Is God Moral?

[Ritajanice]

What? That is surely not correct.

That is most surely correct and @Nancy or @Rita will confirm.we are not allowed to discuss the Trinity.

That's precisely what God did (although not in a sexual manner, of course).


The Holy Spirit is God and I don't care what your belief is UNLESS you can establish it with scripture and sound reason.

Who said the Holy Spirit wasn’t God?

Could God come down as he is and impregnate Mary?..that is what I meant..he sent his Holy Spirit to impregnate Mary....

Quite so! This is not only the Christian belief, it is a logical necessity for Jesus to be the Christ. Sin passes through the father and not the mother. Thus, Jesus, having no fleshly father, did not inherit Adam's fallen sinful nature. He being both God Himself and fully free from any sin, was therefore qualified to die as propitiation for the sin of the world.

 

[Logikos]

"Provable" is tough talk, my friend. In the end, it precludes faith.

On the contrary it is the very food of faith.

Faith is not the absence of proof but the willing to act on the substantive evidence.

What you seem to be claiming is what amounts to solving the problem of evil full stop.

Quite so! Although that is not the intent of my thesis on this thread.

Human grasp of that, while capable of improvement beyond what most would dare hope, is nevertheless finite.

Don't be so sure.

In actual fact, the problem of evil only exists for those who buy into the theology proper of Socrates, Plato and Aristotle. Definitely a topic for another thread! :cool:

 

[Logikos]

That is most surely correct and @Nancy or @Rita will confirm.we are not allowed to discuss the Trinity.

On an overtly Christian web forum?

WHY?

Who said the Holy Spirit wasn’t God?

You seemed to be implying it. If not - great!

Could God come down as he is and impregnate Mary?..that is what I meant..he sent his Holy Spirit to impregnate Mary....

God can come down and do whatever He decided He wanted to do.

And you're doing it again. There is no difference between "God coming down as He is" and "God sending His Spirit". Is the Holy Spirit not God Himself? Did the Holy Spirit not come down "as He is"?

Again, this gets sort of thick to walk through because God is, in fact, a Trinity and as such it's hard, if not impossible, to separate One from Another, if you'll allow the phrasing. The point being that it is just as valid to say that God descended upon Mary as it is to say the the Holy Spirit did so. It's the same thing.

 

[Ritajanice]

On an overtly Christian web forum?

WHY?

Listen...don’t shout at me...I will leave admin to answer.

You seemed to be implying it. If not - great!


God can come down and do whatever He decided He wanted to do.

And you're doing it again. There is no difference between "God coming down as He is" and "God sending His Spirit". Is the Holy Spirit not God Himself? Did the Holy Spirit not come down "as He is"?

I’ve also already explained...don’t talk about the Trinity...or your topic will get locked.

Rubbish....God could not come down as he is..that’s why he sent his Son...Gods seed, that was our way back to God....Jesus had to die so that we could be reconciled back to God...

That is another topic...and it would include the trinity, so we best stop now......and don’t tell me how to post..you seem to like to belittle people.

Again, this gets sort of thick to walk through because God is, in fact, a Trinity and as such it's hard, if not impossible, to separate One from Another, if you'll allow the phrasing. The point being that it is just as valid to say that God descended upon Mary as it is to say the the Holy Spirit did so. It's the same thing.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Okay, if you don't want to answer directly, that's fine.

However, Jesus met but did not set the standard during His earthly life. God (including God the Son, of course) was good long before anything physical even existed, right?

i disagree, I think jesus set the standard by showing us what perfect love is.

Can God sin? What is sin?

that should answer your question

 

[Wrangler]

Not even close to a sensible answer of discussion, general or OTHERWISE.

It’s on par with an answer as sensible as suggesting God is capable of murder.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What is the point of this thread?


To say that God is good means that God always acts in accordance to what is right, true, and good. Goodness is part of God’s nature, and He cannot contradict His nature.

Amen, He is a God of perfect love.

If he would sin (not love) then he would not be perfect in his love, and would cease being a morally righteous God

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Take the specifics out of it then, which I did already, by the way. I asked the same question in three different ways specifically for that purpose.

