Hellfire and brimstone has given way to eternal separation from God. - Why?

[Johann]

You are correct. I don't rely on scripture. I rely on the Spirit Who God sent. And I'm not ashamed to admit this.

A man enters an “Argument Clinic”:

Man: Is this the right room for an argument?

Other Man: I’ve told you once.

Man: No you haven’t!

Other Man: Yes I have.

M: When?

O: Just now.

M: No you didn’t!

O: Yes I did!

M: You didn’t!

O: I did!

M: You didn’t!

O: I’m telling you, I did!

M: You did not!

O: Oh I’m sorry, is this a five-minute argument, or the full half hour?

M: Ah! (taking out his wallet and paying) Just the five minutes.

O: Just the five minutes. Thank you. Anyway, I did.

M: You most certainly did not!

O: Now let’s get one thing quite clear: I most definitely told you!

M: Oh no you didn’t!

O: Oh yes I did!

M: Oh no you didn’t!

O: Oh yes I did!

M: Oh no you didn’t!

O: Oh yes I did!

M: Oh no you didn’t!

O: Oh yes I did!

M: Oh no you didn’t!

O: Oh yes I did!

And for several minutes, the sketch goes on like that. A classic.

Unfortunately, this ping-pong approach to arguments is fairly common, which is why the above sketch was so funny. For every intelligent, informed debate on important issues affecting the world today are thousands or millions of Monty Python argument-clinic sketches.

Many Christian writers desire to write to those who are not Christ-followers and craft a reasonable, logical presentation of the hope, which is in them. But the nonbelieving world will likely respond with a confident “No, it’s not” to each truthful assertion about the Bible and God.

And to be blunt, simply being contrary is all they’ve got. It’s their only defense mechanism.

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles (Romans 1:18-23, NIV).

It seems somewhat logical: Writing in spiritual generalities or a non offensive manner would be the best way to write to “Bible Deniers,” but reality reveals just the opposite.

The Christian books that have been used most effectively in drawing interest from the unbelieving world left little doubt about the author’s perspective, their source of wisdom, and who receives praise for salvation.

So, you want to write to Bible Deniers? Write well, make your perspective clear, rely heavily on Scripture, and let the Holy Spirit do the work of opening the heart of the unbeliever. It’s that simple.

Writing to Bible Deniers -

My guess a sketch from Monty Python’s Flying Circus from 50 years ago is unexpected for this space today. A man enters an “Argument Clinic”: Man: Is this the right room for an argument? Other Man: I’ve told you once. Man: No you haven’t! Other Man: Yes I have. M: When? O: Just now. M: No you...

stevelaube.com

Same to you, leave this ping-pong game, stop tagging me and get yourself immersed in Scripture!

J.

 

[Lizbeth]

How do you know what the Spirit of Truth reveals to me goes against what is written (by others who are carried along by the same Spirit)?

How do you know whether it does or doesn't go against the written scriptures, except that you read and know them well? We are told to test the spirits and test all things. Like the Bereans who were commended for searching the scriptures to see if something is so, or not so.

I agree we are to have a living relationship with the Living God, but scripture is given for our edification and that we might know whether anything we hear/see agrees with or contradicts what God has had written down.

That you were making the bible an idol doesn't mean you had to throw the baby out with the bathwater. You can cultivate a relationship with the Lord without having to stop reading scripture. For me it is part of my relationship with the Lord as I read scripture prayerfully, who often speaks a living word to me through scripture, as well as speaking to me in various other ways. His word is alive and active!

 

[Johann]

How do you know whether it does or doesn't go against the written scriptures, except that you read and know them well? We are told to test the spirits and test all things. Like the Bereans who were commended for searching the scriptures to see if something is so, or not so.

I agree we are to have a living relationship with the Living God, but scripture is given for our edification and that we might know whether anything we hear/see agrees with or contradicts what God has had written down.

That you were making the bible an idol doesn't mean you had to throw the baby out with the bathwater. You can cultivate a relationship with the Lord without having to stop reading scripture. For me it is part of my relationship with the Lord as I read scripture prayerfully, who often speaks a living word to me through scripture, as well as speaking to me in various other ways. His word is alive and active!

x1000-!!

