Homosexuality: Wrong or Right?

[Ziggy]

I believe God creates all kinds of walks of life to see how we will react to them.

If your a bible beliving person then you believe that LGBTQ is a sin.
If your not then to the LGBTQ there is nothing wrong.
It is us who judge them according to what we believe is good and evil and what we have been taught.

Being LGBTQ doesn't hurt you or me, we have our own lives and live them according to what we believe.
And we believe that being LGBTQ is harmful to themselves. But is it?
To him that knows to do good and does it not, to him it is sin. What about those who find nothing wrong with their lifestyle and they are not hurting any one else?
Not talking pedophilia here, because they harm innocent children that haven't had a chance to learn the difference. Or make a choice.

I'm a heterosexual woman, always have been always will be. Because I have been taught that homosexuality is a sin, I don't partake in it, neither do I have a desire to be.
Maybe LGBTQ is God's way of population control. We use abortion to kill children. God uses LGBTQ to prevent pregnancy so killing is unnecessary.

Then there are variations. Those that truly have a loving attachment to each other and those that are just promiscuous and do it for the physical pleasure. Either way, how does that hurt the heterosexual and their walk in this life?
How does someone else's lifestyle effect your own life?

Are we judges? Do we make the laws? Should we be their executioners?

What is the difference between opposing homosexuality and being a racist?
We say, we don't judge people by the color of their skin, but we do judge them by their personal sexual preferences.
Both are carnal attributes. Both emit an emotional reaction... hate for the act or hate for the skin color.

And I believe it is hate that is the sin more so than the act or the color of ones skin.

Maybe God's wisdom is beyond our understanding of why he creates whom he creates and for what purpose.
Maybe their existence is our test to see how unjudgemental and tolerant we truly are.
We say we love the sinner but not the sin, and yet we judge the sinner by the sin.
And is anyone perfect? Some flaws are more prominant than others, and some flaws are in the heart that can't be seen on the outside, until they manifest themselves with intolerance and hate towards others for being different.

Jesus should of hated the Samaritan woman at the well because she wasn't a Jew but he didn't.
Jesus should of avoided people with leprosy because they were considered cursed, but he didn't.
Jesus should of avoided hanging out with sinners but it was these he loved and died for.
We may not have the ability to change peoples nationalities or change their lifestyles.
We do however have the ability to love them and care about them and still remain unspotted by their ways.

God says it's wrong, then God will change them if he wants to.
Maybe God isn't as concerned about the outward appearance as he is with the condition of our hearts.
And I believe God's way of population control is more humane than mans.
If you can't make babies, then you can't kill them.

No matter how you look at it, God is going to judge us all. And he will use the same measure of judgment on us that we use on others.

And there is none perfect, no not one.

Just thinking
Hugs

 

[Jack]

"The Rise of Global Government: Understanding the Unprecedented Times We Live in through the Lens of the Bible"

Revelation 13:7
7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation.

NOTHING can stop it!

 

[lforrest]

Nope:
1. God told the Israelites to wipe the nations in Canaan out for violating laws against homosexuality, among other things (Leviticus 18), proving the Law contains not only commands that are particular to Jews, but also universal laws (eg, "Do not commit idolatry" applies to Gentiles as well--just as prohibitions against homosexual acts).
2. God said He never revealed His Law to another nation, but never said other individuals had not been shown it or did not know it. Even Noah knew what clean and unclean animals were, for instance.
3. The second death is for men who commit homosexual acts, among other sins, so you're helping them to be condemned.
4. The Church is a "nation", and we do have laws we walk by.

1. It contains universal law, but the entirety is not universal so the law of Moses was not for canaan.

2. If people followed their conscience it wouldn't have been a problem. But we don't, so the conscience is corrupted. Contributing to the downfall of nations that reject God.

3. Thanks for the accusation but no. The one who sins will die. God requires personal responsibility even in these godless nations. If someone lacks faith in Jesus, it doesn't matter if they continue to sin or not. Either way they are still going to hell.

"He that is unjust, let him be unjust still; and he that is filthy, let him be filthy still; and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still; and he that is holy, let him be holy still"

4. We currently live in nations that are of this world, that is what I referred to.

 

[GracePeace]

1. It contains universal law, but the entirety is not universal so the law of Moses was not for canaan.

Ask the Canaanites whether they think being obliterated for homosexuality feels more like the prohibition was binding on them or not.

Leviticus 18
22‘You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.
...
24‘Do not defile yourselves by any of these things; for by all these the nations which I am casting out before you have become defiled. 25‘For the land has become defiled, therefore I have brought its punishment upon it, so the land has spewed out its inhabitants.

2. If people followed their conscience it wouldn't have been a problem. But we don't, so the conscience is corrupted. Contributing to the downfall of nations that reject God.

Irrelevant in this context.

3. Thanks for the accusation but no. The one who sins will die. God requires personal responsibility even in these godless nations. If someone lacks faith in Jesus, it doesn't matter if they continue to sin or not. Either way they are still going to hell.

"He that is unjust, let him be unjust still; and he that is filthy, let him be filthy still; and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still; and he that is holy, let him be holy still"

The point is homosexuality is a sin according to God, and it is a universal law, and we see that this is the case when the Canaanites were put to death, in part, on account of that sin. It is specified.
The fact that you actually try to dispute this says more about you than anything about the Bible or my assertions about the Bible.

4. We currently live in nations that are of this world, that is what I referred to.

Irrelevant.

 

[Sheila3]

I didn't say "Christians". I said 'Christians'. It still says gays are heading for Hell fire and possibly Christians who don't warn them!

I only use parentheses to giving enhancement to the word Christians - is there a difference? And did I miss the word possibly in your initial statement to me? I don't recall seeing the word possibly?

 

[Jack]

I only use parentheses to giving hands me to the word Christians - is there a difference? And did I miss the word possibly in your initial statement to me? I don't recall seeing the word possibly?

