Here is what it all comes down to—- and you’d better get it right!

[marks]

We live in a fallen world... filled with temptations all around us.... We experience different challenges in our lives... sometimes our faith is strong... and sometimes it's like mush when we are hurting.

God is aware of all this... always gathering... calling... seeking... waiting patiently for us to simply come to HIM.

Sin falls off us as a result of our LOVE and DEVOTION to CHRIST.... legalism teaches it backwards.... PROVING self-worth by trying to do good and be good is the WRONG motivation... Sadly... many Christians ascribe to this very bad doctrine.

Very well said!!

Much love!

 

[marks]

Let me adjust your analogy a little to keep it in line with John's teaching. When a woman's baby does not grow up looking like her husband, it probably doesn't belong to her husband! And so it is with us.

That's human reasoning, though. Based on human observation.

The point @Addy was making was that the appearance doesn't change the biology. If it's her baby, it's always her baby. It never stops being her baby.

Much love!

 

[marks]

If we aren't growing up into the image of God,

What is shows is where you are in the process. IF you are born again. But only if. And that is not determined by you behavior.

Much love!

 

[marks]

You can check it out for yourself easily enough. The mood of the verb "may be saved" in 1 Corinthians 5:5 is subjunctive, which means the action described 'may or may not happen'. It is the mood of uncertainty.

I'm showing aorist passive on this one. It's to be done to the man.




Much love!

 

[marks]

If I go to the bar, pick up a woman and spend the night with her, spending the night with her is the fruit of sin that first took root in my heart. Focusing on externals will only turn one into a white-washed tomb. Clean on the outside but full of defilement.
This is what Jesus was referring to when He said, "Clean the inside of the cup and the outside will be clean."

So true! That to me is underneath all this discussion. People often don't even realize when they've slipped out of the Spirit, and into the flesh. And they go and think fleshy thoughts, and judge others' fleshy deeds.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Having a revelation of one's own heart is a humbling experience. Which is a good thing.

This also, imo, is key to understanding.

Much love!

 

[marks]

For some reason the church can not see what distinguishes the saved sinning person from the unsaved sinning person. The difference is the unsaved person lives in his sin as a matter of unrepentant disobedience, just like the saved person did before they were saved. John said this is how you can tell a born again person from a not born again person. It's a matter of mindset.

Mindset. Yes, that's right. And you cannot see someone's mind. Or heart. Call it what you will.

John did not give this passage as a formula for you to judge others.

You don't see that, and so your judgments are based on what you do see, and they are not true.

How was it that John DID say you would know? That they leave.

Much love!

 

[marks]

This logic fails in the church because many Christians ignore the fact that the dirty cup signifies that it's also dirty inside, and so they rationalize having a dirty cup all the time. They need to realize that, ultimately, a dirty cup indicates it's dirty, both, on the inside and the outside. This is the point they miss in the analogy. They miss it to their own destruction.

What looks dirty to you, well, God sees the heart, you do not. Alas . . . I repeat myself.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Getting clean inside is a process, at least it has been for me.

It is for everyone. Lifelong.

I've observed that victory over sin is accompanied by humility which can be seen.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Yes we can clearly see by the fruit if a person is living a peace and joy filled life...

Or that they have a sanguine/phlegmatic temperment type.

That's why we're not to judge by appearances. Am I patient because I'm walking in the Spirit, or because I was born with low adrenaline output?

Much love!

 

[marks]

I am better than the drunk down the street.

So in what way are you better? Do you mean, 'better behaved'?

Surely you must mean, "Better off"?

Much love!

 

[Addy]

So in what way are you better? Do you mean, 'better behaved'?

Surely you must mean, "Better off"?

Pretty sure he clearly said... BETTER THAN.... but that is just a guess... LOL

 

[marks]

the inspecting of fruit is indeed for our own protection...

And that in regard to teachers and prophets. People make themselves "fruit inspectors" of others, because they want power over them.

Much love!

 

[Michiah-Imla]

If you want to overcome sin by effort and determination, I want to overcome sin by being close to God.

"Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof." (Romans 6:12)

To not allow sin to reign in your mortal body requires YOUR effort.

Your closeness to God is abominable to the Lord if you do so while sinning. He’d rather be away from you.

"But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear." (Isaiah 59:2)

 

[marks]

That's disgusting!

Yes, I thought so also. What place that has here, I can't imagine!

Much love!

 

[marks]

The thing is not to make a law out of these things, a list of does and don'ts.

People seem to do that a lot! The Sermon on the Mount, Portions of the Law and Prophets, the descriptions of the redeemed.

"Christians love others, so YOU'D BETTER BE LOVING OTHERS!!!!!

OR else!!

Much love!

 

[marks]

That's a circular argument because that person is not saved in the first place based on scriptural requirement so you have a non argument to begin with.

A Tautology. The unsaved are not saved.

Much love!

 

[marks]

No, it does not and only an English translation could so what verse is this term in?

What Greek or Hebrew term equals backsliding?

You are making up non sequitur legalistic arguments that contradict themselves and implode on their own lack of support as you go along

Backsliding in the Bible refers to Israel in their covenant of Law, but is not used in regards to our reconciliation to God.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Ye shall know them by their fruits .

This is said regarding teachers and prophets.

This idea of "inspecting other's fruits" to see if they are Christians in not taught in the Bible.

Much love!

 

[marks]

If the inner man is changed , the heart , the inside , the actions are made manifest . Ye shall know them by their fruits .
Let the KING be praised .

But this takes time in many cases. Judgment comes prematurely. We are not the judge.

Much love!