If You Believe Your Denomination Is...

[marksman]

No, that was Goober. lol
View attachment 10246

I don't think he will need air conditioning in this car.

 

[amadeus]

ha. what drove everyone away, while you stayed?

People could see his poor handling of his wife and told him so. He refused to seriously listen to such corrections much less do anything to improve the situation.

My own wife as usual was way ahead of me on this. She wisely stopped attending services about a year before I did. Much of what I did not see in my own naivety she told me so that I knew. It was probably during this period that I really was getting to know my Mexican friend and through him much about God.

God used my friend and my wife to teach me something about coming out of the rain.

Looking back now that is why I stayed... at least in part.

In times past there were three men who would have been in front of me for preaching or teaching especially when the pastor was absent. The reasons they left are probably similar to the reasons many of the other people left.

There was the assistant pastor who left because the pastor's wife falsely accused his wife [the assistant pastor's wife] of trying to steal her husband [the pastor]. It wasn't true but the pastor's wife, the instigator, believed it. So they were gone.

The other two brothers who were in front of me for a long time argued with each other and the pastor... and continuously pressed the pastor to let them... or at least one of them [the argument between them was mostly about which one it should be] , to sit on the platform [a special privileged place or so they believed?] Eventually he relented and both of them were given a seat on the platform, but it wasn't long before the wives of each one of them made it needful for them to leave the church as well. I won't dwell on those details, which I learned from my wife... as I rarely could see such things. They were gone as well. Do wives have anything to do with what men do?

Then by default when the pastor was gone the diminishing congregation was left in my charge during the pastor's
increasingly frequent absences. My Mexican friend was there but I was the only one who liked him and some people hated him. A house of God, right?

My Mexican friend never pressed for the platform, but because he was the primary interpreter [translating teacher/preacher messages into Spanish... I was his backup] for our growing Spanish language contingent, the pastor elevated him to the platform without request or argument. It wasn't long until the visiting overseer [used in absence of a better word] pressed the pastor to remove my friend from the platform because he had never spoken in an 'unknown tongue' to prove that he had received the baptism of the Holy Ghost. My unpopular friend whose witness had brought all of those Spanish speaking families into the assembly in the first place was then removed from the platform because of pressure of that overseer. When our Spanish speaking contingent started to see how poorly the man, my friend, was treated, it wasn't long before they were also all gone.

I never sat on the platform until the pastor began to frequently be absent, especially on Sundays. I believe that the steadily decreasing numbers influenced his increasing number of absences.

When I was left in charge I sat on the platform... but that was the only time.

I learned a whole lot in that place but most of it was not from the Bible teaching and preaching.

Why did I stay? I told myself at the time that I wanted to hear from God on it. Actually I stayed because I needed to experience some of the things I have described...even though I did not know it at the time.

My blindness was involved but I was learning to see.

 

[amadeus]

@Philip James

Amadeus said:
Sounds good and really is good insofar as God agrees with it...
Am I right while you are wrong?

Philip James said:
Is it my place to judge you?

I guess you wouldn't be surprised that some act as if it is their place. You seem to be one of the exceptions. Jesus was also an exception it seems...

"And he said unto him, Man, who made me a judge or a divider over you?" Luke 12:14

Some may say that Jesus said that about a secular matter, but was it only that...? Where is the line?

My doctrine is not my own, but that of my brothers and sisters for 2000 years.

Of course you are certain that the doctrine is not of men, or you would not stay, right?

Amadeus said:
It it necessary to agree precisely in order for both of us to please God?

Philip James said:
I sure hope not! But then again, I am not the judge.

Thank God, no man in his flesh alone is! Some most certainly do try, don't they?

I hope you would agree that we must each obey our concience... 'happy the man who's concience does not condemn him'..
but that we must also be careful not to 'sear' our concience... (quench the Spirit?)

Our conscience? If our conscience is equal to what we are hearing from God, then, yes, I would agree. When a person loves God sincerely he is not deluded; his conscience is not seared. He is hearing from no stranger. The key is found, I believe, in loving the Truth, whatever that is. Jesus said that He was the Truth! However, how many really believe that and how many effectively only pay lip service to what He said? The ones in delusion will also believe that they know.

