Homosexuality: Wrong or Right?
- Thread starter Pooh Bear
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
BlessedPeace
Well-Known Member
God does love all people... but He is pure and holy (set apart from darkness and evil)
He simply cannot accept anybody unless they turn from their sin, get born again, and abides IN Christ being led by His Spirit which is always based on His Word.
Maybe the thing to do is be celibate and not accept any sex related thoughts one way or the other.
The Apostle Paul spoke of it being better to be single so one could spend their time serving the Lord.
Walking with the Lord is better than anything as nothing this world has to offer can compare!
Matthew 18:9
And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
Sometimes it's best to throw some desires out altogether.
He simply cannot accept anybody unless they turn from their sin, get born again, and abides IN Christ being led by His Spirit which is always based on His Word.
Maybe the thing to do is be celibate and not accept any sex related thoughts one way or the other.
The Apostle Paul spoke of it being better to be single so one could spend their time serving the Lord.
Walking with the Lord is better than anything as nothing this world has to offer can compare!
Matthew 18:9
And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
Sometimes it's best to throw some desires out altogether.
Meaning you can't quote a single thing? It's all a jumble to you?
That's what I do... and I'm married! To a woman. That was born a woman.
(these days ya gotta throw in those important details ya know!)
Long story about her being previously married so our marriage is not acceptable to the Lord because her previous husbands are still alive. Kind of a messed up deal I got in to in the late 90s after having been a backslider for a few years... which is what I get for not waiting on the Lord's leading. Totally my fault.
Needless to say, we be just roommates... just as though I was sharing a home with my sister or something.
So years ago when all this became a problem the Lord gave me this great idea!
Just throw out any and all desire for intimacy!
It was doable because I can do ALL things thru Christ Who strengthens me!
So, in the end it all worked out great
The key you are missing is that homosexuals can do that too!
Don't forget the Bible said "David loved Jonathan with the love that was greater than the love of women" - they threw out any desire for intimacy and God helped them do it!
Being gay means one desires sex with those of their gender.... so no, this is not that
Men having friends is not called being gay.
The fact that the description "homosexual" is being attached... is what is not natural.
And they did NOT desire to have sex with each other either!
And whatever translation that is sounds bogus! Sounds like someone added in "that was greater than the love of women"
If that's there how do you know it's not speaking of their friendship with greater than the friendships women have with one another?
Women are typically better at making friends than men are.
Arthur81
Well-Known Member
By paraphrasing Lev. 18:22 by writing "Any man who lies with another man is committing an abomination", you have distorted and changed the meaning of God's word. The verse reads:
"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." (Lev 18:22 KJV)
"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination." (Lev 18:22 NRSV)
"You must not lie with a man as with a woman: that is an abomination." (Lev 18:22 REB)
The verse clearly does NOT read "any man", but is addressed to "thou", or "you" in standard English of today. Who are the "you" that the verse is written to? There is something called "context", and the book of Leviticus has context given clearly in the last verse of the book:
"These are the commandments that the LORD gave to Moses for the people of Israel on Mount Sinai." (Lev 27:34 NRSV)
Moses is writing to "the people of Israel on Mount Sinai", not the Christian of today. The apostle Paul does quote from Leviticus 5 times, but he does not quote Lev. 18:22; 20:13 as law for the New Covenant believer. The command "you shall love your neighbor as yourself" from Lev. 19:18b is quoted several times in the NT for the Christian, but it is for the Christian because it is given to us in the New Covenant, NOT because it is in the Bible, or in Leviticus.
Let's bring the context down closer to chapter 18 itself. Who is it written to and what is the purpose stated at the beginning of the chapter:
"And the LORD said to Moses, “Say to the people of Israel, I am the LORD your God. You shall not do as they do in the land of Egypt, where you dwelt, and you shall not do as they do in the land of Canaan, to which I am bringing you. You shall not walk in their statutes." (Lev 18:1-3 RSV)
Again, the commands are to the people of Israel, not to the New Covenant believer. It is important to study the Hebrew behind the last word in v3, "statutes", or "ordinances" in the KJV. Many of us speak of the two "ordinances" given to the church: the Lord's Supper and Baptism, so the word as used in the KJV has a religious rite meaning associated with it. The Hebrew translated statutes or ordinances is H2708 chuqqah, and for those who wish to know what that word means, just do a word study on it by searching H2708 with your Bible software. It is used over and over for the Passover, then in Leviticus about laws about food then rites in the tabernacle, etc. It is a word of religous rites or ordinances. Israel was not to practice the religious conduct listed in the chapter which were found in Egypt and Canaan. When you do research, you find all of the things mentioned are to be found in some idolatrous connection, even incest in the Pharoahs of Egypt.
