There is no resurrection life unless one dies...so I seek to die, not be saved. The kingdom of God is not like this world.
How are we to reckon ourselves as being dead to sin?
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Romans 6
New International Version
Dead to Sin, Alive in Christ
6 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his.6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with,[a] that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.
8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. 14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.
Slaves to Righteousness
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means! 16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin,which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance. 18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.19 I am using an example from everyday life because of your human limitations. Just as you used to offer yourselves as slaves to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer yourselves as slaves to righteousness leading to holiness.20 When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. 21 What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! 22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in[b] Christ Jesus our Lord.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
@Christophany
It helps to bear in mind why we call it "communion," since Communion is intended to be a memorial of the the cross of Christ and what we all share in common. Thus the word "communion" = remembering what we all share in common, which is eternal life in Jesus Christ our Lord.
How ironic that some in Corinth were not willing to share food with other believers. They came to remember what they all shared in common, but in truth, they weren't even willing to share food in common? This is a classic example of "deed confuting belief." I claim to have communion with other believers but I won't share my food with other believers?
See what was happening there?
In general, I think, Paul's advice to us would be, "never allow your behavior to discredit your beliefs."
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
That is what is so scary.
What good is it if we walk like Christ talk like Christ. And pretend to be a christian if we are nto saved. ‘We will be lost forever.. We will be one of the ones Jesus says depart from me for I never knew you
This comment of yours just proves that your gospel is false.
I am just stating the fact.. You seem to think you will spend eternity with Christ and not be saved, that he will allow you into his family while dead in sin.
See, you have it all wrong. We are not seeking to save our LIVES On this earth.. we are seeking to be saved from SPIRITUAL DEATH and Adopted into Gods family. So we can be saved for ETERNITY (eternal life). We want to be saved from the curse of the law. The curse of death, The curse of The penalty of sin which is death.
What good is it is you spend 40 years selfless sacrifice here in earth if you will spend billions upon billions of years in eternity apart from God? Because you decided like the pharisee you did not need to be Rescued and made alive in Christ.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
You will die forever.
Unless you seek to be Crucified with Christ, by him baptizing you into his death.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Its amazing how many times this passage has been used to show
1. How we are to recon ourselves dead to Sin
2. How we have died with Christ
3. And it’s all a work of God.
Did you know that most in this passage is Aorist, Middle Passive. Active, Perfect--that WE are to reckon ourselves dead--
"into Christ Jesus" The use of eis (into) parallels the Great Commission of Matt. 28:19, where new believers are baptized eis (into) the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. The preposition is also used to describe the believers being baptized by the Spirit into the body of Christ in 1 Cor. 12:13. Eis in this context is synonymous with en (in Christ) in Rom. 6:11, which is Paul's favorite way to denote believers. It is a locative of sphere. Believers live and move and have their being in Christ. These prepositions express this intimate union, this sphere of fellowship, this vine and branch relationship. Believers identify with and join with Christ in His death (cf. Rom. 6:6; 8:17), in His resurrection (cf. Rom. 6:5), in His obedient service to God, and in His Kingdom!
"into His death. . .we have been buried with Him" Baptism by immersion illustrates death and burial (cf. Rom. 6:5 and Col. 2:12). Jesus used baptism as a metaphor for His own death (cf. Mark 10:38-39; Luke 12:50). The emphasis here is not a doctrine of baptism, but of the Christian's new, intimate relationship to Christ's death and burial. Believers identify with Christ's baptism, with His character, with His sacrifice, with His mission. Sin has no power over believers!
6:4 "we have been buried with Him through baptism into death" In this chapter, as is characteristic of all of Paul's writing, he uses many sun (with) compounds (e.g., three in Eph. 2:5-6).
