Homosexuality: Wrong or Right?

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BarneyFife

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You wrote "every time you see a biblical reference to fornication, adultery, or sexual immorality, homosexuality is included" and you have indeed included the lousy modern choice in translation, changing from "fornication" to "sexual immorality". Yes indeed, you can stick whatever you wish under "sexual morality", but it is only your opinion. Nowhere in scripture do you find fornication or adultery in a context of two males? I can only find M-F contexts. I see a lot of pious sounding phrasing in your reply, but NO scripture with your exegesis.

There are ten commandments that the children of Adam are to live by. The seventh condemns any sexual activity or intimate co-habitation outside of the union between two committed persons, one each of male AND female anatomy.

No high-brow, sophisticated "exegesis" is required to understand that, which is for good cause because, as Abraham Lincoln said: "God must have really loved the common people because He has made so many of them."

And while "enlightened" people amuse themselves spinning a hypothetical web of confusion the human race, consisting of actual, individual precious souls for whom Christ died, is going to rack and ruin both in physical and mental health.

Stories of detached or nameless individuals who are marginalized by society may make those who sympathize with their suffering feel better while they do nothing else to solve real problems beyond keeping their sofa cushions warm, but Christ's lost sheep perish nonetheless for their sickly sentimentalism.

The wages of sin is death, and the perverse type is in pandemic mode.

.
 

David in NJ

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You wrote: "#1. God determined that His 'Good' Creation is the Dictionary for His Children to find the definition(s) of sin."

Show me the scripture passage or verse that states that. You can only read that into the scripture out of your own mind. The fact God created two sexes, male and female, has nothing to do with some few males having sex with other males. There are quirks and anomalies in fallen nature that are not sin. As in Jesus' example, divorce did not exist at the beginning, but in our fallen state, in the case of a spouse's fornication, divorce is okayed by Jesus. In the physical realm, being born as intersex, both male and female sex organs, is any choice in dealing with it going to be sin? I suppose color blindness or left handedness is also sin.
@Arthur81 says: "The fact God created two sexes, male and female, has nothing to do with some few males having sex with other males."

You are 100% CORRECT - AND - once again, you underscore and highlight God's Dictionary of Good vs Evil/Sin!!!

TRUTH 101 = God created male to female marriage/sexual union and men with men has absolutely nothing to do with God's Good Creation.
 
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BarneyFife

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@David in NJ and to whomever may have read this post before:

NOTE: I have edited and reposted this to ensure that it's clear that I have the utmost compassion for actual victims of satanic harassment that comes in the form of temptations to perversion of every kind.

THE RELIGIOUS WAR ON LGBTQ IS PRODUCING COLLATERAL DAMAGE among a large percentage of those termed gay men, of whom a 2019 study by the Yale School of Medicine indicates 83% are closeted. If 3% of males are gay, then 2-3 in a hundred are closeted. Many of those are closeted because of religion, are in the pews. To those boys/men, these following scriptures may be of help.

Jesus said of the religious leaders of His day: "Yea, they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with their finger." (Matt 23:4 ASV)

Jesus said to those burdened by the religious leaders: "Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." (Matt 11:28-30 ASV) * Jesus does not say, "unless you are gay"!

The sin of adultery is mentioned 56 times in the Bible, the sin of fornication is in the Bible 40 times. Yet the NT Greek word modern translations often translate as homosexuality (arsenokoites) is found only twice in the NT: 1 Cor. 6:9 and 1 Tim. 1:10. Two things to notice, 1st, the Greek translated "homosexuality" is distinguished from fornicators and adulterers; 2nd, the 2021 Updated Edition of the NRSV, by the Society of Biblical Literature states about the word arsenokoites: "Meaning of Gk uncertain".

If sex between two males itself alone was major sin, why is it not in the Ten Commandments? Why did Jesus not mention it when he spoke of Sodom? Why, when Paul is listing some commandments and love of neighbor, why did he not list it as sin?

