Here is why, as an Adventist, I believe America is in Trouble.

[David in NJ]

WHERE in the New Testament does God's Word say those that do not observe Saturday sabbath are... in sin??? View attachment 41107

Let's see what you pull out yo backside to answer that! View attachment 41108

It is there but it is under the NEW COVENANT Terms by which the LORD fulfilled Exodus 31:12-17

If Christ did not Fulfill Exodus 31:12-17 then HE died in sin and all is in vain.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Before i give you the LORD'S direct statement

You'll have to fabricate something because... the Lord and His Apostles never taught anybody that God requires them to have church services on Saturday

It is there but it is under the NEW COVENANT Terms by which the LORD fulfilled Exodus 31:12-17

You failed to post where in the New Testament Jesus or His Apostles instructed Christians to go to church in Saturday or they would burn in hell forever.

Would you like to back up and punt at this point, or do you want to try again from the New Testament.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Moses, saying, 13“Speak also to the children of Israel

He spoke to the children of Israel...

In the New Covenant, Jesus is our High Priest so show us where Jesus taught Saturday sabbath was required for salvation from the New Testament scriptures.

 

[David in NJ]

He spoke to the children of Israel...

In the New Covenant, Jesus is our High Priest so show us where Jesus taught Saturday sabbath was required for salvation from the New Testament scriptures. View attachment 41117

i never said JESUS commanded us to continue in the Saturday observance or die.

Go back and read my Posts carefully because you are getting tripped up on 'Saturday' as opposed to the Fulfilment of Exodus 31:12-17 and the continuation of the REST or DEATH under the NEW COVENANT.

If Christ did not Fulfill Exodus 31:12-17 then HE died in sin and all is in vain.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Hey you're the one arguing in favor of Saturday sabbath

In Post ##414 you said this...

However, the Commandment to REST or DEATH is still in EFFECT as stated in Exodus ch31 but now is BINDING on ALL the world.... Where did the LORD Jesus Christ state this Declaration of REST or DEATH

You claim is the entire world either does Saturday sabbath or dies.

If you are NOT arguing in favor of Saturday sabbath you should make that point clear... in a thread about SDA religious stuff

 

[David in NJ]

Hey you're the one arguing in favor of Saturday sabbath

In Post ##414 you said this...

However, the Commandment to REST or DEATH is still in EFFECT as stated in Exodus ch31 but now is BINDING on ALL the world.... Where did the LORD Jesus Christ state this Declaration of REST or DEATH

You claim is the entire world either does Saturday sabbath or dies.

If you are NOT arguing in favor of Saturday sabbath you should make that point clear... in a thread about SDA religious stuff

Read it again = However, the Commandment to REST or DEATH is still in EFFECT as stated in Exodus ch31 but now is BINDING on ALL the world.... Where did the LORD Jesus Christ state this Declaration of REST or DEATH

Saturday is not even mentioned by me here as in the New Covenant.

However, the Saturday 7th Day of Rest had to be fulfilled by CHRIST

 

[BarneyFife]

And we can gather together on any day of the week as well seeing the New Covenant does not instruct believers on what day to gather.




You failed to mention Jesus KEPT the entire law as to go to the Cross as having perfectly kept the aw... which is the fulfillment. It is finished (John 19:30)

Then He took the law and the entire old covenant away to establish a New Covenant which is...

Hebrews 3:5,6
And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after; But Christ as a Son over His own house; whose house are we, IF we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Now, there is a new house, the Body of Jesus Christ! Under the New Covenant that the Lord said would come forth, we see Jesus Christ as the High Priest. The old covenant with it’s laws and regulations have been taken away because thru Jesus Christ a new and better covenant has come in to place.

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
(God said He would make a New Covenant - see Jeremiah 31:31-34)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath Jesus obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also Jesus is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

And with the changing of the priesthood, God’s Word tells us there is also a change of the law.

