Is Sunday-observance the same as Sabbath-rest?

[Wick Stick]

I know there are already a few threads on Saturday/Sabbath stuff, but I had a question that came out of that discussion that seems to deserve separate consideration.

Is Sunday-observance the same as Sabbath-rest?

There seems to be much ballyhoo about Sunday replacing Saturday, but that doesn't make sense if they aren't the same thing. And... I don't think they are. At least they shouldn't be. They certainly didn't start out to be...

The commandment for Sabbath is a worker's right. The Sabbath is for REST. The intention of the commandment seems to be that workers are not worked to death.

The New Testament practice of observing The Lord's Day was NOT for rest. It was for the church's business - the collection and distribution of alms, teaching, prayer, the sharing of testimonies and psalms - all the things that we normally associate with church.

While the day is nominally the day of the Lord's resurrection, history tells us that this timing was also chosen so that the assembly would compete with the pagan practice of Market Day in the New Testament era. The Greeks and Romans assembled at the town center on the 1st day of the week to sell their goods, including the meats-sacrificed-to-idols that Paul addresses at some length. By meeting outside the city, the church assured that its members couldn't attend Market Day and limited the purchase of idol-meat and other items dedicated to demons. It also had the happy side-effect of forcing Christians to give business to each other.

Today, we still have a two-day weekend, with one day being for REST (Saturday) and one for SERVICES (Sunday). And I don't think this represents a replacement of Sabbath-rest, because the two things are not the same.

 

[Wrangler]

Is Sunday-observance the same as Sabbath-rest?

No. What day one worships in fellowship is different from honoring the God of Creation by resting.

I like the idea consistent with the 1C to honor God first, on the first day of the week. And to honor God by resting on the last day of the week - after the work is done.

 

[Pearl]

I was wondering today where in the bible does it say that the sabbath is to be a day of worship. Because Sundays were never a day of rest getting everybody out on time to church meetings, then being rushed of your feet to get dinner ready - which was usually the most complicated meal of the whole week. Not much time for rest on a Sunday in lots of Christian homes.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I know there are already a few threads on Saturday/Sabbath stuff, but I had a question that came out of that discussion that seems to deserve separate consideration.

Is Sunday-observance the same as Sabbath-rest?

No, Sunday observance is a replacement of Sabbath observance of a kind, but not the same thing. Much as Easter became a Spring observance in place of Pagan Spring celebrations, so Sunday worship became a replacement for outmoded Sabbath observance.

The Sabbath, however, had been a respectable, reasonable law of God. The Sunday worship, on the other hand, was a recognition of Christ's resurrection, and certainly not a law.

The exhortation to meet together regularly as Christians was not a commandment, in legal terms, but rather, an encouragement out of wisdom and common sense. If we want to remember things properly, we need to take steps to establish a discipline. Sunday ritual does this.

 

[quietthinker]

No, Sunday observance is a replacement of Sabbath observance of a kind, but not the same thing. Much as Easter became a Spring observance in place of Pagan Spring celebrations, so Sunday worship became a replacement for outmoded Sabbath observance.

The Sabbath, however, had been a respectable, reasonable law of God. The Sunday worship, on the other hand, was a recognition of Christ's resurrection, and certainly not a law.

The exhortation to meet together regularly as Christians was not a commandment, in legal terms, but rather, an encouragement out of wisdom and common sense. If we want to remember things properly, we need to take steps to establish a discipline. Sunday ritual does this.

The Commandment to Remember the Sabbath day is no more outmoded than the Commandment to not murder or steal or commit adultery, except in peoples minds. Justifying murder, theft or adultery has ever been the M.O. of men. Altering the meaning of the Sabbath Commandment so that it falls in line with the pagan (rebellious) mindset is no different.

We have a record of what Moses wrote from Genesis to Deuteronomy yet within that record we have an account of what God wrote with his own finger on stone.
We even have a saying today about something written in/ on stone......food for thought!

 

[BlessedPeace]

To the OP question: No.

 

[Randy Kluth]

The Commandment to Remember the Sabbath day is no more outmoded than the Commandment to not murder or steal or commit adultery, except in peoples minds. Justifying murder, theft or adultery has ever been the M.O. of men. Altering the meaning of the Sabbath Commandment so that it falls in line with the pagan (rebellious) mindset is no different.

