Homosexuality: Wrong or Right?

[GracePeace]

Good. I'm glad that you are giving this some serious consideration. Thanks.

The Apostle Paul told us that we are no longer under the law. (scripture below)
Yet, those with a political axe to grind, use the law (we are no longer under) to make their case.
There is very little in the NT about this issue. And questions about doctrinal bias in the translation work.

As if to say:
"The law we are no longer under calls it an abomination!" - LOL ???

Galatians 3:23-25 NIV
Before the coming of this faith,[a] we were held in custody under the law,
locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed.
24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.
25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

/

Believers are not under the Law as the means of righteousness because they died with Christ (the Law applies only to the living Jew (Ro 7:1)), and are now under the Spirit of Grace as the means of righteousness, and by the Spirit of Grace, that means of righteousness under Whose authority we are to submit, we fulfill the righteous requirement of the Law (Romans 8:4; 13:8-10), we do not do away with the Law (Romans 3:31).

Why does God free men from being under Law? We're not under Law because the Law is powerless to produce righteousness, NOT because the Law was bad. On the contrary, Paul says, "the Law is holy spiritual and good" (Romans 7).

"We're not under Law." Yeah, but the problem is you're saying, "This means the Law is bad."

"We're not under Law." Yeah, but the problem is you're saying, "This means I'm without God's Law--I don't need to be righteous at all," whereas Paul says, "Though not under the Law, I am not without God's Law, but within Christ's Law" (1 Co 9:21)--and he does it "so that I might save some", whereas you espouse "the deceitfulness of sin" (Heb 3) so that you may selfishly indulge. You have no interest in God at all.

"We're not under Law." Yeah, but the problem is you're saying, "The Law can't speak to us today," whereas Paul says "The Law is good if one uses it lawfully. For we know the Law was not made for righteous people, but for ... homosexuals..."--the Law, therefore, speaks to us today, faithfully bearing witness that homosexuality is a violation of God's New Testament moral demand.

You know it. I know it. Everyone knows it. You, however, KNOWINGLY choose lies, but what you don't appreciate is the destruction you are foolishly embracing. You ought to fear God, and repent. God is peace for the righteous.

I'm sure you've heard this, and much more, already, and, until now, it hasn't tickled your ears, but the readers deserve to hear truth.

 

[St. SteVen]

Why does God free men from being under Law? We're not under Law because the Law is powerless to produce righteousness, NOT because the Law was bad. On the contrary, Paul says, "the Law is holy spiritual and good" (Romans 7).

What do you make of this?

Hebrews 8:7, 13 NIV
7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant,
no place would have been sought for another.
13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete;
and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

/

 

[St. SteVen]

"We're not under Law." Yeah, but the problem is you're saying, "This means I'm without God's Law--

No, that's not what I am saying. God's law is different than the law.
It is also different from the Law (capital L) and Christ's law. See topic link below.

Observations about the law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law - four different things

/

 

[St. SteVen]

"We're not under Law." Yeah, but the problem is you're saying, "This means I'm without God's Law--I don't need to be righteous at all," whereas Paul says, "Though not under the Law, I am not without God's Law, but within Christ's Law" (1 Co 9:21)--and he does it "so that I might save some", whereas you espouse "the deceitfulness of sin" (Heb 3) so that you may selfishly indulge. You have no interest in God at all.

No need for false accusations simply because we disagree on this volatile subject.

"We're not under Law." Yeah, but the problem is you're saying, "The Law can't speak to us today," whereas Paul says "The Law is good if one uses it lawfully. For we know the Law was not made for righteous people, but for ... homosexuals..."--the Law, therefore, speaks to us today, faithfully bearing witness that homosexuality is a violation of God's New Testament moral demand.

What kind of homosexuality? (what do you include?)
If you mean promiscuity, I agree.

What do you include in the term "homosexuality"?
- Gender dysphoria?
- Gender Identity?
- Gender Roles?
- Transgender?
- Sexual Orientation?
- Monogamous relationships?

Unethical treatment of LGBTQ humans / Understanding LGBTQ - 101

1) Were LGBTQ humans created in the image of God?
2) Does God love LGBTQ humans?
3) Did Jesus die to pay the death penalty for LGBTQ humans?
4) Has the church recognized these factors?
5) Has the church acted accordingly?
6) What is your church, or fellowship, doing about this issue?
7) What can you do personally to grapple with this issue?

/

 

[lforrest]

I dont know.

It is possible that the Father , upon His selection of "His chosen" was specifying stricter guidelines?

