Is your faith your own? - Is "the Faith" prescribed by a human institution?

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Brakelite

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Thank you for the question.

Paul teaches that the Blood of Jesus, has redeemed our sin, and washed us clean.
In other words........ as the song says..

"What can wash away my SIN"........NOTHING but the BLOOD of JESUS"...

Now, The issue for an unbeliever is........."SIN"...........Its their SIN that has separated them from GOD's Holy Spirit. = (Himself)., as "God is A Spirit".. the "Holy Spirit".
So, God wrapped Himself in human flesh, born of a Virgin and sacrificed JESUS the "God man" on the Cross for the Sin of the world, one believer at a time.

Now, why does Paul refer to the "resurrection" ?

A.) Its because .....the Hope of Salvation......the Hope of Eternal life.... the Hope of rejoining God Spiritually as born again,, rests on Jesus's SINLESS Sacrifice. on THE Cross.........and so, its the Resurrection Of Jesus That PROVES that Jesus is the Messiah, the Savior, the Son of God.

Here is the verse.

""""Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope = by the resurrection of Jesus The Christ... from the Dead..""

See that verse?
That verse is explaining that our FAITH, our HOPE.. our Salvation.... our Eternal Life, is based on the REALITY that Jesus rose from the DEAD, as if there is no resurrection, then The Cross of Christ, is meaningless and Salvation, does not exist.
The RESURRECTION is the PROOF of CHRISTianty, and this is our HOPE.... as the Resurrection of Jesus, is why WE HOPE, and Have Hope.


Reader,
If there is no Resurrection that Proves that Jesus's Sacrifice is God's Saving Grace for "all who believe" then we'd all still be in our sin, damned and Hell bound., with no solution.
In other words, the sin problem wasn't finished at the cross. You live in Israel. I am sure you must be familiar with the OT services of the sanctuary and the associated rituals, sacrifices, feasts etc right? If all that yearly program was a precursor or type of the gospel for Israel, pointing to Christ, (which it absolutely was), then why all the intricate, involved, and strictly observed instructions for the sprinkling of blood, the prayers, the incense etc etc inside the sanctuary after the sacrifice was made? Clearly the sacrifice by itself, though essential to the process, (without the shedding of blood there is no remission), wasn't all there is to salvation. So when Christ said, "it is finished", He wasn't saying that His sacrifice entailed the sum total of the gospel story.
Relative to all that, the HIGH PRIEST was absolutely indispensable to the salvation. Was Jesus a High Priest when He died?
 

LittleTuneAlright

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How can anything be mine when everything belongs to Him?

I still struggle with this, dont get me wrong.. and I still cry.. but when I fully realise that these tears ain't mine, then surely Eternal Life will be mine... errr I mean His ... oh no there I go again.... lol

what does lasting faith look like?

Ahhh...music...blues...

 
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Brakelite

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In other words, the sin problem wasn't finished at the cross. You live in Israel. I am sure you must be familiar with the OT services of the sanctuary and the associated rituals, sacrifices, feasts etc right? If all that yearly program was a precursor or type of the gospel for Israel, pointing to Christ, (which it absolutely was), then why all the intricate, involved, and strictly observed instructions for the sprinkling of blood, the prayers, the incense etc etc inside the sanctuary after the sacrifice was made? Clearly the sacrifice by itself, though essential to the process, (without the shedding of blood there is no remission), wasn't all there is to salvation. So when Christ said, "it is finished", He wasn't saying that His sacrifice entailed the sum total of the gospel story.
Relative to all that, the HIGH PRIEST was absolutely indispensable to the salvation. Was Jesus a High Priest when He died?
Further to this, there was no possible remedy to the sin problem for Israel under the old covenant without the sanctuary. The vast majority of Christianity have little appreciation or understanding, and neither do they care, that there is no possible remedy to the sin problem under the new covenant without a sanctuary either.
That most of them are more interested in an old covenant temple they believe is yet to come is the greatest of ironies, and the darkest of deceptions.

“1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; 2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man. 3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer. 4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law: 5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount. ”
Hebrews 8:1-5 KJV
Unfeigned Bible

Here is revealed the sanctuary of the new covenant. The sanctuary of the first covenant was pitched by man, built by Moses; this is pitched by the Lord, not by man. In that sanctuary the earthly priests performed their service; in this, Christ, our great High Priest, ministers at God's right hand. One sanctuary was on earth, the other is in heaven.

To study more closely the plan now in operation for the sons of men, read Hebrews 4:14 to 10:39.
 

