How can anyone fall for the errors of Calvinism ?

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Prim

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A lot of denominations have dedicated people and good people but not right.


Absolutely wrong.



Not even a little bit.



No Calvinism pretty much stomps all over logic. No purpose and no logic.



Not even a small chance.



The Bible was given to us to understand a good God not to twist the word to accuse God of being a monster. You can go through the Bible and come up with some strange conclusions if you do not under stand the spirit of Christianity.



Never said that.



No you cannot.



The Bible does not say that.



The monstrous puppet master religion....no thanks.



Evil robots on earth and evil robots in Heaven...that is strange.



It is not me that believes in once save always saved or once damned always damned.
They never done that they never chose to become gods unto themselves you say? . Grail One maybe you forget. Genesis 3:4-6 ( And the Serpent said unto the woman, ye shall not surely die 5 For God doth know in the day ye eat thereof, that your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. 6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat , and gave also unto her husband with her and he did eat.) you continue on to say that it not be you that believes in once saved always saved or that one be dammed forever. Seems that your Arminian trait continues to unfold. And Cains countenance did fall and did slay righteous Abel. Deep down you have a deep resentment and deep hatred of God. That be only something God can cure if you be one of his .
 
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Grailhunter

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They never done that they never chose to become gods unto themselves you say? . Grail One maybe you forget. Genesis 3:4-6 ( And the Serpent said unto the woman, ye shall not surely die 5 For God doth know in the day ye eat thereof, that your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. 6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat , and gave also unto her husband with her and he did eat.) you continue on to say that it not be you that believes in once saved always saved or that one be dammed forever. Seems that your Arminian trait continues to unfold. And Cains countenance did fall and did slay righteous Abel. Deep down you have a deep resentment and deep hatred of God. That be only something God can cure if you be one of his .

The devil said that....not Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve never proclaimed to be or desired to be gods.
 

Grailhunter

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You do wriggle well. But yes what took place in the garden of paradise has many topics of discussion

Can you imagine in college how many perspective there are on it.

Garden of Eden
Garden of Paradise
Paradise of Delights

Why did people want to call it a garden.....carrots and potatoes?
 

Prim

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Can you imagine in college how many perspective there are on it.

Garden of Eden
Garden of Paradise
Paradise of Delights

Why did people want to call it a garden.....carrots and potatoes?
A garden be many things including the birthplace of humanity. And the doorway to the elixir of eternal youth to those who seek her. The pursuit of the holy grail has continued in secret though all the ages
 

Grailhunter

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A garden be many things including the birthplace of humanity. And the doorway to the elixir of eternal youth to those who seek her. The pursuit of the holy grail has continued in secret though all the ages

yeap
 

dhh712

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Maybe like the idea of beating a dead horse? It is useless waste of time, but you dont know right away that it is. Please continue to contend for the faith, but like Christ says if they do not receive you, wipe off the dust of the place from your feet and move on and God will bless you on your sojourning.
Awww, thank you--but yes, it seems like it may be at that point (or beyond it).

I would not call TULIP a hyper Calvinism, not even irresistible grace, although many do, God will not be denied His will and the sheep must be saved.
To me hyper means total robotic like existence, and we know Christ called his people friends and brothers

I agree, definitely not--TULIP is straight Calvinism. I feel that hyper-Calvinism is when the balanced view which Calvinism portrays of the scriptures (it is God and man, sovereign and free will and to us we just cannot understand how that can be with our finite minds. I see it that God is so incredibly awesome and his knowledge extends so far beyond what we can ever fathom that even though he has given us free will--and I must say again that it is with it's limits for no one can come to God les the Father draw him--he still has sovereign control over everything).

A great Scripture verse which defines this doctrine is in Genesis 50:20 where Joseph describes that what his brothers had done (sold him into slavery), they meant for evil but God meant it for good. God can take the evil actions of men and turn them into good for those who are his children.

the stone the builders rejected was Christ, but for the sheep, we must be saved as Christ says it is God's will none of those, He has given to Christ be lost, except for Judas Iscariot. That is the basis of OSAS which some say is a lie here in the thread.