There are Christians and there are "Christians". Christians is the real thing.

 

[Sheila3]

There are Christians and there are "Christians". Christians is the real thing.

Oh so you change from single quotation marks to double ( like I used).

How many people do you think actually exist that don't know there are people who call themselves Christians and are not. Since you're trying to make that point! Whether it's a different branch or individual persons.

 

[Jack]

Oh so you change from single quotation marks to double ( like I used).

How many people do you think actually exist that don't know there are people who call themselves Christians and are not. Since you're trying to make that point! Whether it's a different branch or individual persons.

The main point is: Gays are heading for Hell fire.

 

[The Learner]

I believe God creates all kinds of walks of life to see how we will react to them.

If your a bible beliving person then you believe that LGBTQ is a sin.
If your not then to the LGBTQ there is nothing wrong.
It is us who judge them according to what we believe is good and evil and what we have been taught.

Being LGBTQ doesn't hurt you or me, we have our own lives and live them according to what we believe.
And we believe that being LGBTQ is harmful to themselves. But is it?
To him that knows to do good and does it not, to him it is sin. What about those who find nothing wrong with their lifestyle and they are not hurting any one else?
Not talking pedophilia here, because they harm innocent children that haven't had a chance to learn the difference. Or make a choice.

I'm a heterosexual woman, always have been always will be. Because I have been taught that homosexuality is a sin, I don't partake in it, neither do I have a desire to be.
Maybe LGBTQ is God's way of population control. We use abortion to kill children. God uses LGBTQ to prevent pregnancy so killing is unnecessary.

Then there are variations. Those that truly have a loving attachment to each other and those that are just promiscuous and do it for the physical pleasure. Either way, how does that hurt the heterosexual and their walk in this life?
How does someone else's lifestyle effect your own life?

Are we judges? Do we make the laws? Should we be their executioners?

What is the difference between opposing homosexuality and being a racist?
We say, we don't judge people by the color of their skin, but we do judge them by their personal sexual preferences.
Both are carnal attributes. Both emit an emotional reaction... hate for the act or hate for the skin color.

And I believe it is hate that is the sin more so than the act or the color of ones skin.

Maybe God's wisdom is beyond our understanding of why he creates whom he creates and for what purpose.
Maybe their existence is our test to see how unjudgemental and tolerant we truly are.
We say we love the sinner but not the sin, and yet we judge the sinner by the sin.
And is anyone perfect? Some flaws are more prominant than others, and some flaws are in the heart that can't be seen on the outside, until they manifest themselves with intolerance and hate towards others for being different.

Jesus should of hated the Samaritan woman at the well because she wasn't a Jew but he didn't.
Jesus should of avoided people with leprosy because they were considered cursed, but he didn't.
Jesus should of avoided hanging out with sinners but it was these he loved and died for.
We may not have the ability to change peoples nationalities or change their lifestyles.
We do however have the ability to love them and care about them and still remain unspotted by their ways.

God says it's wrong, then God will change them if he wants to.
Maybe God isn't as concerned about the outward appearance as he is with the condition of our hearts.
And I believe God's way of population control is more humane than mans.
If you can't make babies, then you can't kill them.

No matter how you look at it, God is going to judge us all. And he will use the same measure of judgment on us that we use on others.

And there is none perfect, no not one.

Just thinking
Hugs

God does not make anyone gay.

James 2

Easy-to-Read Version

​

Love All People​

2 My dear brothers and sisters, you are believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ. So don’t treat some people better than others. 2 Suppose someone comes into your meeting wearing very nice clothes and a gold ring. At the same time a poor person comes in wearing old, dirty clothes. 3 You show special attention to the person wearing nice clothes. You say, “Sit here in this good seat.” But you say to the poor person, “Stand there!” or “Sit on the floor by our feet!” 4 Doesn’t this show that you think some people are more important than others? You set yourselves up as judges—judges who make bad decisions.
5 Listen, my dear brothers and sisters. God chose the poor people in the world to be rich in faith. He chose them to receive the kingdom God promised to those who love him. 6 But you show no respect to those who are poor. And you know that the rich are the ones who always try to control your lives. And they are the ones who take you to court. 7 And the rich are the ones who insult the wonderful name of Christ, the name by which you are known.
8 One law rules over all other laws. This royal law is found in the Scriptures: “Love your neighbor[a] the same as you love yourself.”[b] If you obey this law, you are doing right. 9 But if you are treating one person as more important than another, you are sinning. You are guilty of breaking God’s law.
10 You might follow all of God’s law. But if you fail to obey only one command, you are guilty of breaking all the commands in that law. 11 God said, “Don’t commit adultery.”[c] The same God also said, “Don’t kill.”[d] So if you don’t commit adultery, but you kill someone, you are guilty of breaking all of God’s law.
12 You will be judged by the law that makes people free. You should remember this in everything you say and do. 13 Yes, you must show mercy to others. If you do not show mercy, then God will not show mercy to you when he judges you. But the one who shows mercy can stand without fear before the Judge.