Now let's bring the context down to v22 itself and we have the word "abomination" which translates the Hebrew H8441 to ebah and again if you do a word study, it is a word of religious rites or ritual. Lev. 18:22 is referring to idolatrous cult prostitution as in Deut. 23:17, again called an "abomination" -
"None of the daughters of Israel shall be a temple prostitute; none of the sons of Israel shall be a temple prostitute." (Deut 23:17 NRSV)
This is not new to a scholarly study of the text. From the Tyndale Old Testament Commentary on Leviticus, about 18:22 -
"The regulations of Leviticus condemn certain aberrations found among the Egyptians and Canaanites, who went far towards deifying sexual activity, and assigned the title 'holy ones' to cultic prostitutes. Sacro-homosexual practices and female prostitution within the context of the cultus was probably well established throughout the ancient Near East long before the Israelites occupied Canaan. Homosexuality of a non-religious variety is poorly documented in Mesopotamian texts..."
The IVP New Bible Dictionary, 3rd Edition reads -
"The force of the other OT references to homosexuality is similarly limited by the context in which they are set. Historically, homosexuality behaviour was linked with idolatrous cult prostitution (1 Ki. 14:24; 15:12; 22:46). The stern warnings of the levitical law (Lv. 18:22; 20:13) are primarily aimed at idolatry too; the word 'abomination' (to ebah), for example, which features in both these references is a religious term often used for idolatrous practices."
GracePeace, you spoke of having "any semblance of dignity on a Bible forum" and I suggest you do your study before speaking of the dignity of others. The sophomoric statements made by the replies in this thread makes one doubt if it is worth the time to even refute them. Of course, it is easy to throw about labels that have no equivalent in the biblical text, and make them mean whatever you wish. It takes time to study in order to know what you are talking about, and I see very little true study of the biblical text exhibited in this thread!
And yet.... if "any man" does this, it's an abomination to the Lord.
So he was presenting the Truth of God's Word just the same.
He said nothing that takes away from what the Lord said in his paraphrase... when the Lord says "if you do these things"... the Lord is in fact talking to ALL men and ANY man..
This public service announcement brought to you by your friendly... Mountain Out of Molehill Department!
Last edited:
Arthur81
Well-Known Member
That apparently is found in the Epistle of Big Boy Johnson.
GracePeace
Well-Known Member
Guy, you just dug your own grave with this post.
New Covenant believers aren't "under Law", because we have grace we're under, but Paul does say the Law was not made for righteous people, but to condemn homosexuals, and says homosexuality is "contrary to sound doctrine" (1 Ti 1:9+).
Not sure why you have an aversion to the Law. Lol Just kidding. I do have a really good idea as to why.
What you don't understand is the dynamic of how a "god" (for the Gentiles--all those who weren't God's people--these "gods" would have been demons, as Dt 32, and as Paul says) would have a people, and a people would have a god--ie, how that OF COURSE demons are giving these homosexual statutes to their nations, and how that OF COURSE you're unwittingly admitting homosexuality is inspired by demons today!
Back then, everyone committed idolatry openly, now they do it secretly (even they themselves don't know they're idolaters--many, for example, deny belief in any sort of deity at all).
So, here you come, claiming, "Hah! Read more closely, fellas! God loves it when you ram your pecker in another guy's defecation hole--He just doesn't like it when you do it for RELIGIOUS reasons!"
LOL Don't you remember Paul says, "or any covetous man, WHO IS AN IDOLATER"? Every sin, every "indulgence in the flesh" (Col 2:23), that is committed IS IDOLATRY.
Do you even think? Have you any recollection about that time when Jesus said to the Jews, "You are of your father, the devil, and his works you want to do"? Why? Because they wanted to murder a completely truthful man. They were committing idolatry, serving an idol, by harboring that evil in their hearts, and by going about to commit those acts--even while DENYING this fact, and insisting that, no, the God of Abraham was their father!
Now, you, not understanding, want to come and claim a distinction between "religious" homosexuality, and "non religious" homosexuality... THERE IS NO NON RELIGIOUS HOMOSEXUALITY! IT'S ALL INSPIRED BY DEMONS! BACK THEN, THEY OPENLY ADMITTED THAT THIS WAS FROM A DEMON, TODAY, IT'S STILL BEING INSPIRED BY DEMONS, AND IT'S STILL IDOLATRY, SERVING AN IDOL, BUT PEOPLE PRETEND THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A "BIOLOGICAL" LUST AND "RELIGIOUS" IDOLATRY! OOPS! YOU HAVEN'T READ YOUR BIBLE! Well, either that, or you have, but God has just not revealed these basic facts to you.
Romans 2 says the Gentile believers are "doers of the Law", who walk in the "ordinances" of God's Law, because the Spirit writes the Law on their hearts (Ro 2:13-15, 26, 27).
This has been addressed.
NEXT!
@St. SteVen @Big Boy Johnson @Gottservant @BlessedPeace @David in NJ @BarneyFife @Chain Breaker
Last edited:
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
I didn't get notified that you tagged me.
I noticed something interesting today. The LGBT folks who have church like to point to Ezekiel 16:49 to extricate themselves from the sodomy charge, saying that sexual sin wasn't Sodom's downfall.
