Is It Proper to Limit God?

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear R,

Well said...I think that is very true. Ministers should always get out of the way when God shows up.

Blessings,

Justin

 

[bling]

Dear T,

I have been traveling...sorry for replying so late.

What I think about that is that the miraculous should be normative for Christians. The lack thereof speaks to how far we have fallen from the place where the church started out.

Christianity without miracles is a dead belief... a mere intelectual exerciese. People have been without the powere and presence of God for so long they have made it the new norm and stupidly defend there lack of God as something good. I don't hold that view.

Blessings,

Justin

I support where I can right now the underground church in Communist China. This group was almost
wiped out 40 years ago, but has now grown to be estimated at over 100 million. They have gone through severe
persecution and in some areas are still severely persecuted. They are continuing to grow rapidly, but none
that I have heard of, talk of outward type miracles. I do think there are lots of miracles going on in China (even the continued strong persecution is unwittingly helping them remain strong and grow rapidly, so it might be perceived as a miracle in some
respects). If someone even started to bring attention to himself, by miraculous events happening around him, he would
be sent off to die in some concentration camp (and maybe that is what has happen to those that were doing mirsacles?).

Why would you feel the underground Church in China would be better off with outward visible miracles?


Should we be praying for a similar situation here in the
west?

 

[horsecamp]

the problem is not legitamate mircles of God..
it those who surround them selves with false miracles .
claiming they are ligitmate miracles of God..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Za-2OkE0BVk

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear Bling,

Our gospel is not in word only but in power and demonstration. The object is not to keep out of prison or even to avoid physical harm but to testify of Christ.

I believe that the west will suffer persecution to the point where we will suffer terribly for the gospels sake. This will be difficult but that is what happens when you stand for Christ.

Blessings,

Justin

 

[bling]

Dear Bling,

Our gospel is not in word only but in power and demonstration. The object is not to keep out of prison or even to avoid physical harm but to testify of Christ.

I believe that the west will suffer persecution to the point where we will suffer terribly for the gospels sake. This will be difficult but that is what happens when you stand for Christ.

Blessings,

Justin

I am not seeing or am I aware of any outward miraculous “signs”
being done in or by the underground Church in China, so does that mean they are
not teaching the gospel?

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear Bling,

I have no personal dealings with the underground church in China so I have only heard and read about stories. However, from what I have heard there is plenty of miraculous things happening in the underground church. Many are very strict and legalistic by western standards but the power and presence of the Holy Spirit is there in healings and other miracles.

Do people have to experience miracles to be Christians? No. Should they? Yes. Why? Because if Christ lives His life through us then the works that He did we will do also through the Holy Spirit (God His father.)

So, what are your really getting at? Are you concerned that you should be experiencing more of the miraculous in your life?

Blessings,

Justin

 

[aspen]

it is not possible to to limit God.

 

[bling]

I have no personal dealings with the underground church in China so I have only heard and read about stories. However, from what I have heard there is plenty of miraculous things happening in the underground church. Many are very strict and legalistic by western standards but the power and presence of the Holy Spirit is there in healings and other miracles.

If there are outward obvious “Miracles” they are not made
known as such.

I, like them, have experienced many “miracles”, but even
though the person(s) were virtually brought back to life, this could not be
scientifically shown to be outside of natural means. By Faith I know God’s hand was involved.


There are lots of good practical logical reasons
why miraculous healings are not touted among the nonbelievers in China. The nonbeliever will have little if any
contact with the church meeting prior to becoming a baptized believer out of
protection for him and the little home church (if the nonbeliever without the
power of the indwelling Holy Spirit is interrogated by the Government, he can
only tell them about his Christian friends and not where the church
meets). These Home churches are not
trying to bring attention to their meetings, but are training others to lead
nonbelievers to Christ one on one.
Really bring attention to Christ living in them.

If the nonbeliever is shown a miracle, that could not be
explained any other way than by Deity’s intervention, would that nonbeliever
need to have faith in the existence of a god or would he now have knowledge of
the existence of a god without faith?

People that study and gain knowledge can become reliant on
self to answer their questions, become puffed up with knowledge. While faith in a benevolent Creator is
something the lowliest person on earth can do which makes trusting in God a
humbling experience. So do we need
humility or self-reliance?

iv>
Do people have to experience miracles to be Christians? No. Should they? Yes. Why? Because if Christ lives His life through us then the works that He did we will do also through the Holy Spirit (God His father.)

So, what are your really getting at? Are you concerned that you should be experiencing more of the miraculous in your life?

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Dear All,

Christianity is very simple yet it takes faith which is, to the natural man,
and difficult thing to come by. In its essence it is simply about
believing the report that says Christ died upon the cross in our place and if
we accept Him as our Lord and Savior we shall be saved from the Lake of
Fire.

This only requires that we believe what He said and what is said about
Him. It takes no knowledge and really no understanding. Someone
tells us the good news, we believe it, and then God honors His promise through
His son.

This is how we all start and this is how we should all continue. What
happens is that people lose sight of the simplicity of the gospel and start
trying to earn salvation by what they do. This is why people are so
caught up in the nifty gritty of the word because they feel that how well they
keep it earns them points with God. Many people bridle at this notion but
nevertheless it is how things really work in many Christians lives.

Obedience is not something you have to figure out it is just something you
have to do on a daily basis. When God speaks to you it is up to you to
simply take Him at His word and do it when He says to do it. To the
degree that we do this we are either His sons and daughters or strangers.

People are lying to others that knowledge somehow allows us to follow God
better than those without it. It does not and in fact it can be very
dangerous to your Christian health. If you do not do the simple truths
that you know then why does having more complex truths help you do
better? It does not and only serves to tie you up in knots and bind you
in legalism.

Those who count themselves as having a lot of knowledge and revelation sometimes
hold to it so hard because they have nothing else left. The joy of their
first love and salvation has left them a long time ago and not all they have
left is dry dusty truth. They feel they should be happier but they cannot
figure out why they are not.

The cure for this ailment is to simply forget about what you know and start
to do what God speaks to you on a daily basis. Start to trust His voice
rather than your knowledge and allow Him to lead you in the ways He sees fit
without trying to correct Him when He does so. This will restore the
freshness of your walk and bring back the excitement of being saved once again.

God bless,

Justin