I feel there is a backlash again the OSAS because it is often taught incorrectly (again, lacking the balance of God and man which is so vital to understand in God's revelation of himself). If a pastor tells a new Christian, "When you turn to Jesus you are saved and there is nothing that can change that" and the new Christian doesn't continue in the word, fails to go to church and essentially falls out of the way, he may believe he is still saved even though he goes out into the world actualizing the words spoke of by John in his first epistle, "They went out of us to make it known that they were not of us, because if they were of us they would not have went out of us".

OSAS always needs to be treated as a delicate doctrine, making sure the Christian understands the verse in Philippians, "Work out your salvation in fear and trembling, knowing it is Christ working in you to do his will".

Nevertheless, to brand OSAS as a lie is to falsify the word of God as he clearly has said that no one can take those whom the Father has given him out of his hand. The thing that needs to be shown as a lie is that everyone who confesses Christ may not actually be saved. We do not know who true believers are--only God knows the heart--we can only judge by their fruits and that is a limited judgment, the limitations being greater the less we know someone.

A theologian has said that there are four kinds of people in the world: Those who are saved and know it; those who are saved and do not know it; those who are not saved and know it; those who are not saved and do not know it.

The very reason why we are guided by Sola Scriptoria and not the wisdom of this world. If mans logic decides and not Gods Divine word than we be in a very dark place.

God has blessed us with logic which we are to utilize in striving to understand him. However, we must also realize that along with everything else in the world and all the faculties we possess, our logic has also been corrupted by sin and another superiorly important thing to realize is that our logic is finite as we are finite beings.

My understanding, since we must use logic to interpret God's word, is that should our logic come to any conclusion where God's word is contradictory then our logic must be wrong. Grail says that God's complete sovereignty and man's free will cannot be because they contradict one another. However, at the very least I and Prim and I feel others on here have shown Grail where in God's word he very clearly speaks of his sovereign control over everything and we agree that He also speaks of man's obligation to freely come to Him: He offers His free gift of grace to all.

Therefore, this cannot be a contradiction. They both must be true, else God's word would contradict itself and we realize that cannot be because God's word is absolute truth, the only absolute truth there is, and it is infallible, cannot lie and can never be wrong. Therefore, in conclusion we must realize that is is our own finite minds that cannot comprehend it.

We are not commanded by God to understand Him exhaustively. I understand that to be able to do that--understand God exhaustively--then we would also be god. If someone claims to be able to understand something which they believe is god exhaustively, I would claim that the god they understand is a figment of their imagination, because it can be contained within the limits of their own mind. The true God, rather, is infinite. What he gives us of Himself in His revelation is not an exhaustive explanation of Him. He give us what we need to know in order to be saved and what our duties are unto Him. That is it.
 
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Grailhunter

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Grail says that God's complete sovereignty and man's free will cannot be because they contradict one another. However, at the very least I and Prim and I feel others on here have shown Grail where in God's word he very clearly speaks of his sovereign control over everything and we agree that He also speaks of man's obligation to freely come to Him: He offers His free gift of grace to all.

Unfortunately this is not what is called OSAS nor Calvinism either.....you are wanting to sweeten the deal...LOL
Unconditional Election...no if's
Limited Atonement...Christ death was only for those that God chose at the beginning of the world. The rest are damned before they are born.
Irresistible Grace...no if's
Perseverance of the Saints...no if's....Before creation God choose who would be saved and who would be damned and no changing it. Of course a Calvinist does not know if they are saved or damned. No popup indicator. Which makes for some humorous behavior through history.
 

Behold

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I would never join any group that gets their beliefs using scripture to dismiss and contradict other scripture. Most do not know Calvin was a Roman Catholic lawyer that became a theologian, and the apple didn’t fall far from the tree. The gospel was given and paid for by Jesus not the Apostle Paul. Paul taught the very same gospel as Jesus. The good news is even though we have all sinned against God if you will believe and place your faith in Jesus repent and follow Jesus you will be saved just as Paul told the jailer what he had to do be saved was believe.

People fall for the "errors of calvinism" just like they fall for the errors of the "Cult of Mary" or "Mormonism" or JW, or any other doctrine of devils taught by a Cult.

They fell for it, because they never understood The Cross, and Calvin is a way to misunderstand The Cross of Christ that is very enticing to your flesh, and to your pride.

