I'm having a hard time understanding about baptism. I'm getting the idea that if an adult gets baptized, they must turn away from sin. But what if they slip up and sin again? Does it mean they are not saved or no longer a child of God?
I'm Confused
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If anyone is in Christ, he is not under the law (Romans 6:14) is dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19) and is delivered from the law (Romans 7:6).
This means that the law no longer condemns him from the outside and no longer points him out as a sinner.
It does not mean that he is not governed by the law from the inside (Hebrews 8:8-10, hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6; Romans 5:5).
But to answer your question, what I have written above means that the child of God cannot sin (1 John 3:9).
For sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4) and where there is no law, there is no transgression (Romans 4:15).
But more accurately, sin is not imputed where there is no law (Romans 5:13). So one might still sin though they are not trangressing, i.e. violating a specific commandment laid in front of them. Because the law is actually eternal in the heavens whether a man is aware of what it says or not.
There is also a sense in which 1 John 3:9 refers to sanctification; I have only pointed out how it relates to justification in this post.
But disregard these things if they only bring more confusion. It may take a certain amount of reading the word of God for many years before some may even be able to grasp these things.
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
What you experience is different from one to another, but I've observed some things. Some get an initial sense of God indwelling them. But then over time, they feel like God has abandoned them, and their faith is troubled. Christianity is experiential, but it tries the human conscience. If you feel God has abandoned you, just keep following your conscience. You'll be okay. Your roots keep growing in the Winter time. Later, you'll feel a greater depth and be rewarded with other great spiritual experiences.
Great now I feel this thread is offensive to people on here, God, and Jesus. Please forgive me. Please God, Jesus, and everyone here to forgive me if my question was offensive. I'm so lost
Deborah_
Well-Known Member
It may help to go through Romans 6.
When you get baptised, you declare your intention to be ruled by Jesus Christ, not by sin. Unfortunately our sinful nature remains part of us, which makes it inevitable that we shall "slip up" and sin from time to time. But there's a big difference between occasionally falling into sin and constantly living in it.
Deborah_
Well-Known Member
I could have added that there's a big difference between fighting against sin, and embracing it.
Most Christians have at least one 'besetting sin' that they are constantly struggling with. But if you are a child of God, He will forgive you every time you ask for forgiveness.
Most Christians have at least one 'besetting sin' that they are constantly struggling with. But if you are a child of God, He will forgive you every time you ask for forgiveness.
Sin is not inevitable for us as believers...it can be conquered (Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 John 2:10).
This is my understanding of salvation. It comes from decades of reading the word, seeking God, pondering it, and then the Lord pulling it all together in my head and heart.
We are 3-part beings. Spirit, soul (mind, will, emotions), and body. There are 3 parts to our salvation and there are 3 parts to God.
1. When we first believed, we came to understand that we were sinners and that the end-result of sin was death. Our spirit was dead. We also learned that it was not God's will that we should perish. He sent His one and only Son Jesus to live a sinless life and then die the death of a sinner so we could be found not guilty because we accepted His substitution for our sins. We were found innocent in God's court of law. At this time, our spirit was reborn of incorruptible seed. This means your spirit will never sin again. We also do a general repentance to start.
2. This part is called sanctification which is different from justification because it is a potentially life-long process. It deals with our soul, which is our mind, will, and emotions. At the center of our soul is our heart. The soul contains our carnal or sinful nature. Other names are our old man and flesh, though I think flesh really means the first 3 names. Our physical bodies are machines and do not sin.
There are things to deal with first and then comes the daily cross which is our cross. Jesus said that in order to follow Him, we need to deny self, take up our crosses daily, and follow Him. We get free from sin by dying to self. There are valley experiences and mountain-top experiences but through it all, Jesus has been with me. Then there is the resurrection process. This is the good part.
3. When Jesus returns, He will call us up with Him in the clouds. We will see Him and at this time we will receive our glorified bodies and we will then always be with Jesus. We will be like Him.
There is justification, sanctification, and glorification. He who was, He who is, and He who is to come.
Sin is not just things we do, but what we are. If God sanctified us all at once, we'd explode.
Everything I talk about above is in the bible. I've walked it out for 20 years and I'm glad I did. The process can be difficult but I've found it is doable with God's help. When one first believes, they are a believer. Practicing the daily cross moves one from a carnal Christian to a disciple of Christ.
Two potential stumbling blocks are 1- sanctification is instant. No, it isn't. 2- this has you recrucifying Christ. No, it doesn't. Christ died once. We crucify bit by bit. So each bit goes to Christ on the cross. Perhaps something like time-travel. I don't understand it well, but it works.
It doesn't happen all at once. Develope your relationship with God. Ask to hear His voice in your heart. This is the gift of prophecy, which is hearing God's voice. You might already have it. Before you ever decide to do this, count the cost. I didn't get this all at once, so be easy on yourself. Shalom.
It is not instant for everyone (cf. Proverbs 4:18); but it may be for some (1 Corinthians 6:11).
