Here is why, as an Adventist, I believe America is in Trouble.

[BarneyFife]

Futurism is the basis of prophecy

No, prophecy is simply history foretold.

so speaking against it is wrong

The cry of free speech and, thus, Everlasting Gospel cancelers everywhere


.

 

[BarneyFife]

You are the one who accepts what the RCC teaches about the mark and Preterism/Historicism

This line of rebuttal is absurd. Recognizing and acknowledging the wrongs the RCC heirarchy boldly admits and confesses is not the same as "accepting their teachings."

Surely this is a reasonable assessment of the situation. It could be illustrated a hundred ways quite handily.

I acknowledge that Hitler proposed and attempted to implement a National Socialist "Thousand-Year Reich," but I reject the teaching and practice of such a thing, don't you?


.

 

[David in NJ]

The theocracy was rejected when the people asked Samuel to give them a king so they could be like the other nations. It's a commonly held, Biblically accurate position.

Good Morning,

If that were true God would not of given the kingdom to David.
God simply could of reverted back to the time of judges ruling over Israel.

Furthermore God promised this: "For thus says the Lord: ‘David shall never lack a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel;"

 

[David in NJ]

All you've demonstrated above is that you have a vivid imagination. I see no evidence of any of the above in scripture, and it hasn't gone by unnoticed that you didn't use scripture as the basis for your ideas.
Allow me please to fill you in on a little history. You may confirm what I'm telling you quite really from the Vatican archives and other historical sources.
At the height of the reformation, the Catholic church convened an urgent church council in order to find ways to justify their own teachings in light of the flood of people converting to the faith of the Bible. Somehow Rome had to justify tradition, and find a way to rebuke the reformers and prove the scripture alone is a false doctrine, thus stemming the leaks in the Catholic doctrinal dam.
This council was held in Trent. Maye you've heard of it.
The upshot is that after much ruminating and discussion and debate, nothing could be found over many years until one bishop realised that the entire Protestant world were hypocrites because while teaching scripture alone, they didn't practise it because they kept a tradition of the Catholic church which is founded on no scripture, but merely Catholic tradition. Sunday sacredness. The Bishop was applauded, and everyone went home happy because they finally had an argument against scripture alone. Bishop Reggio of Milan I think. Don't quote me on that, memories a bit hazy as far as his name is concerned, but the he general details are correct. The council of Trent declared Sunday sacredness as an official Catholic tradition which was established with no biblical support whatsoever.

"Sunday sacredness" is BAD

Is not Saturday sacredness BAD also?

MESSIAH said: Matthew 5:17
Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the Prophets. I have not come to abolish, but to fulfill.

Your thoughts............

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

It is in the Gospel and the LORD said so = very clear!
MESSIAH said: “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill."

I've read and re-red your quote you posted where Jesus said ... "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill"

And Jesus is not saying "and thou slalt observeth Saturday sabbath or thou shalt burneth in helleth"

Got any other quotes that are actual calls to action?

I know there are no such calls to action by the Lord Himself or His teachings thru His Apostles... but this is be educational for you to search and see for yourself that there are no such calls to actions or instructions requiring Christians to observe Saturday sabbath which is nothing more then SDA per doctrine that they believe their salvation is based upon.

"IT IS THEREFORE THE DUTY OF THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH." -Hebrews 4:9 PESHITTA

Still no call to action saying "and thou slalt observeth Saturday sabbath or thou shalt burneth in helleth"

Let's read what it actually says...

Hebrews 4:3-11
For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. (speaking about the New Covenant that He later established)
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Nothing here about observing Saturday sabbath, no call to action for Saturday... instead we are to enter in to His REST by believing, living in faith ceasing from our works as in trying to earn our salvation by doing good works such as going to church only on Saturday

Observing Saturday sabbath... does not earn your salvation!

We're commanded to work the first six days of the week. So, not only are you demanding God grant you "rest" while trampling on the Sabbath, you also want Him to grant you PTO hours for the rest of the week?

I never understand why people think they can bargain with God over the terms of their salvation when the only thing they can bring to the bargaining table is a lost soul.

You have no scripture that say one is required to observe Saturday sabbath in order to be saved.

 

[David in NJ]

@Big Boy Johnson says: "I've read and re-red your quote you posted where Jesus said ... "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill"

And Jesus is not saying "and thou slalt observeth Saturday sabbath or thou shalt burneth in helleth"

Got any other quotes that are actual calls to action?

