Is there salvation outside the Catholic Church?

[BreadOfLife]

Genesis 17:10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

It required at least one drop of blood.

I think that is a foolish idea, another Protestant invention.

Some DO - but it's NOT a prerequisite.

As I stated earlier - the Covenant with Noah didn't involve blood, And you STILL haven't told be the origins of how the covenant of marriage is a PROTESTANT invention - or how it requires the spilling of blood.

Surely you have an explanation . . .

 

[Grailhunter]

Nice try.

Eph. 5:22-33 assures us that in Christ, marriage is a Covenant.

Thank you, I know the scriptures. That is the chain of command in marriage....Need to look into the history of Christian marriages...interesting topic.

 

[Giuliano]

WHOSE blood was spilled when God made a Covenant with Noah?

Genesis 8:20 And Noah builded an altar unto the Lord; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.
21 And the Lord smelled a sweet savour; and the Lord said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

Next?

 

[Giuliano]

Some DO - but it's NOT a prerequisite.

As I stated earlier - the Covenant with Noah didn't involve blood, And you STILL haven't told be the origins of how the covenant of marriage is a PROTESTANT invention - or how it requires the spilling of blood.

Surely you have an explanation . . .

I just posted Genesis 8:20-21.

Marriage is not a covenant since it doesn't require the shedding of blood.

 

[Giuliano]

Because he is guided by the HOLY SPIRIT to ALL Truth (John 16:12-15).
And the Holy Spirit doesn't screw up . . .

That means the Holy Spirit is the judge, not you. You can't say what the Pope can or cannot say.

 

[Giuliano]

On his DEATHBED.
He didn't convert until he was dying.

Check your history, pal . . .

I know my history. You just proved you do not. You agree with the Protestants who lie and say he was a pagan. He may have lived like a pagan, but he was a catechumen.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Constantine the Great

Constantine was liberal to prodigality, was generous in almsgiving, and adorned the Christian churches magnificently. He paid more attention to literature and art than we might expect from an emperor of this period, although this was partly due to vanity, as is proved by his appreciation of the dedication of literary works to him. It is likely that he practiced the fine arts himself, and he frequently preached to those around him. No doubt he was endowed with a strong religious sense, was sincerely pious, and delighted to be represented in an attitude of prayer, with his eyes raised to heaven. In his palace he had a chapel to which he was fond of retiring, and where he read the Bible and prayed. "Every day", Eusebius tells us, "at a fixed hour he shut himself up in the most secluded part of the palace, as if to assist at the Sacred Mysteries, and there commune with God alone ardently beseeching Him, on bended knees, for his necessities". As a catechumen he was not permitted to assist at the sacred Eucharistic mysteries. He remained a catechumen to the end of his life, but not because he lacked conviction nor because, owing to his passionate disposition, he desired to lead a pagan life. He obeyed as strictly as possible the precepts of Christianity, observing especially the virtue of chastity, which his parents had impressed upon him; he respected celibacy, freed it from legal disadvantages, sought to elevate morality, and punished with great severity the offenses against morals which the pagan worship bad encouraged. He brought up his children as Christians. Thus his life became more and more Christian, and thus gradually turned away from the feeble syncretism which at times he seemed to favour.

 

[Grailhunter]

Actually - YOU need to study your history.

Constantine remained a pagan until he was baptized - on hid DEATHBED.
He was anything BUT a "Christian" Emperor - and therefore, not bound by Christians law.

BOL you are digging yourself a hole! Constantine did get baptized on his death bed, like many of the time they thought that way they would enter heaven with a sin free soul....it was the beliefs of the time. Kind of like...Oh three kings of orient are.....traditions.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Thank you, I know the scriptures. That is the chain of command in marriage....Need to look into the history of Christian marriages...interesting topic.

Actually, it's more than just a "chain of command."

Paul is instructing his readers to make their marriages as foundational as the Church. This is why Christ was always comparing the Church to a Bride and himself as the Groom. Christian marriage is to resemble the Church - and vice versa.

 

[BreadOfLife]

BOL you are digging yourself a hole! Constantine did get baptized on his death bed, like many of the time they thought that way they would enter heaven with a sin free soul....it was the beliefs of the time. Kind of like...Oh three kings of orient are.....traditions.

