Is this place overwhelming just the typical run of the mill conservative Christians who ignore science and biblical scholarship?

[Ronald David Bruno]

I saw all this as you did too but here is @Skovand in here with all of other Christians who may not see the world as he does . I see this as a chance to influence our fellow bother and newly posting member or we can berate him and talk down to him and be sure he bounces to a new forum destination . At least we can attempt civil conversation , can't we ? I believe the Lord has been dealing with me on my issues in this regard . I had a dream this month , here it is .

I am outside and Dad is trimming grass with the string trimmer. I observe his work for a few minutes and think he is being too cautious with his trimming so I take the trimmer from him and start whacking the grass and I accidently cut down a small fruit tree and I think well it was not even connected to the root. Dad then points out to me, yes the tree was connected to the root even if it was a small amount that was connected it was still a connection. I then regret my haste with the trimming I was doing.

My "Dad " in this dream is God and here I am thinking I can do God's work trimming away the unneeded people in my life but what I do is eliminate people that are part of the vine , the fruit tree connected to the root .

I am retired and devote many hours to many confused and lost souls and usually get nowhere with them, especially one's who are of the Darwinian Evolution ilk. Still, I plant a seed, maybe make an attempt to overcome objections, reason with them and then brush the dirt off my sandals and move on.
Seven wise men can try to witness and minister to one person who remains adamant and argues his case with all of them, claiming to be wiser, but foolish. When someone starts out friendly, curious, polite, humble and lost, I'll go the whole nine yards with them. But anyone who starts a thread with a repulsive insulting query deserves a hard rebuke. In his mind, we are all in an uneducated cesspool - just like all the Hollywood elites, Biden, Hillary who stated we are deplorables and garbage!
But I've had conversations with this guy before about our origins. He has been around for a couple years, though does not post too often. He's young, a working man who really doesn't have much interest, since in over two years, he only has logged 100 posts. So his door is not open. He is just another pissed off Trump hater who is venting now. This wasn't really an introductory query, it was an assessment and a vial attack. "I'll get back at them!"
He's not interested in the gospel. He is convinced all roads lead to Heaven. And the mushroom on his head... oh brother. My rebuke was appropriate.

 

[Ritajanice]

I believe all of this, as it came by divine heart revelation...that’s as far as I’ve got, reading the Old Testament.

Genesis
Chapter 1​

Bible Options | + Text Size —

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
13And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
20And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
21And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it wasgood.
22And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
23And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
24And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
31And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

 

[Skovand]

Of course, one can certainly teach it....but..................fill in the blanks.

Entire theological arguments spanning several different concepts by dozens and dozens of biblical scholars spanning ages. Just look up some basic Christian arguments about concordism vs accomondationism and that is the doorway to begin this discussion.

 

[GodsGrace]

So it’s not a YouTube video. It’s not some amateurs. It’s three biblical scholars who all have phds and two of them were professors of theology. It’s an hour long podcast discussing several views, not just their own, but several different views that Jewish sects have all held about god written about in writings like Talmuds and midrashs and part of that discussion is about two books one by a fourth biblical scholar. In those views you hear of some believing God had no body, some believing he had a body make of fiery light, some that he had a body very much like our own. Some believed the body was more manly, some believed it was more feminine, some believed his body had genitalia of both the male and female sex and some believe his body was genderless. In the books, which I’ve also read, along with about a dozen other books on god, there are even more views that was held by ancient Jewish people about god such as god having no body, but could possess plants, people and even rocks and animate them. Some believed that Yahweh was a mountain god and El was a storm deity worshipped by Canaanites and that Jews arose as a sect within Canaanites and overtime the story of Yahweh and the story of El were merged together. Some believed god knew everything and done did not. Some were monotheists, some were polytheists but most were actually a third type called monistic. One sect of Jews even believed El was a giant bird like god and we see some of that in texts such as the spirit hovering above the waters and so on.

My point S,,,,is that I'm not willing to listen to odd things about God and/or Jesus and/or the Holy Spirit.
If this is what you like to do that's fine....I'm not here to judge anybody.
It just seems to me that after MANY YEARS of learning about Christianity -which I believe you've done - you should know this basic stuff by now.
And if you're just curious,,,then that's fine too, but I don't think it's good to post this stuff on a Christian forum where there are many new Christians reading along.

Let's put it this way: I'm a traditional Christian...believer in all the creeds - since they just build on each other - believe in the Trinity, the hypostatic union, and all the rest of it.

It actually hurts my ears to hear odd things about Christianity or about God.

You could call me ignorant and that's OK. I don't really care too much what others think about me.

So I perfectly understand the context of the snippet you read. I did not misunderstand any of it. You highlighted a snippet and tried to weaponize it as some sort of “aha” but it just was not.

I'm not an A HA type of person.
Unless you mean the group.
I do like them.

Which goes back to why I came here. I came here looking for a wide diverse group of Christians. Stoic Christians, messianic Christians, anti Pauline Christians, Christian mystics, and so on.

Then you're going to have to have patience and flush us out.
There are all types here.

