Is it ever ok to lie?

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Is it ever ok to lie?


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PinSeeker

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God only endorses perfection, bbyrd, and that's because He is perfect. As Jesus ~ Who was without sin, and that would include lying ~ said in Matthew 5:48, "your heavenly Father is perfect." So, why not? Because then God would not be God, basically (which is of course not the case). And at least these three Scripture passages would be untrue (which is also not the case):

"God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind." (Numbers 23:19)

"Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the sake of the faith of God’s elect and their knowledge of the truth, which accords with godliness, in hope of eternal life, which God, Who never lies, promised before the ages began..." (Titus 1:1-2)

"So when God desired to show more convincingly to the heirs of the promise the unchangeable character of His purpose, He guaranteed it with an oath, so that by two unchangeable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled for refuge might have strong encouragement to hold fast to the hope set before us." (Hebrews 6:17-18)

Grace and peace to you.
 
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PinSeeker

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Dig deeper and you will see that there are lies that have good intentions.
You know, don't take this for more than it's worth, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions (so to speak). :) I think you should dig deeper, Cristo Rei, and you will find that in the Bible, there are a few instances where lies are indeed spoken by various folks (not God), and God uses those things to accomplish His purposes.

You also might take a look at the three passages I quoted immediately above (Matthew 5:48, Numbers 23:19, Titus 1:1-2, Hebrews 6:17-18).

You haven't given that a thought at all.
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Grace and peace to you.
 

Cristo Rei

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You know, don't take this for more than it's worth, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions (so to speak). :) I think you should dig deeper, Cristo Rei, and you will find that in the Bible, there are a few instances where lies are indeed spoken by various folks (not God), and God uses those things to accomplish His purposes.

You also might take a look at the three passages I quoted immediately above (Matthew 5:48, Numbers 23:19, Titus 1:1-2, Hebrews 6:17-18).


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Grace and peace to you.

We have already discussed that.
Like I said. You are only scratching the surface my friend
 

Taken

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Is it ever ok to lie?
OP ^

Tough question in some respects.

We have Jokes, Kidding, Comedians, story tellers, fables, fantasy stories...with the expectation of made up, and not necessarily true.

But over all, no, not ok to lie.
 

Cristo Rei

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Is it ever ok to lie?
OP ^

Tough question in some respects.

We have Jokes, Kidding, Comedians, story tellers, fables, fantasy stories...with the expectation of made up, and not necessarily true.

But over all, no, not ok to lie.

Hi Taken im glad you shared your opinion. I can see you've given it considerable thought unlike some others.

It is a tough question. You gave some great examples of when people might give an acceptable lie. I found myself doing it recently when I was joking around with someone.

Another time when a lie might be appropriate is to keep from hurting someone or a relationship.

For example. You have a wife that asks
"do I look fat in this dress?"
You know she does but what do you say?

Or your child brings home a drawing of the family. It's horrible but you still put it up on the fridge and tell her she's an artist
 
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APAK

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Hi Taken im glad you shared your opinion. I can see you've given it considerable thought unlike some others.

It is a tough question. You gave some great examples of when people might give an acceptable lie. I found myself doing it recently when I was joking around with someone.

Another time when a lie might be appropriate is to keep from hurting someone or a relationship.

For example. You have a wife that asks
"do I look fat in this dress?"
You know she does but what do you say?

Or your child brings home a drawing of the family. It's horrible but you still put it up on the fridge and tell her she's an artist
Cristo...when my wife has asked me how she looks in some clothing I answer based on what I see as the truth and I don't lie to her. If the outfit is really great, then that's an easy answer, and I say of course. When it is clearly awful, I never just say NO, ITS AWFUL, that's the kiss of death. She can read me very well.... And of course I do not want to be shot on the spot. I say something that has a sense of reality and not BS. I say things like it might not match that well with say her hair, or its out of style or something else. You see it is not a lie to say such things because she knows that if I extend my answer in some way, that I have already said NO to her. Thinking that a lie means you do not get to the point quickly or exactly and saying YES or NO is not necessarily lying, because your intention is to not lie, only attempting to somehow cushion the blow of a negative reply....or rejection. Tone and volume (shouting) and style matter to women, and I'm still learning all three....lol

Now in your other example it is similar. If my child was not gifted in drawing and trying their best to draw something or someone and it turned out to be really awful, depending on the age and other conditions like physical or mental handicaps I would still find ways to soften the blow and avoid telling them I totally reject it because it was awful. By being more helpful in your words, you keep them positive and uplifted and you might add in some useful recommendations they take to heart.