Digging a hole?
He was a pagan who didn't get baptized until his deathbed. That's what I've been saying all along.

Not sure what you're point is . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

That means the Holy Spirit is the judge, not you. You can't say what the Pope can or cannot say.

Then, if YOU believe that the Holy Spirit is a hypocrite - or that He contradicts Himself - then YOU'VE invented a different god for yourself than the God of Scripture.

Good luck with that . . .

 

[Grailhunter]

Digging a hole?
He was a pagan who didn't get baptized until his deathbed. That's what I've been saying all along.

Not sure what you're point is . . .

That is the problem with people not knowing history. Just sit while they teach you, truth does not come that way, propaganda comes that way.
Ok, so lets see what you know....list the Christian accomplishments of Emperor Constantine.

 

[BreadOfLife]

That is the problem with people not knowing history. Just sit while they teach you, truth does not come that way, propaganda comes that way.
Ok, so lets see what you know....list the Christian accomplishments of Emperor Constantine.

That's a trick question.

He may have done MANY things to advance Christianity - but NOT as a Christian.
His ONLY accomplishment AS a Christian was to be baptized.

 

[Philip James]

Something is afoot when the head of the Jesuits can speak so.

Sounds to me like his unorthodox statements caused an uproar which led to affirmation that what the Church teaches is correct and not his personal musings on Satan...
But yes something is afoot, as Satan seeks to destroy the Church...
The attempt will fail.
And when the Church continues to refuse to embrace the modern amoral and immoral civilization, the hatred od the world for her will be on full display..

You have a dim view of the future.

That depends on whose future you are refferring to:

For a civilization that sacrifices its children by the tens of millions, i have a dim view...

For a civilization that destroys families and glorifies self, I have a dim view..

For a civilization that not just tolerates but celebrates sexual perversion, I have a dim view...

For a civilization that removes Jesus from its schools and govermments, I have a dim view...

For a civilization that has rejected God and His church, I have a dim view...

But for Christ's Church and all men of goodwill who come to our aid as we walk in the footsteps of our Master to His cross...

For these the future is glorious!

Peace be with you!

Christ IS risen!
Alleluia!

 

[Grailhunter]

That's a trick question.

He may have done MANY things to advance Christianity - but NOT as a Christian.
His ONLY accomplishment AS a Christian was to be baptized.

That is because you believe that Baptism is the point of being a Christian, rather than the belief in Christ, being the point of being a Christian.
So let me rephrase the question, what all did he do for Christianity after the battle of Milvian Bridge?

 

[Giuliano]

Then, if YOU believe that the Holy Spirit is a hypocrite - or that He contradicts Himself - then YOU'VE invented a different god for yourself than the God of Scripture.

Good luck with that . . .

No, I'm just giving typical Catholic doctrine to you. If the Pope says ex cathedra something isn't a sin, then it wouldn't be a sin. Who are you or I to question him or the Holy Spirit?

After all, many rules about what was sin and what wasn't in the Old Testament were changed, weren't they? Your priests drink wine in church and sometimes even more outside the church? How about this?

Leviticus 10:8 And the Lord spake unto Aaron, saying,
Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations:

Isaiah 28:7 But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.

From 2007: Drinking and Praying: Proposal Could Tip Irish Priests Over Legal Limit - SPIEGEL ONLINE - International

The job description for a Catholic priest doesn't include a lot of perks -- perhaps one reason that their numbers are shrinking rapidly across the Western world. In Ireland, though, the gig might be further complicated by a new proposal to lower the legal blood alcohol limit for drivers. Priests there are speaking out against the proposal because it could render them legally drunk after performing Mass.

"Perhaps it could be enough for you to fail a drink-driving test," the Rev. Brian D'Arcy, a priest from Enniskillen, told the Irish Times. "I don't like to use the word wine, as it is Christ's blood in the Eucharist -- but it still has all the characteristics of wine when in the blood stream."

Ireland's Road Safety Authority is advocating a reduction in the legal driving limit from the current level 0.08 percent blood alcohol content to 0.05 percent. Government officials in Northern Ireland are pressing for a similar reduction. Priests say the new limit would put them over the legal limit after fulfilling their duties during the Mass, which include drinking all consecrated wine not distributed during communion.