"For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this word, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: love therefore is the fulfilment of the law." (Rom 13:9-10 ASV) * True biblical love is not emotions or sexual desire, it is about how you treat others, as you wish to be treated, 1 Cor. 13:4-7.

About the Sodom story; has a gay forced himself on another, sodomizing? Breaking down the door? Gen. 19:9

The Leviticus reference, is for whom? "These are the commandments, which Jehovah commanded Moses for the children of Israel in mount Sinai." (Lev 27:34 ASV) *It was for the Israelite under the law of Moses; and Mosaic Law was "abolished" in Christ, Eph. 2:15 by nailing it to the cross, Col. 2:14.

The Rom. 1:27 reference clearly speaks of those so much "consumed with lust"(RSV), or "burned in their lust"(ASV), therefore they "gave up"(RSV) sex with women, or "leaving" sex with women. Has a gay been in a relationship with a woman from which he left or gave up? We supposedly use the "Historical-grammatical" approach to biblical interpretation. Why then do many ignore the historical and read into a passage their ideas from our culture of today? What was it like when Paul wrote this? A Greek philosopher living in Paul's day describes it just as Paul has, but in much greater detail -

From the Greek philosopher Dio Chrysostom (40-110 AD) in The Seventh or Euboean Discourse

Phrasing lifted from text numbered 133 through 152

"In dealing with brothel-keepers and their trade we must certainly betray no weakness as though something were to be said on both sides, but must sternly forbid them...Such men bring individuals together in union without love and intercourse without affection, and all for the sake of filthy lucre...For evils are never wont to remain as they are; they are ever active and advancing to greater wantonness if they meet no compelling check...Indeed, beginning with practices and habits that seem trivial and allowable, it acquires a strength and force that are uncontrollable, and no longer stops at anything...Now at this point we must assuredly remember that this adultery committed with outcasts, so evident in our midst and becoming so brazen and unchecked, is to a very great extent paving the way to hidden and secret assaults upon the chastity of women and boys of good family...The man whose appetite is insatiate in such things, when he finds there is no scarcity, no resistance, in this field, will have contempt for the easy conquest and scorn for a woman's love, as a thing too readily given — in fact, too utterly feminine — and will turn his assault against the male quarters, eager to befoul the youth who will very soon be magistrates and judges and generals, believing that in them he will find a kind of pleasure difficult and hard to procure. His state is like that of men who are addicted to drinking and wine-bibbing, who after long and steady drinking of unmixed wine, often lose their taste for it and create an artificial thirst by the stimulus of sweatings, salted foods, and condiments."

That does not seem to be describing simple sex between two males; but it is heterosexuals who are so eaten up with lust they eagerly rush into such depravity.

Demanding that a gay man/boy act contrary to his sexual nature for salvation, is to force him to rely on his own righteousness, and ignoring saved by grace through faith. But scripture reads -

"For they ignore God’s way of righteousness, and try to set up their own, and therefore they have not submitted themselves to God’s righteousness; for Christ is the end of the law and brings righteousness for everyone who has faith...If the confession ‘Jesus is Lord’ is on your lips, and the faith that God raised him from the dead is in your heart, you will find salvation. For faith in the heart leads to righteousness, and confession on the lips leads to salvation." (Rom 10:3-4, 9-10 REB)

"Christ was innocent of sin, and yet for our sake God made him one with human sinfulness, so that in him we might be made one with the righteousness of God." (2Cor 5:21 REB)

"There is no salvation through anyone else; in all the world no other name has been granted to mankind by which we can be saved." (Acts 4:12 REB)

There are definitely a couple of verses in Romans 14 that need to be considered:

"Who are you to pass judgment on servants of another? It is before their own lord that they stand or fall. And they will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make them stand." (Rom 14:4 NRSV) * It is the Holy Spirit who will convict the regenerate of sin if he is mistaken and in error. John 16:7ff

"it is right not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that makes your brother stumble. The faith that you have, keep between yourself and God; happy is he who has no reason to judge himself for what he approves. But he who has doubts is condemned, if he eats, because he does not act from faith; for whatever does not proceed from faith is sin." (Rom 14:21-23 RSV)

I neither endorse nor promote homosexuality, but it exists, and with the extremes seen in religious circles that come across as homophobic, I present here a scholarly counter-balance.