Faith and Good Works​

14 My brothers and sisters, if a person claims to have faith but does nothing, that faith is worth nothing. Faith like that cannot save anyone. 15 Suppose a brother or sister in Christ comes to you in need of clothes or something to eat. 16 And you say to them, “God be with you! I hope you stay warm and get plenty to eat,” but you don’t give them the things they need. If you don’t help them, your words are worthless. 17 It is the same with faith. If it is just faith and nothing more—if it doesn’t do anything—it is dead.
18 But someone might argue, “Some people have faith, and others have good works.” My answer would be that you can’t show me your faith if you don’t do anything. But I will show you my faith by the good I do. 19 You believe there is one God. That’s good, but even the demons believe that! And they shake with fear.
20 You fool! Faith that does nothing is worth nothing. Do you want me to prove this to you? 21 Our father Abraham was made right with God by what he did. He offered his son Isaac to God on the altar. 22 So you see that Abraham’s faith and what he did worked together. His faith was made perfect by what he did. 23 This shows the full meaning of the Scriptures that say, “Abraham believed God, and because of this faith he was accepted as one who is right with God.”[e] Abraham was called “God’s friend.”[f] 24 So you see that people are made right with God by what they do. They cannot be made right by faith alone.
25 Another example is Rahab. She was a prostitute, but she was made right with God by something she did. She helped those who were spying for God’s people. She welcomed them into her home and helped them escape by a different road.[g]
26 A person’s body that does not have a spirit is dead. It is the same with faith—faith that does nothing is dead!

Footnotes​

1. James 2:8 your neighbor Or “others.” Jesus’ teaching in Lk. 10:25-37 makes clear that this includes anyone in need.
2. James 2:8 Quote from Lev. 19:18.
3. James 2:11 Quote from Ex. 20:14; Deut. 5:18.
4. James 2:11 Quote from Ex. 20:13; Deut. 5:17.
5. James 2:23 Quote from Gen. 15:6.
6. James 2:23 Quote from 2 Chron. 20:7; Isa. 41:8.
7. James 2:25 She helped … road The story about Rahab is found in Josh. 2:1-21.

 

[The Learner]

Ask the Canaanites whether they think being obliterated for homosexuality feels more like the prohibition was binding on them or not.

Leviticus 18
22‘You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.
...
24‘Do not defile yourselves by any of these things; for by all these the nations which I am casting out before you have become defiled. 25‘For the land has become defiled, therefore I have brought its punishment upon it, so the land has spewed out its inhabitants.

Irrelevant in this context.

The point is homosexuality is a sin according to God, and it is a universal law, and we see that this is the case when the Canaanites were put to death, in part, on account of that sin. It is specified.
The fact that you actually try to dispute this says more about you than anything about the Bible or my assertions about the Bible.

Irrelevant.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/014610799702700202?journalCode=btba

https://www.jstor.org/stable/42576700

People arguing against churches being fully inclusive cite what are typically called the “clobber passages”: Genesis 19:1-38; Leviticus 18:22, 20:13; Romans 1:25-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9-11; 1 Timothy 1:9-10 and Jude 6-7. A few also cite Genesis 1-2.

Conservative interpreters presume the meaning of these texts is self-evidently against consensual same-sex relations. In some cases, such as with the Levitical and Pauline materials, they are probably right.

Amy-Jill Levine: How to read the Bible's "clobber passages" on homosexuality - Outreach

Discussions of these passages are not just matters of debate: lives depend on how we choose to read.

outreach.faith

https://repository.up.ac.za/bitstream/handle/2263/23854/03chapter4.pdf?sequence=4&isAllowed=y

Out of Order: Homosexuality in the Bible and the Ancient Near East | Denver Journal

A review of Donald Wold's "Out of Order: Homosexuality in the Bible and the Ancient Near East," by Dr. James Beck.

denverjournal.denverseminary.edu

Wold, Donald J. Out of Order: Homosexuality in the Bible and the Ancient Near East. Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Books. 1998, $17.99.
Donald Wold has made a valuable and substantial contribution to the current discussion among evangelicals regarding homosexuality. The book’s central value centers on its review of homosexuality in cultures that surrounded ancient Israel and that thus provided the context into which we must place Levitical bans on homosexuality. The author scatters throughout the text refutations of arguments made by John Boswell, Mel White, and Tom Horner. Wold argues that homosexuality was widely seen as a violation of order, an important virtue for ancient societies. All Near Eastern cultures provided for ways of restoring order, whether by appeasing Egyptian deities with magic or by offering sacrifices on the altars of Israel. For ancient Israel, homosexuality violated God’s basic order for human society by defying the male-female model for sexual union found in the creation accounts and by defiling the sanctuary that housed God’s presence.
Wold notes that by the time Leviticus 18 was composed, a type of common law (Mesopotamian) existed throughout the Near East. However, that common law tradition did not impact the Hebrews, especially with regard to homosexuality. “There was no law like Hebrew homosexual law among the legal codes of the ancient Near East” (p. 44).
The author devotes an entire chapter to the sin of Ham against his father Noah as recorded in Genesis 9. (The chapter title is: “The Daze of Noah.”) Few treatments of the subject of homosexuality have devoted time and attention to this post-Flood account. Wold suggests that the account details not just a violation of cultural modesty but the contra-creation sins of incest, homosexuality, and rape at this point in the re-beginning of the human race. “What is hinted at in the narrative is made explicit in the law” (p. 76). The curse falls to Canaan whose descendants were premiere practitioners of these very sins (homosexuality, rape, and incest) and who thus deserved the extermination which Yahweh commanded of the armies of Joshua.
The book is very critical of the treatment of Sodom by John Boswell. Wold demonstrates that homosexual violations are central to the Genesis 19 account and cannot be ignored. He does concede, however, that the Ezekiel 19 material adds to this central theme by discussing violations of hospitality perpetrated by the citizens of Sodom. “The narratives portray both inhospitality and homosexual conduct” (p. 85). Wold views Leviticus 18 as a treaty modeled after Hittite treaties. Leviticus 18 has a preamble (vv. 1-2), an historical prologue (vv. 3-5), a list of stipulations (vv. 67-23), a rationale for compliance (vv. 24-28), a witness (v. 30), and a curse for noncompliance (v. 29). The curse (kareth) suggests to Wold that each of the sexual sins named in Leviticus 18 are deliberate sins for which the guilty person stands fully accountable. Wold see the kareth penalty of Leviticus 18 as not mutually exclusive with the death penalty of Leviticus 20. In contrast with Boswell who suggests that the ban on sexual activity during menstruation in Leviticus 18 trivializes the seriousness of homosexuality, Wold argues that the ban on homosexuality highlights the extreme seriousness of the sin of sexual activity during menstruation.
Wold makes the statement on page 115, “There is no explicit prohibition in the Bible regarding lesbianism.” Yet on page 116 he writes, “References to sexual relations between women are found in the later Greek literature and the New Testament (Rom. 1:26). Readers are left to wonder how these two statements fit together. Nor will all readers be convinced of Wold’s suggestion that Jesus makes an allusion to homosexuality in Mark 7:21-23 when he uses the word alelgeia. The evidence is not strong enough a warrant a firm conclusion on this issue.
Readers may wish that Wold had shared more of his expertise on kareth in this volume. How do we understand kareth as a serious punishment for serious sexual sins (Leviticus 18) when the banning called for by kareth is also the punishment for misusing holy oil or incense (Exodus 30), for eating a sacrificed peace offering on the third day (Leviticus 19), or for a great variety of other violations of ritual law?
Wold does not like the term sexual orientation because it conveys to the modern mind a lack of moral responsibility for presumably determined behavior. Most evangelicals will agree with Wold on this point. Wold would like to restrict the term orientation to “only a mind-set and not an inherited trait” (p. 23). “The Hebrew term yeser is used of mental purpose of frame of mind and is not far from some modern nuances of orientation” (p. 22). Yet Wold’s position here is inadequate given the host of data we must deal with. We need substantial and scholarly discussions of the topic of sexual orientation as it relates to the question of the sin nature. The sin nature orients every person away from God and prompts in some manner the person to commit violations of God’s laws. When the person decides to commit acts based on the promptings of the sin nature, the person is held responsible. No person, except the incarnate Son of God, escapes the power of the sin nature; for all have sinned. We are able to affirm the moral responsibility of all sinners and at the same time acknowledge a powerful, underlying orientation to that sin. Yet we do not seem able to do so when it comes to the sin of homosexual behavior.
The book is best suited for understanding the Bible’s condemnation of deliberate sins of homosexuality committed by adults. As mentioned at the top of this review, this contribution is significant and noteworthy. But it goes without saying that we continue to have much more to do regarding this topic. We have to understand why heterosexual orientation seems to be absent in some persons; we have to assimilate psychological and physiological findings regarding human sexuality as we exegete Scripture; we have to deal more thoroughly with the teachings of Scripture on celibacy; we need to understand more about eunuchs and how Scripture’s teaching on this subject may inform the broader discussion. We can only hope that additional works of the caliber of this current volume will carry on with the wider discussions that we all need.
Dr. James Beck
Professor of Counseling
Denver Seminary

