Here is why, as an Adventist, I believe America is in Trouble.

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Ziggy

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The Ten Commandments aren't a shadow of anything, neither is the Sabbath - a memorial pointing back to Creation, not a "shadow" pointing to anything forward - for it was created before sin when all was light.
This made me think about timing.

The only time of the day when there is no shadow is usually high noon, or, the heat of the day.
So you could say that in the heat of the sixth day, God created his own vine and fig tree in which to rest in.

So, Abram was sitting under a tent in the heat of the day when 3 men approached him heading to Sodom and Gomorrah.
Tent, tabernacle....
Apparently there had been a lot of noise coming from that direction and they were going to find out what it was all about.
It's hot out. So Abram says, look, come sit under this tree and let me wash your feet and get you some food before you go on with your journey.

I don't know what day of the week it was, But Abram was resting, in his place and was showing hospitality to the Lord and his friends.
Basically Abram was doing what God had told the children of Israel to do while they was in the wilderness.

Gen 18:1
And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
Gen 18:2
And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
Gen 18:3
And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:
Gen 18:4
Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:
Gen 18:5
And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.
Gen 18:6
And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth.
Gen 18:7
And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetcht a calf tender and good, and gave it unto a young man; and he hasted to dress it.
Gen 18:8
And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.

So while I'll admit that the Sabbath has always been established the day God created it.
It didn't become a burden or with consequence if someone didn't observe it according to Moses' law.
You wouldn't get stoned for picking up sticks to light a fire so you wouldn't starve to death, specially in the heat of the day.

Thinking about Jonah:

Jon 4:4
Then said the LORD, Doest thou well to be angry?
Jon 4:5
So Jonah went out of the city, and sat on the east side of the city, and there made him a booth, and sat under it in the shadow, till he might see what would become of the city.
Jon 4:6
And the LORD God prepared a gourd, and made it to come up over Jonah, that it might be a shadow over his head, to deliver him from his grief. So Jonah was exceeding glad of the gourd.
Jon 4:7
But God prepared a worm when the morning rose the next day, and it smote the gourd that it withered.
Jon 4:8
And it came to pass, when the sun did arise, that God prepared a vehement east wind; and the sun beat upon the head of Jonah, that he fainted, and wished in himself to die, and said, It is better for me to die than to live.
Jon 4:9
And God said to Jonah, Doest thou well to be angry for the gourd? And he said, I do well to be angry, even unto death.
Jon 4:10
Then said the LORD, Thou hast had pity on the gourd, for the which thou hast not laboured, neither madest it grow; which came up in a night, and perished in a night:
Jon 4:11
And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?

There so much to unpack in that book.

Isa 4:6
And there shall be a tabernacle for a shadow in the daytime from the heat, and for a place of refuge, and for a covert from storm and from rain.

Gen 8:22
While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.
2Pe 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Gal 4:1
Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
Gal 4:2
But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.
Gal 4:3
Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
Gal 4:4
But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
Gal 4:5
To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Gal 4:6
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Gal 4:7
Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
Gal 4:8
Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
Gal 4:9
But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
Gal 4:10
Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
Gal 4:11
I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

God gave man the Sabbath to rest in with him. So when the evil days come we have a place of refuge. Or when the days of famine come, we have a place of refreshing, a place where when we are angry we can cool off, or if we are sad, to find joy.

It's not about a day, it's a place God created for us to sit under his vine and his fig tree and find peace.

I don't know everything that transpired on the sixth day God created man. I'm thinking God had a lot to consider before he created them, and knowing what troubles we would go through, the seasons of cold and bitterness, heat and anger, the days of spring and fall with joyfulness and frolicking.
The seeds that would flourish and the weeds that would take root.
But at the end of the day God said It is good.
And took a journey to a far country to find peace in the day that he created to have it. And to sit under his vine and fig tree, to be refreshed and consoled and to enjoy the works of his hands.

This Day God created that he calls His Sabbath Day, God calls his Son and we call him Jesus.

While Jesus walked the earth, God was resting from his works, and the Son came to finish the work his Father had begun.
And we are to finish the works that Jesus created in us. To walk perfect before our God.
And we find our peace, our rest, our refreshing, our solace, our everything in Him.