Absolute rubbish. The mental scars that remain fom non-homosexual perversion are nearly if not every bit (in many cases) as spiritually deforming as are those of the homosexual type.

And every time you see a biblical reference to fornication, adultery, or sexual immorality, homosexuality is included and implied in the spiritual condemnation.

The human race is not going to escape reaping the carnal seed it has sown apart from the infinite grace of the LORD Jesus Christ. If the common sins are described by Him as the metaphorical eye that must be plucked out, how much more then should we devolve upon ourselves to cast sexual perversion at the foot of our dear Saviour.

In the inner cities, fornication is so rampant that genetic mutations are being promulgated at an unprecedented and exponential rate.

The hook-up culture has people who don't even know they are brother and sister toying with the sacred charge to leave father and mother and cleave one to another.

As a result, children are developing what used to be called adult-onset diabetes and having heart attacks and strokes!

ENOUGH OF THE CODDLING OF THOSE (HYPOTHETICAL PERSONS) WHO PERSIST IN STRANGE AMALGAMATION!!! IT'S TIME THE CHILDREN OF ADAM CAME TO THEIR SENSES!!! LET THEM FALL UPON THE NECK OF CHRIST AND EMBRACE HIM WHOLLY!!!

HE WILL SUPPLY THEIR EVERY NEED!!!

.
 

David in NJ

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There are ten commandments that the children of Adam are to live by. The seventh condemns any sexual activity or intimate co-habitation outside of the union between two committed persons, one each of male AND female anatomy.

No high-brow, sophisticated "exegesis" is required to understand that, which is for good cause because, as Abraham Lincoln said: "God must have really loved the common people because He has made so many of them."

And while "enlightened" people amuse themselves spinning a hypothetical web of confusion the human race, consisting of actual, individual precious souls for whom Christ died, is going to rack and ruin both in physical and mental health.

Stories of detached or nameless individuals who are marginalized by society may make those who sympathize with their suffering feel better while they do nothing else to solve real problems beyond keeping their sofa cushions warm, but Christ's lost sheep perish nonetheless for their sickly sentimentalism.

The wages of sin is death, and the perverse type is in pandemic mode.

.

Well my Brother, i did not know that you had it in you!!!

HalleluYAH
 

David in NJ

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Me too - a break from this zoo is good once in a while. Sadly, it looks as though things have devolved since we left.

We have some real lunatics joining us.

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Well, we have just experienced the full moon!

I just wish that explained it, and people were able to morph back into Biblical Reality otherwise know as TRUTH = His WORD
 

amigo de christo

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@Arthur81 asks: "If sex between two males itself alone was major sin, why is it not in the Ten Commandments? Why did Jesus not mention it when he spoke of Sodom?"

Dear Arthur,

The answer to your question is as obvious as the nose on a person's face!

It is called Foundational Truth found in the Holy Scriptures that were written for children to understand.

God's Children's Book begins in Genesis = "Male and Female HE created them"
Many are headed down the inclusive false love dont correct road my friend . many .
 

Rella ~ I am a woman

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Your 1995 NASB translates arsenokoites as "homosexuals"; but the NKJV translates malakos as homosexuals.

Noun[edit]​

ἀρσενοκοίτης (arsenokoítēs) m (genitive ἀρσενοκοίτου); first declension

  1. a male who has sexual intercourse with males, especially in a penetrative role
ich Whis it? Sounds to me like the footnote in the NRSVue is right about the uncertainty of the Greek. If you read the KJV, RV, ASV and YLT, and use the 1828 Webster's Dictionary on the key words of 1 Cor. 6:9 and 1 Tim. 1:10; you see arsenokoites is sodomites, which is NOT homosexuals and the 1828 makes it perfectly clear what sodomites are.