• 6399 South Santa Fe Drive
• Littleton, Colorado, USA 80120

800.922.3040[email protected]

---

 

[The Learner]

When a Baby Dies: Answers to Comfort Grieving Parents | Denver Journal

A review of Ronald Nash's, "When a Baby Dies: Answers to Comfort Grieving Parents," by Dr. Craig Blomberg.

denverjournal.denverseminary.edu

Beyond Death: Exploring the Evidence for Immortality | Denver Journal

Dr. Craig Blomberg's review of "Beyond Death: Exploring the Evidence for Immortality," by Gary Habermas and J.P. Moreland.

denverjournal.denverseminary.edu

Denver Journal | Denver Journal

About the Denver Journal Welcome to Denver Journal. The purpose of the Denver Journal is to establish an online Evangelical review journal of biblical and t ...

denverjournal.denverseminary.edu

 

[The Learner]

rth

 

[MA2444]

I believe God creates all kinds of walks of life to see how we will react to them.

That would mean that Gid created lgbzq's. How about, God allowed such things to happen as a test for us?

 

[The Learner]

That would mean that Gid created lgbzq's. How about, God allowed such things to happen as a test for us?

2 Corinthians 8:2
These believers have been tested by great troubles, and they are very poor. But their great joy caused them to be very generous in their giving.

1 Thessalonians 2:4
No, we did it because God is the one who gave us this work. And this was only after he tested us and saw that we could be trusted to do it. So when we speak, we are only trying to please God, not anyone else. He is the one who can see what is in our hearts.

Hebrews 11:17-18
God tested Abraham’s faith

1 Peter 1

Easy-to-Read Version

​

1 Greetings from Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ.
To God’s chosen people who are away from their homes—people scattered all over the areas of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia. 2 God planned long ago to choose you and to make you his holy people, which is the Spirit’s work. God wanted you to obey him and to be made clean by the blood sacrifice[a] of Jesus Christ.
I pray that you will enjoy more and more of God’s grace and peace.

A Living Hope​

3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. God has great mercy, and because of his mercy he gave us a new life. This new life brings us a living hope through Jesus Christ’s resurrection from death. 4 Now we wait to receive the blessings God has for his children. These blessings are kept for you in heaven. They cannot be ruined or be destroyed or lose their beauty.
5 God’s power protects you through your faith, and it keeps you safe until your salvation comes. That salvation is ready to be given to you at the end of time. 6 I know the thought of that is exciting, even if you must suffer through different kinds of troubles for a short time now. 7 These troubles test your faith and prove that it is pure. And such faith is worth more than gold. Gold can be proved to be pure by fire, but gold will ruin. When your faith is proven to be pure, the result will be praise and glory and honor when Jesus Christ comes.
8 You have not seen Christ, but still you love him. You can’t see him now, but you believe in him. You are filled with a wonderful and heavenly joy that cannot be explained. 9 Your faith has a goal, and you are reaching that goal—your salvation.
10 The prophets studied carefully and tried to learn about this salvation. They spoke about the grace that was coming to you. 11 The Spirit of Christ was in those prophets. And the Spirit was telling about the sufferings that would happen to Christ and about the glory that would come after those sufferings. The prophets tried to learn about what the Spirit was showing them—when it would happen and what the world would be like at that time.
12 It was made clear to them that their service was not for themselves. They were serving you when they told about the things you have now heard. You heard them from those who told you the Good News with the help of the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even the angels would like very much to know more about these things you were told.