He's captured Billions of People, with his mental stronghold Theology.
 

Ronald Nolette

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People fall for the "errors of calvinism" just like they fall for the errors of the "Cult of Mary" or "Mormonism" or JW, or any other doctrine of devils taught by a Cult.

They fell for it, because they never understood The Cross, and Calvin is a way to misunderstand The Cross of Christ that is very enticing to your flesh, and to your pride.

He's captured Billions of People, with his mental stronghold Theology.
UNSUBSTANTIATED OPINION WHICH IS JUST GARBAGE. Care to back up your vitriol about the five points with what god has to say? all we have is your opinions and last I looked you are not God.
 

Behold

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UNSUBSTANTIATED OPINION WHICH IS JUST GARBAGE.

I wonder who led you into Calvinism?

It wasn't the Holy Spirit.

You'll find this out one day.

So, Calvinism is Cross Denying Heresy, that tries to "cherry pick" whom God will Save, according to Calvin, and also according to TULIP. (Hyper- Calvinism).
That is incredibly insulting to The Cross of Christ...
When in Fact the Blood and Death of Jesus, is God's FREE offer of Salvation and JUSTIFICATION..... to and for : "ALL who will believer" and "Whosoever will Believer".

Just read John 3:16, if you own a bible, and discover that you have wasted over 30 yrs, being Calvin's duped Disciple.

That's not a good testamony for the cause of CHRIST, , but its definitely yours for the cause of CALVINISM, @Ronald Nolette

And did you want to shout out your Calvinism and TULIP more now?

Feel that obsessive URGE again do you???

Go right ahead, as what else can you offer, and a few others here on This Forum.?

A.) Nothing
 
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Ronald Nolette

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I wonder who led you into Calvinism?

It wasn't the Holy Spirit.

You'll find this out one day.

So, Calvinism is Cross Denying Heresy, that tries to "cherry pick" whom God will Save, according to Calvin, and also according to TULIP. (Hyper- Calvinism).
That is incredibly insulting to The Cross of Christ...
When in Fact the Blood and Death of Jesus, is God's FREE offer of Salvation and JUSTIFICATION..... to and for : "ALL who will believer" and "Whosoever will Believer".

Just read John 3:16, if you own a bible, and discover that you have wasted over 30 yrs, being Calvin's duped Disciple.

That's not a good testamony for the cause of CHRIST, , but its definitely yours for the cause of CALVINISM, @Ronald Nolette

And did you want to shout out your Calvinism and TULIP more now?

Feel that obsessive URGE again do you???

Go right ahead, as what else can you offer, and a few others here on This Forum.?

A.) Nothing
you love bloviating without adding one piece of Scripture to defend your own opinions.

As for John 3:16 your error here is you lack a basic understanding of simple grammar.

This is a simple declaratory statement! All it says is that whoever does A (believe on Jesus) then B will happen (not perish) It has and says nothing to do with how one gets saved or by what mechanism a person gets saved it simply says that whoever does A then B will happen.

But to refresh peoples memories and those that may consider your lying opinions above, here are a few verses that prove you are wrong and once again made false statements and are busy slandering the brethren of Jesus!

John 1:12-13

King James Version

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

It is not man's will but God's will.

John 15:16
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

John 15:19
If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

John 6:37
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Jesus chooses us (not the pother way around) and we were given to Jesus by God the Father. where is your vaunted free will????????????????????

Ephesians 1:4

King James Version

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

ONce again God chose us before He created anything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1 Corinthians 2:14

King James Version

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Romans 8:8

King James Version

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.​

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

How can an saved person in the flesh make a choice pleasing to God when
god says those in the flesh are incapable of doing so?????????????????????????

Romans 9:14-24

King James Version

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

If you dare answer, please bring Scripture to bear instead of your own fanciful musings, or do not waste all the brethrens time on this thread.
 
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Behold

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you love bloviating without adding one piece of Scripture to defend your own opinions.

I consistently post verses, used by lying Calvinists, to prove that Calvinism, and its twin bastard "5 Points", are Satanic.

Let me show you one MR 5-Points.

"Jesus came into the world to SAVE Sinners".

Now, how does a lying disciple of Hyper-Calvinism , teach that today in their Cult, from the pulpit or in a SS Class ?

