Is your faith your own? - Is "the Faith" prescribed by a human institution?
- Thread starter St. SteVen
- Start date
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This is a follow-up to my topic titled:
Are you saved by faith, or by "the Faith"? Let's discuss both sides.
Discussion questions;
1) Is the basis for your salvation a personal decision to follow God, or to follow the church?
2) If your salvation is in "the Faith", who prescribed what that means?
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Faith vs. "the Faith" - Which one was once delivered?
Are you saved by faith, or by "the Faith"? Let's discuss both sides.
Are we saved by certainty, or by faith? - the mystery of salvation
Discussion questions;
1) Is the basis for your salvation a personal decision to follow God, or to follow the church?
2) If your salvation is in "the Faith", who prescribed what that means?
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David Lamb
Member
When I was converted, I certainly wasn't following a church, whether a local church or a denomination. One result of my conversion was that I realised the "church" I had been brought up in wasn't preaching the gospel as found in the bible. Nobody had ever told me that I was a sinner and needed salvation. A school friend who was a Christian, told me this. Later, I started reading the bible for myself.
Behold
Well-Known Member
A sinner is not saved by faith...
Noone is saved by faith.
So how does it work.?
A.) God saves you.... through your faith.
God saves, based on the finished work of Jesus on the Cross.......everyone who "comes to faith in Christ". = "BELIEVES"
In other words.......Salvation, is Christ on the Cross.........He is your forgiveness, and you eternal life.... and you need to receive this from God.
So, for God to give you what Christ on the Cross has accomplished.......and this is called "the Gift of Salvation".. God requires that you come to Jesus, by FAITH......and God will see that faith in Christ.......in your heart.........and in that instant, He takes what Christ has accomplished, and you receive it as God gives it to you... .as God's "" Gift of Salvation.""
This happens only once., and the end result, one of them, is that all your sin is forgiven.. and then God births your spirit as born again, into HIMSELF........and you become a "new Creation". "in Christ"... "ONE with God".
And this is eternal.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
What was finished on the cross. Something, sure, because Jesus said, it is finished. But He never explained what it was that was finished. So....from the whole of scripture, what was it that was finished, because the way I read scripture, there were certain things specifically connected to our atonement that definitely weren't finished.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
St. SteVen said:
Oh my. Like what?
I view the atonement as a complete and finished work.
Jesus said, "It is finished." What was finished?
BTW: I understand that there are differing views on the atonement.
I just want to understand yours. Thanks.
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Oh my. Like what?
I view the atonement as a complete and finished work.
I wouldn't connect that to the one-time event of the atonement.
Jesus said, "It is finished." What was finished?
BTW: I understand that there are differing views on the atonement.
I just want to understand yours. Thanks.
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Ritajanice
Born-Again
My faith came from God, when he revealed himself to my spirit, when he birthed it by supernatural divine heart revelation...
Spirit gives birth to spirit...I have always understood faith from the heart /spirit...exactly where God made himself known to me, ..not by reading about it....
Once that happened, only then has my faith grown beyond recognition..how can my faith in God grow, without knowing him first in my spirit..
My Living testimony, and belief..
Everyone of us imo understands faith very differently....
Ritajanice
Born-Again
There certainly are.
My understanding of atonement is...it’s because of the death and resurrection of Jesus...that our spirit can become Born Again of “ His” imperishable Living seed.
Jesus Spirit, lives in our spirit, ....that’s why we must be Born Again...then we are reconciled back to the Father...through Jesus.
It’s our spirit that has been reconciled back to God....we live in this old man/ body of sin...we are in the new man, the moment our spirit is birthed.
Without the death and resurrection of Jesus...there would be no reconciliation back to God.
All Glory and Honour goes to the Father and Jesus Name...is above all other names.
His Name reigns...my opinion/ testimony and belief....I’m here to give all Glory to God and his Son.
Behold
Well-Known Member
If you read the account of the Last Supper, you'll find your answer, as Jesus explained what He was about to offer on The Cross, that He did offer, and now is "finished".
Its really just a matter of opening a NT, and doing a bit of sincere study.