A Call to Holy Living​

13 So prepare your minds for service. With complete self-control put all your hope in the grace that will be yours when Jesus Christ comes. 14 In the past you did not have the understanding you have now, so you did the evil things you wanted to do. But now you are children of God, so you should obey him and not live the way you did before. 15 Be holy in everything you do, just as God is holy. He is the one who chose you. 16 In the Scriptures God says, “Be holy, because I am holy.”[b]
17 You pray to God and call him Father, but he will judge everyone the same way—by what they do. So while you are visiting here on earth, you should live with respect for God. 18 You know that in the past the way you were living was useless. It was a way of life you learned from those who lived before you. But you were saved from that way of living. You were bought, but not with things that ruin like gold or silver. 19 You were bought with the precious blood of Christ’s death. He was a pure and perfect sacrificial Lamb. 20 Christ was chosen before the world was made, but he was shown to the world in these last times for you. 21 You believe in God through Christ. God is the one who raised him from death and gave honor to him. So your faith and your hope are in God.
22 You have made yourselves pure by obeying the truth. Now you can have true love for your brothers and sisters. So love each other deeply—with all your heart. 23 You have been born again. This new life did not come from something that dies. It came from something that cannot die. You were born again through God’s life-giving message that lasts forever. 24 The Scriptures say,
“Our lives are like the grass of spring,
and any glory we enjoy is like the beauty of a wildflower.
The grass dries up and dies,
and the flower falls to the ground.
25 But the word of the Lord lasts forever.”
And that word is the Good News that was told to you.

Footnotes​

1. 1 Peter 1:2 made clean … sacrifice Or “sprinkled with the blood,” which probably compares the beginning of the new agreement by the blood sacrifice of Christ (Mk. 14:24) with Moses’ sprinkling the blood of animal sacrifices on the people of Israel to seal the agreement God made with them (Ex. 24:3-8). See also Heb. 9:15-26.
2. 1 Peter 1:16 Quote from Lev. 11:44, 45; 19:2; 20:7.

1 Peter 4:12

My friends, don’t be surprised at the painful things that you are now suffering, which are testing your faith. Don’t think that something strange is happening to you.​

 

[Traveler]

God made it quite clear where he stands on the LGBTQ issues in his laws. That should be the end of the question.

Does it effect the rest of us, yes it does. It brings violence, it brings a further step in the break down of families. It is being used as a tool to destroy specific groups such as the Christians. It is being used for social engineering and programing of a specific mindset.

But the worst part in the short term is how quickly it will be done away with once its usefulness is over.

The LGBTQ will be used to get rid of the Christians and criminalize them. The the door will then be opened for the Muslims to ascend to power and they will then get rid of the LGBTQ because it is not compatible with the islamic faith.

 

[BlessedPeace]

Here's something pro-LBGTQ folks don't talk about.

Leaked Files Reveal Major Risks with Transgender Experiments, Critics Contend 'It Is Not Medicine'
Newly leaked documents are raising serious questions about doctors with a medical organization that's recognized internationally for being at the forefront of so-called "gender-affirming care". In light of the revelations, some are accusing them of violating medical ethics and informed consent for providing transgender procedures while knowing that such efforts included side effects such as cancer in teens, reduced sexual function, and infertility.

The World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH) is a controversial organization that transgender advocates and health professionals look to for medical guidance. According to several reports, the group has long been under scrutiny for its standards of care for ignoring concerns about the long-term side effects of experimental gender procedures.

Now documents obtained and published by the U.S.-based think tank, Environmental Progress, allegedly confirm the organization did not meet the standards of evidence-based medicine, and its members frequently discuss improvising treatments as they go along.

According to the report published by journalist Mia Hughes, members of the organization were "fully aware that children and adolescents cannot comprehend the lifelong consequences of 'gender-affirming care,' and in some cases, due to poor health literacy, neither can their parents."

The raw files have been published in a report called The WPATH Files: Pseudoscientific Surgical and Hormonal Experiments on Children, Adolescents, and Vulnerable Adults.

The files, leaked by a whistleblower, include screenshots of posts from WPATH's internal messaging forum dating from 2021 to 2024. A video of an internal panel discussion was also revealed.

All names have been redacted other than several WPATH members of public significance, such as Dr. Marci Bowers, an American gynecologist and surgeon who is the President of WPATH, and the Canadian pediatric endocrinologist Dr. Daniel Metzger.

Environmental Progress contends that WPATH members "demonstrate a lack of consideration for long-term patient outcomes despite being aware of the debilitating and potentially fatal side effects of cross-sex hormones and other treatments."

"The Files provide evidence of how far off the rails this experiment has gone, with discussions about surgeons performing non-binary surgeries to create body types that do not exist in nature," the group writes.

Physicians discussed life-altering interventions such as vaginoplasty for a 14-year-old and hormones for a developmentally delayed 13-year-old. They are well aware that individuals who undergo transgender treatment often feel regret and reportedly even discussed patients who appear to have died as a consequence of hormone treatment.

 

[GracePeace]

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/014610799702700202?journalCode=btba

https://www.jstor.org/stable/42576700

People arguing against churches being fully inclusive cite what are typically called the “clobber passages”: Genesis 19:1-38; Leviticus 18:22, 20:13; Romans 1:25-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9-11; 1 Timothy 1:9-10 and Jude 6-7. A few also cite Genesis 1-2.

Conservative interpreters presume the meaning of these texts is self-evidently against consensual same-sex relations. In some cases, such as with the Levitical and Pauline materials, they are probably right.