I know there are no such calls to action by the Lord Himself or His teachings thru His Apostles... but this is be educational for you to search and see for yourself that there are no such calls to actions or instructions requiring Christians to observe Saturday sabbath which is nothing more then SDA per doctrine that they believe their salvation is based upon.




Still no call to action saying "and thou slalt observeth Saturday sabbath or thou shalt burneth in helleth"

Let's read what it actually says...

Hebrews 4:3-11
For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. (speaking about the New Covenant that He later established)
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Nothing here about observing Saturday sabbath, no call to action for Saturday... instead we are to enter in to His REST by believing, living in faith ceasing from our works as in trying to earn our salvation by doing good works such as going to church only on Saturday

Observing Saturday sabbath... does not earn your salvation! View attachment 41075






You have no scripture that say one is required to observe Saturday sabbath in order to be saved. View attachment 41074

I've read and re-red your quote you posted where Jesus said ... "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill"

And Jesus is not saying "and thou slalt observeth Saturday sabbath or thou shalt burneth in helleth"
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++===

Matthew 5:17 is not the scripture where the LORD said we must honor the Sabbath Rest or die.

Matthew 5:17 is the Foundation for the Truth of the Law that the LORD walked in on our behalf AND by which
The LORD directly restated Exodus 31:12-17 but under NEW COVENANT Terms.

And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 13“Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. 14You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. 15Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. 16Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. 17It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.’ ”

 

[Phoneman777]

No, they were wrong. They like many have confused a shadow or type of the beast for the actual beast.





Cool but the bible doesn't support that so go ahead and believe what your idea of the beast teaches you and keep thinking that is a great idea. What could go wrong?




Futurism is the basis of prophecy so speaking against it is wrong, and the opposite doctrine by any name is still another doctrine the RCC created, which some have swallowed whole. BTW, I am post trib.




lol, no. You are the one who accepts what the RCC teaches about the mark and Preterism/Historicism. You don't know what you are talking about. Go back and learn more from your beast and think it gives you special insight the bible never even speaks of.

The prophetic timeline has only one applicable interpretation: Protestant Historicism.

Babylon, MP, Greece, Rome, Papacy.

What's your timeline?

 

[Phoneman777]

Still no call to action saying "and thou slalt observeth Saturday sabbath or thou shalt burneth in helleth"

"Sin is the transgression of the law" and "the soul that sinneth, it shall die". Breaking the 4th commandment makes you a "sinner".

Let's read what it actually says...

I showed you what it actually says. The Peshitta does a better job with this verse than does the KJV, and if not for over 1,000 years of papal "Sunday sacredness", the KJV translators would have rendered it just as the Peshitta did.

Nothing here about observing Saturday sabbath, no call to action for Saturday.

Remember, verses 1 - 8 has "rest" translated from "kataposis" but verse 9 is "Sabbatismos" which SHOULD have been translated "Sabbath" instead of "rest". Lamsa did what the KJV translators were unable to do, due to over 1000 years of papal "Sunday sacredness".

Observing Saturday sabbath... does not earn your salvation! View attachment 41075

Of course, obedience doesn't earn salvation - it merely proves we've been saved.

Just like disobedience when we know better proves the absence of salvation.

You have no scripture that say one is required to observe Saturday sabbath in order to be saved. View attachment 41074

Of course, salvation isn't obtained by "observance" - it's by faith.

Keeping the commandments is merely outward evidence of our inward faith - and disobedience is the outward evidence of our inward decision to refuse "rest in Christ".

 

[David in NJ]

The prophetic timeline has only one applicable interpretation: Protestant Historicism.

Babylon, MP, Greece, Rome, Papacy.

What's your timeline?

God gave us the 'timeline' in Daniel.

The LORD Jesus confirmed that 'timeline'.

The Apostles also confirmed the 'timeline'.

Revelation enables us to SEE it actuated BEFORE it hits us.

 

[covenantee]

Futurism is the basis of prophecy so speaking against it is wrong, and the opposite doctrine by any name is still another doctrine the RCC created, which some have swallowed whole.

Historicism is the eschatology of the Protestant Reformers.

Futurism is the Jesuit spawn of the apostate papacy's counter-reformation.

You're the swallower.

 

[Phoneman777]

God simply could of reverted back to the time of judges ruling over Israel.

God could have granted them judges - and endured their ceaseless grumbling for being denied a king. But, He granted them their wish after warning them of what would happen as a lesson in why we ought not choose imperfect human rulers prone to injustice and exploitation over the perfect, equitable, just rule of the Lord.