The first sin listed is PRIDE. (It's almost like God booby-trapped the verse.)
I think a PRIDE parade rolled up on Lot and the angels.
.
Last edited:
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
LOL
That's a funny observation.
Are we proud to be Christians? Or ashamed?
This issue is not going away anytime soon.
The list of gay-friendly churches is growing. (as I understand it)
And they attempt to answer the biblical questions.
The Bible, Christianity and Homosexuality - GayChurch.org
/
GracePeace
Well-Known Member
Ezekiel actually says "therefore they were haughty and did an abomination" after saying that first part.I didn't get notified that you tagged me.
I noticed something interesting today. The LGBT folks who have church like to point to Ezekiel 16:49 to extricate themselves from the sodomy charge, saying that sexual sin wasn't Sodom's downfall.
The first sin listed is PRIDE. (It's almost like God booby-trapped the verse.)
I think a PRIDE parade rolled up on Lot and the angels.
.
Leviticus 18:22
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abominationLeviticus 20:13
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Genesis 19 Read this chapter
Romans 1:18-32
18) For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19) Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21)Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22)Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23)And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24)Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25)Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26)For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27)And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28)And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29)Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30)Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31)Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32)Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Jude 1:
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Those who advocate homosexuality use passages such as 2 Samuel 1:26 to support their position. It states that David and Jonathan had a relationship that surpassed the love of women. This is not referring to sexual love, however, but to a special friendship they had which exceeded or was different from any kind of sexual relationship. David and Jonathan would have been stoned under Levitical law had they been homosexuals (Lev. 18:22; 20:13).
God also condemns homosexuality in Genesis 19. Pro-homosexuals respond that the sin of Sodom was not homosexuality, but rape. However, the Sodomites did not initially force Lot’s male guests to have sex with them, but just by them mentioning it, Lot urged them not to do such a “wicked” thing (19:4-8). Other ancient sources such as Josephus and the New Testament (Jude 7) confirm that the sin of Sodom was homosexuality.
Additionally, Romans 1:21-32 and 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 clearly condemn lesbianism and homosexuality (cf., 1 Tim. 1:9,10). Homosexual advocates reply that Romans 1 refers only to phallic cults who committed idolatry. Along with 1 Corinthians 6, they claim that God is simply condemning excessive and promiscuous sex, not a dedicated relationship between two homosexuals.
First, let me say that if it were true that God is only condemning promiscuity, 90 to 99 percent of all homosexuals would fall into this category! According to recent studies, only about 1 out of 7 homosexuals have had fewer than 50 partners in their lifetime, and 99 percent of the male homosexuals interviewed have had sex with complete strangers! Nevertheless, the context of Romans and Corinthians affirm that homosexuality is completely unnatural (Rom. 1:26,27).
When categorized with the other sins mentioned in these passages, there is no such thing as a moderate form of homosexuality any more than there could be moderate form of murder or adultery. Finally, the Bible condemns all types of fornication which would therefore include homosexuality (Matthew 15:19; Mark 7:21; John 8:41; Acts 15:20,29: Gal. 5:19-21; 1 Thes. 4:3; Heb. 13:4).
GracePeace
Well-Known Member
I didn't get notified that you tagged me.
I noticed something interesting today. The LGBT folks who have church like to point to Ezekiel 16:49 to extricate themselves from the sodomy charge, saying that sexual sin wasn't Sodom's downfall.
The first sin listed is PRIDE. (It's almost like God booby-trapped the verse.)
I think a PRIDE parade rolled up on Lot and the angels.
.
They love to quote Ezekiel 16:49, as you say, to try to wave off the Christian who says the sin of Sodom was homosexuality, but let me quote the very next verse:
Ezekiel 16
50They were haughty and did an abomination before me. So I removed them, when I saw it.
Which "abomination" resulted from their haughtiness, which they arrived at through living self-centered lives? LOL Gee, I wonder... could it be SODOMY? LOL
Using their equipment in a way God never intended for it to be used!
That's why it's an abomination to the Lord... God created certain things to be a certain way, and satan seeks to get people to flip the scrip and do things the opposite of How God intended.
This is of couse what God tagged him with the name satan because he's set himself up to be God's adversary.
Those that can't see this and flow with God's adversary... will get satan's reward for all of eternity.
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
I would tend to agree, except for the LOL part, but I'm just being a fossil, I guess. When people use things like emoticons and acronyms, I tend to take them too seriously, I think. I'm sure you don't actually think it's funny that people are mired in sin and insanity.
.
GracePeace
Well-Known Member
No, I'm mocking the patheticness of their arguments they use to mislead Christians, and try to justify what is clearly unjustifiable.I would tend to agree, except for the LOL part, but I'm just being a fossil, I guess. When people use things like emoticons and acronyms, I tend to take them too seriously, I think. I'm sure you don't actually think it's funny that people are mired in sin and insanity.
.
They must be mocked, as they endanger multitudes of people with their lies, and make a mockery of God's Word.
Similar threads