1. sun + thaptō = co-buried, Rom. 6:4; Col. 2:12; also note Rom. 6:8
2. sun + phuō = co-planted, Rom. 6:5
3. sun + stauroō = co-crucified, Rom. 6:6; Gal. 2:20
4. sun + zaō = co-exist, Rom. 6:8; 2 Tim. 2:11 (also has co-died and co-reign)
"so we too might walk in newness of life" This is an aorist active subjunctive. The expected result of salvation is sanctification. Because believers have received God's grace through Christ and have been indwelt by the Spirit, their lives must be different. Our new life (zoē) does not bring us salvation, but it is the result of salvation (cf. Rom. 6:16, 19; 8:4; 13:13; 14:15; and Eph. 1:4; 2:8-9,10; James 2:14-26). This is not an either/or question, faith or works, but there is a sequential order.
"newness of life" This is "new" in quantity, not just new in time. It is used in a variety of ways in the NT to speak of the radical change the Messiah brings. It is the new age, cf. Isaiah 40-66.
1. new covenant, Luke 22:20; 1 Cor. 11:25; 2 Cor. 3:6; Heb. 8:8,13; 9:15
2. new commandment, John 13:34; 1 John 2:7,8; 2 John 5
3. new creation, 2 Cor. 5:17; Gal. 6:15
4. newness of life, Rom. 6:4
5. newness of spirit, Rom. 7:6
6. new man, Eph. 2:15; 4:24
7. new heavens and earth, 2 Pet. 3:13; Rev. 21:1 (cf. Isa. 66:22)
8. new name, Rev. 2:17; 3:12 (cf. Isa. 62:2)
9. new Jerusalem, Rev. 3:12; 21:2
10. new song, Rev. 5:9; 14:3 (cf. Isa. 42:10)
"Christ was raised" In this context the Father's acceptance and approval of the Son's words and works are expressed in two great events.
1. Jesus' resurrection from the dead
2. Jesus' ascension to the Father's right hand
All three persons of the Trinity were involved in raising Jesus from the realm of the dead. See full note at Rom. 6:9 and 8:11.
"the glory of the Father" For "glory" For "Father" Rom. 1:7.
6:5 "if" This is afirst class conditional sentence, which is assumed to be true from the writer's perspective or for his literary purposes. Paul assumed his readers were believers.
"we have become united with Him" This is a perfect active indicative which could be translated, "have been and continue to be joined together" or "have been or continue to be planted together with." This truth is theologically analogous to "abiding" in John 15. If believers have been identified with Jesus' death (cf. Gal. 2:19-20; Col. 2:20; 3:3-5), theologically they should be identified with His resurrection life (cf. Rom. 6:10).
This metaphorical aspect of baptism as death was meant to show
1. we have died to the old life, the old covenant
2. we are alive to the Spirit, the new covenant
6:6
NASB"knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him"
NKJV"knowing this, that our old man was crucified with him"
NRSV"We know that our old self was crucified with him"
TEV"And we know this: our old being has been put to death with Christ on his cross"
NJB"We must realize that our former selves have been crucified with him"
This is an aorist passive indicative meaning "our old self has been once for all crucified by the Spirit." The passive voice denotes divine agency. This truth is crucial to victorious Christian living. Believers must realize their new relationship to sin (cf. Gal. 2:20; 6:14). Mankind's old fallen self (Adamic nature) has died with Christ (cf. Rom. 6:7; Eph. 4:22 and Col. 3:9). As believers we now have a choice about sin as Adam originally did.
Bob Utley.
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DISCUSSION QUESTIONS
This is a study guide commentary, which means that you are responsible for your own interpretation of the Bible. Each of us must walk in the light we have. You, the Bible, and the Holy Spirit are priority in interpretation. You must not relinquish this to a commentator.
These discussion questions are provided to help you think through the major issues of this section of the book. They are meant to be thought-provoking, not definitive.
1. How are good works related to salvation (cf. Eph. 2:8-9,10)?
2. How is continual sin in the life of the believer related to salvation (cf. 1 John 3:6,9)?
3. Does the chapter teach "sinless perfection?"
4. How is Romans 6 related to Romans 5 and 7?
5. Why is baptism discussed here?
6. Do Christians retain their old nature? Why?
7. What is the implication of present tense verbals dominating Rom. 6:1-14 and aorist tense verbals in 15-23?
This is a study guide commentary, which means that you are responsible for your own interpretation of the Bible. Each of us must walk in the light we have. You, the Bible, and the Holy Spirit are priority in interpretation. You must not relinquish this to a commentator.
