I am struggling with the notion of pre-destination - can flesh be predestined? (strong?)

[Gottservant]

Hi there,

So this is a doctrine of Jim Brown of Grace and Truth Ministries: that the believer is predestined to do good and go to Heaven. I haven't dug deeper than that, and already it is causing me problems (perhaps that I have not studied more deeply is part of the problem!). My problem is that the flesh is either unregenerate or regenerate, but it cannot be "forced" to be unregenerate or regenerate. In other words, the flesh will get strong, but ultimately you will have to leave it behind - you will be given a new body, perhaps one that can be predetermined (that would make sense to me). I suppose if you are going to be able to be predetermined in the next life, you can model yourself on predetermination in this life. But for that to make sense: God would have to predetermine you.

Does God want to predetermine you? Or is God predetermined to want to predetermine you? (is that why He's God?)

I hope this has been some food for thought for you, if nothing else!

 

[Taken]

I am struggling with the notion of pre-destination - can flesh be predestined? (strong?)​

Does God want to predetermine you? Or is God predetermined to want to predetermine you? (is that why He's God?)

God is ALL Knowing.

BEFORE;
* Your parents met…
* Your dad fertilized your moms egg…
* God formed your Body…
* Your Body was delivered forth from the womb…
God KNEW YOU.

Your parents EXPECTED a babe.
(They waited TO SEE.)
(They prepared.)
Your parents did not KNOW you.
You did not KNOW you.
You did not KNOW your parents.
You did not KNOW God.
(They SAW you.)
(They SAW you grow.)
(They Taught you.)

* At some point…You HEARD “ABOUT” ( but DID NOT, COULD NOT “SEE” God.)
No matter, day by day you grew, learned, matured…
* And…YOU…in your OWN flesh, Hear, Wonder, Vacillate, kind of Believe, Doubt, Hear more, Reject, Vacillate, Wonder, Hear more, Busy yourself with projects, entertainment, fun, interests, personal struggles, retaliations, Think about God, wonder where He is, Why he doesn’t intervene in your struggles and Fix your woes….common cycle for majority of humans.

* Fact is;
The missing point…
The point at which an individual is serious ABOUT exercising his OWN FREEWILL…and CHOOSING to KNOW God.

* For every choice WE MAKE there is a Consequence…sometimes we LIKE the Consequence…(and May or may not FEEL GOOD about HOW we got our WAY).
Sometimes with a good intention of CHOICE, our Consequence…IS not to our LIKING.

* Sometimes, it is Other peoples CHOICES and Corrupt or Unfair ACTIONS, that NEGATIVELY affect us…

* The Beaming QUESTION WHY does God ALLOW THAT?

* Answer…All humans are gifted with FREEWILL.

It’s a misnomer…That “IF” an individual BELIEVES in God…”THIS” natural Life we Live…will be Perfect, without want, struggles, sorrow, hurt, disgust, frustration, fear, uncertainty,etc.

Gods Offering “IS” ABOUT;
COMFORT “with Him”…THROUGH “this” Life…
(You can not be With whom you do NOT KNOW).
ABOUT:
Promises in the Future, which requires TRUST. (which you can not TRUST, what you do not KNOW.)

Predestination…Is simply God Already KNOWS YOU…(has PREPARED for you)…and “waits for individuals to KNOW for themselves,” IF and when they will choose to KNOW God, Accept His Offering, have a relationship With Him “in this Life”, AND KNOW for themselves “THEIR OWN” Destiny Forever “IS”…with or without Him.

Predestination is NOT God having Chosen FOR Humans…Rather HE ALREADY KNOWS Every individuals Choice (and has PREPARED accordingly.)

You individually, KNOW your own destiny, by your own True Beliefs…

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Ritajanice]

Does God want to predetermine you? Or is God predetermined to want to predetermine you? (is that why He's God?)

I am struggling with the notion of pre-destination - can flesh be predestined​

I was already chosen and predestined to become Born Again before the foundation of the world.