Like this....Let me show you.

"now notice CLASS.........we see that the NT verse says that Jesus came into the world to save SINNERS........but, that is not what the verse means....what the verse means, according to My Master John Calvin and the 5 Points, is.... Jesus came into the world to die on The Cross only for the pre-destined to be saved......not for ALL Sinners, as John 3:16 defined as the WORLD"...
 

Behold

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CALVINISTS and the 5-Point Hyper-Calvinists, lead you to CALVIN and "TULIP", not to Christ, as that is what this doctrine of devils causes them to have to try to do.
A Calvinist and a Hyper-Calvinist the "5-point" version (TULIP) have to try to SELL YOU, this Doctrine.


CALVINISTS, lead you to CALVIN and Hyper-Calvinism 5-Point= "TULIP", and not to Christ.

Remember that....



Now, When Hyper-Calvinism ...."Pre-destines" only some (the elect) to be "chosen" to have faith, then this Satanic Doctrine is limiting The Cross.. which absolutely denies it.
This Doctrine denies God's GRACE.

= Galatians 1:8

This theological psychotic doctrine of devils, refuses to allow The Cross of Christ to be for "the WORLD."
So, just RIP John 3:16 out of the Bible.

Just start rewriting verses like this...

"Jesus came into the world to save SINNERS".... into TULIP and CALVINISM... Like this..>"Jesus came into the world to only save the pre-destined Elect".

Or this one.."Christ came into the WORLD, to seek and save the LOST" or "Save that which was lost">..........So now.., lets Calvinize and TULIP This verse..... "Christ came into the world to only seek and save the Pre-destined Elect"...

READER, isn't everyone "LOST" before you are SAVED? Were you not "LOST"< before you trusted in Christ?

WE WERE ALL "LOST">.. and "Christ came to seek and save THE LOST">......... but not according to Calvinism and TULIP>.. as they teach that unless you are one of the "pre-destined" then you will STAY LOST and can't ever be saved... according to GOD's will for you.


Just find all the verse in the NT, that say """ALL, and WHOSOEVER, and AS MANY"".........where these verses are talking about anyone and everyone can Trust in Christ, and then CALVINIZE them and TULIP them, into... "elect" "pre-destined".. as that is what these 2 doctrine of Devils do to every verse that says "EVERYONE".. and "ALL"....and "WHOSOEVER".

This demonic theology changes the GIFT of The CROSS into...>"only some can have it".. and that makes this Theology so utterly Satanic.

Calvinism and TULIP.... has God choosing some people to be born to go to Hell, and burn in the lake of fire...
This means that some people, according to this Doctrine of Devils, are not allowed to be saved by JESUS
This LIMITING the Grace of God, to Calvin's idea of "pre-destined elect".. and TULIPS idea of "pre-destined" elect, is so insulting to the Truth of God's Mercy.......and that makes this hellish doctrine, ... the Trophy of Satanic FAKE "christian" theology.

This Doctrine has incredible demonic power to take your mind, almost instantly and cause you to "see" it, as if its TRUE.
Its truly a Satanic Masterpiece, and Who but Satan would center this entire Throne of Lies that are Calvinism and TULIP, against the very CROSS of Christ and the Grace of God. !

Its a mind blinding Satanic theology and it'll grab a person's mind, and have them preaching CALVINISM and "TULIP", for life, once it takes control of their mind.

Just remember that CHRISTIANS, lead you to CHRIST.

CALVINISTS, lead you to CALVIN and "TULIP", not to Christ.
 

Ronald Nolette

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I consistently post verses, used by lying Calvinists, to prove that Calvinism, and its twin bastard "5 Points", are Satanic.

Let me show you one MR 5-Points.

"Jesus came into the world to SAVE Sinners".

Now, how does a lying disciple of Hyper-Calvinism , teach that today in their Cult, from the pulpit or in a SS Class ?

Like this....Let me show you.