If the child was of a pre-school age and saying to them they might be an artist in the future in definitely not a lie, even if their drawing is ghastly. You don't know their potential nor does that child at that time. It is a form of encouragement and thinking of lying or not should not enter one's mind in this case.

I think if our intentions are pure, and we are not devising ways to lie then what comes out of our mouth is most probably not a lie, from our heart. When we devise evil in our heart, they we tend to lie...and not just to others, to ourselves and our Maker.
God knows when we lie and if we get convicted and ponder on the matter for too long, then we know in short order we did lie...busted!
 
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MatthewG

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A consideration.

Speak the truth in love, by the Holy Spirit.

Religious Leaders who put people under bondage - That is something you can call out as - Jesus Christ had done it himself, but speak the truth in love.

Jesus Christ came to free those who are under bondage and to be free to live their life between themselves and God who sent Jesus. To Love God and to love others.
 
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Cristo Rei

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Cristo...when my wife has asked me how she looks in some clothing I answer based on what I see as the truth and I don't lie to her. If the outfit is really great, then that's an easy answer, and I say of course. When it is clearly awful, I never just say NO, ITS AWFUL, that's the kiss of death. She can read me very well.... And of course I do not want to be shot on the spot. I say something that has a sense of reality and not BS. I say things like it might not match that well with say her hair, or its out of style or something else. You see it is not a lie to say such things because she knows that if I extend my answer in some way, that I have already said NO to her. Thinking that a lie means you do not get to the point quickly or exactly and saying YES or NO is not necessarily lying, because your intention is to not lie, only attempting to somehow cushion the blow of a negative reply....or rejection. Tone and volume (shouting) and style matter to women, and I'm still learning all three....lol

Now in your other example it is similar. If my child was not gifted in drawing and trying their best to draw something or someone and it turned out to be really awful, depending on the age and other conditions like physical or mental handicaps I would still find ways to soften the blow and avoid telling them I totally reject it because it was awful. By being more helpful in your words, you keep them positive and uplifted and you might add in some useful recommendations they take to heart.

If the child was of a pre-school age and saying to them they might be an artist in the future in definitely not a lie, even if their drawing is ghastly. You don't know their potential nor does that child at that time. It is a form of encouragement and thinking of lying or not should not enter one's mind in this case.

Hahahah the Major is too smooth to get caught slippin like that... His got his bases covered

think if our intentions are pure, and we are not devising ways to lie then what comes out of our mouth is most probably not a lie, from our heart. When we devise evil in our heart, they we tend to lie...and not just to others, to ourselves and our Maker.
God knows when we lie and if we get convicted and ponder on the matter for too long, then we know in short order we did lie...busted!

True
 

EloyCraft

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Suppose you were hiding a family of Jews from the Nazis during the second world war.
Some Nazi soldiers come to your door asking if you had seen any Jews.
Would it be wrong to tell the soldiers you haven't?
Does everyone always deserve to know the truth?
 
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Cristo Rei

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Suppose you were hiding a family of Jews from the Nazis during the second world war.
Some Nazi soldiers come to your door asking if you had seen any Jews.
Would it be wrong to tell the soldiers you haven't?
Does everyone always deserve to know the truth?

Ahh excellent example my friend
Followed by an excellent question
Does everyone deserve to know the truth?
Thanks for sharing
 

MatthewG

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Suppose you were hiding a family of Jews from the Nazis during the second world war.
Some Nazi soldiers come to your door asking if you had seen any Jews.
Would it be wrong to tell the soldiers you haven't?
Does everyone always deserve to know the truth?

Protecting others from harm. Someone coming to seek to destroy with evil intentions. Reminds me of the Rahab the Harlot, who sent the people away that were seeking to harm the messengers that were sent to her.

There was one more I had thought about but slipped my mind.
 
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Cristo Rei

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Protecting others from harm. Someone coming to seek to destroy with evil intentions. Reminds me of the Rahab the Harlot, who sent the people away that were seeking to harm the messengers that were sent to her.

There was one more I had thought about but slipped my mind.

There is a fair bit to this topic when you dig into it. I think everyone first instinct is to say its never ok to lie but i bet everyone has done it with good intentions

By the way, you are no longer the bearded one. Why not?
 