These discussion questions are provided to help you think through the major issues of this section of the book. They are meant to be thought-provoking, not definitive.
1. How are good works related to salvation (cf. Eph. 2:8-9,10)?
2. How is continual sin in the life of the believer related to salvation (cf. 1 John 3:6,9)?
3. Does the chapter teach "sinless perfection?"
4. How is Romans 6 related to Romans 5 and 7?
5. Why is baptism discussed here?
6. Do Christians retain their old nature? Why?
7. What is the implication of present tense verbals dominating Rom. 6:1-14 and aorist tense verbals in 15-23?
The body of sin (τὸ σῶμα τῆς ἁμαρτίας)
Σῶμα in earlier classical usage signifies a corpse. So always in Homer and often in later Greek. So in the New Testament, Mat_6:25; Mar_5:29; Mar_14:8; Mar_15:43. It is used of men as slaves, Rev_18:13. Also in classical Greek of the sum-total. So Plato: τὸ τοῦ κόσμου σῶμα the sum-total of the world (“Timaeus,” 31).
The meaning is tinged in some cases by the fact of the vital union of the body with the immaterial nature, as being animated by the ψυξή soul, the principle of individual life. Thus Mat_6:25, where the two are conceived as forming one organism, so that the material ministries which are predicated of the one are predicated of the other, and the meanings of the two merge into one another.
In Paul it can scarcely be said to be used of a dead body, except in a figurative sense, as Rom_8:10, or by inference, 2Co_5:8. Commonly of a living body. It occurs with ψυχή soul, only 1Th_5:23, and there its distinction from ψυχή rather than its union with it is implied. So in Mat_10:28, though even there the distinction includes the two as one personality. It is used by Paul:
1. Of the living human body, Rom_4:19; 1Co_6:13; 1Co_9:27; 1Co_12:12-26.
2. Of the Church as the body of Christ, Rom_12:5; 1Co_12:27; Eph_1:23; Col_1:18, etc. Σάρξ flesh, never in this sense.
3. Of plants and heavenly bodies, 1Co_15:37, 1Co_15:40.
4. Of the glorified body of Christ, Php_3:21.
5. Of the spiritual body of risen believers, 1Co_15:44.
It is distinguished from σάρξ flesh, as not being limited to the organism of an earthly, living body, 1Co_15:37, 1Co_15:38. It is the material organism apart from any definite matter. It is however sometimes used as practically synonymous with σάρξ, 1Co_7:16, 1Co_7:17; Eph_5:28, Eph_5:31; 2Co_4:10, 2Co_4:11. Compare 1Co_5:3 with Col_2:5. An ethical conception attaches to it. It is alternated with μέλη members, and the two are associated with sin (Rom_1:24; Rom_6:6; Rom_7:5, Rom_7:24; Rom_8:13; Col_3:5), and with sanctification (Rom_12:1; 1Co_6:19 sq.; compare 1Th_4:4; 1Th_5:23). It is represented as mortal, Rom_8:11; 2Co_10:10; and as capable of life, 1Co_13:3; 2Co_4:10.
In common with μέλη members, it is the instrument of feeling and willing rather than σάρξ, because the object in such cases is to designate the body not definitely as earthly, but generally as organic, Rom_6:12, Rom_6:13, Rom_6:19; 2Co_5:10. Hence, wherever it is viewed with reference to sin or sanctification, it is the outward organ for the execution of the good or bad resolves of the will.