"now notice CLASS.........we see that the NT verse says that Jesus came into the world to save SINNERS........but, that is not what the verse means....what the verse means, according to My Master John Calvin and the 5 Points, is.... Jesus came into the world to die on The Cross only for the pre-destined to be saved......not for ALL Sinners, as John 3:16 defined as the WORLD"...
We teach that and believe that! You should post the book and verse it makes it easier or is that too hard for an Armeniast disciple to do?? As all are sinners anyone Jesus saves is a sinner. but once again oh benighted one- that verse says nothing about how or by what method a sinner gets saved! It just says Jesus came to save sinners!

Now as to your last paragraph. Once again I am calling you out as a liar! for Jesus is the acceptable sacrifice for everyone's sins, but only the saved benefit from that death and resurrection. If one does not receive Christ it doesn't matter that Jesus died for their sins- they are lost lost lost!!!!!!!

Now how about rebutting these verses from God Himself:

Romans 9:14-24

King James Version

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Now class as Mr. Behold fails to recognize is one simple fact- all humanity is condemned ! No one can earn salvation and god is under no obligation to provide salvation for a single soul! the only way we can know if god can and does save people is through His Word and not a certain individuals bloated opinions.

The verses I posted above show an unsaved man cannot and will not choose god in and of themselves- mankind by themselves are incapable of making that eternal choice.
 

Behold

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Once again I am calling you out as a liar!

Calvin's deceived one is calling me a "liar".

Think on that. @Ronald Nolette


If one does not receive Christ


TULIP and the 5 Points does not allow you to "receive Christ", unless you are "chosen" and "pre-destined".

We previously had a discussion that you ran from, when i informed you that Calvinism and 5_points, does not offer "pre-destined" salvation, to everyone..
So, that means that according to the Doctrine that owns you.. .. some of your family were not chosen.

I dont blame you for trying not to thing about that heinous part of the 5-points that is a fact........but if you do ever think about it, it might lead you to get away from this Satanic Theology.

So, Dont lie to these members,, as you know that what you teach, does not allow EVERYONE the opportunity that THE CROSS actually provides. @Ronald Nolette .

At least be honest when you are selling Calvins Lies and the "5-Point" Satanic Deception that owns you and has deceived at least 4 others on the Forum.
 
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Scott Downey

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Only those born of God receive Christ
Specifically excluded is our natural will, we are not willing to come to Christ unless first born of God, then we are willing to come.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.
11 He came to His [c]own, and His [d]own did not receive Him.

12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the [e]right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:
13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.


There is a divine order here and it agrees with other verses, such as John 3, john 6 and found in other places

3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born [a]again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”

5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

John 6

64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.
65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

Luke 10

22 All[g] things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.
10 And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?”

Matthew 13

11 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the [a]mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him.

It stands to reason that if it has not been given to some to know Christ, then God has not chosen them to be saved.
God has not chosen all to be saved, and then leaves it up to a person to figure it out on their own.

Christ aids people to salvation, but specifically who does He aid? The foreknown to God children of God, as in Abrahams' true children, his seed. Recall Paul said for the believers, Abraham is the father of us all, as an example by faith. And unless a person has faith they cannot be saved, and the faith that saves is gifted , given to those God has chosen to know Christ.

Hebrews 2


And again:

“Here am I and the children whom God has given Me.”

14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For indeed He does not [h]give aid to angels, but He does [i]give aid to the seed of Abraham.

17 Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that He Himself has suffered, being [j]tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.

Who are these 'HIS BRETHREN'? Why they are the children God gave to Christ, as in granted them to come to Christ.
Who are these 'people' that Christ makes propitiation for their sins? The children God gave to Christ, as only they have their sins forgiven.

Unbelievers die in their sins unforgiven experiencing God's wrath.

OH, and there is a difference between making propitiation for an individual's sins and being the propitiation for sin.
making propitiation involves an action on behalf of an individual, the other is just what they can do.

Romans 4, would anyone reading this dare suggest the unbelieving world has had their sins not imputed to them by God because of the cross?

John 8:24
Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”
 

Ronald Nolette

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Aug 24, 2020
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So, Dont lie to these members,, as you know that what you teach, does not allow EVERYONE the opportunity that THE CROSS actually provides. @Ronald Nolette .
Even you know that every year, hundreds of millions of people have no opportunity to receive the opportunity the cross provides because they never heard the gospel once and die without a chance of salvation.

You just dislike what Gods word says because He is at odds with your agenda.
 
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