Not that hard, but you have to be willing to learn by putting in the TIME.... with the scriptures..., vs, just coming to forums to try to find a way to argue., Reader.
I find it interesting that over a difference of opinion, the other gets accused of having NEVER read the Bible.
What's up with that?
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Behold
Well-Known Member
You missed a few key moments in my response, as you dont read carefully, anything, apparently.
1st, i never said "read the bible' i said "study"........and there is a significant difference between the definitions......"read vs study" and that is not just semantics..
See, Paul told a Real Christian.....to "study (the word) to show yourself approved to God"..... not just read it like its a cereal box.
So, that is not a request, Paul is making.
Next..
When i posted that a Christian needs to Study........i was careful to post "READER" vs, any member's name.
So, i was not targeting a specific member, ......I was only stating what Paul teaches we are to do, and if any " READER " does not., then that is why they post a lot of """"i dont get it... or IMHO.....or i dont understand this""" type of confused Threads and posts on this forum.
As you know., @St. SteVen
Next time you come my way, i would appreciate it if you will take the time to read my post or Thread carefully, vs, just commenting without any real clue.
-Thx
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
No one is fooled by the "Reader" business.
There's enough from your direct response to the previous post you quoted to see that.
And maybe you'd like to offer a claim that you didn't actually accuse @St. SteVen of being a habitually careless reader of posts?
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My point stands.
St. SteVen said:
I find it interesting that over a difference of opinion, the other gets accused of having NEVER read the Bible.
What's up with that?
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Behold
Well-Known Member
Reader....
A.) God saves you.... through your faith, and that is not related to being water baptized, initially.
God saves, based on the finished work of Jesus on the Cross.......everyone who "comes to faith in Christ". = "BELIEVES"
In other words.......Salvation, is Christ on the Cross.........He is your forgiveness, and you eternal life.... and you need to receive this from God.
So, for God to give you what Christ on the Cross has accomplished.......and this is called "the Gift of Salvation".. God requires that you come to Jesus, by FAITH......and God will see that faith in Christ.......in your heart.........and in that instant, He takes what Christ has accomplished, and you receive it as God gives it to you... .as God's "" Gift of Salvation.""
This happens only once., and the end result, one of them, is that all your sin is forgiven.. and then God births your spirit as born again, into HIMSELF........and you become a "new Creation". "in Christ"... "ONE with God".
And this is eternal.
The reason it's eternal, is because the Savior, is Eternal........and its "the Gift of Eternal life" that is given to "all who believe in Jesus".
So, John teaches us that = """" "you can KNOW that you have Eternal life, and this life is >>IN <<God's Son.""""
Reader, did you notice the "IN". ??
So, to have assurance of Eternal Life, is to be "IN" God's Son.
And all the born again are "IN Christ" and that is our assurance that we have eternal life, and eternal life is not temporary.
A.) God saves you.... through your faith, and that is not related to being water baptized, initially.
God saves, based on the finished work of Jesus on the Cross.......everyone who "comes to faith in Christ". = "BELIEVES"
In other words.......Salvation, is Christ on the Cross.........He is your forgiveness, and you eternal life.... and you need to receive this from God.
So, for God to give you what Christ on the Cross has accomplished.......and this is called "the Gift of Salvation".. God requires that you come to Jesus, by FAITH......and God will see that faith in Christ.......in your heart.........and in that instant, He takes what Christ has accomplished, and you receive it as God gives it to you... .as God's "" Gift of Salvation.""
This happens only once., and the end result, one of them, is that all your sin is forgiven.. and then God births your spirit as born again, into HIMSELF........and you become a "new Creation". "in Christ"... "ONE with God".
And this is eternal.
The reason it's eternal, is because the Savior, is Eternal........and its "the Gift of Eternal life" that is given to "all who believe in Jesus".
So, John teaches us that = """" "you can KNOW that you have Eternal life, and this life is >>IN <<God's Son.""""
Reader, did you notice the "IN". ??
So, to have assurance of Eternal Life, is to be "IN" God's Son.
