Is Faith A Person?

[MA2444]

We surly can’t have two natures when we are in Christ?
Or do we have 2 natures?

We do at birth and most of our lives. But when we get born again we learn a man can not serve two masters. So the battleground in the mind begins getting noisy with dissent from our soul and flesh. When we learn to make our choices based on what the Spirit says, then I think it can be said that we have overcome the flesh, however we must endure until the end and remain holding hands with Faith.

 

[Ritajanice]

@MA2444

Plus it takes years to understand, all about the Spirit Of God once Born Again, for me it was out of the blue , like a bolt of lightning, if that makes sense.

One minute I was RJ as an unbeliever, completely unaware of Gods existence, the next I was Born Again, it was a huge heart/ spirit revelation....I tell you, it blew my mind...long story.

I was Born Again 33 years ago...there has been a lot of heartache along the way, Joy, etc...I could write a book regarding my journey with the Lord.

We never ever stop growing in Christ....I also think one needs to recognise “ the self” that has taken years for God to get me to that place of understanding self....what a journey that has been, anyway I won’t bore you any further...God Bless, enjoy the rest of your day.

 

[MA2444]

Also, have you ever experienced the peace of God in certain situations?

It’s a peace like no other, you just know in your spirit that you are on the right path with God....what does he say, about, be anxious for nothing, ...that took a long time for those words to penetrate my heart.

I experience the peace of God is a lot of situations.

It took awhile for it to penetrate my heart too. We're slow learers, lol. But once it did...what a difference! That's how He communicates to me sometimes that I did the right thing or am thinking the right thing. I dont talk about that much because I cant prove any of it, I just know of it.

 

[Wrangler]

That's it! Now tell me, what facts make this (Theory/Opinion) Objective?

You stated what you say is an objective opinion, but you didnt really say what it was based on. Will you do that for us, to bolster your position?

I gave what my theory/opinion was based on. Scripture and Strongs Concordance.
So now it's your turn.

I already have my friend. You don't seem aware that the Bible is a highly figurative book. For instance, Jesus said he will build back the temple in 3 days, everyone knew "the temple" meant Solomon's temple. Another example is what type of bread is Jesus talking about here?

Matthew 16:7-11
New Living Translation
7 At this they began to argue with each other because they hadn’t brought any bread. 8 Jesus knew what they were saying, so he said, “You have so little faith! Why are you arguing with each other about having no bread? 9 Don’t you understand even yet? Don’t you remember the 5,000 I fed with five loaves, and the baskets of leftovers you picked up? 10 Or the 4,000 I fed with seven loaves, and the large baskets of leftovers you picked up? 11 Why can’t you understand that I’m not talking about bread? So again I say, ‘Beware of the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.’”

 

[MA2444]

I already have my friend. You don't seem aware that the Bible is a highly figurative book. For instance, Jesus said he will build back the temple in 3 days, everyone knew "the temple" meant Solomon's temple. Another example is what type of bread is Jesus talking about here?

Matthew 16:7-11
New Living Translation
7 At this they began to argue with each other because they hadn’t brought any bread. 8 Jesus knew what they were saying, so he said, “You have so little faith! Why are you arguing with each other about having no bread? 9 Don’t you understand even yet? Don’t you remember the 5,000 I fed with five loaves, and the baskets of leftovers you picked up? 10 Or the 4,000 I fed with seven loaves, and the large baskets of leftovers you picked up? 11 Why can’t you understand that I’m not talking about bread? So again I say, ‘Beware of the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.’”

I want to understand what you're saying. I think your saying that the scripture I posted is figurative and metaphorical? That seems to be what your saying, corect me if I'm wrong.

Here's the scripture, so please tell me what is figurative about it and unpack it's real meaning for me so I can understand, ok?

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.../KJV

And I also posted from Strongs Concordance of that verse and I looked up the word "substance" and it said twice in it that it's meaning can mean a "person". So, is that figurative also? I dont want to be wrong but if I am I am able to accept that I was wrong. But from what I read "substance is translated from Greek #5287 which it says is a compound word "Hypostasis" and it defines it as:

Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
ὑπόστασις hupŏstasis, hoop-os'-tas-is; from a compound of G5259 and G2476; a setting under (support), i.e. (figuratively) concretely, essence, or abstractly, assurance (objectively or subjectively):— confidence, confident, person, substance..../Strongs

G5287 - hypostasis - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)

G5287 - ὑπόστασις hupŏstasis, hoop-os'-tas-is; from a compound of and ; a setting under (support), i.e. (figuratively) concretely, essence, or abstractly, assurance (objectively or subjectively):— confidence, confident, person, substance.

www.blueletterbible.org

So can you help me to understand my mistake?

