Is Total Victory over Sin Possible?

[Lambano]

Brother Amadeus, that begs the question, "Why aren't we better than we really are?"

We're not even as good as we tell the world we are. Or as good as we tell ourselves we are.

 

[Lambano]

Is it a lack of self-effort? Or a lack of God's grace? Both?

 

[Behold]

God created Salvation as the ultimate "sinlessness".

How?

By birthing you spiritually as a "new Creation"... into the Kingdom of God., while you still remain in a human body.

One of the REVELATIONs regarding : "who are you in Christ".. is the understanding of Colossians 2:11, that describes the separation that occurs when God birth's your spirit , as born again.. into Himself., as "The righteousness of God, in Christ".

This parting, this separation from the "old man of sin" who is now "crucified with Christ"... is a eternal reality.
What is divided is the "new creation in Christ" from the "old man of sin"...
This is why Paul tells us......>"how can we live any longer in sin".. when in fact, we are spiritually born again OUT of the "old man of sin", who is now defined as "reckon him DEAD". because he is "crucified with Christ".

How do you wrap your head around this?

Its very simple.

The born again SPIRIT, is the "new Creation in Christ".. is the Son/Daughter of God, and that is not your mind or your body.

This is the "CHRISTian"........who is become "made righteous", who is the "new Creation".. born ... AGAIN.

 

[Hobie]

It has long been the understanding of Reformed/Protestant theology that Jesus toughened the requirements of Torah, such that lust in the heart is to God the same as physically committing adultery and hatred for another is to God the same as physically committing murder in the first degree, so that we would realize our total inability to be righteous before God and thus seek His grace.

You see the internal contradiction. John tells us immediately preceding the verses you cited ...

8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.

We are told we are unable be righteous, yet we are also exhorted to avoid sin NOW.

We are promised that "when He appears, we will be like Him" (1 John 3:2), which is why I emphasized the future tense of "You will be perfect". One of my theology books called it "partially-realized eschatology". Caught between the "now" and the "not yet".

True, we all have sinned but now Christ calls us as He did to the young woman caught in adultery, "go and sin no more".

John 8:11
She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

If we turn our lives over to Christ we too can overcome and come boldly before the throne and be perfect before the Father, and thats what Christ asks..

Revelation 2:7
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

 

[MA2444]

Reader,

Paul teaches that "our old man of sin is crucified with Christ" and we are to reckon our "sin nature" dead.
And that we dont live IN IT any longer, as how can we live in what is DEAD ??

So, when you find a "confessing sin" Christian, you find someone who has no knowledge of The Cross, and are unable to believe that they are "made righteous", based ONLY on The Cross.

This means that in their SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS, their carnal mindedness.... they BELIEVE that they have a list of "do's, and don't do's" that they believe if they keep perfectly and then they can keep from losing their salvation.,..(maybe)..
This is a diaper baby Christian, .. a Hebrews 6:1 bottle baby, who has yet to understand even the most basic comprehension of what it means to have become "The righteousness of God in Christ" as "made righteous".. as a "new Creation".. = "one with God".. "in Christ".

I can't disagree with that. Jesus's shedding of blood on the cross did bring the victory for the Lord and we are instructed to occupy and enforce the victory until He comes again.

It is written, be led by the spirit, and to abide in Him. Only in this way are we able to overcome the flesh and not stumble. The very moment that we decide in our mind, yes I will do this this way...we have turned our back to the Lord and are not being led by the spirit so are not abiding in Him. So we're living for the carnal man again...

Carnal man mind can not be led by the spirit so therefore can not overcome sin.

But when we are connected with God in spirit and in truth and our Lord who we have given our life to makes the decisions (because we have consulted Him!), then it may be said that we abide in Him and so are free from sin in that moment.

So you might say, in Christ we can overcome sin and walk perfectly because we are not alone.

And there is no way to be sinless at all within the carnal man. So it's as simple as that.

 

[amadeus]

Brother Amadeus, that begs the question, "Why aren't we better than we really are?"

'Tis the season on the Liturgical Calendar to contemplate who I am and where I fall short.

Amen, my friend! Amen!

 

[Earburner]

Is it a lack of self-effort? Or a lack of God's grace? Both?

None of the above!
It's a lack of understanding!!

From post #17:
"Did you know that being sin-LESS is not the same as being sin-FREE?
1. One is a state of being.
2. The other is the act of doing.

By which of the above enabled you to become a NEW creature [creation] in Christ Jesus?"

 

[Earburner]

True, we all have sinned but now Christ calls us as He did to the young woman caught in adultery, "go and sin no more".

John 8:11
She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

If we turn our lives over to Christ we too can overcome and come boldly before the throne and be perfect before the Father, and thats what Christ asks..

Revelation 2:7
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

When you are "sin-FREE", please let us all know when you have finally sinned no more.

 

[Brakelite]

That's an interesting mistranslation. In the Greek it reads, Ἔσεσθε οὖν ὑμεῖς τέλειοι". "Esesthe" is the future indicative of "to be", not the imperative case. It literally reads, "You WILL be perfect" (when you love your enemies like God does).

But not so fast...

The LXX versions of the 10 commandments are also written in the future indicative case. You see it in the English: "You WILL have no other gods before me". "You WILL not murder". "You SHALL not commit adultery". (The industry standards' bodies I'm on define "SHALL" as a keyword indicting that the statement is normative for compliance to the spec. I wonder if they intentionally chose to echo the KJV language of the 10 Commandments?) So, the KJV translators may have picked up on that echo when they translated Matthew 5:48 as an imperative.

When My Spirit works within you doing when My good pleasure, and you are being conformed into the image of Christ, then you shall not murder. Then you shall not kill. Then you shalt not commit adultery. Then you will love God with all your heart, soul and mind. Then you will love your neighbour as youself. The commandments when looked at through faith, become promises.

