Homosexuality: Wrong or Right?

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TinMan

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Well, if you refer to political ideas, I agree. But ideology has gotten a bad rap, especially since we all have an ideology in various stages of development. I am speaking as a student of Jesus Christ, according to his ideology, which includes concepts such as "love your neighbor as yourself", "love your enemies", "pray for those who persecute you", and "the father forgave the prodigal son."
Faith is a personal belief in something that may not be provable by reason or evidence, while ideology is a system of ideas that is concerned with human progress and political action.
Faith is focused on inwardness and the redemption or purification of the human spirit, while ideology is focused on the group, the nation, or the class.
Faith may acknowledge its debt to revelation, while ideology always believes that it lives by reason alone.
The oughtness of murder doesn't depend on utility. Murder is wrong because only God has the right to terminate another man's life.
Sure it does. Killing another is wrong but not wrong in a war.
Killing another is wrong but not when done so in self defense.
Killing anouther is wrong but not to save the lives of others.
Not if the group doesn't exist. I am not convinced that deviant sexual orientation is innate.
Are you actually pretending that LGBT people don't exist?
Believing that fantasy characters exist doen't make them real. We can play games all day. Try thinking a bit deeper.
LGBT people are not fantasy characters.
It's a matter of expectation. In the context of a Christian message board, any question of right or wrong will be focused on the oughtness of a practice. On a cosmetics board, one might find a thread entitled "Blond: wrong or right?" But one would expect a discussion concerning hair color preference. That is, "Should I dye my hair blond or leave it brunette?" And whether a particular hair color is "right" or "wrong" depends on intangibles. Dying the hair is not a moral issue.
Yet you are trying to focus on exitance of LGBT people
I understand your argument that orientation is not a moral issue because, like hair color, orientation is just another attribute of human existence. I disagree for obvious reasons.
the only obvious reason is your personal prejudice.
How can we get more obvious than to remove our clothing to see that males and females have parts that are unique to their sex and unique to their role in reproduction? Any so-called orientation that is contrary to the design of reproductive organs is not conducive to the purpose and is, therefore, a learned behavior.
And still absolutely no evidence at all that it is learned.
I am not convinced that a scientist found proof of innate deviant orientation. I can believe, however, that someone paid a scientist to make such a claim.
Someone is paying thousands and thousands of scientists all over the world to risk their reputations and careers by creating fake research and doing so for decades and no one ahs caught any of these bribes and no scientis has ever felt the need to confess but still this MUST be happening.

Yeah that makes perfect sense.


Scientists are sinners and liars just like the rest of us. Some are honest, some are corrupted. But I don't need a scientist to tell me what I already know to be true. Form fits function.
And you don't need to look through the telescope because you already know the earth is the center of the universe.
How do you know someone is black? Look at his body. How do you know that a man is gay? Look at his behavior.
how do you tell is someone is a homophobe? They seem to think they can tell who is and who isn't gay by some form of telepathy
 

teamventure

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you made the actual claim that means it's up to you to back it up.

But since you can't you have to change the topic.

Unlike you I can back up the "implied claim"

Mario I. Suárez, Elizabeth W. Stackhouse, Jeffrey Keese & Christopher G. Thompson. (2023) A meta-analysis examining the relationship between parents’ sexual orientation and children's developmental outcomes. Journal of Family Studies 29:4, pages 1584-1605.

Christine D. Neresheimer & Moritz M. Daum. (2021) Parenting Styles of Gay Fathers. Journal of GLBT Family Studies 17:2, pages 102-117.

Michael A. Richards, Esther D. Rothblum, Theodore P. Beauchaine & Kimberly F. Balsam. (2017) Adult Children of Same-Sex and Heterosexual Couples: Demographic “Thriving”. Journal of GLBT Family Studies 13:1, pages 1-15.

Heather Sharples. (2017) Widening Inclusion for Gay Women Foster Carers — A Literature Review of the Sociological, Psychological and Economic Implications. Practice 29:1, pages 37-53.