Now if your still walking according to the law, you need to understand that you have graduated from school.
You've aquired the skills that the Spirit has supplied you with, charity, hospitality. kindness, goodness..
And now you have to put them to the test.
You have to learn how to turn the other cheek, learn to forgive, learn compassion and empathy.
And to put them into action, not just book knowledge, it's hands on training from here on in.

And don't go out into the world without the full armor of God.
Your going to need it to sustain you. Because we're in the middle of spiritual warfare.
And remember there is no armor for your back, because The Lord has your back. And he also goes before you in every battle.

And after you have conquered your fears, your temptations, your challenges, there is always a place to find rest and peace.
For he is with you.. ALWAYS.
Trust God.
Keep the faith.
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BarneyFife

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@BarneyFife and @Brakelite
i love you guys and believe that you also love the LORD.

These comments by @Phoneman777 tell me ALL i need to know about SDA and the spiritual bondage that they are bound in.

@Phoneman777 - The Ten Commandments aren't a shadow of anything, neither is the Sabbath - a memorial pointing back to Creation, not a "shadow" pointing to anything forward - for it was created before sin when all was light.

@Phoneman777 - Nobody thinks they're justified by obedience because obedience is the outward evidence for inward salvation, while the disobedience you preach is the outward evidence of no inward salvation and those who disobey impenitently will split hell wide open, and the universe will be rid of them and their father the devil
These two comments above from @Phoneman777 are antichrist and never came from the Mouth of God.

Dave, you're all over the place and I nearly always feel like I'm talking to someone speaking a language I barely even recognize when we have these discussions.

You do this "antichrist" business quite frequently. You've done it to me several times and, although the 2nd quote from @Phoneman777 is worded a little more strongly than I normally would choose to express it and is something I might save for a special occasion, I'm basically in agreement with everything he says in what you've quoted from him.

Now, keep in mind that "outward evidence of no inward salvation" doesn't qualify as a true judgment because we're only able to look on the outward appearance but the LORD looks on the heart.

But the way you've separated me from Phoneman here is mistaken, at best.

I've made comments before that you've readily characterized as antichrist and I'm in basic agreement with him.

And even if you seriously took into account everything @Phoneman777, @Brakelite, and I have said over the years and came to some kind of conclusion regarding the whole, you'd still be in no position to make a clear and honest judgment about what the Seventh-day Adventist church teaches unless you got it from
the most accurate source available (link).

.
 
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David in NJ

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Dave, you're all over the place and I nearly always feel like I'm talking to someone speaking a language I barely even recognize when we have these discussions.

You do this "antichrist" business quite frequently. You've done it to me several times and, although the 2nd quote from @Phoneman777 is worded a little more strongly than I normally would choose to express it and is something I might save for a special occasion, I'm basically in agreement with everything he says in what you've quoted from him.

Now, keep in mind that "outward evidence of no inward salvation" doesn't qualify as a true judgment because we're only able to look on the outward appearance but the LORD looks on the heart.

But the way you've separated me from Phoneman here is mistaken, at best.

I've made comments before that you've readily characterized as antichrist and I'm in basic agreement with him.

And even if you seriously took into account everything @Phoneman777, @Brakelite, and I have said over the years and came to some kind of conclusion regarding the whole, you'd still be in no position to make a clear and honest judgment about what the Seventh-day Adventist church teaches unless you got it from
the most accurate source available (link).

.

God has already made His Judgment call upon every denomination.

Anyone who directly opposes the Word of Truth as was done by Phoneman is 'antichrist' as he did it to prop up his idol.
Making saturday a idol unto yourselves is no different then the RCC with it's own idols on sunday.

For this is he who was spoken of by the prophet Isaiah when he said, “The voice of one crying in the wilderness:
‘Prepare the way of the Lord; make his paths straight.’”

“Enter by the narrow gate.
For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.

Saturday is NOT the narrow gait by which a person can enter into LIFE - the LORD of the Sabbath is.

The children of Israel were healed from snake bite when God told Moses to make the Brazen Serpent on a Pole.
Anyone who looked upon this Brazen Image was healed of their snake bites.

Then they turned this one-time healing and the Brazen Serpent into a 'idol' and began worshipping it.