 

[Wrangler]

So can you help me to understand my mistake?

Yes. Your mistake is not answering questions. Yet, you want me to answer yours.

I asked a simple question. Are you aware that the Bible is highly figurative. It's a yes or no question.

I know you are all excited to get to the particulars but if you cannot understand at a general level, you will not understand at a particular level.

 

[MA2444]

Yes. Your mistake is not answering questions. Yet, you want me to answer yours.

I asked a simple question. Are you aware that the Bible is highly figurative. It's a yes or no question.

I know that some of the Bible is figurative. So I guess that's a yes.

Your turn:

Are you aware that some parts of the Bible is Literal?

I know you are all excited to get to the particulars but if you cannot understand at a general level, you will not understand at a particular level.

What is that some sort of Freudian dodge? Why not either help a Brother out to see his mistake, or admit that well you cant? Dont keep doing that to me bro. Either you can explain your position or you cant.

I explained my position on the subject, and you say, You Are Wrong! But you cant explain how or why? Start playing word salad games instead of just giving an answer? That's lame brother.

Can you do it? Or No? A simple yes or no.

 

[Grailhunter]

That might be a good question for Isaac! He might say yes because it was him on the chopping block.

Galaitians 3:6-9
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham..../KJV

So it sounds like Abraham broke the curve. He had the Gospel message preached unto him, Abraham believed God, he trusted God. That's having faith in God. Do you have faith? You must be blessed thru Abraham! Abraham may not have understood what Faith is, but he had it because he believed God and trusted Him.



This is a great passage. They were still under the old covenant law. But Jesus had not been crucified yet so the price had not been paid yet, hence, old testament.

And still, that lady had faith and reached into the future for the promise that was coming and grabbed hold of it and held it to her heart! She was kind of like a time traveler that way, lol.. Jesus recognized that as Faith so said to her, your Faith has made you well...

So just because it was old covenant still doesnt mean that Faith didnt exist yet. Are you saying that Faith is a non personified "power" in God's control? I have a hard time accepting that because God is the Creator of Life. God is the God of the Living and not a God of the dead. So Faith could easily be a person. The one that keeps whispering, Trust God...

Nothing personal to the lady who did all that studying and teaching about Faith, I have to be skeptical of the things that women say. Many times, they are illogical.

God is the God of the Living. We are all a part of the body of Christ, right? You may be a part of the hand whereas I may be a part of the foot, Christ is the head (That's code talk for He makes the decisions!)

So you are a finger on His hand. You have a name. What if you were a mere unconscious power in Gods control? No, my friend. Faith is more likely to be a person than a "power". Faith may have power and it may be significant, but the power He has is not him, but an attribute of Him. What his skills and talants are.

As above so below? So we are of the body of Christ, with a name, talants and skills that the Lord has provided for us. Along with our "personality".

If I seem to be stretching the envelope with this idea of Faith being a person it is because I seek to understand the ways and thoughts of God that are so far above mine and yours. (Colossians 3:2)
Besides, all I stretch out is a concept, the Lord stretched out the Heavens. Yeah. Tat's a bit bigger! And it's true that God works in (Twilight Zone) mysterious ways

I am going to take exception to your statement here….Nothing personal to the lady who did all that studying and teaching about Faith, I have to be skeptical of the things that women say. Many times, they are illogical. WOW!

I am not a preacher, I am a theologian and if anything a speaker, but I have substituted for Sunday School teachers on occasion and I have participated in adult home study groups---good food. It does not matter what country I was in, as a whole I have found that women have a better understanding of the spirit of Christ and Christianity. Men can know the scriptures and debate the scriptures but a lot of times the spirit of Christ gets lost in the discussions.

So we disagree if faith is a power or a person. That is fine with me. Do you have a name for that person? More importantly do the scriptures have a name for that person? Is it the fourth person in the Trinity?

And as far as people having faith in the Old Testament, I did not say that people in the Old Testament did not have faith. I was pointing out how the Old Testament scriptures addressed the topic of faith. Yahweh never said, “And if you believe in me?” Their “rightness” with Yahweh was defined by obedience, whether it be Abraham or Moses.

