Is It Proper to Limit God?

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear All,

I really don't know where the origins of this church wide movement to limit God came from. It really goes against the biblical pattern. Throughout the Old Testament and New Testament God has always been doing new and unprecedented things. Some even go so far as to say miracles have ceased. I mean, what is that? An omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent God who does not do the miraculous anymore? Give me a break.

Why do otherwise intelligent people want to pretend that they have God figured out? What hubris as gotten into people? How did we come to a point in our theology where we think that our doctrine could limit the God who spoke the worlds into existence?

Inquiring minds wish to know.

 

[Foreigner]

Why do otherwise intelligent people want to pretend that they have God figured out? What hubris as gotten into people? How did we come to a point in our theology where we think that our doctrine could limit the God who spoke the worlds into existence?

-- You go on and on about the Tabernacle Movement and then you post this? Yeah, I'm laughing....




.

 

[mjrhealth]

Yes its odd, but he does make for some good points. Man came up with new technology, hes good at that, the written word. So he took an infinite all powerfull God and shoved Him in a book and closed it up. Yes God is no longer the creator of the heavens and the earth, no longer able to do miracles. no longer able to save, unless He does it the bible way. No wonder people laugh at christans and call us fools.

In all His Love

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear F,

I am glad I could brignten up your day.

Blessings,

Justin

 

[biggandyy]

J, you make it sound like miracles were the norm in Biblical times. If that were the case they would not be called miracles and people then would not have look on them with wonder.

Miracles were few and far between. There were outbreaks where many were performed to achieve a purpose or goal the Lord had set out to accomplish through those who worked those miracles.

They were rare events in the OT, kind of bunched together in the NT (since it spans less than a century's worth of time between the conception of Our Lord and the birth of His Church).

If you need miracles to bolster and strengthen your Christian resolve then I would suspect something is sorely amiss in your spiritual duffel bag. Blessed are those who have NOT seen and yet believe, not the other way around.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear B,

I will take miracles over Christian resolve any day. Christian resolve is usually just pride in self.

In fact, I would say the miracles would give a Christian greater resolve because of the supernatural proof they provide.

As to the numbers and time span between miracles that varies doesn't it. If you were around during the book of Acts I would say miracles happen quite frequently.

You make the case for not needing miracles to believe. Why do you do that? Are there no miracles in your life yet you believe? Is this the norm you wish to promote? Is a life of pure intellectual Christian belief preferable to actually experiencing God? Some would say yes but in my opinion I would say they are very wrong.

The word of God that Paul preached was not in word only but in power and demonstration. I want follow that type of Christian example because it is a living faith back up by miracles.

Blessings,

Justin

 

[biggandyy]

I am a living miracle! The Lord has cheated death for me twice in recent memory. But that still pales in comparison that He sacrificed His own Son's life in place of mine in the first place!

I see miracles nearly everyday, true blue bonafide miracles. But my wonder isn't at those. I don't stand there slackjawed and wide eyed at the work of a Sovereign who has already demonstrated His love for me and the others He reaches down to touch either through health or wealth, or a strong arm to hold them fast when they faint.

But am I going to base my opinion of God and His place in my life because of those events? I came to salvation not through some flashy showcase of miraculous wiz-bang glitz. I was saved from myself for His greater Glory and His good pleasure. Miracles are wonderful, but I would rather speak of the Lord using reason and sound teaching than depending on His performing like a show pony in order to attract followers.

 

[Axehead]

Yes its odd, but he does make for some good points. Man came up with new technology, hes good at that, the written word. So he took an infinite all powerfull God and shoved Him in a book and closed it up. Yes God is no longer the creator of the heavens and the earth, no longer able to do miracles. no longer able to save, unless He does it the bible way. No wonder people laugh at christans and call us fools.

In all His Love

The Book says that He is infinite and all powerful, able to do miracles and the Creator of the heavens and the earth. The Book also says there is no salvation in any other, except Jesus Christ. His words will stand. I grant you that New Age versions of the Book are doing violence to the Scriptures. There is nothing wrong with His words. The fault always and ever will lie at the heart of men.

I am a living miracle! The Lord has cheated death for me twice in recent memory. But that still pales in comparison that He sacrificed His own Son's life in place of mine in the first place!

I see miracles nearly everyday, true blue bonafide miracles. But my wonder isn't at those. I don't stand there slackjawed and wide eyed at the work of a Sovereign who has already demonstrated His love for me and the others He reaches down to touch either through health or wealth, or a strong arm to hold them fast when they faint.