Gipsy Hosking, Monique Mulholland & Barbara Baird. (2015) “We Are Doing Just Fine”: The Children of Australian Gay and Lesbian Parents Speak Out. Journal of GLBT Family Studies 11:4, pages 327-350.

Alicia L. Fedewa, Whitney W. Black & Soyeon Ahn. (2015) Children and Adolescents With Same-Gender Parents: A Meta-Analytic Approach in Assessing Outcomes. Journal of GLBT Family Studies 11:1, pages 1-34.

Katie M. Heiden Rootes. (2013) Wanted Fathers: Understanding Gay Father Families through Contextual Family Therapy. Journal of GLBT Family Studies 9:1, pages 43-64.

Jarred Pennington & Tess Knight. (2011) Through the lens of hetero-normative assumptions: re-thinking attitudes towards gay parenting. Culture, Health & Sexuality 13:1, pages 59-72.

Alicia Crowl, Soyeon Ahn & Jean Baker. (2008) A Meta-Analysis of Developmental Outcomes for Children of Same-Sex and Heterosexual Parents. Journal of GLBT Family Studies 4:3, pages 385-407.

David Henehan, EstherD. Rothblum, SondraE. Solomon & KimberlyF. Balsam. (2007) Social and Demographic Characteristics of Gay, Lesbian, and Heterosexual Adults with and Without Children. Journal of GLBT Family Studies 3:2-3, pages 35-79.

ScottD. Ryan, LauraE. Bedard & MarcG. Gertz. (2007) The Influence of Gender on the Placement of Children with Gay or Lesbian Adoptive Parents. Journal of GLBT Family Studies 3:1, pages 15-34.

Stephen Erich, Patrick Leung & Peter Kindle. (2005) A Comparative Analysis of Adoptive Family Functioning with Gay, Lesbian, and Heterosexual Parents and Their Children. Journal of GLBT Family Studies 1:4, pages 43-60.

Stephen Erich, Patrick Leung, Peter Kindle & Sharon Carter. (2005) Gay and Lesbian Adoptive Families: An Exploratory Study of Family Functioning, Adoptive Child's Behavior, and Familial Support Networks. Journal of Family Social Work 9:1, pages 17-32.

Pamela S. Lassiter, Daniel Gutierrez, Brian J. Dew & Lyndon P. Abrams. (2017) Gay and Lesbian Parents. The Family Journal 25:4, pages 327-335.

Francis A. Carneiro, Fiona Tasker, Fernando Salinas-Quiroz, Isabel Leal & Pedro A. Costa. (2017) Are the Fathers Alright? A Systematic and Critical Review of Studies on Gay and Bisexual Fatherhood. Frontiers in Psychology 8.

Sherri Sasnett. (2014) Are the Kids All Right? A Qualitative Study of Adults with Gay and Lesbian Parents. Journal of Contemporary Ethnography 44:2, pages 196-222.

Fiona Tasker. (2010) Same-Sex Parenting and Child Development: Reviewing the Contribution of Parental Gender. Journal of Marriage and Family 72:1, pages 35-40.

Alicia L. Fedewa, Whitney W. Black & Soyeon Ahn. (2015) Children and Adolescents With Same-Gender Parents: A Meta-Analytic Approach in Assessing Outcomes. Journal of GLBT Family Studies 11:1, pages 1-34.

Alicia Crowl, Soyeon Ahn & Jean Baker. (2008) A Meta-Analysis of Developmental Outcomes for Children of Same-Sex and Heterosexual Parents. Journal of GLBT Family Studies 4:3, pages 385-407.

Terry McVannel Erwin. (2007) Two Moms and a Baby. Women & Therapy 30:1-2, pages 99-149.

Stephen Erich, Patrick Leung & Peter Kindle. (2005) A Comparative Analysis of Adoptive Family Functioning with Gay, Lesbian, and Heterosexual Parents and Their Children. Journal of GLBT Family Studies 1:4, pages 43-60.