The concept of the “faithful” pertained to those that were faithful to the Mosaic Law. Of the scriptures that I presented ….nothing like them appear in the Old Testament. And then you have things like the laying on of hands….and prayer.....which is a word that actually does not appear in the Old Testament.

 

[MA2444]

I am not a preacher, I am a theologian and if anything a speaker, but I have substituted for Sunday School teachers on occasion and I have participated in adult home study groups---good food. It does not matter what country I was in, as a whole I have found that women have a better understanding of the spirit of Christ and Christianity. Men can know the scriptures and debate the scriptures but a lot of times the spirit of Christ gets lost in the discussions.

Yeah maybe your right, I have heard women say very correct things also. Six of them, lol! The rest are bonkers! I disagree with the lady who wrote that article though. Better?

So we disagree if faith is a power or a person. That is fine with me. Do you have a name for that person? More importantly do the scriptures have a name for that person? Is it the fourth person in the Trinity?

His name is Faith. Or it could be a her? Scripture calls wisdon a she so maybe she is too? Fourth person in the trinity? Is Wisdom the 5th? Is Michael the arch Angel the 6th? I'm sorry I cant explain all this in detail for you, the truth is...I'm trying to figure it out myself. And I said that a couple times. I'm not being dogmatic in the least. And what I have noticed in the thread is that I explained that I watched a video about it, and they gave a scripture and I read thatand it does sorta seem to make sense.

So I started the thread and posted the supporting scripture and Concordance refrence and so forth and asked for others to comment if you have ever heard such a thing. And I see a few people getting on here and saying I am wrong....but no one has posted any scripture which would refute the theory.

Not even you, and your'e a theologian. It is a new concept even for me. I understand if it strikes some people as...that dont sound right. I can't wrap my head around that. But why cant people say that, perhaps chew on it or pray about it for awhile? But instead I get, that's wrong...and no explaination why?

You dont have to believe it, it isnt a salvific issue or anything. But I found the topc intriguing and cant really refute it so far. SO maybe you could take a stab at saying, why do you think it is a wrong theory?

If Wisdom is crying out in the street so obviously has a personification, then why couldnt Faith have a personification as well?

 

[Grailhunter]

Yeah maybe your right, I have heard women say very correct things also. Six of them, lol! The rest are bonkers! I disagree with the lady who wrote that article though. Better?



His name is Faith. Or it could be a her? Scripture calls wisdon a she so maybe she is too? Fourth person in the trinity? Is Wisdom the 5th? Is Michael the arch Angel the 6th? I'm sorry I cant explain all this in detail for you, the truth is...I'm trying to figure it out myself. And I said that a couple times. I'm not being dogmatic in the least. And what I have noticed in the thread is that I explained that I watched a video about it, and they gave a scripture and I read thatand it does sorta seem to make sense.

So I started the thread and posted the supporting scripture and Concordance refrence and so forth and asked for others to comment if you have ever heard such a thing. And I see a few people getting on here and saying I am wrong....but no one has posted any scripture which would refute the theory.

Not even you, and your'e a theologian. It is a new concept even for me. I understand if it strikes some people as...that dont sound right. I can't wrap my head around that. But why cant people say that, perhaps chew on it or pray about it for awhile? But instead I get, that's wrong...and no explaination why?

You dont have to believe it, it isnt a salvific issue or anything. But I found the topc intriguing and cant really refute it so far. SO maybe you could take a stab at saying, why do you think it is a wrong theory?

If Wisdom is crying out in the street so obviously has a personification, then why couldnt Faith have a personification as well?

You said…but no one has posted any scripture which would refute the theory. Not even you, and your'e a theologian.

There is no scriptures that prove it wrong because there are no scriptures to support faith as a being….person. Faith does not speak or decide….thinking.

Still pondering a concept is not wrong, it is still a worth while effort, but as they say, does it hold water?

 

[amigo de christo]

We do at birth and most of our lives. But when we get born again we learn a man can not serve two masters. So the battleground in the mind begins getting noisy with dissent from our soul and flesh. When we learn to make our choices based on what the Spirit says, then I think it can be said that we have overcome the flesh, however we must endure until the end and remain holding hands with Faith.