Brakelite

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Why complicate things?
The faith of a little child should be sufficient to understand.

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Wasn't me who set the rules and the system. Yes, the faith of a little child is essential, but faith in what? Seems many have faith in all manner of different things, all of which are wrong and misunderstood. Hence these forums. The little child can have faith, sure, but it must be in reality. God wants us to know Him. You have often railed against those beliefs, often child like beliefs, that have no foundation in reality. That's why when getting to know Who God is that we may believe in Him, it is essential, even salvational, that we must know what He is like. His character. Who and what He is. Most presume, on the basis of a few misconstrued texts, all manner of things about God and how He works on behalf of man, which is why it is necessary to follow the pattern laid down of old. Not the new dispensational rapture Israel temple nonsense that so many use as a sign post to the second coming when make God look like an inept inconsistent unjust arbitrary dictator.
The entire debacle between Christ and Satan had its foundation in Lucifer's lies concerning the character of God. Those lies are still believed by 90% of the church. Does that mean they can claim they know God? No. It doesn't. They don't know Him. Which again is why we need to base our understanding on the whole of scripture, and not simply, "a child like faith".
“Thy way, O God, is in the sanctuary: who is so great a God as our God? ”
Psalms 77:13 KJV

“Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein. ”
Jeremiah 6:16 KJV

The way of salvation isn't complicated, it can be followed by a child, but it needs to be understood correctly, and taught to children in truth, and they will accept it. Many here may have once been taught the gospel as children, and accepted it as such. But they've subsequently been taught error, and they not longer understand truth as it is in Christ.

“6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, 7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. ”
Revelation 14:6-7 KJV

Using the sanctuary as the foundation, we can know where we are in the stream of time, and come to know and appreciate God and His Christ in truth. Judgement is talking place now in heaven, so when Jesus comes to take His people home, the angels who gather the harvest are satisfied that who they are gathering together are the real deal. Time is short, and the prime focus for us all now ought to be getting to know our Saviour and sharing what we know of God's love, mercy and justice with the world. But in truth. Not with the threat of eternal hellfire. Not with the false promises of a rapture. Not with the nonsense of a temple built in opposition to the gospel as being prophetically necessary.
Thy way O Lord is in the sanctuary. The sanctuary we look to is in heaven where Jesus is interceding on our behalf. What He is doing and about to do there is a reflection of the true character of God.

Ellen White in her last paragraph of The Great Controversy, wrote...
The great controversy is ended. Sin and sinners are no more. The entire universe is clean. One pulse of harmony and gladness beats through the vast creation. From Him Who created all, flow life and light and gladness, throughout the realms of illimitable space. From the minutest atom to the greatest world, all things, animate and inanimate, in their unshadowed beauty and perfect joy, declare that God is love.
 

St. SteVen

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The entire debacle between Christ and Satan had its foundation in Lucifer's lies concerning the character of God. Those lies are still believed by 90% of the church. Does that mean they can claim they know God? No. It doesn't. They don't know Him. Which again is why we need to base our understanding on the whole of scripture, and not simply, "a child like faith".
Are you saying that we can't be saved by a stranger?
Who really knows God completely anyway?

Salvation is in the savior, not in the saved. IMHO

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Brakelite

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Salvation is in the savior, not in the saved. IMHO
Or in the unsaved, so yes, agreed, which is why I wonder why ask this...
Are you saying that we can't be saved by a stranger?
Strangers, backslidden friends, even talking donkeys can say things that convict us of our need of Jesus. But they aren't saving us.
 
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BarneyFife

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Are you saying that we can't be saved by a stranger?
Who really knows God completely anyway?

John 17:3 — “And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent."

Are you saying that the less we know about God, the better? (rhetorical question, right?)

:p
 

Brakelite

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John 17:3 — “And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent."

Are you saying that the less we know about God, the better? (rhetorical question, right?)

:p
Blessed are they that hungry and thirst after righteousness, for they shall be filled.