The phrase body of sin denotes the body belonging to, or ruled by, the power of sin, in which the members are instruments of unrighteousness (Rom_6:13). Not the body as containing the principle of evil in our humanity, since Paul does not regard sin as inherent in, and inseparable from, the body (see Rom_6:13; 2Co_4:10-12; 2Co_7:1. Compare Mat_15:19), nor as precisely identical with the old man, an organism or system of evil dispositions, which does not harmonize with Rom_6:12, Rom_6:13, where Paul uses body in the strict sense. “Sin is conceived as the master, to whom the body as slave belongs and is obedient to execute its will. As the slave must perform his definite functions, not because he in himself can perform no others, but because of His actually subsistent relationship of service he may perform no others, while of himself he might belong as well to another master and render other services; so the earthly σῶμα body belongs not of itself to the ἁμαρτία sin, but may just as well belong to the Lord (1Co_6:13), and doubtless it is de facto enslaved to sin, so long as a redemption from this state has not set in by virtue of the divine Spirit” (Rom_7:24 : Dickson).
Destroyed
See on Rom_3:3.
He that is dead (ὁ ἀποθανὼν)
Rev., literally, he that hath died. In a physical sense. Death and its consequences are used as the general illustration of the spiritual truth. It is a habit of Paul to throw in such general illustrations. See Rom_7:2.
Vincent.
Σῶμα in earlier classical usage signifies a corpse. So always in Homer and often in later Greek. So in the New Testament, Mat_6:25; Mar_5:29; Mar_14:8; Mar_15:43. It is used of men as slaves, Rev_18:13. Also in classical Greek of the sum-total. So Plato: τὸ τοῦ κόσμου σῶμα the sum-total of the world (“Timaeus,” 31).
The meaning is tinged in some cases by the fact of the vital union of the body with the immaterial nature, as being animated by the ψυξή soul, the principle of individual life. Thus Mat_6:25, where the two are conceived as forming one organism, so that the material ministries which are predicated of the one are predicated of the other, and the meanings of the two merge into one another.
In Paul it can scarcely be said to be used of a dead body, except in a figurative sense, as Rom_8:10, or by inference, 2Co_5:8. Commonly of a living body. It occurs with ψυχή soul, only 1Th_5:23, and there its distinction from ψυχή rather than its union with it is implied. So in Mat_10:28, though even there the distinction includes the two as one personality. It is used by Paul:
1. Of the living human body, Rom_4:19; 1Co_6:13; 1Co_9:27; 1Co_12:12-26.
2. Of the Church as the body of Christ, Rom_12:5; 1Co_12:27; Eph_1:23; Col_1:18, etc. Σάρξ flesh, never in this sense.
3. Of plants and heavenly bodies, 1Co_15:37, 1Co_15:40.
4. Of the glorified body of Christ, Php_3:21.
5. Of the spiritual body of risen believers, 1Co_15:44.
It is distinguished from σάρξ flesh, as not being limited to the organism of an earthly, living body, 1Co_15:37, 1Co_15:38. It is the material organism apart from any definite matter. It is however sometimes used as practically synonymous with σάρξ, 1Co_7:16, 1Co_7:17; Eph_5:28, Eph_5:31; 2Co_4:10, 2Co_4:11. Compare 1Co_5:3 with Col_2:5. An ethical conception attaches to it. It is alternated with μέλη members, and the two are associated with sin (Rom_1:24; Rom_6:6; Rom_7:5, Rom_7:24; Rom_8:13; Col_3:5), and with sanctification (Rom_12:1; 1Co_6:19 sq.; compare 1Th_4:4; 1Th_5:23). It is represented as mortal, Rom_8:11; 2Co_10:10; and as capable of life, 1Co_13:3; 2Co_4:10.
In common with μέλη members, it is the instrument of feeling and willing rather than σάρξ, because the object in such cases is to designate the body not definitely as earthly, but generally as organic, Rom_6:12, Rom_6:13, Rom_6:19; 2Co_5:10. Hence, wherever it is viewed with reference to sin or sanctification, it is the outward organ for the execution of the good or bad resolves of the will.