I did not choose to become Born Again.i had no say in the matter, God chose me......I did not know that God was watching me throughout my life, I never knew of his existence....sure you can read all about him in the Bible....anyone can do that....I know God in my spirit as that is where I was birthed..not by reading any bible.
You can’t know God, not until he chooses to reveal himself to your spirit by supernatural Living divine heart revelation...
What do you mean by flesh?

We were in the flesh before our spirit became Born Again, so it that sense, yes...we were chosen and predestined to become Born Again while we awaited the supernatural spiritual rebirth....while we were still in the flesh.....we just didn’t know that we were Gods elect...not until Spirit gives birth to spirit.

We were always in the flesh until our appointed time to become Born Of The Spirit....which only God knows who his elect are going to be...we certainly don’t.....

Plus when I was birthed, that’s all I knew....the Spirit has taught me through the word that I was chosen and predestined to become Born Of The Spirit....all that I know...was taught to me by the Spirit....as we are spirit children....we are in the spiritual realm of God...we are His....we communicate with him via our spirit...
The Bible confirms this.

1 Corinthians 2​

King James Version​

2 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ

Ephesians 2​

​

King James Version​

​

​

2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

 

[Scott Downey]

Well even your belief in Christ God has granted you to have, faith is a gift from above from God.
Every good and perfect thing God has given you. The result of that is you become one of His people

James 1
16 Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren. 17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning.

18 Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures.

We still have choices to make thought don't we.

Striving and Suffering for Christ​

27 Only let your conduct be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of your affairs, that you stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel, 28 and not in any way terrified by your adversaries, which is to them a proof of perdition, but [f]to you of salvation, and that from God.

29 For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake, 30 having the same conflict which you saw in me and now hear is in me.

So yes, God chose you to have faith and believe in Christ.

John 6

35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.

36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will [f]by no means cast out.

38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Many Disciples Turn Away​

60 Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This is a [m]hard saying; who can understand it?”

61 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples [n]complained about this, He said to them, “Does this [o]offend you? 62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

66 From that time many of His disciples went [p]back and walked with Him no more. 67 Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”

68 But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 Also we have come to believe and know that You are the [q]Christ, the Son of the living God.”

************************

They came to believe and know Christ because of the Father working in them as God had granted them to know the son.

All of the above is what being predestined according to the will of God is about.
None of them had any clue what would happen to them in life, but God made a choice of who He would save, which is why they came to belief.

Ephesians 1 is written to the saints about how God chose them for salvation,

1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God,

To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus:

2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Redemption in Christ​

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He [a]made us accepted in the Beloved.

7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and [b]prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, [c]both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him. 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who[d] is the [e]guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

Paul includes all believers in this working of God, as does Christ.
The apostles heard the word of truth and trusted in Christ the same as everyone else God has determined to know Christ and be saved.

 

[Windmill Charge]

My problem is that the flesh is either unregenerate or regenerate

Try reading Ephesians 2:But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Get involved with a church and serve them as you worship God together.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Hi there,

So this is a doctrine of Jim Brown of Grace and Truth Ministries: that the believer is predestined to do good and go to Heaven. I haven't dug deeper than that, and already it is causing me problems (perhaps that I have not studied more deeply is part of the problem!). My problem is that the flesh is either unregenerate or regenerate, but it cannot be "forced" to be unregenerate or regenerate. In other words, the flesh will get strong, but ultimately you will have to leave it behind - you will be given a new body, perhaps one that can be predetermined (that would make sense to me). I suppose if you are going to be able to be predetermined in the next life, you can model yourself on predetermination in this life. But for that to make sense: God would have to predetermine you.

Does God want to predetermine you? Or is God predetermined to want to predetermine you? (is that why He's God?)

I hope this has been some food for thought for you, if nothing else!

God predestinates people to salvation. He has ordained good works for an individual to do, then it is up to teh believer to obey.