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Taken

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Another time when a lie might be appropriate is to keep from hurting someone or a relationship.

That’s a tough one too, yet still I think there are ways to respond without lying, without hurting feelings.

For example. You have a wife that asks
"do I look fat in this dress?"
You know she does but what do you say?

That is the classic question. Trust me, a woman who is fat, knows she is fat, regardless of the dress. I lean toward, she wants you to lie to her. Which then I wonder, does she think it okay to lie, and is she then verifying it is okay for her to lie to me. And it depends on the individuals personality. Can they handle blunt truth or truth with sensitivity in mind.

Or your child brings home a drawing of the family. It's horrible but you still put it up on the fridge and tell her she's an artist

I doubt I would volunteer saying she’s an artist.

Both of those scenarios are likely in the home, and remembering, little kids are learning, observing, lying is okay, in some cases actually teaching kids to lie.
~ Like the parent whose says...go tell the person on the phone, I’m not here.
~ Like the kid who says Daddy said I couldn’t have a cookie, and mom says you can have one cookie, but don’t tell your dad.

It’s a communication process. :)
 
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Taken

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Another classic...
Good morning, How are you today?
Fine.
Total lie. Got bad news a family member was in an auto accident, Stove stopped working in the middle of making breakfast, car had a flat tire on way to work....
How are you today?
Appropriate answer;
Could be better. (Details not necessary to say.)
 
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Cristo Rei

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Another classic...
Good morning, How are you today?
Fine.
Total lie. Got bad news a family member was in an auto accident, Stove stopped working in the middle of making breakfast, car had a flat tire on way to work....
How are you today?
Appropriate answer;
Could be better. (Details not necessary to say.)

A good example was given in post #90
Suppose you were hiding a family of Jews from the Nazis during the second world war.
Some Nazi soldiers come to your door asking if you had seen any Jews.
Would it be wrong to tell the soldiers you haven't?
Does everyone always deserve to know the truth?
 

Cristo Rei

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You know, don't take this for more than it's worth, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions (so to speak). :) I think you should dig deeper, Cristo Rei, and you will find that in the Bible, there are a few instances where lies are indeed spoken by various folks (not God), and God uses those things to accomplish His purposes.

You also might take a look at the three passages I quoted immediately above (Matthew 5:48, Numbers 23:19, Titus 1:1-2, Hebrews 6:17-18).


giphy.gif


Grace and peace to you.
 

Cristo Rei

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You know, don't take this for more than it's worth, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions (so to speak). :) I think you should dig deeper, Cristo Rei, and you will find that in the Bible, there are a few instances where lies are indeed spoken by various folks (not God), and God uses those things to accomplish His purposes.

You also might take a look at the three passages I quoted immediately above (Matthew 5:48, Numbers 23:19, Titus 1:1-2, Hebrews 6:17-18).


giphy.gif


Grace and peace to you.

Because i love that Marlon Brando eye roll gif so much im going to see how you respond to some examples

Suppose you were hiding a family of Jews from the Nazis during the second world war.
Some Nazi soldiers come to your door asking if you had seen any Jews.
Would it be wrong to tell the soldiers you haven't?
Does everyone always deserve to know the truth?

For example. You have a wife that asks
"do I look fat in this dress?"
You know she does but what do you say?

Or your primary school child brings home a drawing of the family.
It's horrible but you still put it up on the fridge and tell her its fantastic.
Is that so bad?

Or how about a fictional book or movie?
They're lies
 
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Pearl

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The bible tells us that "Satan is the father of lies"

Ok

So then, is there ever an appropriate reason for us to lie?

What about withholding the truth?
Is that just as bad as a lie?
Peter lied and was forgiven. Abraham lied too.
 
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Taken

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A good example was given in post #90
Suppose you were hiding a family of Jews from the Nazis during the second world war.
Some Nazi soldiers come to your door asking if you had seen any Jews.

If you were hiding them, and you hadn’t seen them that day, You could honestly say, Not seen any today.

If you wife takes them food, and you answer the soldiers, again you had not seen any today.

Would it be wrong to tell the soldiers you haven't?

Can always tell the truth.

Does everyone always deserve to know the truth?

Do people always deserve the whole truth? No.

What goes on about in your home, is not my business.
What is a Nazi soldier’s orders, is not my business to help him accomplish “his” orders.

Did or Does a Jew look different than all other people, that if I see one, I know he is a Jew?