Amy-Jill Levine: How to read the Bible's "clobber passages" on homosexuality - Outreach

Discussions of these passages are not just matters of debate: lives depend on how we choose to read.

outreach.faith

https://repository.up.ac.za/bitstream/handle/2263/23854/03chapter4.pdf?sequence=4&isAllowed=y

Out of Order: Homosexuality in the Bible and the Ancient Near East | Denver Journal

A review of Donald Wold's "Out of Order: Homosexuality in the Bible and the Ancient Near East," by Dr. James Beck.

denverjournal.denverseminary.edu

Wold, Donald J. Out of Order: Homosexuality in the Bible and the Ancient Near East. Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Books. 1998, $17.99.
Donald Wold has made a valuable and substantial contribution to the current discussion among evangelicals regarding homosexuality. The book’s central value centers on its review of homosexuality in cultures that surrounded ancient Israel and that thus provided the context into which we must place Levitical bans on homosexuality. The author scatters throughout the text refutations of arguments made by John Boswell, Mel White, and Tom Horner. Wold argues that homosexuality was widely seen as a violation of order, an important virtue for ancient societies. All Near Eastern cultures provided for ways of restoring order, whether by appeasing Egyptian deities with magic or by offering sacrifices on the altars of Israel. For ancient Israel, homosexuality violated God’s basic order for human society by defying the male-female model for sexual union found in the creation accounts and by defiling the sanctuary that housed God’s presence.
Wold notes that by the time Leviticus 18 was composed, a type of common law (Mesopotamian) existed throughout the Near East. However, that common law tradition did not impact the Hebrews, especially with regard to homosexuality. “There was no law like Hebrew homosexual law among the legal codes of the ancient Near East” (p. 44).
The author devotes an entire chapter to the sin of Ham against his father Noah as recorded in Genesis 9. (The chapter title is: “The Daze of Noah.”) Few treatments of the subject of homosexuality have devoted time and attention to this post-Flood account. Wold suggests that the account details not just a violation of cultural modesty but the contra-creation sins of incest, homosexuality, and rape at this point in the re-beginning of the human race. “What is hinted at in the narrative is made explicit in the law” (p. 76). The curse falls to Canaan whose descendants were premiere practitioners of these very sins (homosexuality, rape, and incest) and who thus deserved the extermination which Yahweh commanded of the armies of Joshua.
The book is very critical of the treatment of Sodom by John Boswell. Wold demonstrates that homosexual violations are central to the Genesis 19 account and cannot be ignored. He does concede, however, that the Ezekiel 19 material adds to this central theme by discussing violations of hospitality perpetrated by the citizens of Sodom. “The narratives portray both inhospitality and homosexual conduct” (p. 85). Wold views Leviticus 18 as a treaty modeled after Hittite treaties. Leviticus 18 has a preamble (vv. 1-2), an historical prologue (vv. 3-5), a list of stipulations (vv. 67-23), a rationale for compliance (vv. 24-28), a witness (v. 30), and a curse for noncompliance (v. 29). The curse (kareth) suggests to Wold that each of the sexual sins named in Leviticus 18 are deliberate sins for which the guilty person stands fully accountable. Wold see the kareth penalty of Leviticus 18 as not mutually exclusive with the death penalty of Leviticus 20. In contrast with Boswell who suggests that the ban on sexual activity during menstruation in Leviticus 18 trivializes the seriousness of homosexuality, Wold argues that the ban on homosexuality highlights the extreme seriousness of the sin of sexual activity during menstruation.
Wold makes the statement on page 115, “There is no explicit prohibition in the Bible regarding lesbianism.” Yet on page 116 he writes, “References to sexual relations between women are found in the later Greek literature and the New Testament (Rom. 1:26). Readers are left to wonder how these two statements fit together. Nor will all readers be convinced of Wold’s suggestion that Jesus makes an allusion to homosexuality in Mark 7:21-23 when he uses the word alelgeia. The evidence is not strong enough a warrant a firm conclusion on this issue.
Readers may wish that Wold had shared more of his expertise on kareth in this volume. How do we understand kareth as a serious punishment for serious sexual sins (Leviticus 18) when the banning called for by kareth is also the punishment for misusing holy oil or incense (Exodus 30), for eating a sacrificed peace offering on the third day (Leviticus 19), or for a great variety of other violations of ritual law?
Wold does not like the term sexual orientation because it conveys to the modern mind a lack of moral responsibility for presumably determined behavior. Most evangelicals will agree with Wold on this point. Wold would like to restrict the term orientation to “only a mind-set and not an inherited trait” (p. 23). “The Hebrew term yeser is used of mental purpose of frame of mind and is not far from some modern nuances of orientation” (p. 22). Yet Wold’s position here is inadequate given the host of data we must deal with. We need substantial and scholarly discussions of the topic of sexual orientation as it relates to the question of the sin nature. The sin nature orients every person away from God and prompts in some manner the person to commit violations of God’s laws. When the person decides to commit acts based on the promptings of the sin nature, the person is held responsible. No person, except the incarnate Son of God, escapes the power of the sin nature; for all have sinned. We are able to affirm the moral responsibility of all sinners and at the same time acknowledge a powerful, underlying orientation to that sin. Yet we do not seem able to do so when it comes to the sin of homosexual behavior.
The book is best suited for understanding the Bible’s condemnation of deliberate sins of homosexuality committed by adults. As mentioned at the top of this review, this contribution is significant and noteworthy. But it goes without saying that we continue to have much more to do regarding this topic. We have to understand why heterosexual orientation seems to be absent in some persons; we have to assimilate psychological and physiological findings regarding human sexuality as we exegete Scripture; we have to deal more thoroughly with the teachings of Scripture on celibacy; we need to understand more about eunuchs and how Scripture’s teaching on this subject may inform the broader discussion. We can only hope that additional works of the caliber of this current volume will carry on with the wider discussions that we all need.
Dr. James Beck
Professor of Counseling
Denver Seminary

• 6399 South Santa Fe Drive
• Littleton, Colorado, USA 80120

800.922.3040[email protected]

---

We quote the Bible, and the false prophets mischaracterize the Scripture as "the clobber passages".