SDA has done the same with saturday and they are deceived by it.

Worship the the LORD of the Sabbath, the One who died on the Pole/Cross = for only HE can give you REST.
Denying His Word is not rest and making saturday your go-to holiness is not rest but it is idolatry.
 
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Phoneman777

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@BarneyFife and @Brakelite
i love you guys and believe that you also love the LORD.

These comments by @Phoneman777 tell me ALL i need to know about SDA and the spiritual bondage that they are bound in.
The truth I preach sets us free from spiritual bondage.
The OSAS License to Sin is pocketed by the spiritually bound who try to cling to both Jesus and sin.
These two comments above from @Phoneman777 are antichrist and never came from the Mouth of God.
Genesis says God made the Sabbath because he rested from six days creation! What Bible are you reading, friend?
Follow the LORD Jesus who said: "Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the Mouth of God"
...which says "Blessed are they which do His commandments, that they may have right to the Tree of Life".
Hebrews 8:1-6
Now this is the main point of the things we are saying: We have such a High Priest
Only for the saints who "make a covenant with Me by sacrifice" and "take up their cross daily and follow Me". He's no High Priest for the OSAS License to Sin crowd who refuse to take up their cross.
Colossians 2:16-19
So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths,
which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.
Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.
The word "sabbaths" in Colossians 2 is not referring to the weekly Sabbath - but the yearly Jewish sabbaths, as any honest scholar will admit - those "sabbaths" are what was nailed to the Cross, along with anything else of a ceremonial, sacrificial shadow nature.

Brakelite, BarneyFife, and any other conservative SDA will agree with everything in this post, so are we all now the "antichrist"? :p
 

Phoneman777

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Dave, you're all over the place and I nearly always feel like I'm talking to someone speaking a language I barely even recognize when we have these discussions.

You do this "antichrist" business quite frequently. You've done it to me several times and, although the 2nd quote from @Phoneman777 is worded a little more strongly than I normally would choose to express it and is something I might save for a special occasion, I'm basically in agreement with everything he says in what you've quoted from him.

Now, keep in mind that "outward evidence of no inward salvation" doesn't qualify as a true judgment because we're only able to look on the outward appearance but the LORD looks on the heart.

But the way you've separated me from Phoneman here is mistaken, at best.

I've made comments before that you've readily characterized as antichrist and I'm in basic agreement with him.

And even if you seriously took into account everything @Phoneman777, @Brakelite, and I have said over the years and came to some kind of conclusion regarding the whole, you'd still be in no position to make a clear and honest judgment about what the Seventh-day Adventist church teaches unless you got it from
the most accurate source available (link).
I always remind people that 1 John 2:3-4 KJV indeed says our outward actions demonstrate our inward spiritual condition - not for the purposes of condemning anyone - but to answer the false charge of "legalism" by those who don't understand why obedience is integral to salvation: that obedience is not the means by which we obtain salvation, but the outward evidence that inward salvation has been obtained.

The problem is not this truth, but the unconverted and/or spiritually immature ears in which this truth enters.
 

Phoneman777

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Heb 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Paul says faith ("substance & evidence") in God is the means by which we're saved - not by works.

James says true faith - "living faith" - is demonstrated by keeping the Law of Liberty - Ten Commandments.

John says living faith is demonstrated by obedience, and those who claim living faith but don't obey are liars.

Can you see how James, John, and Paul are on the same page ? If no, then why not?
 

BarneyFife

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God has already made His Judgment call upon every denomination.
.
God has His seven thousand in every church and denomination and He has a remnant organization in which He is currently doing His highly-organized, finishing work. The non-denominationalism that has turned into anti-denominationalism is not of God.

Anyone who directly opposes the Word of Truth as was done by Phoneman is 'antichrist' as he did it to prop up his idol.
Making saturday a idol unto yourselves is no different then the RCC with it's own idols on sunday.

The "Word of Truth," as you call it is simply a term you use for your extremely confusing Scriptural relativism that you impose on everyone like some totalitarian guru, as you bark orders at people to pay close attention to you.

And "antichrist" comes from a Greek word that means to put oneself in the place of Christ—not idolatry.