"And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." II Thess 2:10-12

Amadeus said:
And if what you say is so, how does one know when it is that the "Church" is doing the correcting rather than some man or group of men?

Philip James said:
That's a good question! How did the churches know that circumcision of the flesh was no longer required? A council of the elders of the Church!
'it seemed good to us and to the Holy Spirit...'

Further I would suggest that the witness of Alexandria and Rome, so similar even after 1500 years, is evidence that the Spirit works through the legitimate authority of the bishops of the Church.

"Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety." Prov 11:14

What Solomon wrote 3000 years ago is still good advice, but we still have to be careful about counsellors who are also men, do we not? Are our city councils today for the various cities of our various societies always correct and in agreement with each other on how to handle this Covid-19 thing? Don't answer that! My point is simply that men with perhaps good purposes make mistakes and sometimes take selfish actions rather than seeking God's truth. That is no new thing.

What you added with regard to the Holy Spirit is what really does make the difference with God and with anyone really hearing from God, but men have twisted that as well by using what they call the Holy Spirit as the reason they are correct and the other guys are wrong. Too often the other guys use the same reason to establish that they are correct. So which is it? I know my answer, but I cannot perforce transfer my answer to you or to anyone and make it yours or theirs, can I?

Amadeus said:
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" II Tim 3:16

But as we know lots of people have access to Bibles containing what most people will agree is scripture. In spite of that they, as we have seen on this very forum, often disagree in when or what to reprove, to correct or to instruct.

Philip James said:
So many want to be bishop without understanding the responsibility that comes with it... Not me thanks, I screw up enough with the 6 that I have to answer for...

Peace be with you!

And Peace be with you!

Yes, lots of 'would be' bosses or leaders or bishops or priests of God or...etc.? The answers we have or support in themselves are not so important as our efforts to encounter and follow what God has for us and to express our love for Him as He expresses His love for us.

Back to Solomon:

"My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments:
For length of days, and long life, and peace, shall they add to thee.
Let not mercy and truth forsake thee: bind them about thy neck; write them upon the table of thine heart:
So shalt thou find favour and good understanding in the sight of God and man.
Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths." Prov 3:1-6

"The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise." Prov 12:15

"All the ways of a man are clean in his own eyes; but the LORD weigheth the spirits." Prov 16:2

"My son, give me thine heart, and let thine eyes observe my ways." Prov 23:26

 

[Hidden In Him]

The Catholic Church has always maintained that Faith and reason go hand in hand. It encourages scholarship!

Absolutely! And there are a number of Catholic teachers I respect because of it.

But we do not put our faith in men. We put our faith in Christ and the Holy Spirit to build, preserve and lead His Church despite the failings of men..

Well yes, LoL, but you of necessity are putting faith in men - some men at least - to hear Him properly and know what the Lord is preserving, and how He wants the church to be led.

See, it's this sort of reasoning that sounds great on the surface - noble, God-honoring - but when you unpack it, it ends up falling right back on the same weaknesses it asserts it is avoiding. And by claiming that man has somehow been eliminated from the equation when discussing Catholic doctrine, you elevate it to where it can no longer questioned.

I for one strongly question that it can no longer be questioned, LoL.

 

[Hidden In Him]

People could see his poor handling of his wife and told him so. He refused to seriously listen to such corrections much less do anything to improve the situation.

My own wife as usual was way ahead of me on this. She wisely stopped attending services about a year before I did. Much of what I did not see in my own naivety she told me so that I knew. It was probably during this period that I really was getting to know my Mexican friend and through him much about God.

God used my friend and my wife to teach me something about coming out of the rain.

Looking back now that is why I stayed... at least in part.

In times past there were three men who would have been in front of me for preaching or teaching especially when the pastor was absent. The reasons they left are probably similar to the reasons many of the other people left.

There was the assistant pastor who left because the pastor's wife falsely accused his wife [the assistant pastor's wife] of trying to steal her husband [the pastor]. It wasn't true but the pastor's wife, the instigator, believed it. So they were gone.