The phrase body of sin denotes the body belonging to, or ruled by, the power of sin, in which the members are instruments of unrighteousness (Rom_6:13). Not the body as containing the principle of evil in our humanity, since Paul does not regard sin as inherent in, and inseparable from, the body (see Rom_6:13; 2Co_4:10-12; 2Co_7:1. Compare Mat_15:19), nor as precisely identical with the old man, an organism or system of evil dispositions, which does not harmonize with Rom_6:12, Rom_6:13, where Paul uses body in the strict sense. “Sin is conceived as the master, to whom the body as slave belongs and is obedient to execute its will. As the slave must perform his definite functions, not because he in himself can perform no others, but because of His actually subsistent relationship of service he may perform no others, while of himself he might belong as well to another master and render other services; so the earthly σῶμα body belongs not of itself to the ἁμαρτία sin, but may just as well belong to the Lord (1Co_6:13), and doubtless it is de facto enslaved to sin, so long as a redemption from this state has not set in by virtue of the divine Spirit” (Rom_7:24 : Dickson).
Destroyed
See on Rom_3:3.
He that is dead (ὁ ἀποθανὼν)
Rev., literally, he that hath died. In a physical sense. Death and its consequences are used as the general illustration of the spiritual truth. It is a habit of Paul to throw in such general illustrations. See Rom_7:2.
Vincent.
"the cup of blessing" This probably refers to the third cup in the Jewish Passover service. It was what Jesus used to inaugurate the Lord's Supper.
The term "blessing" is eulogia from the VERB eulogeō, which means "to praise," "to flatter," "to bless," or "to benefit." See note at 2 Cor. 9:5. We get the English term eulogy from this Greek root. When Jesus enacted this ordinance he took both the cup and bread and gave thanks to God. The Greek term for thanks or thanksgiving is eucharistia, from which we get the term Eucharist. Both of these Greek terms are used in a synonymous way in 1 Cor. 14:16.
It is interesting, but not theologically significant, that the normal order of the cup and bread (cf. 1 Cor. 11:24-27) is reversed here. The order is not the issue, rather fellowship with Christ at His communal meal versus fellowship with pagan deities at their communal meals.
"sharing" This is the Greek word koinonia, which means "joint participation with." This is the origin of the English word "communion," used for the Eucharistic symbolic meal, which emphasizes fellowship now, but a more intimate fellowship in the future.
"in the blood of Christ" This is an emphasis on the death of Christ in its sacrificial OT context (cf. Levticus 1-7). The blood symbolized the life (cf. Lev. 17:11,14).
"the bread which we break" This is the source of the English phrase we use for the Lord's Supper, "breaking bread" (cf. Acts 2:42). This was the symbol Jesus chose to represent the New Covenant in His broken body on the cross. He purposely did not choose the Passover Lamb, which was a symbol of the old covenant experience (cf. Exodus 12).
"sharing in the body of Christ" The symbol of the "body of Christ" is twofold:
His physical body was sacrificed for human sin
His followers became His spiritual body, the church (which also has two aspects in 1 Corinthians:)
local church
the universal church
10:17 This is an emphasis on the unity of Christ and His church expressed in the Lord's Supper symbolism (i.e., one bread). This same unity of Christ's body is in 1 Cor. 12:12-13 in relation to spiritual gifts.
Partakers of the altar (κοινωνοὶ τοῦ θυσιαστηρίου)
An awkward phrase. Rev., better, bringing out the force of κοινωνοὶ communers: have not they - communion with the altar? The Israelite who partook of the sacrifices (Lev_8:31) united himself with the altar of God.
Paul says with the altar rather than with God, in order to emphasize the communion through the specific act of worship or sacrifice; since, in a larger sense, Israel after the flesh, Israel regarded as a nation, was, in virtue of that fact, in fellowship with God, apart from his partaking of the sacrifices. Possibly, also, to suggest the external character of the Jewish worship in contrast with the spiritual worship of Christians. Philo calls the Jewish priest κοινωνὸς τοῦ βώμου partaker of the altar.
Vincent
3) "Partakers of the altar?” (koinonoi tou thusiasteriou eisin) "Common sharers, consorters, of the altar sacrifices?" or do not those regularly identified with sacrifice eating, sharers or partakers of the worship. This is a question of rhetoric nature affirming that the altar-sacrifice worshiper by a common continual eating thus endorses the sacrifices of false worship, a thing God abhors, Exo_32:1-10.
Now we have a better understanding re "Partakers-kononoi-of the altar"
1Co 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?
