Man was not born with original sin. No such terminology jn scripture. Adam wasn't born with original sin. He committed sin as did Eve. The early church meaning what? Subsequent to the written scriptures? The church in biblical times was going off the rails as evidenced by the NT writings, let alone afterwards. You've provided nothing other than catholic nonsensical dogma that they dreamt up, not scripture.
Infant Baptism is not given in scripture.
- Thread starter Hobie
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bdavidc
Active Member
“because they formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.” ~ 1 Peter 3:20-22
Peter is not referring to water baptism here, but rather a figurative immersion into union with Christ as an ark of safety from the judgment of God. The resurrection of Christ demonstrates God's acceptance of Christ's substitutionary death for the sins of those who believe (Act_2:30-31; Rom_1:4). Judgment fell on Christ just as the judgment of the flood waters fell on the ark. The believer who is in Christ is thus in the ark of safety that will sail over the waters of judgment into eternal glory (cf. Rom_6:1-4).
You're quoting 1 Peter 3:21, but you're missing what it actually says. The verse itself clarifies that it's not the physical act of washing, “not the putting away of the filth of the flesh”, that saves. The power isn’t in the water, it’s in what the baptism represents: “the answer of a good conscience toward God, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.” Baptism is a symbol, a public testimony of the internal transformation that has already taken place through faith in Christ. Salvation comes by grace through faith, not through any external ritual (Ephesians 2:8–9). If water had the power to save, then the thief on the cross would be lost, but Jesus said plainly, “Today you will be with me in Paradise” (Luke 23:43). Baptism is important, but it’s not the means of salvation. It’s an obedient response to salvation already received through trusting in the finished work of Jesus Christ.
No, it's not the cleansing of the flesh by the water, but it's still by baptism we are united with Christ and become part of the body, so, it is baptism that saves us as the scripture clearly says; without baptism there is no salvation.
bdavidc
Active Member
So are you saying the Bible has it wrong and you have it right? That statement is not consistent with what the Bible actually teaches. Scripture does not say that water baptism is what saves a person. Salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, not by any outward act or ritual. Ephesians 2:8–9 says, “For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.” If baptism were required for salvation, that would make it a work added to grace, which contradicts the gospel.
Yes, baptism is important, it is an act of obedience and a public declaration of faith, but it is not the means of salvation. Romans 10:9 makes this clear: “If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.” The thief on the cross was never baptized, yet Jesus said, “Today you will be with me in paradise” (Luke 23:43). That alone proves baptism is not a requirement for salvation.
1 Peter 3:21 is often misused to claim baptism saves, but the verse itself clarifies it’s not about the physical act: “not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.” It’s not the water, it’s faith in the risen Christ that saves. Anyone adding baptism as a requirement for salvation is preaching a different gospel, and Scripture says that must be rejected (Galatians 1:6–9).
I do believe that if someone is truly born again, they will want to be baptized, not to be saved, but because they are saved. It’s a step of obedience, commanded by the Lord (Matthew 28:19). A genuine believer, transformed by the Holy Spirit, will desire to follow Christ and submit to His commands. If someone comes to saving faith and dies before being baptized, they are still saved, salvation is based on faith, not an outward ordinance.
However, if someone claims to be saved and knowingly refuses baptism without cause, it reveals a heart that may not truly belong to Christ. Jesus said, “If you love me, you will keep my commandments” (John 14:15), and 1 John 2:4 warns, “Whoever says ‘I know him’ but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him.” True saving faith always results in obedience, not just words, but action. If someone is actually born-again, they would want to be baptized because that is what the Lord asks us to do, if they don't, then they must be a false convert and never was born-again to start with. “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.” ~ 1 John 2:19
