How did the Trinity doctrine develop in the early church?

[David in NJ]

We can only assume that you're suggesting John wrote the complex Trinitarian formula, and it seems like you're making an argument based on special pleading in an attempt to support a point that ultimately doesn't hold.

Hope you gain some sense of self fullment from that excercise

F2F

In every post of yours whereby you refute the words of the Apostle John, you are claiming to have superior knowledge and at the same time you are calling the Apostle John = ignorant and even worse, a liar!!!

You just answered the question and are in grave danger of being found as a false apostle.

 

[RLT63]

We can only assume that you're suggesting John wrote the complex Trinitarian formula, and it seems like you're making an argument based on special pleading in an attempt to support a point that ultimately doesn't hold.

Hope you gain some sense of self fullment from that excercise

F2F

Why is it that I can read John 1 without a commentary and understand exactly what he is saying but you glean some other meaning, surely it must be something that you have been taught

 

[face2face]

There's more than one mystery

There is knowledge withheld for certain, like the Lords return though his return is not a mystery as we know its going to happen just dont know when. In terms of a Mystery of knowing God - if you are implying God cannot be known then I would have a major issue with that...and you should also

F2F

 

[ElieG12]

YES and quite a few actually!!!

Here is just one Jew who knew the Truth beginning in Genesis.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

Are you wiser(more knowledgeable) then the Apostle John???

Read the whole chapter:

John 1:14 So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of divine favor and truth. (...) 18 No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is at the Father’s side is the one who has explained Him.

Read the whole book:

John 17:1 Jesus spoke these things, and raising his eyes to heaven, he said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your son so that your son may glorify you, 2 just as you have given him authority over all flesh, so that he may give everlasting life to all those whom you have given to him. 3 This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ. 4 I have glorified you on the earth, having finished the work you have given me to do. 5 So now, Father, glorify me at your side with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was.
6 “I have made your name manifest to the men whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you gave them to me, and they have observed your word. 7 Now they have come to know that all the things you gave me are from you; 8 because I have given them the sayings that you gave me, and they have accepted them and have certainly come to know that I came as your representative, and they have believed that you sent me.

John 20:17 Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’

DON'T ASK ME TO BELIEVE JOHN IF YOU ONLY READ ONE VERSE OF HIS GOSPEL.

 

[David in NJ]

Read the whole chapter:

John 1:14 So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of divine favor and truth. (...) 18 No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is at the Father’s side is the one who has explained Him.

Read the whole book:

John 17:1 Jesus spoke these things, and raising his eyes to heaven, he said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify your son so that your son may glorify you, 2 just as you have given him authority over all flesh, so that he may give everlasting life to all those whom you have given to him. 3 This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ. 4 I have glorified you on the earth, having finished the work you have given me to do. 5 So now, Father, glorify me at your side with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was.
6 “I have made your name manifest to the men whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you gave them to me, and they have observed your word. 7 Now they have come to know that all the things you gave me are from you; 8 because I have given them the sayings that you gave me, and they have accepted them and have certainly come to know that I came as your representative, and they have believed that you sent me.

John 20:17 Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’

DON'T ASK ME TO BELIEVE JOHN IF YOU ONLY READ ONE VERSE OF HIS GOSPEL.

Is this a typo? = "the only-begotten god"

 

[face2face]

In every post of yours whereby you refute the words of the Apostle John, you are claiming to have superior knowledge and at the same time you are calling the Apostle John = ignorant and even worse, a liar!!!

These are your words—John 1:1 doesn’t contain enough of the Trinity doctrine to support your position, yet you go to great lengths to try to discredit those who have a clear understanding of the passage.

That's how its coming across

F2F

 

[face2face]

Why is it that I can read John 1 without a commentary and understand exactly what he is saying but you glean some other meaning, surely it must be something that you have been taught

You are approaching the text with preconceived notions that have likely been ingrained over time. Being challenged has revealed how little you actually understand about what you thought you knew.

F2F

 

[David in NJ]

These are your words—John 1:1 doesn’t contain enough of the Trinity doctrine to support your position, yet you go to great lengths to try to discredit those who have a clear understanding of the passage.

That's how its coming across

F2F

Every TRUTH from God has a foundation upon which it is birthed and built upon.

Yes or No?

 

[ElieG12]

Is this a typo? = "the only-begotten god"

You can visit this website and consult John 1:18 in some manuscripts, and you'll learn what you don't know about that verse.