"Woe is me! I'm being clobbered by the bad men who follow Scripture!"

No, YOU are violating THE EARTH with your abominations!

The losers, the perpetual victims (as a way of deflecting from their disgusting depravity that they know very well they are doing), will ultimately crown the greatest loser, the greatest perpetual victim, satan, as their king.

We know what's coming.

You will convince the other lost men, most men, of your insane delusions, but you will never fool God, or change God's Word, so those of us interested in God's Word will not change.

 

[GracePeace]

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/014610799702700202?journalCode=btba

https://www.jstor.org/stable/42576700

People arguing against churches being fully inclusive cite what are typically called the “clobber passages”: Genesis 19:1-38; Leviticus 18:22, 20:13; Romans 1:25-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9-11; 1 Timothy 1:9-10 and Jude 6-7. A few also cite Genesis 1-2.

Conservative interpreters presume the meaning of these texts is self-evidently against consensual same-sex relations. In some cases, such as with the Levitical and Pauline materials, they are probably right.

Amy-Jill Levine: How to read the Bible's "clobber passages" on homosexuality - Outreach

Discussions of these passages are not just matters of debate: lives depend on how we choose to read.

outreach.faith

https://repository.up.ac.za/bitstream/handle/2263/23854/03chapter4.pdf?sequence=4&isAllowed=y

Out of Order: Homosexuality in the Bible and the Ancient Near East | Denver Journal

A review of Donald Wold's "Out of Order: Homosexuality in the Bible and the Ancient Near East," by Dr. James Beck.

denverjournal.denverseminary.edu

Wold, Donald J. Out of Order: Homosexuality in the Bible and the Ancient Near East. Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Books. 1998, $17.99.
Donald Wold has made a valuable and substantial contribution to the current discussion among evangelicals regarding homosexuality. The book’s central value centers on its review of homosexuality in cultures that surrounded ancient Israel and that thus provided the context into which we must place Levitical bans on homosexuality. The author scatters throughout the text refutations of arguments made by John Boswell, Mel White, and Tom Horner. Wold argues that homosexuality was widely seen as a violation of order, an important virtue for ancient societies. All Near Eastern cultures provided for ways of restoring order, whether by appeasing Egyptian deities with magic or by offering sacrifices on the altars of Israel. For ancient Israel, homosexuality violated God’s basic order for human society by defying the male-female model for sexual union found in the creation accounts and by defiling the sanctuary that housed God’s presence.
Wold notes that by the time Leviticus 18 was composed, a type of common law (Mesopotamian) existed throughout the Near East. However, that common law tradition did not impact the Hebrews, especially with regard to homosexuality. “There was no law like Hebrew homosexual law among the legal codes of the ancient Near East” (p. 44).
The author devotes an entire chapter to the sin of Ham against his father Noah as recorded in Genesis 9. (The chapter title is: “The Daze of Noah.”) Few treatments of the subject of homosexuality have devoted time and attention to this post-Flood account. Wold suggests that the account details not just a violation of cultural modesty but the contra-creation sins of incest, homosexuality, and rape at this point in the re-beginning of the human race. “What is hinted at in the narrative is made explicit in the law” (p. 76). The curse falls to Canaan whose descendants were premiere practitioners of these very sins (homosexuality, rape, and incest) and who thus deserved the extermination which Yahweh commanded of the armies of Joshua.
The book is very critical of the treatment of Sodom by John Boswell. Wold demonstrates that homosexual violations are central to the Genesis 19 account and cannot be ignored. He does concede, however, that the Ezekiel 19 material adds to this central theme by discussing violations of hospitality perpetrated by the citizens of Sodom. “The narratives portray both inhospitality and homosexual conduct” (p. 85). Wold views Leviticus 18 as a treaty modeled after Hittite treaties. Leviticus 18 has a preamble (vv. 1-2), an historical prologue (vv. 3-5), a list of stipulations (vv. 67-23), a rationale for compliance (vv. 24-28), a witness (v. 30), and a curse for noncompliance (v. 29). The curse (kareth) suggests to Wold that each of the sexual sins named in Leviticus 18 are deliberate sins for which the guilty person stands fully accountable. Wold see the kareth penalty of Leviticus 18 as not mutually exclusive with the death penalty of Leviticus 20. In contrast with Boswell who suggests that the ban on sexual activity during menstruation in Leviticus 18 trivializes the seriousness of homosexuality, Wold argues that the ban on homosexuality highlights the extreme seriousness of the sin of sexual activity during menstruation.
Wold makes the statement on page 115, “There is no explicit prohibition in the Bible regarding lesbianism.” Yet on page 116 he writes, “References to sexual relations between women are found in the later Greek literature and the New Testament (Rom. 1:26). Readers are left to wonder how these two statements fit together. Nor will all readers be convinced of Wold’s suggestion that Jesus makes an allusion to homosexuality in Mark 7:21-23 when he uses the word alelgeia. The evidence is not strong enough a warrant a firm conclusion on this issue.
Readers may wish that Wold had shared more of his expertise on kareth in this volume. How do we understand kareth as a serious punishment for serious sexual sins (Leviticus 18) when the banning called for by kareth is also the punishment for misusing holy oil or incense (Exodus 30), for eating a sacrificed peace offering on the third day (Leviticus 19), or for a great variety of other violations of ritual law?
Wold does not like the term sexual orientation because it conveys to the modern mind a lack of moral responsibility for presumably determined behavior. Most evangelicals will agree with Wold on this point. Wold would like to restrict the term orientation to “only a mind-set and not an inherited trait” (p. 23). “The Hebrew term yeser is used of mental purpose of frame of mind and is not far from some modern nuances of orientation” (p. 22). Yet Wold’s position here is inadequate given the host of data we must deal with. We need substantial and scholarly discussions of the topic of sexual orientation as it relates to the question of the sin nature. The sin nature orients every person away from God and prompts in some manner the person to commit violations of God’s laws. When the person decides to commit acts based on the promptings of the sin nature, the person is held responsible. No person, except the incarnate Son of God, escapes the power of the sin nature; for all have sinned. We are able to affirm the moral responsibility of all sinners and at the same time acknowledge a powerful, underlying orientation to that sin. Yet we do not seem able to do so when it comes to the sin of homosexual behavior.
The book is best suited for understanding the Bible’s condemnation of deliberate sins of homosexuality committed by adults. As mentioned at the top of this review, this contribution is significant and noteworthy. But it goes without saying that we continue to have much more to do regarding this topic. We have to understand why heterosexual orientation seems to be absent in some persons; we have to assimilate psychological and physiological findings regarding human sexuality as we exegete Scripture; we have to deal more thoroughly with the teachings of Scripture on celibacy; we need to understand more about eunuchs and how Scripture’s teaching on this subject may inform the broader discussion. We can only hope that additional works of the caliber of this current volume will carry on with the wider discussions that we all need.
Dr. James Beck
Professor of Counseling
Denver Seminary

