How much does God suffer, knowing He created to suffer? (character?)

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Gottservant

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Hi there,

So I just want to dwell briefly on the fact that God does not create, such that we suffer on our own, but that God creates knowing He will suffer from His creation suffering. God suffering is why our relationship to Him is so important: without a relationship to God, there is no end to our suffering. That's not just suffering (that there is no end) that is torture! Think about it, why would God risk torture, for the sake of a relationship? It is because the suffering has a chance and indeed a good reason to come to an end. God is counting on your suffering ending, with His suffering - at least while there is yet time to believe.

So when people abuse God - blaspheme, curse, etc - actually God knows that He is going to suffer these things. The point is, God sees an end to it, because when He suffers, He suffers perfectly. God does not suffer without seeing a way out of the suffering. This is the power to overcome suffering, that there is a way out. Of course you can make it worse, you can pile torture upon torture - but who in their right mind, does that!? What I think God wants us to see, is that God suffers with all of us, knowing that this immense pain, which creation is, will oneday bear the fruit that makes it all worth it - beings with Heavenly faith and spirit.

That's what Jesus meant when He said "a woman when she is in labour has great anguish, but once she has given birth she forgets the anguish, for joy that a human being has been brought into the world" - He was talking about God suffering with us! God suffers now, indeed His pain is constantly with Him, but He knows that this suffering will come to an end, that believers will come to have faith in Him. Now if God suffering can bring us to salvation, how can God not allow suffering? And if God has given us a choice, how will He not end suffering, once every opportunity to have faith has been had? Does Hell not cut off the suffering of Heaven, in the end?

The choice we have now is paramount: it can end our suffering, and it can end God's! We ought to be praying for this, that the world would know God has not abandoned them in their suffering, but is suffering to seek them out, to bring about a change, to the suffering in their destiny. The question "why does God allow suffering?" is misleading, in as much that God does not allow "ubiquitous" suffering, but sets about to bring suffering to an end, no matter how ubiquitous it becomes - He literally steps in to the fire, to rescue those that are burning. What kind of a God does that? Only one who is far greater than suffering could ever be.

I hope this has been of some encouragment.

God bless.
 
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Arthur81

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I notice the lack of any scripture to directly support your idea of "God creates knowing He will suffer from His creation suffering". If you are speaking of the suffering servant, man, referring to Jesus the Messiah, Himself God, that should be clarified:

"He was despised and rejected by others; a man of suffering and acquainted with infirmity, and as one from whom others hide their faces he was despised, and we held him of no account. Surely he has borne our infirmities and carried our diseases, yet we accounted him stricken, struck down by God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions, crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the punishment that made us whole, and by his bruises we are healed." Isa 53:3-5 NRSVue

"Yet among the mature we do speak wisdom, though it is not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are being destroyed. But we speak God’s wisdom, a hidden mystery, which God decreed before the ages for our glory and which none of the rulers of this age understood, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory." 1Co 2:6-8 NRSVue

If you know of a verse that states that explicitly states that Yahweh suffers, you should present it. There are certainly mysteries about the Incarnation, but we should be cautious how we seek to fully understand that and refer to that as Yahweh suffering. One other verse I can think of would shed some light on this -

"No one has ever seen God. It is the only Son, himself God, who is close to the Father’s heart, who has made him known." Joh 1:18 NRSVue

You maybe could say that "God the Son" suffered on the cross; but don't we need to use caution in our theologizing without more direct basis in the scriptures, to include "God the Father"? Maybe we could consider an OT verse, but there is debate over the word "me" -

"...but I shall pour a spirit of pity and compassion on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem. Then they will look on me, on him whom they have pierced, and will lament over him as over an only child, and will grieve for him bitterly as for a firstborn son." (Zech 12:10 REB)

Maybe my reaction to your post is one of my rules for interpretation that I take from the Apostle Paul -

"I have applied all this to myself and Apollos for your benefit, brethren, that you may learn by us not to go beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up in favor of one against another." 1Co 4:6 RSVA
 
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Behold

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God has feelings., and that is why you feel.

God is Love, and that is why Love exists

God is a Father, a parent, and He watched His Son Die, horribly..........how does that feel. ?

So, God understands all this, intimately., and that is why Hebrews says that Jesus (our high Priest understands our infirmities..

Jesus understands pain, hurt, longing, suffering, temptation, dread, frustration, emptiness, loneliness, ......love, hope, joy, laughter, desire, peace...

What He never KNEW< was SIN.
The only SIN that Jesus is a part of, is when He died for all of yours on The Cross., as the sin of us all was laid on Him.

Jesus is our once and for all, sin bearer, so that we can become for eternity, = "the righteousness of God, in Christ".
 