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Hebrews 4:8-11
For if Jesus had given them rest (sabbath under the OT), then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

The rest New Testament believers are called to is... to abide IN Christ, living by faith and faith is action!

Can't be the same law.

Verses 16-18 of Hebrews 7 says the law that is being changed is carnal/fleshly, weak, and unprofitable:

Heb 7:16-18
16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. 17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. 18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

But Romans 7 says that the law is spiritual, holy, just and good.

Rom 7:12-14
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. 13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Verse 14 even directly contrasts "spiritual" with "carnal," thoroughly impeaching the theory that Hebrews 7 is talking about the moral law being changed.

Are we really supposed to believe that "carnal" = "spiritual" and that "weak and unprofitable" = "holy, just, and good?"

.

 

[Davy]

Of course, you mean verse 16, I guess, and if you knew anything about Greek at all you'd never have claimed such a thing.

All you are doing is trying to misrepresent what the Greek text shows, just so you can try to push your Jewish traditions.

Col 2:16
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath (NT:4521) days:
KJV


NT:4521
sabbaton (sab'-bat-on); of Hebrew origin [OT:7676]; the Sabbath (i.e. Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension, a se'nnight, i.e. the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications:

KJV - sabbath (day), week.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006, 2010 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

 

[Davy]

Great Post and YES, we SEE once again the Harlot 'spreading herself'

Rev 17:1-3
Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and talked with me, saying to me, “Come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters, with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication.”

Both Dems and Reps are colluding behind closed doors = with the 'blessing' of the Pope and the 'blessing' of the spirit of antichrist.


P.S. - only God's Word stands alone - SAD must follow or they end up going off-course, even a little

It don't matter how much the deceived try to push a pope as the Antichrist, or as the false prophet, those ideas are designed by the devil's host to keep them deceived, because they aren't even keeping God's written Word with those ideas about a pope as the Antichrist.

Jesus pointed to the coming Antichrist at the end of this world as a false-Messiah.

Now I will admit there are probably some Catholics that are ignorant enough to believe a pope can be the Messiah of The Bible, but I guarantee that the true Christian servant of Christ that studies their Bible would never fall to that baloney. Such an idea of a pope being the coming false-Messiah is a JOKE upon the deceived!

Well just what are... the Biblical requirements of prophesied Messiah of The Bible? That means one MUST use comparisons to The Lord Jesus Christ Himself! Jesus of Nazareth was born of the tribe of Judah, of the house of David. So also will the coming Antichrist claim that origin from the Jews. This is so... easy.

Hippolytus (180-230 A.D.), from his Treatise On Christ And Antichrist:

Now, as our Lord Jesus Christ, who is also God, was prophesied of under the figure of a lion, on account of His royalty and glory, in the same way have the Scriptures also aforetime spoken of Antichrist as a lion, on account of his tyranny and violence. For the deceiver seeks to liken himself in all things to the Son of God. Christ is a lion, so Antichrist is also a lion; Christ is a king, so Antichrist is also a king. The Saviour was manifested as a lamb; so he too, in like manner, will appear as a lamb, though within he is a wolf. The Saviour came into the World in the circumcision, and he will come in the same manner. The Lord sent apostles among all the nations, and he in like manner will send false apostles. The Saviour gathered together the sheep that were scattered abroad, and he in like manner will bring together a people that is scattered abroad. The Lord gave a seal to those who believed on Him, and he will give one like manner. The Saviour appeared in the form of man, and he too will come in the form of a man. The Saviour raised up and showed His holy flesh like a temple, and he will raise a temple of stone in Jerusalem.​

 

[Davy]

First, it's not a Jewish Sabbath. What do the scriptures say as to whose Sabbath it is?
Second, no-one is suggesting, nor has anyone done so in the past, that we are only to be in Christ one day a week. Where do you get these ideas from?

