jay Ross!

J.

I stay within the domain of what I feel confident to share with others.

End times is riddled with speculation and I am not about to join the circus.

Not everyone agrees with the proposed interpretation of Luke 14.

I was asked to start a bible study - it was not my idea.

I prefer to stay within the domain of what we need to know concerning what we see before us currently.

The temple institute has minted a temple coin in honour of Trump and some expect him to convert to Judaism.

 

[quietthinker]

A matter is understood by considering all of Scripture not just the NT.

Here you seem to draw the conversation away from the issue of the Third Temple.

I don't particularly mind discussing other issues but ask that this be done on another thread.

When it comes to understanding the Character of God, Jesus is the definitive last word on the matter. He is the only eyewitness of the Father. Hebrews 1 is clear on that.

Was it not Jesus who led the Hebrews through the wilderness? Was it not Jesus who inspired the Prophets? Was it not Jesus who created all things? Surely he must trump every other representative, be it Prophet or King.

Regarding the third temple. I find it an irrelevancy. It becomes a highlight for those who misunderstand God's objective and subsequently misinterpret the Prophecies.

 

[Carl Emerson]

When it comes to understanding the Character of God, Jesus is the definitive last word on the matter. He is the only eyewitness of the Father. Hebrews 1 is clear on that.

Was it not Jesus who led the Hebrews through the wilderness? Was it not Jesus who inspired the Prophets? Was it not Jesus who created all things? Surely he must trump every other representative, be it Prophet or King.

Regarding the third temple. I find it an irrelevancy. It becomes a highlight for those who misunderstand God's objective and subsequently misinterpret the Prophecies.

Heb 1 also says "Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son..."

So it is a 'both and' issue, our record of His Word through the Prophets is equal to the record of the Son's Words.

If you think the Third Temple is irrelevant - fine, thanks for your opinion.

 

[quietthinker]

Heb 1 also says "Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son..."

So it is a 'both and' issue, our record of His Word through the Prophets is equal to the record of the Son's Words.

If you think the Third Temple is irrelevant - fine, thanks for your opinion.

If we use the OT Prophets to trump the things Jesus said/ revealed about his Father we do the very thing that Satan attempted with Jesus in the wilderness......and what is that? ..... if it is not to satisfy our ego and get one up on the other.....and dare I say it, misrepresent if not to deceive?

Have you considered, 'Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son..' because the Prophets had a dim view?
...but now, (Matt. 4:15-17)
“Land of Zebulun and land of Naphtali, the way of the sea, beyond the Jordan, Galilee of the nations— the people sitting in darkness have seen a great light, and those sitting in the region and shadow of death, on them a light has dawned...' is speaking as much to us as it is to them.

 

[Carl Emerson]

If we use the OT Prophets to trump the things Jesus said/ revealed about his Father we do the very thing that Satan attempted with Jesus in the wilderness......and what is that? ..... if it is not to satisfy our ego and get one up on the other.....and dare I say it, misrepresent if not to deceive?

Have you considered, 'Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son..' because the Prophets had a dim view?
...but now, (Matt. 4:15-17)
“Land of Zebulun and land of Naphtali, the way of the sea, beyond the Jordan, Galilee of the nations— the people sitting in darkness have seen a great light, and those sitting in the region and shadow of death, on them a light has dawned...' is speaking as much to us as it is to them.

You seem to be presenting the OT as somehow less inspired. Thanks for your opinion.

 

[quietthinker]

You seem to be presenting the OT as somehow less inspired. Thanks for your opinion.

Oh no Carl, not less inspired, just less understanding and clearly they did not join the dots as did Jesus.
The law (men's favourite) say's, 'don't commit adultery' but not committing adultery does not ensure a happy marriage.
Jesus say's 'love as I have loved you'. In other words, give your life for the other.

Vision see's the greater picture. Jesus had greater vision and presented it.

The fact that we (men) don't always understand well and happily short change Jesus with our 'superior' way of explaining things does not mean our explanations have better insight.

There are numerous examples from the Prophets regarding this. Jonah, Elijah and Job come to mind.

 

[Truth7t7]

End times is not my specialisation - but with Trump positioned to support the rebuild it is a 'now' issue so I speak on that.

My essential message is that believers should not support any initiative to build the third temple.

Any such rebuild and animal sacrifice for sins, denies the Cross, denies the priesthood of all believers, and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit which replaces His presence in temples made by man.

Yes I believe a 3rd temple will be built on the holy Muslim site at the dome of the rock and I believe this will be the catalyst to draw Muslim armies to surround Jerusalem in the time of the gentiles to trample Jerusalem under foot

I believe the future literal human man Paul's (Man Of Sin) John's (The Beast) will be revealed at this time in Jerusalem trying to bring peace to the situation, the Bible states he will be a (King/Ruler) of (Hebrew/Jewish) decent, sorta like a Netanyahu?

I also believe the Jews are flattering Trump as the savior sent by God to build the temple, and ex Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee will be Trumps ambassador to Israel, interesting to say the least

 

[Carl Emerson]

Yes I believe a 3rd temple will be built on the holy Muslim site at the dome of the rock and I believe this will be the catalyst to draw Muslim armies to surround Jerusalem in the time of the gentiles to trample Jerusalem under foot

I believe the future literal human man Paul's (Man Of Sin) John's (The Beast) will be revealed at this time in Jerusalem trying to bring peace to the situation, the Bible states he will be a (King/Ruler) of (Hebrew/Jewish) decent, sorta like a Netanyahu?

I also believe the Jews are flattering Trump as the savior sent by God to build the temple, and ex Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee will be Trumps ambassador to Israel, interesting to say the least

What would this say about Trumps "Christianity" if he indeed becomes their 'Cyrus' ???

 

[Carl Emerson]

What would this say about Trumps "Christianity" if he indeed becomes their 'Cyrus' ???

By the way the 'dome of the rock' is also considered Holy to Judaism.

I notice that Aqsa Mosque is about 200 yards away from the 'dome'

 

[Truth7t7]

What would this say about Trumps "Christianity" if he indeed becomes their 'Cyrus' ???

I didn't vote for a Pastor or Christian leader of America in Donald J. Trump

If Trump moves to help build the 3rd temple he would assist in the world armies surrounding Jerusalem resulting in the revealing of Paul's (Man Of Sin) John's (The Beast) as previously explained

The events taking place presently in the middle east are of biblical proportion, and that's a conservative opinion

 

[Jack]

Hebrews 1:8-10
8 But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions."10 And: "You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands.

Jesus is God!