Stephen Erich, Patrick Leung, Peter Kindle & Sharon Carter. (2005) Gay and Lesbian Adoptive Families: An Exploratory Study of Family Functioning, Adoptive Child's Behavior, and Familial Support Networks. Journal of Family Social Work 9:1, pages 17-32.

KarenI. Fredriksen-Goldsen & PaulineI. Erera. (2004) Lesbian-Headed Stepfamilies. Journal of Human Behavior in the Social Environment 8:2-3, pages 171-187.

Stephen Erich, Heather Kanenberg, Kim Case, Theresa Allen & Takis Bogdanos. (2009) An empirical analysis of factors affecting adolescent attachment in adoptive families with homosexual and straight parents. Children and Youth Services Review 31:3, pages 398-404.

Norman Anderssen, Christine Amlie & Erling André Ytterøy. (2008) Outcomes for children with lesbian or gay parents. A review of studies from 1978 to 2000. Scandinavian Journal of Psychology 43:4, pages 335-351.

Jorge C. Armesto. (2002) Developmental and contextual factors that influence gay fathers' parental competence: A review of the literature.. Psychology of Men & Masculinity 3:2, pages 67-78.

Charlotte J. Patterson & Richard E. Redding. (1996) Lesbian and Gay Families with Children: Implications of Social Science Research for Policy. Journal of Social Issues 52:3, pages 29-50.
I didn't say I couldn't find anything.

This headline proves my point.

Adult children of lesbian parents less likely to identify as straight, study finds

 
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BarneyFife

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St. SteVen

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Some other topic ideas in this vein.

Church Pot Luck Gluttony: Wrong or Right?​


False Face Church Greetings: Wrong or Right?​


Indifference: Wrong or Right?​


Doctrinal Feuds: Wrong or Right?​


Condemning Others: Wrong or Right?​


Biblioltry: Wrong or Right?​


Pretty easy to judge homosexuality and ignore other GLARING problems.
(now they will probably call me gay) Figures.

1696289060666.gif
 
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St. SteVen

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Wow, you're fast!

I deleted it because I wanted to modify it before you could get to it, but no-o-o-o!

I don't normally joke about this kind of thing, but I'm in a mood, so...

.
No worries. I gave the set up. Good response.
Yes, no joking matter. (but I can't resist)

What did you think of the topic title suggestions?
 

St. SteVen

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Wow, you're fast!
I suppose it's funny because I'm a bit irreverent.
Not worried about putting on a face. (mask)

I liked the comment earlier about defending racial equality.
The response was, "Doesn't mean I'm black."
 

BarneyFife

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Church Pot Luck Gluttony: Wrong or Right?

Wrong! "And put a knife to thy throat, if thou be a man given to appetite." :r.u.n:


False Face Church Greetings: Wrong or Right?

Honestly, I'd rather fake it than give in to faulty neurotransmitter function. :doldrums: :kiaora:

Indifference: Wrong or Right?

I'm indifferent about this issue. :hmhehm

Doctrinal Feuds: Wrong or Right?

So right! :Oh no:

Condemning Others: Wrong or Right?

Why kid ourselves? We honestly don't have the authority to condemn—only to warn. :stageright:

Biblioltry: Wrong or Right?

You mean "Bibliolatry," don't you? Did you see my post about ultra-literalism in Devin's OSAS thread?

You know the cure for that stuff, right? "Every word that proceeds..."—not just the ones that make you feel comfy or help you stay in good with Dad.

Work out the paradoxes with fear and trembling, Dude!

Pretty easy to judge homosexuality and ignore other GLARING problems.

What is it with everybody and the J-word?

Come on, SS! Don't you know we're going to judge angels?

Judge with righteous judgment!

Am I being unreasonable?

1696289060666.gif

I confess that I love "The Soup Nazi" episode of "the television show about absolutely nothing."

Or is that "Friends?"

Oh, what's the difference, right? :Agreed:

.
 