Here lets just add one tiny bit , BUT A DIRE NECESSARY bit to this very last sentence .
and remain holding hands with FAITH IN JESUS THE CHRIST . cause faith in ourselves aint faith .
Be blessed now . muslims can have all thefaith they want in their god but that god wont save them .
hindus too and any other so called god .
Faith in our own ability is faith that is vain . BUT IF OUR FAITH BE IN HE WHOM GOD DID SEND , JESUS the CHRIST
well , WE IN GOOD SHOES my friend . REAL good standing .
TRUTH is , i can do NOTHING without him , CEPT FALL FAR SHORT and FAIL . BUT IN HIM
I can do ALL THINGS . HE alone be my hope , my strength , my song , my salvation . Hope that encouraged you my friend .

 

[amigo de christo]

I am going to take exception to your statement here….Nothing personal to the lady who did all that studying and teaching about Faith, I have to be skeptical of the things that women say. Many times, they are illogical. WOW!

I am not a preacher, I am a theologian and if anything a speaker, but I have substituted for Sunday School teachers on occasion and I have participated in adult home study groups---good food. It does not matter what country I was in, as a whole I have found that women have a better understanding of the spirit of Christ and Christianity. Men can know the scriptures and debate the scriptures but a lot of times the spirit of Christ gets lost in the discussions.

So we disagree if faith is a power or a person. That is fine with me. Do you have a name for that person? More importantly do the scriptures have a name for that person? Is it the fourth person in the Trinity?

And as far as people having faith in the Old Testament, I did not say that people in the Old Testament did not have faith. I was pointing out how the Old Testament scriptures addressed the topic of faith. Yahweh never said, “And if you believe in me?” Their “rightness” with Yahweh was defined by obedience, whether it be Abraham or Moses.

The concept of the “faithful” pertained to those that were faithful to the Mosaic Law. Of the scriptures that I presented ….nothing like them appear in the Old Testament. And then you have things like the laying on of hands….and prayer.....which is a word that actually does not appear in the Old Testament.

many have faith in faith but no faith IN JESUS THE CHRIST . OH THERE IS A NAME ALL RIGHT
and our FAITH better BE IN HE and not in ourselves and our own abilities .
Without him i can do nothing , CEPT FAIL , CEPT FALL SHORT ,
BUT IN HIM and BY HIM i can do ALL things . The woman who bled had faith all right LOOK WHO IT WAS IN , JESUS THE CHRIST .

 

[Wrangler]

Are you aware that some parts of the Bible is Literal?

Yes. The present case, for instance. One hallmark of personification is capitalizing otherwise common nouns. The word ‘faith’ is lowercase, indicating it is meant literally, not figuratively - not referring to a person who goes by that name.

 

[amigo de christo]

Yes. The present case, for instance. One hallmark of personification is capitalizing otherwise common nouns. The word ‘faith’ is lowercase, indicating it is meant literally, not figuratively - not referring to a person who goes by that name.

faith and belief in budda kills , but faith in CHRIST makes alive and giveth eternal life .
faith and belief in muhammed kills , but faith and belief in JESUS THE CHRIST saveth and giveth eternal life .
Faith and love in any other religoin , mindset or god so called is death that leadeth only to the second death
but FAITH LOVE IN JESUS THE CHRIST is ETERNAL LIFE and LEADETH ALL HOME to THE FATHER who did send HIM
at the end of their faith .
LETS KEEP that in mind .

 

[amigo de christo]

HOLD the FAITH FIRM IN JESUS THE CHRIST and believe no other gospel .
HOLD all faith in HE WHOM GOD DID SEND , for that which is of anti christ grows larger by the day , INTERFAITH
is leading all to the lie and unto the second death .

 

[Gottservant]

2 Corinthians 5:7
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:).../KJV

I watched an interesting video yesterday in which statements were made that Faith is a person, a spirit of the Lord's in His Kingdom. That many dont realize that when scripture says walk by faith, it means literally in faith and belief but also by faith, beside him.

That was very intriguing to me and I've been mulling it over and I think they may have been right! But I dont really know for sure so dont think I'm being dogmatic about it. I wondered if anyone else has ever heard such a thing?

Comments?

Not to confuse things, but is faith a people?

 

[MA2444]

Not to confuse things, but is faith a people?

That's what we're trying to figure out!

 

[MA2444]

You said…but no one has posted any scripture which would refute the theory. Not even you, and your'e a theologian.

There is no scriptures that prove it wrong because there are no scriptures to support faith as a being….person. Faith does not speak or decide….thinking.

Still pondering a concept is not wrong, it is still a worth while effort, but as they say, does it hold water?