We have a record of what Moses wrote from Genesis to Deuteronomy yet within that record we have an account of what God wrote with his own finger on stone.
We even have a saying today about something written in/ on stone......food for thought!

You're asserting what you haven't proven, that Sabbath Law is equal to laws against murder and theft in the New Covenant. Since Christ died on the cross, the veil of the Temple has been rent, indicating that the way to Eternal Life has been opened through Christ's resurrection.

All laws that existed under the Old Covenant had been preparatory for this event, and upon its fulfillment became obsolete. Law prohibiting murder and theft continue not under the Old Covenant but under the New Covenant. Sabbath Law was strictly part of the Old Covenant.

Gal 4.8 Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods. 9 But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forces? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? 10 You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! 11 I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.

Paul was indicating that people were still under the Law of Moses were no better than those who observe pagan holidays. It is only by faith in God's word that people are able to change at all, and God no longer directed men to obey the Law of Moses.

 

[quietthinker]

You're asserting what you haven't proven, that Sabbath Law is equal to laws against murder and theft in the New Covenant. Since Christ died on the cross, the veil of the Temple has been rent, indicating that the way to Eternal Life has been opened through Christ's resurrection. All laws that existed under the Old Covenant had been preparatory for this event, and upon its fulfillment became obsolete. Law prohibiting murder and theft continue not under the Old Covenant but under the New Covenant. Sabbath Law was strictly part of the Old Covenant.

Gal 4.8 Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods. 9 But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forces? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? 10 You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! 11 I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.

Paul was indicating that under the Law people were still under the Law of Moses were no better than those who observe pagan holidays. It is only by faith in God's word that people are able to change at all, and God no longer directed men to obey the Law of Moses.

Love has a far higher bar than Law. Love does not annul Law, it amplifies it. Here are some examples;

1. The speed limit around a school zone here in Oz is 40 klm. The law for it is so children wont get hit by speeding cars. Just because the Law says you must drive slower doesn't mean you love children; conversely if you love children you will slow down even if there is no law which says you must.
2. A married couple may never commit adultery but that does not mean they love each other because they live under the same roof.

In this sense, Love amplifies Law. Jesus fulfilled the Law over and above its requirements. By doing this he did not annul it, he amplified it.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Love has a far higher bar than Law. Love does not annul Law, it amplifies it.

Not true. Love annulled the Law of Moses. That Law stood as condemnation of all mankind--not just Israel. It served to show that God had intended to bring us Eternal Life, though not by that system. Its system of sacrifices was designed only to point to the fact Christ would one day provide a final sacrifice for sin.

Love would not leave a Law standing that continues to condemn us after we have accepted Christ. Christ brought us Eternal Life, such that we should no longer acknowledge our condemnation under the Law of Moses. That Law was purely temporary, and love acknowledges that.

Here are some examples;

1. The speed limit around a school zone here in Oz is 40 klm. The law for it is so children wont get hit by speeding cars. Just because the Law says you must drive slower doesn't mean you love children; conversely if you love children you will slow down even if there is no law which says you must.
2. A married couple may never commit adultery but that does not mean they love each other because they live under the same roof.

In this sense, Love amplifies Law. Jesus fulfilled the Law over and above its requirements. By doing this he did not annul it, he amplified it.

You are distinguishing law and love. People may observe just laws without having love.

But this isn't community or civil laws--this is Moral Law. And it is Redemptive Law. The Old Covenant was a Temporary Law of Redemption. The New Covenant is a Permanent Law of Redemption. Love recognizes the difference.

 

[quietthinker]

Not true. Love annulled the Law of Moses. That Law stood as condemnation of all mankind--not just Israel. It served to show that God had intended to bring us Eternal Life, though not by that system. Its system of sacrifices was designed only to point to the fact Christ would one day provide a final sacrifice for sin.

Love would not leave a Law standing that continues to condemn us after we have accepted Christ. Christ brought us Eternal Life, such that we should no longer acknowledge our condemnation under the Law of Moses. That Law was purely temporary, and love acknowledges that.

You are distinguishing law and love. People may observe just laws without having love.

But this isn't community or civil laws--this is Moral Law. And it is Redemptive Law. The Old Covenant was a Temporary Law of Redemption. The New Covenant is a Permanent Law of Redemption. Love recognizes the difference.