--and sharper than a two-edged sword!

Thanks for watching my back @Lizbeth--

Shalom.

J.

 

[St. SteVen]

"For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book" (Revelation 22:18).

That only applies to the scroll of prophecy, not to the whole Bible.

Revelation 22:18 NIV
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll:
If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll.

[

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

That only applies to the scroll of prophecy, not to the whole Bible.

Revelation 22:18 NIV
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll:
If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll.

[

This just an example of your misinterpretation of scripture. This is the Revelation of Jesus Christ, Who is the Word. He is God and has given us a His message from Genesis to Revelation. Obviously if he doesn't want us to add or take away from Revelation, this would also apply to the entire Bible as well.

From RC Sproul:
As the supreme and inherent authority over all, the Lord must be obeyed when He speaks. To try to alter His words in any way is to deny His authority and wisdom. Such an attempt at alteration, in effect, says that we know better than the Lord. Thus, while the warning in Revelation 22:18–19 applies first to Revelation, it must ultimately apply to every word of divine revelation, to every word of the Lord.

 

[Johann]

This just an example of your misinterpretation of scripture. This is the Revelation of Jesus Christ, Who is the Word. He is God and has given us a His message from Genesis to Revelation. Obviously if he doesn't want us to add or take away from Revelation, this would also apply to the entire Bible as well.

From RC Sproul:
As the supreme and inherent authority over all, the Lord must be obeyed when He speaks. To try to alter His words in any way is to deny His authority and wisdom. Such an attempt at alteration, in effect, says that we know better than the Lord. Thus, while the warning in Revelation 22:18–19 applies first to Revelation, it must ultimately apply to every word of divine revelation, to every word of the Lord.

You are wasting your time @Ronald David Bruno-the man is a joker.

J.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

You are wasting your time @Ronald David Bruno-the man is a joker.

J.

Ah, probably so. He searching, wrestling with, denouncing and distorting scripture, trying to find a support group who agrees with all his assertions and doubts. He's got the Universalist clan agreeing and liking some of his threads. If for no other purpose, he can keep those guys occupied!

 

[Johann]

Ah, probably so. He searching, wrestling with, denouncing and distorting scripture, trying to find a support group who agrees with all his assertions and doubts. He's got the Universalist clan agreeing and liking some of his threads. If for no other purpose, he can keep those guys occupied!

Shalom to you and family brother.

Johann.

 

[Lizbeth]

That only applies to the scroll of prophecy, not to the whole Bible.

Revelation 22:18 NIV
I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll:
If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll.

[

Seems to be a recurring theme in the bible. It's never right to handle any scripture falsely:

Deu 4:2
Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Jer 8:8
“How can you say, ‘We are wise,
And the law of the LORD is with us’?
But behold, the lying pen of the scribes
Has made it into a lie.

 

[St. SteVen]

Seems to be a recurring theme in the bible. It's never right to handle any scripture falsely:

There is no consensus on biblical interpretation.
Bible thumpers like to claim that they alone hold the key and everyone else is wrong.

[

 

[Lizbeth]

And it is interesting that in Revelation it says if anyone adds or takes away from the book, that those same plagues will be added to those who do so which Mystery Babylon receives. I wonder if that's because adding or taking away from God's word is a habit and signature of Mystery Babylon so it means those who do this belong to "her" and that's why they receive of "her" plagues of deception and destruction.

The truth and true gospel has always been under attack since the beginning, and this will result in plagues, curses and destruction (as opposed to blessing and Life) for those who propagate what is false as well as those who are taken in by it:

2Pe 3:16
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

 

[St. SteVen]

The truth and true gospel has always been under attack since the beginning, and this will result in plagues, curses and destruction (as opposed to blessing and Life)

What "truth and true gospel" are you claiming was from the beginning?

[

 

[Lizbeth]

There is no consensus on biblical interpretation.
Bible thumpers like to claim that they alone hold the key and everyone else is wrong.