And all the born again are "IN Christ" and that is our assurance that we have eternal life, and eternal life is not temporary.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
The OT sanctuary services were the blueprint for the NT gospel. Every component of the OT sanctuary had its parallel/fulfilment/antitype in the new. The religious year for Israel was the type for the gospel running through the entire gospel dispensation. There was an order in the services and rituals that was repeated in the NT.
We had the baptism of Jesus which took place outside the temple, just as the Laver was outside the Moses' sanctuary.
Jesus was crucified "outside the gate", just as the altar of sacrifice was outside the sanctuary. All the old testament feast days had to have NT spiritual fulfilment. There were 7 feast Days or holy convocations. 3 in the first month, 3 in the 7 th month, and Pentecost in between. The first 3, plus Pentecost, have been and gone. Their fulfilment was described in the gospels and the book of acts. But were not all those feasts necessary for salvation, or was Passover alone sufficient? We know that was not the case. Calvary, the resurrection, and the presentation of first fruits (those that were raised with Christ) before the Father by Christ was all essential. Then came Pentecost when Christ was anointed as High Priest, and the disciples shared in that experience by being filled with the holy Spirit.
But what of the rest of the feasts? The feast of trumpets, and the day of atonement? When did they have their spiritual fulfilment, and was it necessary we benefit from whatever those great solemn events portrayed? The feast of tabernacles was a celebration of victory. That feast always came after the harvest, and was a joyous time of gratitude and acknowledgement of what God had done for Israel. When do you think the spiritual fulfilment of that will be? Is there a harvest yet to come?
I don't believe Passover or its fulfilment at Calvary was the end of the road for those seeking salvation. There was much more to come, and all of them were essential in finding sanctification, true peace and fellowship with God.
But hey, according to some I've never studied these things, so what would I know?
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Brakelite
Well-Known Member
And for @Behold , a question. If the sin problem in your life, that is your forgiveness, reconciliation, atonement etc etc was all finished on the cross, then explain what Paul was meaning when he told the Corinthians that without the resurrection, they would still be in their sins.
1 Cor. 15:17 and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.
If that was true, and scripture cannot be broken, then the sin problem wasn't finished on Calvary, but required something more to be accomplished by the living resurrected Christ at a later time. Therefore, whatever Jesus said was finished as He hung dying on the cross, it could not have been the full atonement because the resurrection, and what came after, was still essential to the process.
That's an interesting point.
Perhaps a bigger question is why we continue to sin after we have renewed our relationship with God.
As I understand it, Jesus paid the death sentence for all of humankind on the cross. A complete work.
His resurrection conquered death itself. He was raised to life.
But perhaps the death and resurrection could be tied together. ???
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Behold
Well-Known Member
Thank you for the question.
Paul teaches that the Blood of Jesus, has redeemed our sin, and washed us clean.
In other words........ as the song says..
"What can wash away my SIN"........NOTHING but the BLOOD of JESUS"...
Now, The issue for an unbeliever is........."SIN"...........Its their SIN that has separated them from GOD's Holy Spirit. = (Himself)., as "God is A Spirit".. the "Holy Spirit".
So, God wrapped Himself in human flesh, born of a Virgin and sacrificed JESUS the "God man" on the Cross for the Sin of the world, one believer at a time.
Now, why does Paul refer to the "resurrection" ?
A.) Its because .....the Hope of Salvation......the Hope of Eternal life.... the Hope of rejoining God Spiritually as born again,, rests on Jesus's SINLESS Sacrifice. on THE Cross.........and so, its the Resurrection Of Jesus That PROVES that Jesus is the Messiah, the Savior, the Son of God.
Here is the verse.
""""Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope = by the resurrection of Jesus The Christ... from the Dead..""
See that verse?
That verse is explaining that our FAITH, our HOPE.. our Salvation.... our Eternal Life, is based on the REALITY that Jesus rose from the DEAD, as if there is no resurrection, then The Cross of Christ, is meaningless and Salvation, does not exist.
The RESURRECTION is the PROOF of CHRISTianty, and this is our HOPE.... as the Resurrection of Jesus, is why WE HOPE, and Have Hope.
Reader,
If there is no Resurrection that Proves that Jesus's Sacrifice is God's Saving Grace for "all who believe" then we'd all still be in our sin, damned and Hell bound., with no solution.
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