I love the Bible. I’ve been studying the Bible for close to 20 years with several years in college going pretty in-depth into it. I’ve read literally hundreds of academic books on it and have listened to thousands of hours of scholarly discussions on it. I was hoping to further expand that in a forum like this.

I don’t expect to change your mind. It takes years of hard work and intense studying to move deeper into the Bible than plain text reading and to escape self imposed echo chambers. I don’t expect 99.99% of yall of doing that. That’s ok. I’m not here to change minds. I’m here to share things I find cool with those who are already in the process of deconstruction and reconstruction. I’m here to leave comments and posts that people like me hears from now, even after I’m not here possibly, comes across and use word searches to track specific discussions. I do it all the time. I sometimes read forums that are almost 20 years old at times and benefit from it greatly.

Gosh S.

I think you forgot to read Matthew 5:3
A little humility wouldn't hurt you.
I like Wm Lane Craig. He never speaks about how intelligent he is.
I'll tell you this: I've been at this 20 years over you and this I've learned for sure......
The more I learn about theology......the more I understand that I know nothing.

I'm not going to deconstruct Christianity just so I could reconstruct it.
I think christianity is just fine the way it was set up to be about 2 thousand years ago by those that knew Jesus or learned from those that did.

I would humbly suggest that you post a thread on something you're interested in....and then wait for replies.
Demeaning others will get you nowhere.
There's always someone smarter than we are.....
This is good to know.

And, maybe no one will be able to live up to your expectations....
Time will tell.

 

[Ritajanice]

Entire theological arguments spanning several different concepts by dozens and dozens of biblical scholars spanning ages. Just look up some basic Christian arguments about concordism vs accomondationism and that is the doorway to begin this discussion.

Sorry my friend..I don’t understand a word of that.with respect, you are far to intellectual for me to understand @Skovand .

For me Jesus is the only way and only God can draw us to him, my friend.

I wish you well on your journey searching for Gods Truth,Brother...May he Bless you also on your travels,

 

[Skovand]

My point S,,,,is that I'm not willing to listen to odd things about God and/or Jesus and/or the Holy Spirit.
If this is what you like to do that's fine....I'm not here to judge anybody.
It just seems to me that after MANY YEARS of learning about Christianity -which I believe you've done - you should know this basic stuff by now.
And if you're just curious,,,then that's fine too, but I don't think it's good to post this stuff on a Christian forum where there are many new Christians reading along.

Let's put it this way: I'm a traditional Christian...believer in all the creeds - since they just build on each other - believe in the Trinity, the hypostatic union, and all the rest of it.

It actually hurts my ears to hear odd things about Christianity or about God.

You could call me ignorant and that's OK. I don't really care too much what others think about me.


I'm not an A HA type of person.
Unless you mean the group.
I do like them.


Then you're going to have to have patience and flush us out.
There are all types here.


Gosh S.

I think you forgot to read Matthew 5:3
A little humility wouldn't hurt you.
I like Wm Lane Craig. He never speaks about how intelligent he is.
I'll tell you this: I've been at this 20 years over you and this I've learned for sure......
The more I learn about theology......the more I understand that I know nothing.

I'm not going to deconstruct Christianity just so I could reconstruct it.
I think christianity is just fine the way it was set up to be about 2 thousand years ago by those that knew Jesus or learned from those that did.

I would humbly suggest that you post a thread on something you're interested in....and then wait for replies.
Demeaning others will get you nowhere.
There's always someone smarter than we are.....
This is good to know.

And, maybe no one will be able to live up to your expectations....
Time will tell.

It’s not odd things. It’s just more than the behind the curve thinking of plain text reading that lacks textual analysis and cultural context. It’s that I have went beyond the kindergarten reading of the Bible. What’s demeaning is reading three sentences out of a hour long discussion and thinking in the fool. Show respect and get it in return.

 

[GodsGrace]

“And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. ”
John 5:37 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

Thanks for the verse Brakelite.
I gave two examples of how God PRESENTED Himself but did not show Himself with a physical body.
Jesus is the incarnation of God Father....that's it.

I also looked up that site you linked.
It seems interesting but I don't know how to use it.
Will keep trying.
I use Biblehub sometimes, or I just type in google some word of the verse I want and it comes up.

 

[Skovand]

Yall want to act like im some idiot ( you should know the basics by now and not believe in odd teachings of God ) and get upset when I return the favor by pointing out the uneducated backwards thinking yall employ thinking you figured something out. Can some meet standard that is trustworthy and influential. Sure. But it’s not going to be from any conservative young earthers anti vaxxers. It’s going to come from decent educated people. Yall are still Christian’s I’m sure. But you are a modern westernized evangelical Christian who rejects science and biblical scholarship.

 

[Ritajanice]

. It’s that I have went beyond the kindergarten reading of the Bible

I completely understand what you’re saying here..Amen!..imo.

 

[GodsGrace]

It’s not odd things. It’s just more than the behind the curve thinking of plain text reading that lacks textual analysis and cultural context. It’s that I have went beyond the kindergarten reading of the Bible. What’s demeaning is reading three sentences out of a hour long discussion and thinking in the fool. Show respect and get it in return.