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BarneyFife

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No worries. I gave the set up. Good response.
Yes, no joking matter. (but I can't resist)

No worries here, either. Like I said, I'm in a mood so...

Pretty easy to judge homosexuality and ignore other GLARING problems.
(now they will probably call me gay) Figures.

What are ya, gay or something?!!!

Interesting (or maybe not) story: We just got back from vacationing in Myrtle Beach, SC. On the way down, we stopped in Low Moor, Virginia, of all places, and stayed at a discounted, but remarkably clean and serviceable hotel. The adjacent '50s-styled diner did double duty as a check-in/front desk.

One of the attendants/waitstaff there was a big, burly 20-something dude with pretty blond hair down to his waist (not that uncommon, right?) and brashly pink-stained lips (getting more common, I guess?). He spoke with a southern drawl and was just as hospitable as the day is long. I quite liked him and enjoyed chatting with him very much.

When we paid the dinner bill and headed toward our room, we had trouble getting the keycard to work with the access door to the accommodations building. My wife dashed away to get help and here he came dramatically sashaying across the few parking spaces between the diner and the hotel with his hand firmly planted on one hip. He helped us get into the building and said a few apologies and some other welcoming words assuring us we'd have no trouble with our room door lock before, again, sashaying away into the night.

I have no idea what this fellow's "sexual orientation" is or if he'd even be very happy about me referring to him as a fellow, for that matter. The subject just never came up.

But as pleasant as this encounter was, I'd be lying if I said it wasn't absolutely surreal on some level.

When I was in high school, I lived in east Tenessee in the town where my parents were born and raised. The elementary schools there were unofficially segregated even as late as the early '80s. The N-word is still not frowned upon there in most circles of society. Looking back, I'm glad we didn't have anyone like Mr. Low Moor in town because I probably would have died defending him from getting pummeled to death every night. I had friends who are no longer friends because of their attitudes about such things. My former best friend and my sister's ex-husband (same person) comes to mind.

And none of this has anything to do with what the Bible says about the moral value of homosexuality.

Or does it?

.
 
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teamventure

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Some other topic ideas in this vein.

Church Pot Luck Gluttony: Wrong or Right?​


False Face Church Greetings: Wrong or Right?​


Indifference: Wrong or Right?​


Doctrinal Feuds: Wrong or Right?​


Condemning Others: Wrong or Right?​


Biblioltry: Wrong or Right?​


Pretty easy to judge homosexuality and ignore other GLARING problems.
(now they will probably call me gay) Figures.

View attachment 36779
Because eating too much at a church potluck is just as big of an issue as homosexuality taking over the whole world. Give me a break.
 

Sheila3

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I will be advocating for the side that homosexuality is inherently wrong, and the promotion of such actions and thoughts are evil. Similar or contrasting views are welcome and gladly accepted. Let us be in constant search for the truth during our discussion.
In the Old Testament scripture says that a man lying with a man as with a woman is an abomination and in the New Testament that says that one who does such practices cannot enter heaven, and it means one who fervently, willingly, continually, practice such things.

Now they've changed the wording of scripture in the newer printed translations of the Bible and some people will dictate it doesn't mean as interpreted throughout the centuries.

But God's word said it's wrong and he's against it _ as well as many other things he is against and those of us who practice the things that he is against will suffer the consequences laid out in Scripture.
 
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TinMan

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I didn't say I couldn't find anything.

This headline proves my point.

Adult children of lesbian parents less likely to identify as straight, study finds

Being a minority isn't harmful.

it is also interesting to note that the very article you quoted contradicts your own claim.


"In a study published last year in the New England Journal of Medicine, Gartrell and her co-authors showed that from a mental health perspective, adult children with lesbian parents fared just as well as their peers with opposite-sex parents.

“They are doing very, very well,” she said of these adult offspring.

Gartrell added that her work “challenges ancient stereotypes and fears” that children would be psychologically harmed by growing up with same-sex parents and the vast majority would be gay themselves. These fears, she said, “hold no water whatsoever.”"