“23 Thus saith the LORD, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches: 24 But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD. ”
Jeremiah 9:23-24 KJV
 
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Brakelite

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For ever, O Lord, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89.
The Word of God covers a period of history reaching from the Creation to the coming of the Son of man in the clouds of heaven. Yea, more, it carries the mind forward to the future life, and opens before it the glories of Paradise restored. Through all these centuries the truth of God has remained the same. That which was truth in the beginning is truth now. Although new and important truths appropriate for succeeding generations have been opened to the understanding, the present revealings do not contradict those of the past. Every new truth understood only makes more significant the old.14
Commencing with the Fall, down through the patriarchal and Jewish ages even to the present time, there has been a gradual unfolding of the purposes of God in the plan of redemption. Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Moses understood the gospel through Christ; they looked for the salvation of the race through man’s substitute and surety. These holy men of old held communion with the Saviour who was to come to our world in human flesh, and some of them talked with Christ and heavenly angels face to face, as a man talks with his friend.15
As time has rolled on from Creation and the cross of Calvary, as prophecy has been and is still fulfilling, light and knowledge have greatly increased.... In the life and death of Christ, a light flashes back upon the past, giving significance to the whole Jewish economy, and making of the old and the new dispensations a complete whole. Nothing that God has ordained in the plan of redemption can be dispensed with. It is the working out of the divine will in the salvation of man.16
All the truths of revelation are of value to us, and in contemplating things of eternal interest, we shall gain true perceptions of the character of God.... The entire character will be elevated and transformed. The soul will be brought into harmony with Heaven
 

St. SteVen

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St. SteVen said:
Are you saying that we can't be saved by a stranger?
Strangers, backslidden friends, even talking donkeys can say things that convict us of our need of Jesus. But they aren't saving us.
My point is that in the same way a stranger can jump from a bridge to rescue a drowning victim in the waters below,
God can save us when we have no knowledge of who He is. Even an atheist can be saved by God.

[
 
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St. SteVen

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St. SteVen said:
Are you saying that we can't be saved by a stranger?
Who really knows God completely anyway?
John 17:3 — “And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent."

Are you saying that the less we know about God, the better? (rhetorical question, right?)
Knowing COMPLETELY "the only true God, and Jesus Christ" is certainly not a requirement for a renewed relationship with God. (salvation)

I think the need to surrender our lives to Him is paramount to a renewed relationship with God. (salvation)
At that point we know less about Him than we will gain over time. The PROCESS of salvation. (transformation)

In my view, salvation is not a singular thing. It has many components and workings.

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Brakelite

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My point is that in the same way a stranger can jump from a bridge to rescue a drowning victim in the waters below,
I've seen that analogy before. It doesn't necessarily work. I spent a number of years in surf Life saving. Drowning people don't always welcome the help you offer. They often are panicking and resist you, punching and wrestling to get free, or fighting to climb on top of you as if you are a flotation device. We are taught techniques to overcome that kind of resistance, but still...

the reality of life is that God will not save anyone against their will. He may enter into our lives unexpectedly, surprisingly, and at times we may be immensely uncomfortable with, challenging or worldview, convicting off sin, righteousness, and judgement, but it is then we will have a choice. And sometimes it may take years for us to make that choice. But God is not willing that anyone should perish, but that all come to repentance. So He will be persistent until such time as all the approaches by the holy Spirit are spurned and resisted. Then He will declare the close of man's probation, and fallen man, those who refuse to repent but have chosen the ways of those world, will be forever lost.

“6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done. 7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book. 8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. 9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God. 10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. 11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. ”
Revelation 22:6-12 KJV
 

St. SteVen

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the reality of life is that God will not save anyone against their will.
That means that the will of humankind can supplant the will of God that all should be saved.
It's not His will that any should perish. He will see to it that all come to salvation. IMHO

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

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St. SteVen

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New topic:


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Brakelite

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That means that the will of humankind can supplant the will of God that all should be saved.
It's not His will that any should perish. He will see to it that all come to salvation. IMHO

Philippians 2:10-11
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.

[
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! ”
Matthew 23:37 KJV
 

AngelicArcher

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I know those who hold faith by institutional standards. Roman Catholic, Fundamentalist Baptist,for the most part. Even a couple of JW's.

Whereas my faith is more organic,if you will. A relationship that has grown from when I was first in church at three years old.
 
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AngelicArcher

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This thread strikes me as being in the same vein as "endless genealogies" (1 Timothy 1:4) that the Bible condemns.

You don't need to know what motivated your faith, separate to what motivated the Holy Spirit to reach you.

The point is not to become more objective, but more relational.
I wouldn't condemn genealogy too quickly.

Paul's opinions are entirely his own as manager of the churches he founded.
He however,does not overcome God's planning.

Genesis 5 genealogies point to Jesus the Messiah.
 

St. SteVen

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“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! ”
Matthew 23:37 KJV
But...

... all Israel will be saved. - Romans 11:26

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