"These Sunday preachings"? Paul only preached to Christians? Yet known as the Apostle to the Gentiles? And pray tell us , how did Gentiles gain access to the synagogues but not to the Christian home churches? What do you think Paul was doing on the other days of the week? And you didn't answer the question. Why did the gentiles not ask to meet with Paul on Sunday? Because Paul told them they weren't allowed to? They weren't welcome? They hadn't gone through the initiation ceremonies?

Sorry, I'm not going to listen to rants that go against what Apostle Paul said in Colossians 2 that the Christian IS NOT TO BE JUDGED regarding any holy day, new moon, or SABBATH day.

 

[Brakelite]

After all the to-ing and fro-ing, it is at least good to know that no-one is arguing with my basic premise, that America is in trouble. And why is that? Because the American churches generally, have abandoned the biblical precept of righteousness by faith, and are, in an increasingly serious degree, adopting politics in an attempt to make America righteous and acceptable to God. In the process of doing so, the American fallen church (fallen because they are in the process of committing spiritual adultery), will persecute other believers for worshiping different. Just like Cain murdered Abel over worship in the beginning, so will there be spiritual brothers at war over worship in the last days.
The remedy for this is to receive and make the righteousness of Christ your own, by receiving Christ, and allowing the righteousness of Christ to be expressed through keeping His commandments.
There will only be 2 disparate groups in the last days. Refer to Revelation 14:12 and Revelation 12:17 describing one group, those who keep the commandments of God and have the faith and testimony of Jesus... The other group don't. The other group are outside the walls. They don't get entrance into God's kingdom. They are disobedient,
KJV Revelation 22:14-15
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

"Sunday sacredness" is BAD

Is not Saturday sacredness BAD also?

MESSIAH said: Matthew 5:17
Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the Prophets. I have not come to abolish, but to fulfill.

Your thoughts............

Sunday sacredness isn't BAD per se, it is simply not sacred to the one true God. It is God who makes something sacred. It is up to man to keep it that way. Historically man has attempted to make Sunday sacred, first in his worship of the sun, today in his worship of God. But Jesus Himself said, in vain do they worship Me, keeping as doctrine the commandments of men.
What day is sacred?
KJV Genesis 2:2-3
2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Nowhere in scripture is it ever suggested that God has reversed that blessing, that sacredness, that holiness, from the 7th day. As you quoted, not one tittle has passed from the law. Not all is fulfilled. Certainly not the number of those saved. Do not those presently lost need the law by which to convict them of sin? Even Christians need to be reminded of the nature and extent of sin. And the law does that. Some claim to be convicted by the holy Spirit regarding sin. But the spirit can be a counterfeit. The law can't be changed. One cannot be deceived when he reads the ten commandments. And whether a Jewish person or a Christian person or a Muslim or a pagan dishonors or ignores the Sabbath, the 7th day remains sacred.
Throughout the OT God defined, elaborated on, stressed, and made bold through His servants the prophets, the sacredness of His day. And commanded, reminded, cried aloud and pleased for His people to honour that day, in order to please Him and receive the blessings that come from obedience and faithfulness. God did this for 1000s of years. And along come Christians who in their arrogance and rebelliousness, demand and expect that God must repeat Himself in the NT. Well, He did. But those who don't want to obey the truth will never see it.

 

[ewq1938]

After all the to-ing and fro-ing, it is at least good to know that no-one is arguing with my basic premise, that America is in trouble. And why is that? Because the American churches generally, have abandoned the biblical precept of righteousness by faith, and are, in an increasingly serious degree, adopting politics in an attempt to make America righteous and acceptable to God.

That's a problem in all churches in all countries around the world. (including yours)

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Saturday is not even mentioned by me here as in the New Covenant.

And... Saturday observance is not mentioned anywhere in the New Covenant.

 

[BarneyFife]

All you are doing is trying to misrepresent what the Greek text shows

A convenient observation to make, I'm sure, since you can't show evidence contrary to what I posted.