But am I going to base my opinion of God and His place in my life because of those events? I came to salvation not through some flashy showcase of miraculous wiz-bang glitz. I was saved from myself for His greater Glory and His good pleasure. Miracles are wonderful, but I would rather speak of the Lord using reason and sound teaching than depending on His performing like a show pony in order to attract followers.

Amen, Andy. Our faith stands in the power of God and the surety of His word spoken to our hearts. He is not a man that He would lie. He has elevated His word above His name and we can trust His word implicity.

 

[Foreigner]

If anyone needs a startling revelation as to who God really is, they need go no farther than the book, "The Knowledge of the Holy" by A.W. Tozer.

 

[Rex]

If anyone needs a startling revelation as to who God really is, they need go no farther than the book, "The Knowledge of the Holy" by A.W. Tozer.

I haven't read it but its short and I may just take the time to give it a read

Heres the book in pdf formate
http://www.full-proof.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Tozer-Knowledge-Of-The-Holy-b.pdf

For those that don't know just hit the save button to save a copy on your PC

Well I just read this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A._W._Tozer
I am most certainly going to read it

Thanks Foreigner
The simple fact this book is available for free is in my mind a testimony to someone that's more concerned with sharing truth than gaining dollars

 

[Angelina]

Christ's virgin birth - that was a miracle
His death on the cross - sound biblical teaching
He rose again - that was a miracle
and his blood washes us from all sin by faith in him - sound biblical teaching & a miracle.


Shalom!

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear All,

Yup...I like miracles,

Blessings,

Justin

 

[Pharmboy]

I dont think miracles produce belief or really strengthen faith (for the long term). If they are designed for that purpose then they are pretty well failures according to the Bible because they are usually followed by more underwhelming unbelief. I have noticed that most miracles (listed in scripture) occur at pivotal times in the progression of the ages in order to strengthen the claim of God that He has acted on behalf of the righteous (or to mark that a particular time has come). The miracles of Christ showed that He had the Kingdom WITH Him (there is a whole slew of prophesies regarding miracles the Kingdom will bring when it comes with the one who will bring it). The Exodus was God claiming His people. I think the greatest miracle of all is the total destruction of sin. The best way to strengthen faith (I have found) is to repent (sin undermines faith by producing fear) and always seek imago dei by repenting of self-will and rebelliousness. What a glorious day it will be indeed when I finally shed this sinful flesh and can run unhindered toward the only image I ever wish to know.

I think miracles are more like sign posts. Sure you might get healed of something but consider this, Lazarus doesnt still seem to be with us! There are more terrible things than physical sickness and death. Spiritual sickness and death is much worse. I happen to know a really great physician!

 

[bling]

Do true Christians have the undeniable proof that God is and fulfills His promises in the indwelling Holy Spirit?

Is my indwelling Holy Spirit, supposed to be your guarantee of God’s existence and keeping His promises or are you supposed to get your own indwelling Holy Spirit?

Suppose today we had independent scientific proof: showing and it was recorded that God did a modern day miracle, so even the skeptic had to accept the Christian God, would that mean the little faith (trust) to believe in a benevolent Creator would no longer be necessary (we would have knowledge)?

Would the lack of this small faith need help or hinder the man fulfilling his earthly objective?

 

[Pelaides]

There are faith healers out there healing,There are saints being canonized every year,and your saying there are no more miracles?

 

[Pharmboy]

Salvation is the miracle! What else do we need for this life?

 

[teamventure]

Dear All,

Yup...I like miracles,

Blessings,

Justin

there are more mircales contributed to Satan in the end times than God in the Bible.

 

[teamventure]

well what do you say to that Justin?

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear T,

I have been traveling...sorry for replying so late.

What I think about that is that the miraculous should be normative for Christians. The lack thereof speaks to how far we have fallen from the place where the church started out.

Christianity without miracles is a dead belief... a mere intelectual exerciese. People have been without the powere and presence of God for so long they have made it the new norm and stupidly defend there lack of God as something good. I don't hold that view.

Blessings,

Justin

 

[[email protected]]

Dear All,

I really don't know where the origins of this church wide movement to limit God came from. It really goes against the biblical pattern. Throughout the Old Testament and New Testament God has always been doing new and unprecedented things. Some even go so far as to say miracles have ceased. I mean, what is that? An omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent God who does not do the miraculous anymore? Give me a break.

Why do otherwise intelligent people want to pretend that they have God figured out? What hubris as gotten into people? How did we come to a point in our theology where we think that our doctrine could limit the God who spoke the worlds into existence?

Inquiring minds wish to know.

Nothing has 'gotten into' people. It's a leadership problem.

Their problem is that they fear God stealing their thunder - that God would perform the most minor miracle without their permission.

It's the same 'problem' that got Jesus nailed to a cross.

Some things never change.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...