The Sabbath truth only seems like an idol to you because you see yourself as fully Christian and yet you have so much contempt for it.
It's simply the 4th article of the divine moral code for mankind—no more; no less.

The only reason it takes center stage in Christian discussions that include Sabbatarians is because it is the only one that begins with the word "Remember" while also (
by no means coincidentally) being the only one that nearly every Christian has forgotten.


For this is he who was spoken of by the prophet Isaiah when he said, “The voice of one crying in the wilderness:
‘Prepare the way of the Lord; make his paths straight.’”

“Enter by the narrow gate.
For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many.

Here's a great example of your weird pairing of Scriptures that have nothing to do with each other. One is about John preparing the way for Christ's public ministry; the other is about Christ expressing the difficulty of living righteously in a wicked world.

You play word games with Scripture that often cross over into word salad territory. It makes sense only to you, Dave. The meanings of even the original words for "straight" and "narrow" don't even have the same meaning. So, in the absence of sound Biblical arguments, you constantly resort to this kind of chicanery.


Saturday is NOT the narrow gait by which a person can enter into LIFE - the LORD of the Sabbath is.

It's a good thing, I guess, that virtually no Sabbatarian claims such a thing, then, isn't it, Dave?

The children of Israel were healed from snake bite when God told Moses to make the Brazen Serpent on a Pole.
Anyone who looked upon this Brazen Image was healed of their snake bites.

Then they turned this one-time healing and the Brazen Serpent into a 'idol' and began worshipping it.

SDA has done the same with saturday and they are deceived by it.

Idols are what people look to to worship and save them. We don't do that, Dave, and you can't prove otherwise as much as you seem eager to do so, despite saying that we love the LORD and that we're your brothers.

Worship the the LORD of the Sabbath, the One who died on the Pole/Cross = for only HE can give you REST.

I'm sure He could and would give us Sabbath rest 7 days a week somehow if that were His plan, but it isn't because He wants us to enjoy the fruit of our own innocent, weekly labors, just as we enjoy the fruit of His 24/7/365 labor.

Denying His Word is not rest

It sure isn't. It looks exhausting to me.

and making saturday your go-to holiness is not rest but it is idolatry.

And it's a good thing we're taught never to do such a thing.

Well, you've built quite a straw man here. But that's what results from allowing oneself to get so frustrated by arguing against sound Biblical teaching. I'll be lucky if you respond coherently to even one point that I've made here. Let's see.

The Sabbath is just 1/10 of what God requires, behaviorally speaking, from His people. And because you want so badly to avoid it, you've worked yourself up into quite a tizzy and ended up calling one of God's simple requirements an idol.

Brutal stuff

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David in NJ

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YES!!! IT'S THE "WASHED IN THE SABBATH'S BLOOD" STRAW MAN ARGUMENT COMING IN FOR THE BIG WIN!!!
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Another antichrist statement.

Anyone who would slander the Precious Blood of the LORD of the Sabbath does not know God's Sabbath REST.
 

Phoneman777

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YES it does and the 7th DAY Sabbath of God is the Gospel = JESUS the MESSIAH
When you step into the shadow of a tree and follow it, you eventually bump you head on the tree and have no more need of the shadow.

When you step into Jewish Passover, meat offerings, drink offerings, etc., you eventually bump into Christ the Lamb and High Priest and have no more need of the Mosaic Law.

If the Sabbath was created before darkness and shadows entered the world and will be observed for all eternity in New Jerusalem, how can it be a "shadow" of anything?
SAD religion worships a day of the week as a higher priority then obeying/following CHRIST.
Antinomians are idolaters who exalt human wisdom above the Word of God - "wisdom" which somehow leads to the conclusion that Christians can forget the only commandment that begins with "remember".
You are just like the young ruler who chose the law over Salvation.
No, he went away rejecting law - specifically "thou shalt not covet" - because he had great substance.
You are also just like jws who corrupt scripture for their pleasure.
What Scripture have I corrupted?

God made the 7th day Sabbath as a memorial to Creation, later made it a sign between Him and the redeemed, and says it will last for all eternity.

It's Antinomians who corrupt it...because while you're cool with the other nine, you somehow conclude that we're supposed to forget the only commandment that begins with the word "Remember".
 

Phoneman777

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Another antichrist statement.