Where did I disrespect you S?
It's very wonderful that you went beyond the kindergarten level of reading the NT.
I guess some of us are just not up to your level of knowledge.

And, you just got here.
You don't know what I think, or what anyone here thinks.

You know what it means to ASSUME?

 

[Ritajanice]

@Skovand .. I suggest that you stick with the topic, try not to get drawn into the personal stuff..just trying to help you.

 

[Rockerduck]

Yall want to act like im some idiot ( you should know the basics by now and not believe in odd teachings of God ) and get upset when I return the favor by pointing out the uneducated backwards thinking yall employ thinking you figured something out. Can some meet standard that is trustworthy and influential. Sure. But it’s not going to be from any conservative young earthers anti vaxxers. It’s going to come from decent educated people. Yall are still Christian’s I’m sure. But you are a modern westernized evangelical Christian who rejects science and biblical scholarship.

Scientists are detectives. They can only discover what God has created. Scientists don't create anything. I've done a lot of research in my college days. Without the Holy Spirit, Biblical scholarship is like math. The Holy Spirit shows what the scriptures mean. The bible wasn't written to be studied like geography, it was written to show how to reach and learn about our God and Savior Jesus Christ. 90% of born again from above Christians, never read the bible before their conversion. Sure, you can teach a "lukewarm" lesson, but Jesus said to the Church of Sardis,

Revelation 3:15-6 -I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yall want to act like im some idiot

All we have to do is read what you say. We do not need to think anything.. You prove it

 

[Eternally Grateful]

@Skovand .. I suggest that you stick with the topic, try not to get drawn into the personal stuff..just trying to help you.

once again, You are enabling a person who is mocking God and his word.

 

[GodsGrace]

Scientists are detectives. They can only discover what God has created. Scientists don't create anything. I've done a lot of research in my college days. Without the Holy Spirit, Biblical scholarship is like math. The Holy Spirit shows what the scriptures mean. The bible wasn't written to be studied like geography, it was written to show how to reach and learn about our God and Savior Jesus Christ. 90% of born again from above Christians, never read the bible before their conversion. Sure, you can teach a "lukewarm" lesson, but Jesus said to the Church of Sardis,

Revelation 3:15-6 -I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.

Looks like the more we learn, the more it becomes apparent that there MUST be a God out of pure necessity.

The cell.

It's impossible for the cell to have evolved.
It had to be functioning from the very beginning OR IT COULD NOT have done its job!

And WHAT tells it to do what it has to do?
WRITTEN COMMANDS!

It's all just too amazing.
I like James Tour and Stephen Meyer.

 

[Wrangler]

the fact that humans evolved just like any other animal, mushrooms or plant.

Follow the science; there is not one SINGLE example of one life form evolving into another kind of life form. Not one.

Of course, many types of animals adapt to their environment and evolve but remain the same kind of animal, e.g., a different kind of horse. No example of a horse evolving into a butterfly.

 

[ChristinaL]

So I’m just trying to see if I’m wasting my time. I’m getting the feeling by Christian this place is just mostly a cesspool of anti vaxxer, young/old earth anti everything marginalized alt right Christians. Or am I missing the college grad liberal science accepting side of Christianity here? If this place is just mostly Trump flags I can save myself a lot of time by bouncing and finding better places to expend my energy.

No we are just free thinkers who havent been brainwashed by MSM and fake science (including the jabs that not only dont work but are ON RECORD as killing people)

 

[Skovand]

Scientists are detectives. They can only discover what God has created. Scientists don't create anything. I've done a lot of research in my college days. Without the Holy Spirit, Biblical scholarship is like math. The Holy Spirit shows what the scriptures mean. The bible wasn't written to be studied like geography, it was written to show how to reach and learn about our God and Savior Jesus Christ. 90% of born again from above Christians, never read the bible before their conversion. Sure, you can teach a "lukewarm" lesson, but Jesus said to the Church of Sardis,

Revelation 3:15-6 -I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.

I can’t tell is that supposed to be a counter argument against something I’ve stated? The Bible is literature that can be scrutinized and handle the pressure of criticism within and outside of its community. What it’s not is a children’s book written for modern man. It did have an audience and to understand we have to learn to study it in a way that shows respect for those people and culture.

As far as scientists…. Yeah they are natural detective studying what is here. Adding supernatural flair to it changes nothing and just claiming the Holy Ghost is guiding you is no different from me saying the same. I was lead by the Holy Spirit to being a liberal, omnistic Christian naturalist.

 

[Wrangler]

Entire theological arguments spanning several different concepts by dozens and dozens of biblical scholars spanning ages. Just look up some basic Christian arguments about concordism vs accomondationism and that is the doorway to begin this discussion.

Is this a discussion? Seems more like a rant against Christians, free thinkers, freedom fighters and Trump supporters.

Show respect and get it in return.

Says the guy with a dozen posts to the guy with 12,000 posts.

 

[Skovand]

No we are just free thinkers who havent been brainwashed by MSM and fake science (including the jabs that not only dont work but are ON RECORD as killing people)

Yeah….. yall are free thinkers and not deluded by fake science……everyone knows the conservatives are top notch when it comes to intellectual freedom and science lol.