1Co 10:17 For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.
1Co 10:18 Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar?
1Co 10:19 What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing?
1Co 10:20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Then SEEK to be saved . . The Kingdom of GOD is not like this world , JESUS PREACHED IT
and HE said all who do believe in HIM will not DIE but have eternal life .
Willfully rejecting Christ is bad news EPI . You can preach all you want
and so can others , but if one has not FAITH in CHRIST and rather rejects the TRUTH of His Word , its all vain .
Those who believe in Christ have died to self epi . You seem to preach our own way , self made efforts . Die to SELF epi .
Die to ego epi . Preach CHRIST JESUS , for in HE alone is salvation found . In HE alone can one be saved .
In HE alone can one be made the righteousness of GOD . In HE alone can one be REDEEMED
from which by the law can no man be justified . Stop preaching a CHRISTELESS CROSS epi .
Point to HE who was crucified on the cross . THEN , THEN ye shall have the eyes to see , and ears to hear
and power to do that which truly is pleasing to GOD . Hurry epi , times running out
and also no man knows their final hour upon earth . And you my friend and in dire and grave danger .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
We see the dire necessity for Christ .
Remember cornelious . He too once did much good , did alms , gave to the poor .
STILL he needed to hear the gospel and believe to be saved .
GOD has already determined HOW HE was gonna save the world . THIS was GODS PLAN .
And this is , by the preaching of the gospel . That all who do believe in HE whom GOD did send , JESUS CHRIST , would be saved .
The law is holy just and good . But due to the weakness of man , the flesh , GOD made the way to BE SAVED .
JESUS CHRIST . for no man can be justified by the law . All have fallen short of the GLORY OF GOD .
JESUS is the GLORY of GOD and in HIM we have all we need to walk pleasing unto GOD .
Yet we have some that think they are good enough without Him . That wont bode well on the DAY of the LORD .
GOD predetermined exactly HOW He was gonna save the world . And it wasnt man that was gonna save themselves ,
RATHER FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST WHOM GOD HIMSELF did send is what is gonna save man . GOD determined this
and it wont be changed no matter how many men try and change it and try and make another way to be saved .
IT wont work . GOD alone has determined it , and JESUS said IT IS FINISHED as HE had done all that was
required for one to be saved . JESUS DID IT . JESUS , not men , not budda , not muhammed , JESUS DID
all that was required for us to be SAVED . So the message stands , HAVE ALL FAITH in HIM .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Epi preaching a Christless Cross is like a man
with a LOG in one eye and a patch over the other eye . Saying alas , alas i have seen the path
come and follow me , let me be your guide . IT WONT WORK EPI .
For no matter how hard epi tries to guide the peoples , They all gonna fall into the ditch .
Preach JESUS CHRIST and HIM CRUCIFIED . Not we ourselves crucified without faith in Christ . GOTTA POINT TO JESUS CHRIST or its all vain .
A man preaching a cross without FAITH in HE who was crucified on the Cross , is preaching
a lost cause , a powerless message and one that offers zero hope to man . GOTTA PREACH JESUS CHRIST And HIM crucified .
with a LOG in one eye and a patch over the other eye . Saying alas , alas i have seen the path
come and follow me , let me be your guide . IT WONT WORK EPI .
For no matter how hard epi tries to guide the peoples , They all gonna fall into the ditch .
Preach JESUS CHRIST and HIM CRUCIFIED . Not we ourselves crucified without faith in Christ . GOTTA POINT TO JESUS CHRIST or its all vain .
A man preaching a cross without FAITH in HE who was crucified on the Cross , is preaching
a lost cause , a powerless message and one that offers zero hope to man . GOTTA PREACH JESUS CHRIST And HIM crucified .
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
So you are adding to the gospel and Jesus death and resurrection was not enough to save you from your sins. Your fake man made works based death is greater than Jesus real death and Resurrection.
So much for being saved by grace through faith and not by your own works lest anyman( you in this case boasting about your death instead of Jesus death) should boast.
Nice to know.