Anyone who would slander the Precious Blood of the LORD of the Sabbath does not know God's Sabbath REST.
Dave, those angry feelings you're experiencing due to your inability to answer our Biblically sound arguments are called "Holy Spirit conviction" which often ruffles our carnal feathers when we fall under it. God understands that, which is why He's so patient.

A true child of God will repent and place his will on the side of God's will...the hypocrite that loves being clothed in the dignity of the church but whose heart is far from Christ resists the Holy Spirit.

You'll either end up choosing the Remnant church "Seal of God" or the papal "Mark of the Beast", so choose wisely, friend.
 

David in NJ

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Of course, it is!

You took this post from me to Big Troll personally, didn't you?

How can you not see that claiming Adventists believe they are saved by keeping the 4th commandment is about as egregious a straw man argument as you could hope to run into, Dave?

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@Phoneman777 - The Ten Commandments aren't a shadow of anything, neither is the Sabbath - a memorial pointing back to Creation, not a "shadow" pointing to anything forward - for it was created before sin when all was light.

@Phoneman777 - Nobody thinks they're justified by obedience because obedience is the outward evidence for inward salvation, while the disobedience you preach is the outward evidence of no inward salvation and those who disobey impenitently will split hell wide open, and the universe will be rid of them and their father the devil

Anyone who holds to these statements above is blind and cannot see who CHRIST truly is.

SDA teaching that saturday sabbath keeping is 'DO or DIE' is antichrist as it violates the very Core TRUTH in the 4th commandment Exodus 31:12-17 = NO work is to be done on God's FININSHED Work.

SDA = old covenant law + Christ = salvation = which is antichrist and the SAME as RCC
 
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BarneyFife

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Anyone who holds to these statements above is blind and cannot see who CHRIST truly is.

SDA teaching that saturday sabbath keeping is 'DO or DIE' is antichrist as it violates the very Core TRUTH in the 4th commandment Exodus 31:12-17 = NO work is to be done on God's FININSHED Work.

SDA = old covenant law + Christ = salvation = which is antichrist and the SAME as RCC
.
You should straighten your Mitre when you say that.

If this is your final word since suddenly becoming a graduate from the Big Troll Johnson School Of Expertise On Seventh-day Adventism (
which seems awfully likely since you're doing the same "which is;" "which is" stuff he does), then I guess we won't be hearing any more from you. That's sad, Dave.

Boy, we've come a long way in a hurry from being "brothers," haven't we?

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David in NJ

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You should straighten your Mitre when you say that.

If this is your final word since suddenly becoming a graduate from the Big Troll Johnson School Of Expertise On Seventh-day Adventism (
which seems awfully likely since you're doing the same "which is;" "which is" stuff he does), then I guess we won't be hearing any more from you. That's sad, Dave.

Boy, we've come a long way in a hurry from being "brothers," haven't we?

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Romans 3:20
Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. -
Romans 10:4

#1 “If you love Me, keep My commandments." = JESUS never commanded the saturday sabbath

#2 The Apostles never commanded nor instructed anyone to keep the saturday sabbath under the law.

#3 the LORD Jesus Christ CLEARLY stated and commanded that only HE is the REST of GOD

#4 The Book of Hebrews CLEARY states that the GOSPEL is the Sabbath Rest of God.

4 commandments against SDA = God has spoken from His Word of REST as HE gave His BEST

There is no judgment upon the day of the week because the LORD Jesus Christ is our REST

There will be judgment for those who seek to add the 'old wine' to the precious Blood of New Covenant

"by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin."
Saturday is NOT the narrow gait by which a person can enter into LIFE - the LORD of the Sabbath is.
 
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Phoneman777

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Anyone who holds to these statements above is blind and cannot see who CHRIST truly is.

SDA teaching that saturday sabbath keeping is 'DO or DIE' is antichrist as it violates the very Core TRUTH in the 4th commandment Exodus 31:12-17 = NO work is to be done on God's FININSHED Work.
SDAs don't teach that.
SDA = old covenant law + Christ = salvation = which is antichrist and the SAME as RCC
SDAs don't teach that.

Why do you teach those who love Jesus can break His commandments, the exact opposite of John 14:15?