Does the fact that Leviticus specifies things from God , do you feel that means it does not apply to anyone else? Like us today?

The law was intended for the nation of Israel. We do not live in a nation under religious laws. So there is no authority to judge people by those laws unless they were adopted by a nation.

But God is the judge with ultimate authority. So one should be more concerned with the second death.

 

[Jethro2]

It seems clear that promoting sexual perversion of any kind brings death.
It certainly kills any chance of fellowship with God or with God's people.

 

[The Learner]

What do you make of this?

Hebrews 8:7, 13 NIV
7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant,
no place would have been sought for another.
13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete;
and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

/

I love it.

 

[The Learner]

No need for false accusations simply because we disagree on this volatile subject.


What kind of homosexuality? (what do you include?)
If you mean promiscuity, I agree.

What do you include in the term "homosexuality"?
- Gender dysphoria?
- Gender Identity?
- Gender Roles?
- Transgender?
- Sexual Orientation?
- Monogamous relationships?

Unethical treatment of LGBTQ humans / Understanding LGBTQ - 101

1) Were LGBTQ humans created in the image of God?
2) Does God love LGBTQ humans?
3) Did Jesus die to pay the death penalty for LGBTQ humans?
4) Has the church recognized these factors?
5) Has the church acted accordingly?
6) What is your church, or fellowship, doing about this issue?
7) What can you do personally to grapple with this issue?

/

definitions please:
- Gender dysphoria?
- Gender Identity?
- Gender Roles?
- Transgender?
- Sexual Orientation?
- Monogamous relationships?

 

[The Learner]

The law was intended for the nation of Israel. We do not live in a nation under religious laws. So there is no authority to judge people by those laws unless they were adopted by a nation.

But God is the judge with ultimate authority. So one should be more concerned with the second death.

1 Corinthians 5:12 ►

New International Version What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?

 

[The Learner]

rth

 

[St. SteVen]

definitions please:
- Gender dysphoria?
- Gender Identity?
- Gender Roles?
- Transgender?
- Sexual Orientation?
- Monogamous relationships?

Glad you asked. Thank you.

Understanding LGBTQ - 101 / Terminology:
(note: we don't need to AGREE with these terms, but we do need to understand them)
I'm not an expert by any stretch; but this is what I have learned to date.

Birth Sex: The sex/gender you were born with.
Determined by the presence of male or female genitalia.
A small percentage are born with dual genitalia (asexual) or genitalia abnormalities.
See "Gender Assigned at Birth" below.

Gender Assigned at Birth: Now part of the paperwork doctors are required to fill out.
Allowing for parents to assign Non-Binary gender on the birth certificate.
Previously this was reserved for doctors and parents (hopefully) in cases of
dual genitalia (asexual) or genitalia abnormalities. (this subject is new to me)

Gender Identity: In most cases gender is determined by birth sex.
But as we have all seen, hormonal imbalances can give us a broad range of maleness and femaleness.
There are very masculine females and very feminine males. and everything in between.
See Gender Roles and Gender Dysphoria below.

Gender Roles: We see early signs of children gravitating toward gender specific interests.
Typically girls play with dolls and boys prefer trucks. But not always. Happens as early as 3 to 5 years.
We have seen a lot of evening out in this area. Opportunities for women in typically male roles.
Things have gone in the other direction as well. With more and more stay-at-home Dads.

Gender Dysphoria: The situation where a birth sex male feels that they are a female in a male body.
Or a birth sex female feels that they are a male in a female body. Usually realized in adolescence.
However, some children as young as 3 to 5 years old are acting on strong urges to opposite gender behavior.
Unfortunate, this has been OVER-STRESSED in recent years to epidemic proportions.
Gender identity is being pushed on anyone with a hormonal balance in either direction.
And has become popular in teen culture to pursue gender identity opposite their birth sex.

Transgender: A range of reactions to gender dysphoria. Manifesting in anything from
clothing and hair style preferences and name change to gender reassignment surgery.

Sexual Orientation: Attraction to opposite sex, or same-sex partners.
Note: Transgenderism does NOT automatically effect a change in sexual orientation.

Monogamous Relationships:
A couple in a lifetime commitment to each other regardless of sexual orientation.
Again, we don't need to AGREE with these terms, but we do need to UNDERSTAND them
in order to have any meaningful relationships with LGBTQ humans.

Discussion questions:
Please use the terminology laid about above in the discussion, thanks.
1) Were LGBTQ humans created in the image of God?
2) Does God love LGBTQ humans?
3) Did Jesus die to pay the death penalty for LGBTQ humans?
4) Has the church recognized these factors?
5) Has the church acted accordingly?
6) What is your church, or fellowship, doing about this issue?
7) What can you do personally to grapple with this issue?