 

[Giuliano]

Sounds to me like his unorthodox statements caused an uproar which led to affirmation that what the Church teaches is correct and not his personal musings on Satan...
But yes something is afoot, as Satan seeks to destroy the Church...
The attempt will fail.
And when the Church continues to refuse to embrace the modern amoral and immoral civilization, the hatred od the world for her will be on full display..

He appears to continue to be on good terms with Pope Francis.

That depends on whose future you are refferring to:

For a civilization that sacrifices its children by the tens of millions, i have a dim view...

For a civilization that destroys families and glorifies self, I have a dim view..

For a civilization that not just tolerates but celebrates sexual perversion, I have a dim view...

For a civilization that removes Jesus from its schools and govermments, I have a dim view...

For a civilization that has rejected God and His church, I have a dim view...

But for Christ's Church and all men of goodwill who come to our aid as we walk in the footsteps of our Master to His cross...

For these the future is glorious!

Peace be with you!

Christ IS risen!
Alleluia!

Your view still looks gloomy to me since it suggests the powers of darkness are greater than the message of Love. Sometimes cultures need to go through dark periods of excessive experimentation so they can see the errors of their ways. I believe evil is transitory. Love is eternal. What is the saying? It's the darkest before the dawn. Consider the wickedness of pagan Rome in the 1st Century. They were ripe for the message of the Gospel.

 

[Philip James]

Your view still looks gloomy to me since it suggests the powers of darkness are greater than the message of Love

Then you misunderstood what I wrote.

Just as 'the powers of darkness' did not triumph over Christ when they nailed Him to the cross,
Neither can they triumph over His Church,
For after crucifixtion.. Glory!

Pax!

 

[Giuliano]

Then you misunderstood what I wrote.

Just as 'the powers of darkness' did not triumph over Christ when they nailed Him to the cross,
Neither can they triumph over His Church,
For after crucifixtion.. Glory!

Pax!

I'll admit you had me a little worried there for a while. Never doubt it for a second. God's side has been winning from the beginning; but sometimes it's hard to see from our human perspective.

 

[BreadOfLife]

That is because you believe that Baptism is the point of being a Christian, rather than the belief in Christ, being the point of being a Christian.
So let me rephrase the question, what all did he do for Christianity after the battle of Milvian Bridge?

He did a lot of things. I'm not sure why you're asking.

He issued the Edict of Milan in 313, which legalized Christianity. He called for the convening of the Council of Nicaea in 325.
Am I supposed to do a blow-by-blow of his life after 312? What is this supposed to accomplish?

 

[BreadOfLife]

No, I'm just giving typical Catholic doctrine to you. If the Pope says ex cathedra something isn't a sin, then it wouldn't be a sin. Who are you or I to question him or the Holy Spirit?

After all, many rules about what was sin and what wasn't in the Old Testament were changed, weren't they? Your priests drink wine in church and sometimes even more outside the church? How about this?

Leviticus 10:8 And the Lord spake unto Aaron, saying,
Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations:

Isaiah 28:7 But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.

From 2007: Drinking and Praying: Proposal Could Tip Irish Priests Over Legal Limit - SPIEGEL ONLINE - International

The job description for a Catholic priest doesn't include a lot of perks -- perhaps one reason that their numbers are shrinking rapidly across the Western world. In Ireland, though, the gig might be further complicated by a new proposal to lower the legal blood alcohol limit for drivers. Priests there are speaking out against the proposal because it could render them legally drunk after performing Mass.

"Perhaps it could be enough for you to fail a drink-driving test," the Rev. Brian D'Arcy, a priest from Enniskillen, told the Irish Times. "I don't like to use the word wine, as it is Christ's blood in the Eucharist -- but it still has all the characteristics of wine when in the blood stream."

Ireland's Road Safety Authority is advocating a reduction in the legal driving limit from the current level 0.08 percent blood alcohol content to 0.05 percent. Government officials in Northern Ireland are pressing for a similar reduction. Priests say the new limit would put them over the legal limit after fulfilling their duties during the Mass, which include drinking all consecrated wine not distributed during communion.

Leviticus 10:8 and Isaiah 28:7 aren't condemnations of drinking.
Jesus Himself MADE wine at the Wedding at Cana - and LOTS of it.

What makes you think that drinking is forbidden??
You have a LOT to learn about how to interpret Scripture . . .