If God were to do something that we know today is evil (it doesn't matter what it is), would that then change the definition of right and wrong or would it make God evil?

This is not that hard of a question! Is it?

Is it really that difficult to come to the conclusion that if God came down and told me to torture all the five years olds that I could find, and that I complied with that command that both God and I would be evil?

Do we know of any rapists or child torturers that aren't evil? Is there any conceivable scenario where rape or the torture of five year olds is justified? (Note the meaning of the word "justified"!)

I genuinely do not understand why people get so squirmy when asked this question. It truly baffles me.

We do not define what is evil, nor should it even in my view a question.

People claim god is evil all the time, it does not make him evil

There are those in this very thread who say if God cast people to hell forever he is a God of evil. Does that make God evil?

 

[Logikos]

That would be me in regards to the O.P. I also have explained my choice!
Now was it a "trick" question is yet to be determined.

Never ask a question if you don't already know the answer.

Baiting hooks is repulsive.
Fishing is done better with a net.....the net of the gospel of Jesus Christ !

You are one super cynical dude! Wow!

I totally promise you that it is not a trick question and there's no hook being baited.

All I'm doing is two things....

1. Trying to get a sense for where people on this forum are on the topic without muddying the water with my own thoughts injected too early.
2. Creating some little bit of suspense. It usually has the effect of keeping people interested.

There is a third benefit that I hadn't thought of til now. It shows me who the cynics are in the group! Some of you people have the thinnest skin ever! I mean, sheesh!

 

[Logikos]

We do not define what is evil, nor should it even in my view a question.

People claim god is evil all the time, it does not make him evil

Now this is bang on the topic and precisely the sort of thing I wanted to discuss with people!

Why isn't the same logic valid when applied to making the claim that God is good?

There are those in this very thread who say if God cast people to hell forever he is a God of evil. Does that make God evil?

It would if His doing so was arbitrary, as many here believe.

(Actually, I haven't been here long enough to know with certainly that "many here believe" that but let's just say that I'll be surprised to discover otherwise.)

 

[Logikos]

Not at all.
I do not know your agenda, now do I ?


The post you highlighted on, murder is the one I am referencing below. History between ppl speaks volumes some are not privy
to !

Nevertheless, it was petty and most probably ineffective.

So I've responded to literally dozens of posts today and I so honestly do not know what post of mine you're talking about.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

You are one super cynical dude! Wow!

I totally promise you that it is not a trick question and there's no hook being baited.

All I'm doing is two things....

1. Trying to get a sense for where people on this forum are on the topic without muddying the water with my own thoughts injected too early.
2. Creating some little bit of suspense. It usually has the effect of keeping people interested.

There is a third benefit that I hadn't thought of til now. It shows me who the cynics are in the group! Some of you people have the thinnest skin ever! I mean, sheesh!

Cynical (adjective)
believing that people are motivated purely by self-interest; distrustful of human sincerity or integrity.

Critical thinking:
expressing or involving an analysis of the merits and faults of a work

i can be cynical as I am a skeptic and do not take everything one says on that merit alone, saying so.

I prefer to think of myself as a critical thinker, asking questions to get at the core of ppls statements.

BTW female here, so you may call me "dudette ".

 

[Logikos]

Listen...don’t shout at me...I will leave admin to answer.

I wasn't shouting. This isn't Facebook. Caps is intended for emphasis only.

I’ve also already explained...don’t talk about the Trinity...or your topic will get locked.

Well, it's just that I'm having a difficult time comprehending that it's actually a rule. How is a Christian supposed to talk about God AND avoid discussing the Trinity? That makes no sense to me. It feels like trying to talk about light without mentioning color. I'll look it up and see what it actually says.

Rubbish....God could not come down as he is..that’s why he sent his Son...Gods seed, that was our way back to God....Jesus had to die so that we could be reconciled back to God...

This does not sound to me like normal Christian doctrine, especially if you are saying these things absent any concept of the Trinity doctrine.

That is another topic...and it would include the trinity, so we best stop now......and don’t tell me how to post..you seem to like to belittle people.

What are you talking about? Where did I ever tell you how to post?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Now this is bang on the topic and precisely the sort of thing I wanted to discuss with people!