So if anal intercourse is not appropriate description of homosexuals , guess that would also rule out oral copulation?

If this is not descriptive of homosexuals and how they "get off" ohhhhhhhhhhhhh
excuse me... I keep forgetting removed due to content

Your Point is made. NASB is wrong.
There is no variance in the Greek manuscripts on these words, so new discoveries can't affect it. I'll stay with the older, standard translations on this. After the 1946 erred in translating by "homosexuals", the more scholarly translations quit using the term; the RSV Rev Ed, NRSV and REB. The word and concept of homosexuality did not even come into English until 1900, since the concept originated in Germany in 1869. The Bible has no Hebrew or Greek word equivalent to "homosexual".
BUT GOD HAD DESCRIPTIONS, AND GOD HAD A WORD.

THAT WORD BEING ABOMINATION

Septuagint LXX Lev 18:22
22 And thou shalt not lie with a man as with a woman, for it is an abomination.

Septuagint LXX Lev 20: 13
13 And whoever shall lie with a male as with a woman, they have both wrought abomination; let them die the death, they are guilty.
 

BarneyFife

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Noun[edit]​

ἀρσενοκοίτης (arsenokoítēs) m (genitive ἀρσενοκοίτου); first declension

  1. a male who has sexual intercourse with males, especially in a penetrative role


So if anal intercourse is not appropriate description of homosexuals , guess that would also rule out oral copulation?

If this is not descriptive of homosexuals and how they "get off" ohhhhhhhhhhhhh
excuse me... I keep forgetting removed due to content

Your Point is made. NASB is wrong.

BUT GOD HAD DESCRIPTIONS, AND GOD HAD A WORD.

THAT WORD BEING ABOMINATION

Septuagint LXX Lev 18:22
22 And thou shalt not lie with a man as with a woman, for it is an abomination.

Septuagint LXX Lev 20: 13
13 And whoever shall lie with a male as with a woman, they have both wrought abomination; let them die the death, they are guilty.

I wouldn't count on the NASB being wrong.

IMO, your perspective is very valuable in this conversation because you seem quite able to see holistic sexuality in terms that are not primarily anti-homosexual.

We are not going to be effective in ministering to victims of sensuality until we dispense with the hypocrisy that's baked into even our heterosexual "Christian" relationships, affected, as they are by the nearly 6 decade-long sexual revolution.

God is not mocked. What we as keepers of the Oracles of God have sown, that we are also reaping.

.
 

St. SteVen

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I reported one last night that was bouncing around and consigning people's souls to the devil and cursing whomever might dare to delete the posts. Sheeshalooza!

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I heard there were 63 of those messages. (copy/paste)
I had counted 48 in a search. (only one left on last look) Probably gone now.

/
 
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St. SteVen

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I've been getting more than my usual share of maniacal DMs, too.

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Is a DM a Direct message? What I call a PM, private message?
I got a nastygram last week. Troll was already removed by the time I saw it.

I guess this has been an ongoing issue. I just became aware of it last week.
It was a zoo on one topic.

/
 
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BarneyFife

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Is a DM a Direct message? What I call a PM, private message?
I got a nastygram last week. Troll was already removed by the time I saw it.

I guess this has been an ongoing issue. I just became aware of it last week.
It was a zoo on one topic.

/

Yeah, I never know what to call it anymore. There was AOL Instant Message, Yahoo (YIM), and countless other stuff - lol.

.
 
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St. SteVen

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Yeah, I never know what to call it anymore. There was AOL Instant Message, Yahoo (YIM), and countless other stuff - lol.

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This message I got from a forum brother was very encouraging. Worth sharing.

PRO 26:2 Like a sparrow in its flitting, like a swallow in its flying, a curse that is causeless does not alight.
I've been told that if a witch tries to curse you and you are a strong Christian, that curse will return unto them and they will suffer its intent.


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St. SteVen

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Me too. I reported that one cause I was one of the recipients of that
They were all over the forum this AM. I heard a count of 63.

I award the best response to @Truthnightmare See post #21 at link below.


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