[

Funny then that the Lord holds every soul accountable for rejecting the truth, if the truth on foundational things is that hard to get hold of. The bible says "What can the righteous do if the foundations be destroyed?" We need to have the foundation right (and established IN us) surely, in order to truthfully be called a Christian.

It seems your definition of a bible thumper is anyone who holds to the plain and simple truth of the gospel as taught in the bible.

I think you need to consider that people without the Spirit and the faith that is of the Spirit and not of our own, are the ones who find consensus hard on foundational truths.

However there is more disagreement on meatier things that require further growth to understand though, and that is why we are not to cause our brother to stumble over meats. (The Lord may have more to say to us, "but ye are not yet able to receive it." Both Jesus and Paul said this.)

 

[Lizbeth]

What "truth and true gospel" are you claiming was from the beginning?

[

Why are you deflecting from the gist of my post?

 

[RedFan]

It seems your definition of a bible thumper is anyone who holds to the plain and simple truth of the gospel as taught in the bible.

I will let @St.SteVen speak for himself, but I'm ready to offer a definition of "bible thumper" if you care to hear it. To me the phrase means one who looks to the Book rather than to the God who inspired it as the sole source of knowledge of God, and uses their interpretation of the Book to beat down dissenters who dare claim a different source of knowledge of God.

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
What "truth and true gospel" are you claiming was from the beginning?

Why are you deflecting from the gist of my post?

This question is foundational to your post.

Furthermore, you are claiming that Mystery Babylon (which appears in Revelations) has somehow been on the scene since when?

[

 

[St. SteVen]

Funny then that the Lord holds every soul accountable for rejecting the truth, if the truth on foundational things is that hard to get hold of. The bible says "What can the righteous do if the foundations be destroyed?" We need to have the foundation right (and established IN us) surely, in order to truthfully be called a Christian.

Rejecting "the truth"?
You mean your specific doctrinal opinions, right?
Anyone who doesn't march lock-step with those who share your opinions are "rejecting the truth"?

I think you need to consider that people without the Spirit and the faith that is of the Spirit and not of our own, are the ones who find consensus hard on foundational truths.

Tribalism.
How do YOU determine who has the Spirit and who doesn't?
Do you choose a narrow slice of Protestantism and discount everyone else?

[

 

[St. SteVen]

I will let @St.SteVen speak for himself, but I'm ready to offer a definition of "bible thumper" if you care to hear it. To me the phrase means one who looks to the Book rather than to the God who inspired it as the sole source of knowledge of God, and uses their interpretation of the Book to beat down dissenters who dare claim a different source of knowledge of God.

Agree.
Well-stated, thanks.

[

 

[Lizbeth]

I will let @St.SteVen speak for himself, but I'm ready to offer a definition of "bible thumper" if you care to hear it. To me the phrase means one who looks to the Book rather than to the God who inspired it as the sole source of knowledge of God, and uses their interpretation of the Book to beat down dissenters who dare claim a different source of knowledge of God.

But there is no argument between God being the source of knowledge and the bible being a source of knowledge, since the written scriptures are HIS God-breathed words. If we love the Lord, we love and accept what He says, in whatever manner He conveys truth to us.

 

[Lizbeth]

Rejecting "the truth"?
You mean your specific doctrinal opinions, right?
Anyone who doesn't march lock-step with those who share your opinions are "rejecting the truth"?

No, not my opinions.....I'm talking about rejecting clear teachings of scripture.

Tribalism.
How do YOU determine who has the Spirit and who doesn't?
Do you choose a narrow slice of Protestantism and discount everyone else?

You shall know them by their fruits. Discernment. And let us remember that God said in HIs word that only a remnant would be saved, and that there are tares among the wheat. Not all who name the Name of Christ belong to Him. Twisting and wresting scripture is not good fruit and often a sign that someone has not the Spirit of God. They are placing their personal preferences above the Truth and siding with "self" instead of with God. "Thou shalt have no other gods before Me." He sends deception/delusion to those who received not a love of the truth.