/

 

[Jethro2]

I will be advocating for the side that homosexuality is inherently wrong, and the promotion of such actions and thoughts are evil. Similar or contrasting views are welcome and gladly accepted. Let us be in constant search for the truth during our discussion.

The sinfulness of mankind in these things is all too well known.

The discussions/ deceptions by false teachers is very much a shame.

They even make up words and definitions to act like educated ones, to hide the sin.

 

[Jethro2]

Whose business is it, whether a man has pure love or not?

God says those inside the assembly , the assembly is to judge (and to put out the wicked ones so the assembly is not befouled/sinful).

God says those outside the assembly , not a part of His people, He Himself Judges.

 

[GracePeace]

What do you make of this?

Hebrews 8:7, 13 NIV
7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant,
no place would have been sought for another.
13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete;
and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

/

In the context of Hebrews, it explicitly states that what was wrong with it was that animal blood could not take sins away, but Christ's blood can.

 

[GracePeace]

No, that's not what I am saying. God's law is different than the law.
It is also different from the Law (capital L) and Christ's law. See topic link below.

Observations about the law, the Law, God's law, Christ's law - four different things

/

You don't know anything about Scripture. You are at war with the God of Scripture. That's why you mangle God's Word--and you will pay a penalty.

 

[GracePeace]

No need for false accusations simply because we disagree on this volatile subject.


What kind of homosexuality? (what do you include?)
If you mean promiscuity, I agree.

What do you include in the term "homosexuality"?
- Gender dysphoria?
- Gender Identity?
- Gender Roles?
- Transgender?
- Sexual Orientation?
- Monogamous relationships?

Unethical treatment of LGBTQ humans / Understanding LGBTQ - 101

1) Were LGBTQ humans created in the image of God?
2) Does God love LGBTQ humans?
3) Did Jesus die to pay the death penalty for LGBTQ humans?
4) Has the church recognized these factors?
5) Has the church acted accordingly?
6) What is your church, or fellowship, doing about this issue?
7) What can you do personally to grapple with this issue?

/

Any kind of homosexuality--any time a man lies with another man to have sex, it is a violation of God's Law.

 

[GracePeace]

The law was intended for the nation of Israel. We do not live in a nation under religious laws. So there is no authority to judge people by those laws unless they were adopted by a nation.

But God is the judge with ultimate authority. So one should be more concerned with the second death.

Nope:
1. God told the Israelites to wipe the nations in Canaan out for violating laws against homosexuality, among other things (Leviticus 18), proving the Law contains not only commands that are particular to Jews, but also universal laws (eg, "Do not commit idolatry" applies to Gentiles as well--just as prohibitions against homosexual acts).
2. God said He never revealed His Law to another nation, but never said other individuals had not been shown it or did not know it. Even Noah knew what clean and unclean animals were, for instance.
3. The second death is for men who commit homosexual acts, among other sins, so you're helping them to be condemned.
4. The Church is a "nation", and we do have laws we walk by.

 

[GracePeace]

Glad you asked. Thank you.

Understanding LGBTQ - 101 / Terminology:
(note: we don't need to AGREE with these terms, but we do need to understand them)
I'm not an expert by any stretch; but this is what I have learned to date.

Birth Sex: The sex/gender you were born with.
Determined by the presence of male or female genitalia.
A small percentage are born with dual genitalia (asexual) or genitalia abnormalities.
See "Gender Assigned at Birth" below.

Gender Assigned at Birth: Now part of the paperwork doctors are required to fill out.
Allowing for parents to assign Non-Binary gender on the birth certificate.
Previously this was reserved for doctors and parents (hopefully) in cases of
dual genitalia (asexual) or genitalia abnormalities. (this subject is new to me)

Gender Identity: In most cases gender is determined by birth sex.
But as we have all seen, hormonal imbalances can give us a broad range of maleness and femaleness.
There are very masculine females and very feminine males. and everything in between.
See Gender Roles and Gender Dysphoria below.

Gender Roles: We see early signs of children gravitating toward gender specific interests.
Typically girls play with dolls and boys prefer trucks. But not always. Happens as early as 3 to 5 years.
We have seen a lot of evening out in this area. Opportunities for women in typically male roles.
Things have gone in the other direction as well. With more and more stay-at-home Dads.