The other two brothers who were in front of me for a long time argued with each other and the pastor... and continuously pressed the pastor to let them... or at least one of them [the argument between them was mostly about which one it should be] , to sit on the platform [a special privileged place or so they believed?] Eventually he relented and both of them were given a seat on the platform, but it wasn't long before the wives of each one of them made it needful for them to leave the church as well. I won't dwell on those details, which I learned from my wife... as I rarely could see such things. They were gone as well. Do wives have anything to do with what men do?

Then by default when the pastor was gone the diminishing congregation was left in my charge during the pastor's
increasingly frequent absences. My Mexican friend was there but I was the only one who liked him and some people hated him. A house of God, right?

My Mexican friend never pressed for the platform, but because he was the primary interpreter [translating teacher/preacher messages into Spanish... I was his backup] for our growing Spanish language contingent, the pastor elevated him to the platform without request or argument. It wasn't long until the visiting overseer [used in absence of a better word] pressed the pastor to remove my friend from the platform because he had never spoken in an 'unknown tongue' to prove that he had received the baptism of the Holy Ghost. My unpopular friend whose witness had brought all of those Spanish speaking families into the assembly in the first place was then removed from the platform because of pressure of that overseer. When our Spanish speaking contingent started to see how poorly the man, my friend, was treated, it wasn't long before they were also all gone.

I never sat on the platform until the pastor began to frequently be absent, especially on Sundays. I believe that the steadily decreasing numbers influenced his increasing number of absences.

When I was left in charge I sat on the platform... but that was the only time.

I learned a whole lot in that place but most of it was not from the Bible teaching and preaching.

Why did I stay? I told myself at the time that I wanted to hear from God on it. Actually I stayed because I needed to experience some of the things I have described...even though I did not know it at the time.

My blindness was involved but I was learning to see.

Hard to read. I had to stop before the end. Makes me glad for the forum. The cliques that churches can turn into is just beyond me.

 

[farouk]

I for one strongly question that it can no longer be questioned, LoL.

@Hidden In Him The question always comes back to, "What saith the Scripture?" (Romans 4.3)

 

[farouk]

The cliques that churches can turn into is just beyond me.

@Hidden In Him What I like to say is, I belong instead with the carcasses of the discarded animals, deemed no good by the supposedly "correct" religious groups, which are good only to be burned outside and discarded entirely. It's where I belong. The Lord Jesus is there.

For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp.

12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

13 Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.

14 For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.

15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name. (Hebrews 13.11-15)

 

[Hidden In Him]

No, that was Goober. lol
View attachment 10246

That's a start!

Got a good laugh out of that one, LoL.

 

[Hidden In Him]

@Hidden In Him What I like to say is, I belong instead with the carcasses of the discarded animals, deemed no good by the supposedly "correct" religious groups, which are good only to be burned outside and discarded entirely. It's where I belong. The Lord Jesus is there.

For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp.

12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

13 Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.

14 For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.

15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name. (Hebrews 13.11-15)

Well that was rather deep. :) I'm still trying to start my day, so I'll see if I'm ready for that one a little later on, LoL.

 

[marks]

If you believe your denomination is teaching something that is closer to the truth than others, does that necessarily mean you are narrow-minded or elitist or, worse yet, look down on those of other faiths?

I would say No, it does not mean that. One does not follow the other.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Do you believe God sends some to certain Church's for "a season"? Maybe for lessons we might not even realize until down the road.

And, maybe it is NOT God sending people to certain Church's...I'm sure He is not sending His children to erroneous Church's...and I bet all of them would say that God sent them there...?

In my church, I've heard various teachings I've found false over the years. In many cases, these were corrected over time.

When my wife and I first arrived there 10 years ago, I hadn't been in the door more than 5 minutes, I hadn't met anyone there yet (we knew some people there from a home study group, that was why we were there), but even still, I knew in my heart this was my new home. Then I met Tony, who has been my friend ever since, and is working right now in the next office!

Anyway . . .

I've seen the best example I've seen in my life of Godly love from the pastor there, and I glued myself to him, to learn that love.

He's now with the Lord, and the church is closed, and his son, who is not much life him, will be the pastor, when it reopens. So that season is ended.