There is a second benefit spoken of in 2 Corinthians 1:15 and I believe that it is referring to 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24, Hebrews 10:14, and 1 John 3:9.
Also 1 John 3:7, 1 John 3:3, 1 John 2:6.
Also Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 John 2:10.
Lately, it seems to me that the gospel is 3-dimensional but most are using a 2-dimensional version. Or maybe it's my purpose. Or maybe it's because Jesus said that if one wants to follow Him, they must deny self, take up their cross, and follow Him. The Father, Son, and the Holy Bible. Cheese.
Hi, Just By Faith. I wanted to mention my response to your above post last night. In hindsight, I saw that I was suffering due to health issues and I was snarky with my last 2 posts which included you. If I stepped on your toes, I apologize. I see now that I wasn't able to post as I should've and that I needed to take a break until I was feeling more able to be respectful. Anyway, I hope your day's going well. Ron
Baptism is a sign that we have decided to turn away from sin by our repentance when we first came to Jesus and were born again or saved. At that time God forgave all our sin - past, present and future - and sees us as washed clean by the blood of Jesus. Baptism is an outward sign of that washing. But we still have our human nature which fights against our righteousness but if we confess our sin - to God not a priest - then God will forgive our sin. I always think it's like taking a shower which freshens us up.
Your question isn't offensive at all :)
When a person is baptized, they take the name of Christ upon themselves and formally become a child of God. All of their previous sins are washed away, and they are made new.
When that same person inevitably sins again, that doesn't make them suddenly stop loving Christ or Him them. It doesn't "un" make them a child of God -- that relationship still holds. They should indeed acknowledge their mistake and repent, and that stain is once again washed away. Everything still hold.
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
Well yea, if you sin you will feel somewhat lost, or abandoned by God. But God doesn't abandon His people--it just feels like it. The 1st thing you need to know is that you're His child. If you do something terrible, like murder someone, it's going to take some time to feel good with God again. But any sin can be forgiven.
So the point is, if you know you've accepted the truth of the Gospel, and have invited Christ to be your guide through life, and if you know you've demonstrated both knowledge and virtue in your life, coming from him, then you know you're saved. Water Baptism has nothing whatsoever to do with it.
It can have something to do with it. For the Holy Ghost is absolutely promised to those who receive baptism in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins (Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39; see also 1 Peter 3:20-21, Acts of the Apostles 4:10-12, Acts of the Apostles 22:16).
In Mark 16:16, if someone believes and is baptized they shall be saved; as opposed to should not perish in John 3:16. Of course, if you call on the name of the Lord, you also shall be saved (Romans 10:13).
I didn't find your question was offensive in the least. In fact, it's normal to ask this question. I know I did.
Some time ago I turned back to God and I didn't know if He would accept me. He did. He even threw a party for me. I was a prodigal. He was waiting for me and when He saw me show up at the church He wanted me to be at, He showed me His glory and other amazing things like how there is no end to His power. But the most important thing was that Abba Father showed me His unconditional love for me.
He knew everything I was and everything I wasn't. He loved me completely because I'm His child. This has never changed even though I have relapsed twice since then. But due to the good work He was doing in me, the last time I abused dope was January 31, 2004. I have health challenges but what had made me want to die for so long was gone. He took it away.
Water baptism symbolizes the death and resurrection process of the cross. We die in Him and with time, He will live in us. He died once for all. We die a bit at a time. Our cross. But don't rush it. I remember when I used to try hard to be good but He wanted me to stop because that's not how He does it. "If I don't sin, I'm saved. If I do sin, I'm lost. I repent and I'm saved again." This is 2-dimensional thinking. We have a 3-dimensional God. Ask Him to help you understand this.
I gave you a lot to think about in another post. God is the one who will do this if you so choose. You'll hear a lot about instant sanctification. I used to think like this. But it didn't help my inner pain at all. Instead, it caused me to put on a mask and when my pain got bad enough, I used. I haven't done that in over 16 years.
Be patient, don't beat yourself up, seek Him until you find Him. If you do this until you find Him, and you will if you don't quit, it will be more than worth it. Oh yeah, if He shows you that you don't hate certain sin, ask Him to give you a hatred for it. Don't give up on Him and He will never give up on you. Remember that He said, "I will never leave you nor forsake you." God saves us, not we can save ourselves. Once saved, you cannot be lost. If you believe John 3:16 in your heart, you won't be able to stop believing in Him. If you truly believe in Him and don't quit Him, He will get you to where you need to be. "Holiness is not the basis of our calling, it is the result of our calling." Shalom. P.S. don't just be a listener of the word, be a doer of it. Think for yourself. Shalom
I don't mean to sound repetitive and you may call me crazy. What if I was baptized as an teen or an adult but cannot remember?
You're not being repetitive at all :)
If you think you were baptized, that's great.
If you are pretty sure you were baptized and happen to be mistaken, I don't think the Lord will hold it against ;)
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