I don't think Predestination means Salvation

[CharismaticLady]

Even Judas was "chosen." So don't give me chosen as a defense. What we do is our responsibility.

The whole nation of Israel was God's elect, but not all of them were even in Abraham's bosom, nor accepted Jesus.

 

[GISMYS_7]

Those that are "predestined" are those that God knows will become believers. God is outside time = the Alpha and Omega= the Beginning and the End. PTL.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Those that are "predestined" are those that God knows will become believers. God is outside time = the Alpha and Omega= the Beginning and the End. PTL.

How do you know if you are one or not. Not all the Jews were saved, and yet they were God's elect. Isa. 45:4

 

[CharismaticLady]

Those that are "predestined" are those that God knows will become believers. God is outside time = the Alpha and Omega= the Beginning and the End. PTL.

Can you refute my reasoning?

With scripture?

 

[FHII]

Well, you are right! Predestination doesn't mean salvation. Sometimes it means damnation.

Jude 1:4 KJV
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Good call, CharismatiLady!

 

[FHII]

How do you know if you are one or not.

We don't. And this is something I see that I wish people understood. God knows, and foreordains it and predestines it. He gives us the formula and the plan. He just doesn't tell us if we will complete it.

Predestination is a reality, but its pretty useless as God doesn't give the diploma before we graduate.

 

[CharismaticLady]

We don't. And this is something I see that I wish people understood. God knows, and foreordains it and predestines it. He gives us the formula and the plan. He just doesn't tell us if we will complete it.

Predestination is a reality, but its pretty useless as God doesn't give the diploma before we graduate.

There is only one test I've found to see if we are one or not and that is found in 1 John 3:21-24

The steps we should take to grow are found in 2 Peter 1:2-11.

 

[GISMYS_7]

ALL Jewish people WILL be saved.
Romans 25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not be conceited: A hardening in part has come to Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26And so """all Israel will be saved,""" as it is written: “The Deliverer will come from Zion; He will remove godlessness from Jacob. 27And this is My covenant with them when""" I take away their sins.”…

 

[Nancy]

Even Judas was "chosen." So don't give me chosen as a defense. What we do is our responsibility.

The whole nation of Israel was God's elect, but not all of them were even in Abraham's bosom, nor accepted Jesus.

Great point sister!!! Not to mention that that doctrine contradicts scripture. So, if the "elect" are the ones "chosen" from the foundation of the Earth and, the others were chosen by God for Hell...then why would He tell us that it is NOT His wish that ANY should perish? Cannot have it both ways.

 

[FHII]

There is only one test I've found to see if we are one or not and that is found in 1 John 3:21-24

The steps we should take to grow are found in 2 Peter 1:2-11.

Two of my favorite chapters! I do believe there is other scripture that serves as a "test" and other scriptur that tells how to "grow", but those two are fine teachings and they are enough to go on.

 

[GISMYS_7]

From before creation God knows who will become believers. God is outside time = the Alpha and Omega= the Beginning and the End. PTL. Those that are "predestined" are those that God knew before creation would choose to become believers.

 

[QuickFilly]

Even Judas was "chosen." So don't give me chosen as a defense. What we do is our responsibility.

The whole nation of Israel was God's elect, but not all of them were even in Abraham's bosom, nor accepted Jesus.

Which is precisely the meaning and import of Chosen. As well as, The Elect of God.

 

[Enoch111]

I don't think Predestination means Salvation

What you meant was that predestination is not for justification. And that is true. But predestination is for glorification, which is a part of salvation. God offers salvation freely to whosoever will come to Christ. Then He predestines believers to be "conformed to the image of His Son". Which is perfection and glorification.

 

[CharismaticLady]

ALL Jewish people WILL be saved.
Romans 25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not be conceited: A hardening in part has come to Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26And so """all Israel will be saved,""" as it is written: “The Deliverer will come from Zion; He will remove godlessness from Jacob. 27And this is My covenant with them when""" I take away their sins.”…

That would be nice. The love of my life was Jewish and he died about 15 years ago and I wondered about that. But I don't actually think he will be saved. Only those who are unblinded during the last seven years.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Two of my favorite chapters! I do believe there is other scripture that serves as a "test" and other scriptur that tells how to "grow", but those two are fine teachings and they are enough to go on.

Yes, I've read them so many times I can about recite them. LOL

 

[CharismaticLady]

Which is precisely the meaning and import of Chosen. As well as, The Elect of God.

I'm not sure you understand what I'm saying.

 

[Iconoclast]

Can you refute my reasoning?

With scripture?

Yes...I can;)

 

[CharismaticLady]

Yes...I can;)

Cute!

 

[DPMartin]

Even Judas was "chosen." So don't give me chosen as a defense. What we do is our responsibility.

The whole nation of Israel was God's elect, but not all of them were even in Abraham's bosom, nor accepted Jesus.

chosen as a defense for what? Jesus said He chose them all, in the case of then the twelve, knowing what He chose Judas for. He also knew what He chose the rest for.

 

[Iconoclast]

Cute!

Hello CL,
God chose one nation to to place His name there.If people were going to be saved it was going to be through the Covenant made with Abraham.
Not everyone in that chosen nation was elected to salvation.
Rom .9:6-11 makes this clear...not all Israel is of Israel.
After the Cross God's elective purpose goes worldwide.
Not everyone is elect, just the multitude the Father has given to the Son.

The others are left in their natural condition.
Not predestined to hell, but left to face the White Throne Judgment and will need to be 100% sinless to make it.
None are going to, in fact.
2 Pet.3:9 teaches that God is not willing that any of the elect perish, but that All come to repentance. Not one of them will be lost.;)