The doctrine, well, what can I say. They were right on in the main things. But the love! That was what I needed to learn.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Mmmm... I'd say doctrinally flawless, yes. But "doctrinally pure" sounds a little overly condemning. I subscribe to the Apostles Creed. If they can hold to that, at least they are somewhere in the ballpark of being what I'd call "doctrinally pure."

Can there be such a thing as a "doctrinally pure denomination"? Considering that these are all just groups of individual people, each as different as we all are?

Isn't the issue that we all think different things, and then sort ourselves into groups of who thinks like us?

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

Hard to read. I had to stop before the end. Makes me glad for the forum. The cliques that churches can turn into is just beyond me.

Well I did need the experiences, but still looking back it is hard to believe that people were like that. They still are and sometimes I am sure even worse. Consider the children of Israel in the wilderness who were continuously blessed and continuously were murmuring against Moses and God. Help us dear Lord!

 

[amadeus]

...my mind is now settled on both matters for good, I think.

With a whole lot of emphasis on the "I think"!

 

[amadeus]

We already have an Earnest T Bass.

But you could try Goober, or maybe Gomer...

I'll go for Gomer! I have a personal reason to connect with him. When my son was a new born I was driving for a limousine service in the San Francisco Bay Area and was given the job for a week to be Gomer's [Jim Nabors] personal driver. He was co-host for one of those TV variety shows [Mike Douglas I believe] with all of the shows being shot at Fisherman's Wharf. I got him to autograph my son's baby book for me. At the end of the week he gave me about a half dozen of his music albums [on 33 1/3 RPM records]. The records are long gone, but we still have the baby book. My son was born in 1973.

 

[Enoch111]

Can there be such a thing as a "doctrinally pure denomination"?

Denominations are groups of churches, and most of them are not following the New Testament pattern. But the church at Jerusalem was doctrinally pure: And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. (Acts 2:42).

 

[historyb]

I believe another name for traditional Christianity is maintaining the status quo where most of the time nothing happens.

No another name for Traditional Christianity is true Christianity that goes back to the Apostles as opposed to you all making it up as you go and blaming the Holy Spirit

 

[historyb]

I'll go for Gomer! I have a personal reason to connect with him. When my son was a new born I was driving for a limousine service in the San Francisco Bay Area and was given the job for a week to be Gomer's [Jim Nabors] personal driver. He was co-host for one of those TV variety shows [Mike Douglas I believe] with all of the shows being shot at Fisherman's Wharf. I got him to autograph my son's baby book for me. At the end of the week he gave me about a half dozen of his music albums [on 33 1/3 RPM records]. The records are long gone, but we still have the baby book. My son was born in 1973.

COOL! AWESOME!

 

[Brakelite]

In my church, I've heard various teachings I've found false over the years. In many cases, these were corrected over time.

When my wife and I first arrived there 10 years ago, I hadn't been in the door more than 5 minutes, I hadn't met anyone there yet (we knew some people there from a home study group, that was why we were there), but even still, I knew in my heart this was my new home. Then I met Tony, who has been my friend ever since, and is working right now in the next office!

Anyway . . .

I've seen the best example I've seen in my life of Godly love from the pastor there, and I glued myself to him, to learn that love.

He's now with the Lord, and the church is closed, and his son, who is not much life him, will be the pastor, when it reopens. So that season is ended.

The doctrine, well, what can I say. They were right on in the main things. But the love! That was what I needed to learn.

Much love!

It's a strange irony is it not that one can find a church with all it's doctrines lined up in a nice neat row, harmonises with scripture, such as...
KJV Revelation 3
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing;
, but are without love therefore
KJV 1 Corinthians 13:1
...have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
They are like...
KJV Matthew 23
23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.


Then on the other hand you can enter a church who's doctrines may not be perfectly in line with scripture, yet they effuse the love, the care, the compassion of God like no-one else. They are a joy to be with. And I know which group the Lord approves of.
Sadly, it is a rare thing to find both.

 

[marksman]

No another name for Traditional Christianity is true Christianity that goes back to the Apostles as opposed to you all making it up as you go and blaming the Holy Spirit

And I believe another name for traditional Christianity is the status quo where nothing happens.