 

[ScottA]

Hi there,

So this is a doctrine of Jim Brown of Grace and Truth Ministries: that the believer is predestined to do good and go to Heaven. I haven't dug deeper than that, and already it is causing me problems (perhaps that I have not studied more deeply is part of the problem!). My problem is that the flesh is either unregenerate or regenerate, but it cannot be "forced" to be unregenerate or regenerate. In other words, the flesh will get strong, but ultimately you will have to leave it behind - you will be given a new body, perhaps one that can be predetermined (that would make sense to me). I suppose if you are going to be able to be predetermined in the next life, you can model yourself on predetermination in this life. But for that to make sense: God would have to predetermine you.

Does God want to predetermine you? Or is God predetermined to want to predetermine you? (is that why He's God?)

I hope this has been some food for thought for you, if nothing else!

The original term in the scriptures is "predestinate." Which is simply and yet wrongly misunderstood. It does not mean that we are somehow programed like robots by God, or that we are sent out into the world with a list of what we must do or else. That is just the thinking of people living in what appears to be life occurring in real time...as if the alternative is that we make our own decisions as we go.

But that is not what the world is--or how it actually works.

To the contrary, that "pre" decision of our destiny--was made of our own freewill decision, made "before the foundation of the world." But who living in the midst of what would appear to be life unfolding in real time, would even think that way? Very few. However, many of those same people who do not consider the the things of this life to have occurred "before", have little trouble believing that we "were crucified with Christ" (past tense). Well...if you know the scriptures, you know that there are also several other passages that refer to things seemingly done in real time or present tense, that are written in past tense. Which is simply the higher thoughts and knowledge of the truth from God being revealed "hear a little, there a little."

Meaning...that in God's greater reality--actual reality according to God, the world is not unfolding in real time--but rather all things "were" before the world was, and are only now just unfolding as revelations to those who decided their own eternal fate before God began to make it all manifest. Which was and is evidence for or against each of us, presented before a jury of our peers "before" the Judgement. And our being last to know is His grace upon those whom chose life rather than death.

 

[Gottservant]

I think what it is, is that He predestines the good in us.

I don't think He writes us off, because there is evil we have yet to repent of.

When we commit to a "life of good", He is pleased with us.

 

[Jack]

Romans 8:29-30
29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Ephesians 1:4-5
4 He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,

John 15:16-19
16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.
19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.

 

[Scott Downey]

Romans 8:29-30
29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Ephesians 1:4-5
4 He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,
5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,

John 15:16-19
16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.
19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.

By His predestining of us, He has made our salvation secure and certain, an eternal salvation for sure. If you believe in Christ you can know that He has done His eternal working in you, that we are His handicraft.

 

[Scott Downey]

2 thess 2​

Stand Fast​

13 But we are [f]bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through [g]sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our [h]epistle.

16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by grace, 17 comfort your hearts and [i]establish you in every good word and work.

 

[Scott Downey]

1 Peter 1
1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,

To God’s elect, exiles scattered throughout the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia, 2 who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood:

Grace and peace be yours in abundance.

Praise to God for a Living Hope​

3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5 who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. 6 In all this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. 7 These have come so that the proven genuineness of your faith—of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire—may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed. 8 Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, 9 for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, 11 trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of the Messiah and the glories that would follow. 12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.

Be Holy​

13 Therefore, with minds that are alert and fully sober, set your hope on the grace to be brought to you when Jesus Christ is revealed at his coming. 14 As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. 15 But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; 16 for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.”[a]

17 Since you call on a Father who judges each person’s work impartially, live out your time as foreigners here in reverent fear. 18 For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your ancestors, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect. 20 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake. 21 Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God.

22 Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for each other, love one another deeply, from the heart.[b] 23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. 24 For,

“All people are like grass,
and all their glory is like the flowers of the field;
the grass withers and the flowers fall,
25 but the word of the Lord endures forever.”[c]
And this is the word that was preached to you.

 

[Scott Downey]

1 Cor 1

18 For the [g]message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”

20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the [h]disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. 22 For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a [i]stumbling block and to the [j]Greeks foolishness, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

Glory Only in the Lord​

26 For [k]you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many [l]noble, are called. 27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; 28 and the [m]base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, 29 that no flesh should glory in His presence.