Law holds up a just and right standard....and it condemns Sin.
It is Sin which is the problem, not Law.....and as Paul says, the Law is just and right and good. (Romans 7:12)

It is the devil and wicked men who want to blame the Law....because their deeds are evil.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Law holds up a just and right standard....and it condemns Sin.
It is Sin which is the problem, not Law.....and as Paul says, the Law is just and right and good. (Romans 7:12)

It is the devil and wicked men who want to blame the Law....because their deeds are evil.

On the contrary, the Law was the problem, as stated in Scriptures. The Law stood as a barrier to our obtaining redemption and Eternal Life. The Law had to be removed, or we would be condemned forever.

Rom 8.1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.

 

[quietthinker]

On the contrary, the Law was the problem, as stated in Scriptures. The Law stood as a barrier to our obtaining redemption and Eternal Life. The Law had to be removed, or we would be condemned forever.

Rom 8.1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.

You have misappropriated the problem Randy. Sin is the problem. The law highlights it.
Speeding is the problem. Removing the 40 klm school zone speed law will not solve the problem.

 

[Wick Stick]

On the contrary, the Law was the problem, as stated in Scriptures. The Law stood as a barrier to our obtaining redemption and Eternal Life. The Law had to be removed, or we would be condemned forever.

Rom 8.1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.

I don't think the "law of sin and death" in that verse is the same as the law of Moses. A few verses before the one you quoted it says:

I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. (Romans 7:22-23)

 

[Wick Stick]

No, Sunday observance is a replacement of Sabbath observance of a kind, but not the same thing. Much as Easter became a Spring observance in place of Pagan Spring celebrations, so Sunday worship became a replacement for outmoded Sabbath observance.

I see where the Pharisees and Lawyers corrupted the Sabbath and made it about observance and business rather than rest.

It seems to me that by moving the business to Sunday, the Sabbath was restored to being about rest.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I see where the Pharisees and Lawyers corrupted the Sabbath and made it about observance and business rather than rest.

It seems to me that by moving the business to Sunday, the Sabbath was restored to being about rest.

The Sabbath was never for the world, but only for Jews who at the time were privileged to know that God had a plan for our redemption. Once that redemption came in the form of Jesus' death and resurrection, the Law of Sabbath was no longer needed.

It had only reminded Israel that their work was made acceptable by concession, and not by right. The Law of Moses served to show their condemnation until Christ had issued their full pardon.

The Law of Moses is therefore no longer needed. We may need rest, but we get it each day at night, and whenever we feel we need a break.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I don't think the "law of sin and death" in that verse is the same as the law of Moses. A few verses before the one you quoted it says:

I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. (Romans 7:22-23)

Well yes, Paul is talking about the *principle* of sin, which he suggested had operated through the Law of Moses up until Christ provided for our Eternal Salvation. So Paul was affirming that the Law of Moses, which had condemned mankind, had given way to "Christ," who has now redeemed us, setting us free from the principle of sin which had been at work under the Law.

Rom 8.And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Do you see how Paul is positioning the principle of sin with its condemnation of humanity under the Law of Moses? This is not just about the principle of sin, but about getting out from under the Law, where redemption was incomplete, leaving human condemnation still in effect.

 

[Randy Kluth]

You have misappropriated the problem Randy. Sin is the problem. The law highlights it.
Speeding is the problem. Removing the 40 klm school zone speed law will not solve the problem.

You are wrong. It is the administration that is wrong because it has been supplanted by Christ's better Redemption. The Law left intact human condemnation despite all of its means of temporary redemption. It could never redeem permanently. Only Christ could do that.

Paul goes to great length to explain that sin alone is not the problem, but more, the *guilt* of sin. That is only removed by a new administration, leaving the Law behind in favor of *Christ alone.* You must ignore Paul's teaching in Galatians and the strong message of a 2nd administration in the book of Hebrews!

 

[Hobie]

I know there are already a few threads on Saturday/Sabbath stuff, but I had a question that came out of that discussion that seems to deserve separate consideration.

Is Sunday-observance the same as Sabbath-rest?

There seems to be much ballyhoo about Sunday replacing Saturday, but that doesn't make sense if they aren't the same thing. And... I don't think they are. At least they shouldn't be. They certainly didn't start out to be...