 

[Brakelite]

Is it a lack of self-effort? Or a lack of God's grace? Both?

Good questions. Is God's grace powerless in the face of sin?

 

[Brakelite]

Good questions. Is God's grace powerless in the face of sin?

On that note, is it even God's will that we forsake all sin? If it is, then why not? If it isn't, then of what use is repentance?

 

[Lambano]

On that note, is it even God's will that we forsake all sin? If it is, then why not? If it isn't, then of what use is repentance?

The paradox of God's sovereignty and Man's responsibility.

 

[Lambano]

When My Spirit works within you doing when My good pleasure, and you are being conformed into the image of Christ, then you shall not murder. Then you shall not kill. Then you shalt not commit adultery. Then you will love God with all your heart, soul and mind. Then you will love your neighbour as youself. The commandments when looked at through faith, become promises.

And yet I look around, and it's not happening that way. "What, then? Are we any better than they?" (Romans 3:9a)

This one will never get posted in the "Encouraging Verses" thread - but I'm glad the Bible shows us this:

 

[Lambano]

When you are "sin-FREE", please let us all know when you have finally sinned no more.

You said out loud what I was thinking - and trying hard NOT to say.

 

[Lambano]

True, we all have sinned but now Christ calls us as He did to the young woman caught in adultery, "go and sin no more".

It's the implementation details that are problematic.

 

[Lambano]

I'm a little intrigued by Galatians 5:16. A handful of people here have testified to have walked "in" (or "by") "the Spirit" for an extended (but finite!) period of time. For those like me who do not have any of the visible "sign gifts", the way it was described sounded like an altered state of consciousness. Curious.

(And then they get excoriated by everyone. There's always a price to pay.)

 

[Earburner]

On that note, is it even God's will that we forsake all sin? If it is, then why not? If it isn't, then of what use is repentance?

There are two forms of repentance, but only one form is acceptable to God, for Him to give the Gift of His salvation.
1. Metanoia- to have a change of mind. (repentance from sin).
2. Metanoeo- to have another mind.
(repentance towards God).

Clue: John 14
[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
1 Cor. 2
[16] For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

 

[mailmandan]

When you are "sin-FREE", please let us all know when you have finally sinned no more.

In regard to John 8:11, Jesus told the woman caught in adultery to "go and sin no more." Jesus was telling the woman to go and leave her life of sin, namely, she had been practicing adultery. Also, Jesus cannot compromise his perfect holy standard, so of course He is not going to say, "go and just sin a little bit." PERFECTION is where the Lord's bar is set and NONE of us have cleared that bar. (Ecclesiastes 7:20; Romans 3:10-12; 23) Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self-righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)

 

[Brakelite]

In regard to John 8:11, Jesus told the woman caught in adultery to "go and sin no more." Jesus was telling the woman to go and leave her life of sin, namely, she had been practicing adultery. Also, Jesus cannot compromise his perfect holy standard, so of course He is not going to say, "go and just sin a little bit." PERFECTION is where the Lord's bar is set and NONE of us have cleared that bar. (Ecclesiastes 7:20; Romans 3:10-12; 23) Those who believe they live a sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) are suffering from a terminal case of self-righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)

Agree. However, the fact that none of us could claim to have attained to such perfection, or should we make such a claim even if we think we have attained, doesn't render the promises of God void.
"I can do all things through Christ Who strengthens me".
"With man this is impossible. With God, all things are possible".
We live by faith. I believe we can overcome all sin. My faith tells me that the commandments of God are promises. "You shall not commit adultery... You shall not kill... You shall not steal... You shall... You shall...". Promises.


Despite the fact that I know I haven't. But my faith tells me it is not only possible, but because it is the will of God, inevitable.
If anyone believes they will never overcome sin, then "according to their faith so it will be".

 

[Dan Clarkston]

When you are "sin-FREE", please let us all know

Either you are not aware of 1 John 1:9 or choose to believe it's a lie.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness.

What part of ALL exactly where you having a hard time understanding???

Of course it does not mean it's not possible one could sin at some point in the future... but if one humbly asks the Lord to forgive them of their sins as they confess their sins before the Lord... they are in fact sin free at that point in time... and they make no provisions for the flesh to keep living in sin (Romans 13:14)

Here's another one for carnal mind folks with religious spirits to try and wrap their blinds eyes around...

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

This is speaking of walking in the Spirit not fulfilling the lusts of the flesh and the sins being cleansed are mistakes in falling short of God's literal absolute perfection... things like spilling your ice tea at dinner, dropping something on the floor, or forgetting to do something as this is not talking about walking in the light while engaging in sinful behavior.

Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

It's not a matter of trying to earn salvation thru good works... It's a matter of being obedient verses being disobedient! God desires for people to WANT to be with Him and one cannot willingly and knowing engage in sinful behavior and be with Him... one is either living after the flesh or the Holy Spirit.

Those that accept the calling of the Lord and become new creatures in Christ Jesus abiding in Him doing good works by the power of the Holy Spirit within as the Lord leads... these are true children of God.

Those claiming to be saved not walking in obedience have rejected the ordination and calling of the Lord and are the children of disobedience who refuse to put on the new man and walk in newness of life to stop being servants of sin...

Colossians 3:5-9
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Ephesians 4:24
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Romans 13:14
But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Hebrews 9:14
How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Romans 6:4-6
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Colossians 3:5,6
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

As these scripture references indicate, those not accepting the calling of the Lord to be led by the Holy Ghost into walking after the new man are in disobedience... which will NOT end well for them unless they repent of their sin and get with the Lord's game plan!

But... the religious, carnal minded followers of false doctrine are gonna continue to scoff