 

[David in NJ]

God could have granted them judges - and endured their ceaseless grumbling for being denied a king. But, He granted them their wish after warning them of what would happen as a lesson in why we ought not choose imperfect human rulers prone to injustice and exploitation over the perfect, equitable, just rule of the Lord.

He granted them their 'desire' = Saul

1 Samuel 12: 12-13
And when you saw that Nahash king of the Ammonites came against you, you said to me, ‘No, but a king shall reign over us,’ when the Lord your God was your king.
“Now therefore, here is the king whom you have chosen and whom you have desired. And take note, the Lord has set a king over you.

This is where the STORY of GOD"S WILL Opens UP for us to SEE = 1 Samuel 16:1

Now the Lord said to Samuel, “How long will you mourn for Saul, seeing I have rejected him from reigning over Israel?
Fill your horn with oil, and go; I am sending you to Jesse the Bethlehemite.
For I have provided Myself a king among his sons.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Matthew 5:17 is the Foundation for the Truth of the Law that the LORD walked in on our behalf AND by which
The LORD directly restated Exodus 31:12-17 but under NEW COVENANT Terms.

That's your imagination running wild.... He said nothing about observing one day of the week as being holy and that day is Saturday

Jesus is responsible for the Truth of His Word being taught thru His Apostles and it's thru His teaching ministry thru His Apostles that we learn of the high standard brought forth in the New Covenant... the REST God's people follow not is not on any one day, Saturday or Sunday.

"Sin is the transgression of the law" and "the soul that sinneth, it shall die". Breaking the 4th commandment makes you a "sinner".

So your claim is that if one does not go to church on Saturday they are not in right standing with the Lord and on their way to hell?

Please show me in the New Testament warnings the let people know that not going to church on Saturday is a sin.

There's all kinds of warnings in the New Testament about what is sinful behavior... but you'll not find one scripture in the NT that says not going to church on Saturday is a sin.

I showed you what it actually says.

No, actually you pulled one scripture out of context and put yo eisegesis whammy on it to come up with your false claim... you put the SDA indoctrination on it

Remember, verses 1 - 8 has "rest" translated from "kataposis" but verse 9 is "Sabbatismos" which SHOULD have been translated "Sabbath" instead of "rest". Lamsa did what the KJV translators were unable to do, due to over 1000 years of papal "Sunday sacredness".

And yet... still nothing about Saturday sabbath, or Sunday either for that matter.

Of course, obedience doesn't earn salvation - it merely proves we've been saved.

Just like disobedience when we know better proves the absence of salvation.

So your claim is one must go to church on Saturday to "prove" they are saved!

Of course, salvation isn't obtained by "observance" - it's by faith.

Then the SDA position that "only those that go to church on Saturday are saved" is a moot point.

Glad we got this all cleared up!

Since you now acknowledge that one does not have to observe Saturday sabbath to be saved and these discussion are irrelevant and a waste of time.. the sabbath threads can all be closed down now. Thanks!

 

[David in NJ]

That's your imagination running wild.... He said nothing about observing one day of the week as being holy and that day is Saturday

Jesus is responsible for the Truth of His Word being taught thru His Apostles and it's thru His teaching ministry thru His Apostles that we learn of the high standard brought forth in the New Covenant... the REST God's people follow not is not on any one day, Saturday or Sunday.




So your claim is that if one does not go to church on Saturday they are not in right standing with the Lord and on their way to hell?

Please show me in the New Testament warnings the let people know that not going to church on Saturday is a sin.

There's all kinds of warnings in the New Testament about what is sinful behavior... but you'll not find one scripture in the NT that says not going to church on Saturday is a sin. View attachment 41089




No, actually you pulled one scripture out of context and put yo eisegesis whammy on it to come up with your false claim... you put the SDA indoctrination on it View attachment 41085






And yet... still nothing about Saturday sabbath, or Sunday either for that matter.






So your claim is one must go to church on Saturday to "prove" they are saved!View attachment 41086





Then the SDA position that "only those that go to church on Saturday are saved" is a moot point.

Glad we got this all cleared up! View attachment 41087

Since you now acknowledge that one does not have to observe Saturday sabbath to be saved and these discussion are irrelevant and a waste of time.. the sabbath threads can all be closed down now. Thanks! View attachment 41088

@Big Boy Johnson says: "Jesus is responsible for the Truth of His Word being taught thru His Apostles and it's thru His teaching ministry thru His Apostles that we learn of the high standard brought forth in the New Covenant... the REST God's people follow not is not on any one day, Saturday or Sunday."