That's the thing. There's Hebrews 11:1 and it seems to say what faith is. Faith is the substance...So I wanted to know what exactly scripture meant by substance. So I looked it up in the concordance and it actually says it can be a person.

I like using a Concordance because many times a word will have several definitons in the original language of what the word means and a lot of times, subsituting a listed definition from the common usage that we use nowadays can be very different and shine light on the subject. I dont know Greek or Hebrew so the only thing I can do is to use differing definitions and try to get a feel for how it would change the common understanding of that passage and then ponder way above our heads into God's thoughts to see if it feels right and what are the ramifications of not using the common understanding and using a new different perspective.

Sometimes it makes more sense than the common understanding and sometimes it still leaves us scratching our heads! I think that if we all admit it this verse (Hebrews 11:1) even trying to use the common understanding of the verse...is a real head scratcher and always has been, lol.

I suppose the common understanding is that, Faith is the substance...ok we have faith in us somehow, perhaps in our DNA or our spirit, but it's there. Like someone said, a unseen power. But what if a different definition of substance was a more accurate translation of the passage? But should we look at it intelligently or wisely? Could Faith be an actual person?

Intelligence can be defined as the ability to think logically, to conceptualize and abstract from reality. Wisdom can be defined as the ability to grasp human nature, which is paradoxical, contradictory, and subject to continual change, I think, lol. But Soloman was the wisest man to have ever lived sans Jesus. And he spoke about wisdom quite a bit.

Someone said something about How could they have Faith if I already have, and on second thought, that's a valid point and a good question. Now our intelligence says, heck no! It's a thing or a power inside of us that God gave us all the measure of. We all know that right? But we cant forget that God's thoughts are higher than our thoughts, so perhaps it might be fruitful to try to consider that, WHat if it is true and we just dont get it. We only got one scripture so far, Hebrews 11:1 that defines that word as "person" in some instances of the language. There has to be more. Something, even a clue and then we judge the thought if it agrees with that scripture or not. It cant disagree with any scripture to be truth.

So I think we better try appling wisdom to the thought and scripture instead of intelligence. So I tried that, and there is another scripture! But does it agree? Let's see. This scripture was from the wisest man to have ever lived, Solomon.

Proverbs 1:22-25
22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?

23 Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.

24 Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;

25 But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:.../KJV

Hey, but we were discussing if Faith is a person! Solomon's just making the point that, We need to set aside our intelligence and lean not to our own understanding, and looks towards the Holy Spirit which will be poured out and He will lead us into all truth. God has stretched out His hand to us, so can we say, oh no it's just a power in us and not a person. There's our simplicity.

Oh, I'm sorry, I left a couple of Solomons verses out.

Proverbs 1:29-21
20 Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets:

21 She crieth in the chief place of concourse, in the openings of the gates: in the city she uttereth her words, saying,.../KJV

Is Wisdom another one of those things that we are used to taking the simplistic position towards? How do you define wisdom? Holy Spirit, help us! Ok so here's the point on that. If Faith cant be a person because it is a power or whatever and I (think) the common understanding of Wisdom is Knowledge of the heart? Something like that. So it's sorta similar to Faith in that it is an unseen thing within us that helps us, so how could it be a person?!

But Solomon in Proverbs states right out that, Wisdom cries out with a voice in the streets! Can a power have a voice and speak? It sure sounds like Solomon is saying that Wisdom is a she and a person!

And if Wisdom is a person, then it isnt really that far fetched that Faith could be also. I know we wasnt taught that in the early years, but perhaps it is time to grow? I think so. And solomon sort of lends credibility to the thought that, maybe Faith is a person after all?

Does that help it hold more water or sink the boat?

 

[Angelina]

2 Corinthians 5:7
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:).../KJV

I watched an interesting video yesterday in which statements were made that Faith is a person, a spirit of the Lord's in His Kingdom. That many dont realize that when scripture says walk by faith, it means literally in faith and belief but also by faith, beside him.

That was very intriguing to me and I've been mulling it over and I think they may have been right! But I dont really know for sure so dont think I'm being dogmatic about it. I wondered if anyone else has ever heard such a thing?

Comments?

Can a gift be a person? (faith) can a fruit be a person? (faithfulness) can salvation be a person? What about righteousness?

 

[Marvelloustime]

HOLD the FAITH FIRM IN JESUS THE CHRIST and believe no other gospel .
HOLD all faith in HE WHOM GOD DID SEND , for that which is of anti christ grows larger by the day , INTERFAITH
is leading all to the lie and unto the second death .