PGS11

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The bible says God created humanity for eternal life - and what happened?Who put humanity in a fallen state and why did they do it?Was it Gods plan for this to happen?It right there at the beginning of Genesis a sinful nature came upon us all but it was not Gods intention.Its why Jesus came.Yes God is upset and sad but the plan is still in motion to bring humanity to eternal life.Jesus was and is the plan to save humanity.But people want to put the fault into all other things.Yes Jesus is very personnel to each one of us because he dies for our sins but there is a big picture that God is working for and its not for the individual its for humanity.Pretty sure it was Satan and the Fallen Angels that did this to us and to God.Shows how much hatred they have for us and for God and Gods plan for us to have Eternal life.They are willing to use all the darkest of evil to stop us from obtaining it.That battle will go on until the last day on earth.We have to see this to its end and whats going on is much higher than us.We must trust in Gods plan and the sacrifice Jesus made for us individually.God sent his only son who laid down his life to save humanity which was the Fathers will.God could of just left us on our own and wash his hand of it but he didn't the plan was to immediately save us from the evil done.Gods plan was sabotaged.You have to see the big picture not just focus on details of it.In Revelations after the fall just before Jesus enters all of heaven is looking down on humanity with great sadness at our fallen state.Next moment all of heaven is in Joy and celebration as the lamb of God enters heaven evil had been defeated heaven was given back to humanity.That is the big picture.

I don't agree God did not make his creation to suffer it was that exact opposite.Some believe God intended for it to be this way I don't its not what the bible says. People choose to omit this part of the faith not linking it to whats going on because its hard to accept but without it it all falls apart.When you accept that it did happen ( the fall of humanity) then the faith will become more clear and why all this has and is happening and what your role in it is.How many people are left that believe in the Fall of humanity? Those that don't will not be able to explain Christianity or why Jesus had to die for our sins and will have to find another reason to try to explain it causing great error in the faith.These days are coming soon it already alive in internet Christianity.
 

Bob

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Thank you all for your posts. The question of “why does God allow us to suffer” deserves much prayer, study, and thoughtful discussion.

Here is another perspective.

To begin, let us distinguish between acute pain and chronic suffering. Pain (thank you, God) tells us something is hurting/damaging us, and we need to take action. Indeed, some of the worst diseases are those for which there is no great pain until repair is too late (e.g., cancers, heart disease).

When we suffer chronically, it could mean an immediate cure is not available. But: the God of compassion commands us to have compassion, and (with His help) find ways to alleviate others’ suffering and effect cures. And so, since the time of Adam and Eve, medicine has slowly improved and can continue to do so. Thanks be to God.

God also has taken action, working through us to bring relief: e.g., Exodus 3:7; 2 Kings 14:26; Psalm 22:24.

What if God decided there was to be no suffering? Is He to save reckless people from behaviors that endanger their own bodies? Alternatively, Can our faith be strong without testing?

Blessings.
 

Gottservant

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I notice the lack of any scripture to directly support your idea of "God creates knowing He will suffer from His creation suffering". If you are speaking of the suffering servant, man, referring to Jesus the Messiah, Himself God, that should be clarified:

[...]
David says in Psalms that God can be found in Hell. How is He in Hell, but not suffering?

Jesus said "Before Abraham was, I AM". How can Jesus be prior to the Father of the Faith but not suffer (that is, be in need of his faith)?

Indeed Jesus is called "God with us". How can He be called "with us" but not be with us in our suffering?
 

Windmill Charge

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David says in Psalms that God can be found in Hell. How is He in Hell, but not suffering?

Jesus said "Before Abraham was, I AM". How can Jesus be prior to the Father of the Faith but not suffer (that is, be in need of his faith)?

Indeed Jesus is called "God with us". How can He be called "with us" but not be with us in our suffering?
You need to quote your sources. In which psalm does David say God is in Hell.

Jesus is the creator as John 1 clearly says, so he was before creation and as such was b3fore Abraham.

Jesus is with us through the influence of the Spirit.
 

Gottservant

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You need to quote your sources. In which psalm does David say God is in Hell.

Jesus is the creator as John 1 clearly says, so he was before creation and as such was b3fore Abraham.

Jesus is with us through the influence of the Spirit.
Psalm 139:8

Jesus being the Creator, does not exonerate Him from suffering - that's my whole point; the Bible says He was "slain from the foundation of the world"

Yes you are right, Jesus is with us through the influence of the Spirit.
 

TigersPaw

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I do not think God created us to suffer.
And it depends what that means. Does a Dog suffer the loss of a owner?
Does a Bird suffer the loss of a chick?
I think we suffer allot, because living things rely on other living things that are fallible.
So we suffer at our own hands, not Gods. It could be said human would suffer less if they followed God.
The same way a Dog has a peaceful life if it also follows the rules we set down.
So I think no matter whom we speak of Suffering is part of the Human condition. Its not thrust upon us.
Our acts appear to really be the cause. But, also would a man alone on a island also suffer, or find peace in solitude?
 

Windmill Charge

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Psalm 139:8

Jesus being the Creator, does not exonerate Him from suffering - that's my whole point; the Bible says He was "slain from the foundation of the world"

Yes you are right, Jesus is with us through the influence of the Spirit.
Whither shall I go from thy spirit?
or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there:
if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
9 If I take the wings of the morning,
and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea;
10 even there shall thy hand lead me,
and thy right hand shall hold me.
11 If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me;
even the night shall be light about me.
12 Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day:
the darkness and the light are both alike to thee.

Context as always is key. David is saying one cannot 3scape from God's presence in extravagant poetic language.
David cannot ascent to the heaven any more than he could descend into hell.