This is CORRECT but only because the LORD fulfilled the Most Holy Commandment given in Genesis and Exodus ch31.

However, the Commandment to REST or DEATH is still in EFFECT as stated in Exodus ch31 but now is BINDING on ALL the world.

Where did the LORD Jesus Christ state this Declaration of REST or DEATH?

 

[David in NJ]

"Sin is the transgression of the law" and "the soul that sinneth, it shall die". Breaking the 4th commandment makes you a "sinner".

I showed you what it actually says. The Peshitta does a better job with this verse than does the KJV, and if not for over 1,000 years of papal "Sunday sacredness", the KJV translators would have rendered it just as the Peshitta did.

Remember, verses 1 - 8 has "rest" translated from "kataposis" but verse 9 is "Sabbatismos" which SHOULD have been translated "Sabbath" instead of "rest". Lamsa did what the KJV translators were unable to do, due to over 1000 years of papal "Sunday sacredness".

Of course, obedience doesn't earn salvation - it merely proves we've been saved.

Just like disobedience when we know better proves the absence of salvation.

Of course, salvation isn't obtained by "observance" - it's by faith.

Keeping the commandments is merely outward evidence of our inward faith - and disobedience is the outward evidence of our inward decision to refuse "rest in Christ".

@Phoneman777 @Big Boy Johnson @BarneyFife
Salvation is granted to us by faith and thru observance = you cannot have one without the other.

The question to you and all SDA's is - Observace of what?

 

[Phoneman777]

God gave us the 'timeline' in Daniel.

The LORD Jesus confirmed that 'timeline'.

The Apostlee also confirmed the 'timeline'.

Revelation enables us to SEE it actuated BEFORE it hits us.

Amen. There's no other way to interpret Daniel and Revelation except by Protestant Historicism. Unfortunately, Christians today prefer either Jesuit Preterism so that tribulation can be safely relocated to the past, or Jesuit "Left Behind" Futurism so Jesus can sneak into town and sneak out with the saints just before the "7 year tribulation".

It basically comes down to this: Protestant Historicism is rejected either for reasons of cowardice or sensationalism - they're either scared to death of a martyr's death, or the thrill of looking East for prophetic fulfillment simply can't be found looking West to Rome.

 

[David in NJ]

Amen. There's no other way to interpret Daniel and Revelation except by Protestant Historicism. Unfortunately, Christians today prefer either Jesuit Preterism so that tribulation can be safely relocated to the past, or Jesuit "Left Behind" Futurism so Jesus can sneak into town and sneak out with the saints just before the "7 year tribulation".

It basically comes down to this: Protestant Historicism is rejected either for reasons of cowardice or sensationalism - they're either scared to death of a martyr's death, or the thrill of looking East for prophetic fulfillment simply can't be found looking West to Rome.

Hey Brother = THANK YOU for this:
"Jesuit "Left Behind" Futurism so Jesus can sneak into town and sneak out with the saints just before the "7 year tribulation".

LOL x100
and i am not laughing at you at all but the very funny statement which has many people duped.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

However, the Commandment to REST or DEATH is still in EFFECT as stated in Exodus ch31 but now is BINDING on ALL the world.

Where did the LORD Jesus Christ state this Declaration of REST or DEATH?

The Lord does not instruct anybody to observe Saturday sabbath in the New Testament and He does not instruct Christians to go murder those who do not keep the Saturday sabbath either.

Are you going to go out and start shooting people that go to church on Sunday claiming the fake jesus you follow instructed you to kill people???... Are we going to hear about you on the news as the next mass murderer that shoots up a church... one that meets on Sunday of course, right?

Maybe you need to get back on your meds... is there someone we can call to help you?... Or should we just have law enforcement track down your ISP address and show up at your house and remove all weapons from your possession?

You are engaging in crazy talk so what are your real intentions?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Salvation is granted to us by faith and thru observance = you cannot have one without the other.

WHERE in the New Testament does God's Word say those that do not observe Saturday sabbath are... in sin???

Let's see what you pull out yo backside to answer that!

 

[David in NJ]

WHERE in the New Testament does God's Word say those that do not observe Saturday sabbath are... in sin??? View attachment 41107

Let's see what you pull out yo backside to answer that! View attachment 41108

Before i give you the LORD'S direct statement, i have this question for you and @Phoneman777, all SDA's and all who Believe.

Why did God say this:
Genesis 2:3 - And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
and this
Exodus ch31 -
And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 13“Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. 14You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. 15Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. 16Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. 17It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.’ ”