• 6399 South Santa Fe Drive
• Littleton, Colorado, USA 80120

800.922.3040[email protected]

---

Again, the Canaanites were destroyed for homosexuality--you cannot change that.

Ezekiel explains HOW people, like the Sodomites, get to the point where they're committing that "abomination" (Ezekiel's description of homosexuality)--it BEGINS with being self-centered, self-indulgent, not caring about others, nor sharing with them of your abundance, and FROM THAT WICKED SELF-CENTERED STAGNATION eventually comes insane abominations like homosexuality.

Ezekiel never meant to repudiate the message that the Sodomites were destroyed for their unspeakably wicked depravity, including their homosexuality, he was only explaining HOW they got to that foaming rabid point.

 

[The Learner]

We quote the Bible, and the false prophets mischaracterize the Scripture as "the clobber passages".

"Woe is me! I'm being clobbered by the bad men who follow Scripture!"

No, YOU are violating THE EARTH with your abominations!

The losers, the perpetual victims (as a way of deflecting from their disgusting depravity that they know very well they are doing), will ultimately crown the greatest loser, the greatest perpetual victim, satan, as their king.

We know what's coming.

You will convince the other lost men, most men, of your insane delusions, but you will never fool God, or change God's Word, so those of us interested in God's Word will not change.

82% of the suspected perpetrators of child sexual abuse in a study sample were at the time of the offense or had been at some time involved in a heterosexual relationship with a close relative of the child they victimized. In their study sample, researchers found that a child’s risk of being molested by his or her relative’s heterosexual partner was over 100 times greater than their being molested by someone who identifies as being homosexual, lesbian or bisexual (0.7% of the cases).1  According to a study conducted in Massachusetts, young lesbians and bisexual girls experienced more sexual harassment than heterosexual girls. 72% of lesbian and bisexual girls reported that they were “called sexually offensive names” by their peers, compared with 63% of heterosexual girls. Lesbians and bisexual girls were significantly more likely than heterosexual girls to be “touched, brushed up against, or cornered in a sexual way (63% as compared to 52% of heterosexual girls) and to be grabbed or have their clothing pulled in a sexual way (50% compared to 44%). 23% of young lesbian and bisexual girls reported that their peers had “attempted to hurt them in a sexual way (attempted rape or rape),” while 6% of the heterosexual girls surveyed had experienced sexual violence of this nature.”2  A recent study of 103 transgender women in Massachusetts found that approximately 60% of the respondents have been forced to have sex against their will and 38% had been subject to multiple incidents of sexual assault.3  According to the First National Survey of Transgender Violence, 13.7% of 402 persons reported being a victim of rape or attempted rape. 4  In a study of 162 gay men and 111 lesbians, 52% reported at least one incident of sexual coercion by same-sex partners. Gay men experienced 1.6 incidents per
person; while lesbians experienced 1.2 incidents per person.5  According to a study of homeless and marginally housed people, 32% of women, 27% of men, and 38% of transgendered persons reported either physical or sexual victimization in the previous year. Sexual assault was reported by 9.4% of women,

https://www.barcc.org/assets/pdf/Statistics_Download_-_LGBT.pdf

 

[The Learner]

"…[M]ost men who molest little boys are not gay. Only 21 percent of the child molesters we studied who assault little boys were exclusively homosexual. Nearly 80 percent of the men who molested little boys were heterosexual or bisexual and most of these men were married and had children of their own."

https://www.zeroabuseproject.org/victim-assistance/jwrc/keep-kids-safe/sexuality-of-offenders/

A new study led by researchers at Vanderbilt found that 83% of lesbian, gay, bisexual and queer (LGBQ) individuals reported going through adverse childhood experiences such as sexual and emotional abuse, and worse mental health as adults when compared to their heterosexual peers.

Study finds LGBQ people report higher rates of adverse childhood experiences than straight people, worse mental health as adults - VUMC News

A new study led by researchers at Vanderbilt found that 83% of lesbian, gay, bisexual and queer (LGBQ) individuals reported going through adverse childhood experiences such as sexual and emotional abuse, and worse mental health as adults when compared to their heterosexual peers.

news.vumc.org

Are Most Child Sex Offenders Heterosexual?

The overwhelming majority of pedophiles and child sex offenders are heterosexual males. Pedophilia and homosexuality are as different as apples and oranges.

stopabusecampaign.org

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0145213492900878