Center for New Testament Restoration

Scientific textual criticism for the Greek New Testament

greekcntr.org

 

[David in NJ]

You can visit this website and consult John 1:18 in some manuscripts, and you'll learn what you don't know about that verse.

Center for New Testament Restoration

Scientific textual criticism for the Greek New Testament

greekcntr.org

i know for the Holy Spirit has shown me

Now, back to the Truth

Every TRUTH from God has a foundation upon which it is birthed and built upon.

Yes or No?

 

[face2face]

Every TRUTH from God has a foundation upon which it is birthed and built upon.

Yes or No?

Like God wanting to reveal himself through Adam & Eve - manifesting His Divine Principles i.e separating light from darkness etc. living His Word and Commands...

If you build you understanding from these truths, Christ will become clear - if not, you have the Trinity

F2F

 

[David in NJ]

Like God wanting to reveal himself through Adam & Eve - manifesting His Divine Principles i.e separating light from darkness etc. living His Word and Commands...

If you build you understanding from these truths, Christ will become clear - if not, you have the Trinity

F2F

Every TRUTH from God has a foundation upon which it is birthed and built upon.

Yes or No?

Running away from and evading answering the simple yes/no question shows deviant behavior.

 

[RLT63]

There is knowledge withheld for certain, like the Lords return though his return is not a mystery as we know its going to happen just dont know when. In terms of a Mystery of knowing God - if you are implying God cannot be known then I would have a major issue with that...and you should also

F2F

I'm not saying God cannot be known, I'm saying the Godhead is a mystery, a supernatural thing

 

[ElieG12]

Every TRUTH from God has a foundation upon which it is birthed and built upon.

Yes or No?

The apostle John, the one who lived longer, until the end of the 1st century, never believed in a "triune-godhead".

In the year 96 he wrote about Jesus:

Rev. 1:6 (...) he made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father—yes, to him be the glory and the might forever. Amen.

 

[David in NJ]

@ElieG12 and @face2face

Last post as i depart for restful sleep.

Every TRUTH from God has a foundation upon which it is birthed and built upon.

Yes or No?

Running away from and evading answering the simple yes/no question shows deviant behavior.

 

[face2face]

Every TRUTH from God has a foundation upon which it is birthed and built upon.

Yes or No?

I just provided one, no?

Would you like another?

Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being (from the dust)”; the last Adam (also dust) became a life-giving spirit. 1 Cor 15:45

Became...

Out of interest David - if Paul was right to call Christ the second Adam - how could he do that? @RLT63

F2F

 

[RLT63]

You can visit this website and consult John 1:18 in some manuscripts, and you'll learn what you don't know about that verse.

Center for New Testament Restoration

Scientific textual criticism for the Greek New Testament

greekcntr.org

Really not helpful unless you can read Greek

 

[face2face]

The apostle John, the one who lived longer, until the end of the 1st century, never believed in a "triune-godhead".

In the year 96 he wrote about Jesus:

Rev. 1:6 (...) he made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father—yes, to him be the glory and the might forever. Amen.

Elie, you don't need to prove this truth its a fact. The weight of responsibility is for them to prove the dogma from Scripture and they know they can't. They are trapped within their own false doctrine.

F2F

 

[ElieG12]

I'm not saying God cannot be known, I'm saying the Godhead is a mystery, a supernatural thing

That is false. How could it be possible for God to demand that his servants know him and yet be a mystery to prevent them from doing so?

John 17:3 This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.

If God is a mystery as Trinitarians say, no one could know Him in order to be saved. So why does the Bible say that God's servants have to know Him?

Rom. 10:11 For the Scripture says: “None that rests his faith on him will be disappointed.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for there is the same Lord over all, who is rich to all those calling upon him. 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.” 14 However, how will they call on him in whom they have not put faith? How, in turn, will they put faith in him of whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? 15 How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent forth? Just as it is written: “How comely are the feet of those who declare good news of good things!”

The trinitarian stranger god may be a mystery, the true God is not.

 

[RLT63]

The apostle John, the one who lived longer, until the end of the 1st century, never believed in a "triune-godhead".

In the year 96 he wrote about Jesus:

Rev. 1:6 (...) he made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father—yes, to him be the glory and the might forever. Amen.

He also wrote this about Jesus:
Rev 1:8 - I am Alpha and Omega , the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was,and which is to come, the Almighty.