30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption— 31 that, as it is written, “He who glories, let him glory in the Lord.”

 

[Scott Downey]

Titus 1 says only the elect will have faith, only they will have grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father. and be the saved, only they will obtain salvation while the rest are blinded.
Because God has foreknown His people.

1 Paul, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness, 2 in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began, 3 but has in due time manifested His word through preaching, which was committed to me according to the commandment of God our Savior;

4 To Titus, a true son in our common faith:

Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and [a]the Lord Jesus Christ our Savior.

Romans 11
6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. [a]But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 Just as it is written:

“God has given them a spirit of stupor,
Eyes that they should not see
And ears that they should not hear,
To this very day.”

 

[Stumpmaster]

If one's future state is used as proof of past predestination, this is the logical fallacy of circular reasoning or self-confirming statements. In other words, saying someone was predestined because they ultimately end up saved is stating the outcome to prove the premise.

 

[Windmill Charge]

I think what it is, is that He predestines the good in us.

I don't think He writes us off, because there is evil we have yet to repent of.

When we commit to a "life of good", He is pleased with us.

Three comments.
Yes God predestined us.
Yes God does not write off his chosen people.

No he is not pleased because we do ' good ' !

John14:23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

God doesn't just want ' good deeds ' he wants followers who are actively serving him living for him and doing the works he has planned for them to do.

A deed is only good if it is intended to glorify God.

 

[IronMaiden]

Hi there,

So this is a doctrine of Jim Brown of Grace and Truth Ministries: that the believer is predestined to do good and go to Heaven. I haven't dug deeper than that, and already it is causing me problems (perhaps that I have not studied more deeply is part of the problem!). My problem is that the flesh is either unregenerate or regenerate, but it cannot be "forced" to be unregenerate or regenerate. In other words, the flesh will get strong, but ultimately you will have to leave it behind - you will be given a new body, perhaps one that can be predetermined (that would make sense to me). I suppose if you are going to be able to be predetermined in the next life, you can model yourself on predetermination in this life. But for that to make sense: God would have to predetermine you.

Does God want to predetermine you? Or is God predetermined to want to predetermine you? (is that why He's God?)

I hope this has been some food for thought for you, if nothing else!

God predestined some of us for salvation before the foundation of the world. He justified us then. Why? Because He knew that we had already chosen to be faithful to Jesus then—before the foundation of the world.
Romans 8:29-30 (NKJV) 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined [to be] conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Just like in the Millennium we will have spiritual bodies, we also had spiritual bodies before the foundation of the world. We chose Jesus then and were predestined then. Yes, God knew us very well back then.
1 Peter 1:1-2 (NKJV) 1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.

 

[Scott Downey]

Romans 8, Apostle Paul explains the order of salvation for those God called to be saints

God knows His own before time began, He knew us in a relationship of love with Himself, so then v18 is realized.
18 Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures.

Foreknew -> Predestined -> Called -> Justified -> Glorified

Romand 8
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.

29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

What shall we say about such wonderful things as these? If God is for us, who can ever be against us?
Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies.
Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.

God in Christ is growing the family of God. We are chosen that Christ might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Matthew 16
Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not [a]prevail against it.

 

[Scott Downey]

Psalm 139:16
Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed. And in Your book they all were written, The days fashioned for me, When as yet there were none of them.

17 How precious also are Your thoughts to me, O God!
How great is the sum of them!
18 If I should count them, they would be more in number than the sand;
When I awake, I am still with You.

 

[Scott Downey]

Psalm 139
1 O Lord, You have searched me and known me.
2 You know my sitting down and my rising up;
You understand my thought afar off.
3 You [a]comprehend my path and my lying down,
And are acquainted with all my ways.
4 For there is not a word on my tongue,
But behold, O Lord, You know it altogether.
5 You have [b]hedged me behind and before,
And laid Your hand upon me.
6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me;
It is high, I cannot attain it.