Amen. The communion of Christ is in contrast to the communion of devils. Pagans also ate of their sacrifices made to idols/demons in their pagan feasts. We can't participate in both, or the pagan sacrifice will cancel out the sacrifice made to God in effect....this is like a reiteration of where Jesus said we cannot serve two masters...it's the same principle.
The ingestion of what was sacrificed to God (either by the person or persons who has brought it, or a priest could eat it on their behalf) once sacrificed on behalf of the one who brought it, was like ingesting a medicine (balm of Gilead) to heal the person of their sin in effect.....God having been appeased by the sacrifice was forgiving their sin or uncleanness. The eating of the sacrifice is what made one a participant in that altar of sacrifice...ie, a beneficiary of it. So in other words, from what I understand, ingesting the sacrifice was a necessary part of the sacrificial process at times in order for the sacrifice to be applied to the one bringing it....as was being sprinkled with the blood of the sacrifice in some ceremonies.
We have the original Passover lamb as an example. God instructed the Israelites in Egypt to eat the lamb after it had been killed and roasted on the fire. During Temple times, the Passover lambs that were being brought to the Temple to be sacrificed by the male representatives of all the families of Israel who had gone to Jerusalem for that purpose, after being sacrificed and cooked on the altar by the fire, were given back to the one who brought it, that he could eat of the lamb (on his own behalf and that of his family back home) and thus participate in the Passover.
What I believe it signifies to Christians is "ingesting" or receiving inside us the indwelling Holy Spirit, for which Jesus died in order that it be given to us (because it was HIS spirit - the spirit/life of a person leaves their body when they die). His Spirit inside us, which we receive when we come to faith, is what cleanses and sanctifies us. (Christ IN us, the hope of glory). The Lord's supper began to have much more significance and meaning to me once I understood these things and it all made sense. We remember His death periodically until He comes - it's like a refreshing of His sacrifice to us. Much like "times of refreshing" refresh the Holy Spirit to us even though we already have the Holy Spirit. And by examining ourselves at communion we are essentially applying or re-freshing His sacrifice to specific sins/iniquities that we are aware of it in order to be forgiven and cleansed of them...we are to leave those sins at the altar of communion.
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VictoryinJesus
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What stands out to me in what you shared. Is since they were not even willing to share their food with believers in return, they would not share their food with unbelievers. For example if your enemy is hungry feed him. “But we have nothing to feed him with!” “if your enemy is hungry and thirsty…???…And will hot coals will be poured upon his head, and the Lord will reward you.”
I do see your point in “never let your behavior to discredit your beliefs” not disputing that but also wonder if turning a blind eye to the behavior discredits the belief…
It can also be needful to let your behavior discredit your beliefs. No?
If you see your behavior discredits your beliefs… of communion with His body….then is it better to reexamine why the two are in opposition: our behavior and our said belief? Or maybe our beliefs are revealed by our behavior? Which needs to go? If our behavior is Bourne out of our beliefs and they are in opposition?
Be as your Father in Heaven who is perfect: giving not only to those who love Him, but also gives to those who do not love Him. The Father who does not only give to those who are grateful, but gives also to those ungrateful. Let us move on to perfection? If we won’t even share with those we call brethren, how will we ever share with those we call enemies? Makes me wonder who are those hungry that go away still hungered?
Romans 14:6-7 He that regards the day, regards it unto the Lord; and he that regards not the day, to the Lord he does not regard it. He that eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he that eats not, to the Lord he eats not, and gives God thanks. [7] For none of us live to himself, and no man dies to himself.
The centurion and Paul is an example of not letting your behavior discredit your belief (Imo) in Acts 27. Communion happens in Acts 27 (again Imo).
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You go the long route Lizbeth, but I concur.
I prefer to "work" with the Scriptures and do not trust or lean on my own understanding to go the long route-I might say something wrong.
Shalom
J.
Amen.....it is only comm-union with Christ (one body, one flesh, one spirit).........that brings us into comm-union with His body of believers.
Yes it was long......but I wasn't sure if it was being understood or not, so I made another attempt to expound it just in case. Glad that you concur! :)
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