The commandment for Sabbath is a worker's right. The Sabbath is for REST. The intention of the commandment seems to be that workers are not worked to death.

The New Testament practice of observing The Lord's Day was NOT for rest. It was for the church's business - the collection and distribution of alms, teaching, prayer, the sharing of testimonies and psalms - all the things that we normally associate with church.

While the day is nominally the day of the Lord's resurrection, history tells us that this timing was also chosen so that the assembly would compete with the pagan practice of Market Day in the New Testament era. The Greeks and Romans assembled at the town center on the 1st day of the week to sell their goods, including the meats-sacrificed-to-idols that Paul addresses at some length. By meeting outside the city, the church assured that its members couldn't attend Market Day and limited the purchase of idol-meat and other items dedicated to demons. It also had the happy side-effect of forcing Christians to give business to each other.

Today, we still have a two-day weekend, with one day being for REST (Saturday) and one for SERVICES (Sunday). And I don't think this represents a replacement of Sabbath-rest, because the two things are not the same.

Well, one is what God set at Creation, and the other is man's tradition... Who do you choose, God or man...

 

[Pavel Mosko]

I know there are already a few threads on Saturday/Sabbath stuff, but I had a question that came out of that discussion that seems to deserve separate consideration.

Is Sunday-observance the same as Sabbath-rest?

There seems to be much ballyhoo about Sunday replacing Saturday, but that doesn't make sense if they aren't the same thing. And... I don't think they are. At least they shouldn't be. They certainly didn't start out to be...

The commandment for Sabbath is a worker's right. The Sabbath is for REST. The intention of the commandment seems to be that workers are not worked to death.

The New Testament practice of observing The Lord's Day was NOT for rest. It was for the church's business - the collection and distribution of alms, teaching, prayer, the sharing of testimonies and psalms - all the things that we normally associate with church.

While the day is nominally the day of the Lord's resurrection, history tells us that this timing was also chosen so that the assembly would compete with the pagan practice of Market Day in the New Testament era. The Greeks and Romans assembled at the town center on the 1st day of the week to sell their goods, including the meats-sacrificed-to-idols that Paul addresses at some length. By meeting outside the city, the church assured that its members couldn't attend Market Day and limited the purchase of idol-meat and other items dedicated to demons. It also had the happy side-effect of forcing Christians to give business to each other.

Today, we still have a two-day weekend, with one day being for REST (Saturday) and one for SERVICES (Sunday). And I don't think this represents a replacement of Sabbath-rest, because the two things are not the same.

On this type of topic, I like to point a topic people seldom think of aka the origins of "the weekend". That actually comes from ancient Christianity, the liturgical and sacramental tradition. Essentially while Christians realized they were not under the Jewish law so to speak; they nevertheless did not completely throw out the Jewish worship customs on such matters. So, they as much as they could tried to get their work done by Friday to rest in a less regulated way, but Sunday the Day of Resurrection was a day set aside exclusively for the worship of Christ, and yes this goes back to the earliest days of the Apostles. (Early believers often attended Temple and Synagogue to preach to the unbelieving Jews, until they eventually got black balled and excommunicated from such attendance during the early Talmudic time).


I have some recommended links if you would like to learn more.

Liturgica.com | Liturgics | Early Christian Liturgics | Development of Christian Worship

Liturgica.com presents an experience and a comprehensive understanding of the development of liturgical worship and music in the Judeo-Christian traditions. Liturgical music and books can be purchased from the Liturgica Web Store. Books and religious music are available in a wide variety of...

liturgica.com

Eighth Day, First Day — Union of Messianic Jewish Congregations

All of Creation is in need of redemption, as Scripture says: “. . . which God created to do.” ( Sefat Emet)

www.umjc.org

The Origins of Sunday Worship in the Early Church - GCI Archive

Visit gci.org and browse Grace Communion International's extensive library of articles on God, the Bible, faith, and the Christian Life.

archive.gci.org

 

[Wick Stick]

Well, one is what God set at Creation, and the other is man's tradition... Who do you choose, God or man...

You apparently didn't read the opening post and just gave a stock answer.

It's not an either/or... we get two weekend days. One for rest and one for assembly.