Gender Dysphoria: The situation where a birth sex male feels that they are a female in a male body.
Or a birth sex female feels that they are a male in a female body. Usually realized in adolescence.
However, some children as young as 3 to 5 years old are acting on strong urges to opposite gender behavior.
Unfortunate, this has been OVER-STRESSED in recent years to epidemic proportions.
Gender identity is being pushed on anyone with a hormonal balance in either direction.
And has become popular in teen culture to pursue gender identity opposite their birth sex.

Transgender: A range of reactions to gender dysphoria. Manifesting in anything from
clothing and hair style preferences and name change to gender reassignment surgery.

Sexual Orientation: Attraction to opposite sex, or same-sex partners.
Note: Transgenderism does NOT automatically effect a change in sexual orientation.

Monogamous Relationships:
A couple in a lifetime commitment to each other regardless of sexual orientation.
Again, we don't need to AGREE with these terms, but we do need to UNDERSTAND them
in order to have any meaningful relationships with LGBTQ humans.

Discussion questions:
Please use the terminology laid about above in the discussion, thanks.
1) Were LGBTQ humans created in the image of God?
2) Does God love LGBTQ humans?
3) Did Jesus die to pay the death penalty for LGBTQ humans?
4) Has the church recognized these factors?
5) Has the church acted accordingly?
6) What is your church, or fellowship, doing about this issue?
7) What can you do personally to grapple with this issue?

/

None of it matters--any time the result is homosexual acts, it is condemned, no matter how scrambled your brain is when you do it.

 

[Peterlag]

I will be advocating for the side that homosexuality is inherently wrong, and the promotion of such actions and thoughts are evil. Similar or contrasting views are welcome and gladly accepted. Let us be in constant search for the truth during our discussion.

Put me down for wrong. This should not be hard to understand if we just read the first chapter of Romans.

 

[Jack]

Glad you asked. Thank you.

Understanding LGBTQ - 101 / Terminology:
(note: we don't need to AGREE with these terms, but we do need to understand them)
I'm not an expert by any stretch; but this is what I have learned to date.

Birth Sex: The sex/gender you were born with.
Determined by the presence of male or female genitalia.
A small percentage are born with dual genitalia (asexual) or genitalia abnormalities.
See "Gender Assigned at Birth" below.

Gender Assigned at Birth: Now part of the paperwork doctors are required to fill out.
Allowing for parents to assign Non-Binary gender on the birth certificate.
Previously this was reserved for doctors and parents (hopefully) in cases of
dual genitalia (asexual) or genitalia abnormalities. (this subject is new to me)

Gender Identity: In most cases gender is determined by birth sex.
But as we have all seen, hormonal imbalances can give us a broad range of maleness and femaleness.
There are very masculine females and very feminine males. and everything in between.
See Gender Roles and Gender Dysphoria below.

Gender Roles: We see early signs of children gravitating toward gender specific interests.
Typically girls play with dolls and boys prefer trucks. But not always. Happens as early as 3 to 5 years.
We have seen a lot of evening out in this area. Opportunities for women in typically male roles.
Things have gone in the other direction as well. With more and more stay-at-home Dads.

Gender Dysphoria: The situation where a birth sex male feels that they are a female in a male body.
Or a birth sex female feels that they are a male in a female body. Usually realized in adolescence.
However, some children as young as 3 to 5 years old are acting on strong urges to opposite gender behavior.
Unfortunate, this has been OVER-STRESSED in recent years to epidemic proportions.
Gender identity is being pushed on anyone with a hormonal balance in either direction.
And has become popular in teen culture to pursue gender identity opposite their birth sex.

Transgender: A range of reactions to gender dysphoria. Manifesting in anything from
clothing and hair style preferences and name change to gender reassignment surgery.

Sexual Orientation: Attraction to opposite sex, or same-sex partners.
Note: Transgenderism does NOT automatically effect a change in sexual orientation.

Monogamous Relationships:
A couple in a lifetime commitment to each other regardless of sexual orientation.
Again, we don't need to AGREE with these terms, but we do need to UNDERSTAND them
in order to have any meaningful relationships with LGBTQ humans.

Discussion questions:
Please use the terminology laid about above in the discussion, thanks.
1) Were LGBTQ humans created in the image of God?
2) Does God love LGBTQ humans?
3) Did Jesus die to pay the death penalty for LGBTQ humans?
4) Has the church recognized these factors?
5) Has the church acted accordingly?
6) What is your church, or fellowship, doing about this issue?
7) What can you do personally to grapple with this issue?

/

I seriously doubt that your opinions overrule God of the Bible.

I Cor 6 LGBT's will burn in Hell forever.