The fact is the Greek root word for "Sabbath" means to cease, and the various forms can mean several different things. But I showed that the very word, exactly as it is specified in Colossians 2:16, is also used in Acts 20:7 to express the span of an entire week, secondary to the stipulation of the first day, which we call Sunday. You show the alternate definition in your own post:

KJV - sabbath (day), week.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006, 2010 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

Therefore it cannot be rightly pigeonholed to mean the weekly Sabbath in Colossians 2:16, as you have so adamantly insisted. But you will not answer this fact, because it cuts across the popular desperation to impeach the Sabbath of the 4th commandment.

Rather than answer the refutations that are made of the weak Scriptural, anti-Judaic, and pseudo-logical objections to the literal reading of and compliance with the 4th commandment, all manner of diversions and distractions are brought to bear. This has always been the case and, no doubt, will continue as long as man is set in his heart to do evil against the LORD, as Solomon prophesied.


.

 

[BarneyFife]

And... Saturday observance is not mentioned anywhere in the New Covenant.

Sure it is—just not according to your special orders to the Sovereign of the universe.

.

 

[Davy]

A convenient observation to make, I'm sure, since you can't show evidence contrary to what I posted.

I did show the actual meaning of the Greek word 'sabbaton' in Colossians 2:16 by Apostle Paul, you simply REJECT THAT SCRIPTURE.


Col 2:16
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath (NT:4521) days:
KJV

NT:4521
sabbaton (sab'-bat-on); of Hebrew origin [OT:7676]; the Sabbath (i.e. Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension, a se'nnight, i.e. the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications:
KJV - sabbath (day), week.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006, 2010 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

 

[David in NJ]

And... Saturday observance is not mentioned anywhere in the New Covenant.

It absolutely is = Matthew 5:17
“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill."

If Christ did not Fulfill Exodus 31:12-17 then HE died in sin and all is in vain.

Now find in the Gospel where MESSIAH fulfilled this and SAID so!

Notice i am not saying you must observe the Saturday sabbath or die - pay careful attention!

 

[David in NJ]

A convenient observation to make, I'm sure, since you can't show evidence contrary to what I posted.

The fact is the Greek root word for "Sabbath" means to cease, and the various forms can mean several different things. But I showed that the very word, exactly as it is specified in Colossians 2:16, is also used in Acts 20:7 to express the span of an entire week, secondary to the stipulation of the first day, which we call Sunday. You show the alternate definition in your own post:



Therefore it cannot be rightly pigeonholed to mean the weekly Sabbath in Colossians 2:16, as you have so adamantly insisted. But you will not answer this fact, because it cuts across the popular desperation to impeach the Sabbath of the 4th commandment.

Rather than answer the refutations that are made of the weak Scriptural, anti-Judaic, and pseudo-logical objections to the literal reading of and compliance with the 4th commandment, all manner of diversions and distractions are brought to bear. This has always been the case and, no doubt, will continue as long as man is set in his heart to do evil against the LORD, as Solomon prophesied.


.

What if the LORD Jesus Christ Himself 'impeached' the Saturday sabbath by Promotion?

 

[David in NJ]

And... Saturday observance is not mentioned anywhere in the New Covenant.

CORRECT

Rexamine Post 437 and find in the Gospel MESSIAH'S Declaration of Sabbath Rest Fulfillment = choose Life or Death

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

CORRECT

Rexamine Post 437 and find in the Gospel MESSIAH'S Declaration of Sabbath Rest Fulfillment = choose Life or Death

Jesus and His Apostles NEVER taught Saturday sabbath as the SDA claims

The sabbath under the New Covenant is not what it was under the old covenant.

It absolutely is = Matthew 5:17
“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill."

Saturday sabbath is not mentioned here... try again homie.

Notice i am not saying you must observe the Saturday sabbath or die - pay careful attention!

You fail to speak clearly and say exactly what it is you are trying to say... which smells like deception.

Come right out and explain the sabbath as it is under the New Covenant... which will not be in agreement with the SDA peoples if you are actually going by what scripture says in the New Covenant.

That is if you are capable of doing so.