Why isn't the same logic valid when applied to making the claim that God is good?


It would if His doing so was arbitrary, as many here believe.

(Actually, I haven't been here long enough to know with certainly that "many here believe" that but let's just say that I'll be surprised to discover otherwise.)

I hear people say God told them to leave their spouse and hook up wiht someone else.

If people knew God they would not say such things.

If this is what you’re trying to get at, you should have started this way. Would have had a lot less flack.

 

[Ritajanice]

This does not sound to me like normal Christian doctrine, especially if you are saying these things absent any concept of the Trinity doctrine.

And who cares what you think?

What is normal Christian doctrine to you doesn’t interest me in the least.

I go by the Living/ seed/ word of God.

Keep the Trinity to yourself....

If you want a discussion about Born Again or other topics...look on other parts of the forum.
We are all searching for Gods truth.

 

[Logikos]

i disagree, I think jesus set the standard by showing us what perfect love is.

Your disagreement is irrelevant.

God was good before He became Jesus whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

That is to say, it is a statement of fact. It is not a matter of opinion. You might as well disagree that the Sun rises in the East.

Can God sin? What is sin?

that should answer your question

It doesn't answer the question because it is just the same question asked a different way. If it is not meaningful to say that God is righteous then it would be equally meaningless to say that God does or does not sin. If it is meaningful to say that God is righteous then what does it mean? Righteous - by what standard?

 

[Logikos]

And who cares what you think?

What is normal Christian doctrine to you doesn’t interest me in the least.

You are unhinged. This is a discussion forum where people discuss things. If you'd like I am fully capable and totally willing to establish what I believe with sound reason and the plain reading of God word. Can you make the same claim or do you just get all emotional when people challenge the things you say on a debate forum?

I go by the Living/ seed/ word of God.

Okay well then prove it. Your showing up here to proclaim what you believe isn't going to convince very many people. Be interesting. Make an actual argument.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Your disagreement is irrelevant.

God was good before He became Jesus whether you want to acknowledge it or not.
That is to say, it is a statement of fact. It is not a matter of opinion. You might as well disagree that the Sun rises in the East.

I can see what others are getting on you about

How arrogant do you have to be to make a response like this.

I never said God was not Good before Jesus came, I did not.

All i said was jesus did set the standard. He said if you see me, you have seen the father.’’so in your own words. Your disagreement is irrelevant (i would suggest you show some humility in the future)

It doesn't answer the question because it is just the same question asked a different way. If it is not meaningful to say that God is righteous then it would be equally meaningless to say that God does or does not sin. If it is meaningful to say that God is righteous then what does it mean? Righteous - by what standard?

His standard, Perfect love

I answered this before..I said the standard is loved only in this case, not human love but perfect love.

Jesus is the only one one in the flesh who ever did this..

God however has done it for all eternity

 

[Ritajanice]

You are unhinged.

Don’t keep getting personal...or i will report your post!...all over this thread you have posted insulting remarks to members.

This is a discussion forum where people discuss things. If you'd like I am fully capable and totally willing to establish what I believe with sound reason and the plain reading of God word. Can you make the same claim or do you just get all emotional when people challenge the things you say on a debate forum?

Again don’t get personal discuss the topic not the poster

Okay well then prove it. Your showing up here to proclaim what you believe isn't going to convince very many people. Be interesting. Make an actual argument.

Who am I trying to convince...prove what?

Not on this topic I won’t....maybe in the Born Again topics, that might be interesting to discuss with you.

I look forward to discussing with you in the Born Again topics.

 

[Rita]

I wasn't shouting. This isn't Facebook. Caps is intended for emphasis only.


Well, it's just that I'm having a difficult time comprehending that it's actually a rule. How is a Christian supposed to talk about God AND avoid discussing the Trinity? That makes no sense to me. It feels like trying to talk about light without mentioning color. I'll look it up and see what it actually says.


This does not sound to me like normal Christian doctrine, especially if you are saying these things absent any concept of the Trinity doctrine.


What are you talking about? Where did I ever tell you how to post?

The trinity is a banned subject on the forum. This is not up for discussion, check the forum rules.
Rita