Hellfire and brimstone has given way to eternal separation from God. - Why?

[Ronald David Bruno]

Last nail in the proverbial coffin.
Couldn't agree more.

J.

Not likely, he's still breathing and kicking. He'll reject all of it in the same way he discards and distorts scripture.
Liberals like to pick and choose the scriptures that work for them. He seems very familiar with lots of theology and seems in protest to much of it.
His threads ( lots of them) attempt to dismantle the stories and truths of the Bible - spewing doubts and misguided conclusions. It's quite different than the pure, unadulterated, absolute message of the Bible. I mean what are we being saved from if not spiritual death and destruction? God is Love but He is a God of Justice too. Sin will be either forgiven or judged and many will suffer this final death.

Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." Matt. 7:13-14

That means the majority of souls will not make it. If it is narrow, then it is less than 50%. And the Bible does state 1/3 to he saved in several passages, which is where the numbers are now.

"And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Hell." Matt. 10:28

 

[St. SteVen]

Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." Matt. 7:13-14

That means the majority of souls will not make it. If it is narrow, then it is less than 50%. And the Bible does state 1/3 to he saved in several passages, which is where the numbers are now.

That's a pretty pathetic plan for humankind. What kind of a monster god have you created?

[

 

[Johann]

That's a pretty pathetic plan for humankind. What kind of a monster god have you created?

[

The words of the biblical Jesus Christ, which you seem to have a significant issue with, @St. SteVen.

J.

 

[St. SteVen]

The words of the biblical Jesus Christ, which you seem to have a significant issue with, @St. SteVen.

The words of the "biblical" Jesus Christ? - LOL
Not everyone agrees with your interpretation.
Why do you present your opinions as if they are the only valid POV?

[

 

[Johann]

The words of the "biblical" Jesus Christ? - LOL
Not everyone agrees with your interpretation.
Why do you present your opinions as if they are the only valid POV?

[

You have an issue with Christ Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit, as well as the God-breathed Scriptures. You want to rewrite and redefine what is clearly written in the Holy Scriptures to fit your narrative of Universalism-something that is nowhere found in the Bible.

It's no surprise that your point of view is in the minority, as it is not biblical in any way, shape, or form. In other words, you're promoting "another gospel."

J.

 

[St. SteVen]

You have an issue with Christ Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit, as well as the God-breathed Scriptures. You want to rewrite and redefine what is clearly written in the Holy Scriptures to fit your narrative of Universalism-something that is nowhere found in the Bible.

It's no surprise that your point of view is in the minority, as it is not biblical in any way, shape, or form. In other words, you're promoting "another gospel."

I think you take your religion too seriously. You come unglued at any challenge.
And then you starting spewing false witness and lies like I quoted from you above.

If you have a question, you can ask me. No need to make false accusations.

Doctrine as a god - bow down before the one you serve...

There is no salvation in doctrine. Only God can save. --- Agree or disagree? --- Doctrolatry (to coin a term) Follow-up to several topics: "My doctrinal opinion is true; you're doctrinal opinion is false." - Got it? The (potential) Treachery of Doctrine > My way, or the highway > What...

www.christianityboard.com

[

 

[Johann]

That's a pretty pathetic plan for humankind. What kind of a monster god have you created?

[

 

[Runningman]

Over the years I have noticed a shift away from the embarrassment of the hell doctrine.
It had always seemed like the "fly in the ointment" of Christianity to me.
But we had biblical evidence that it was sad, but true.

The solution was evangelism. We are in the business of "saving souls from hell." Err...
I mean "eternal separation from God." (whatever that means to you) ???

This task of world evangelism was completely overwhelming.
We had annual world missions conferences for fund raising.
We were sending and supporting missionaries at home and abroad.

Some were wanting to be good stewards of their giving by
demanding results, or channeling the funds toward "fruitful" ministries.
Which meant withdrawing support from any who seemed to not
measure up to their expectations. Made me wonder.

Here at home we were still expected to spread the good news.
But, an over-evangelized America was less than welcoming.
They hadn't forgotten the "hellfire and brimstone".

What's your take on all of this?



@Patrick1966 @Hillsage @Chadrho @FaithWillDo @Nancy @GRACE ambassador @quietthinker @Lambano

Not sure when you're referring to, but there are a lot of people, mostly younger, in America nowadays who have never even heard of Jesus or have a concept of God. They are typically not hostile toward the ideas, when presented, either.

Jesus and God have been sterilized from being mentioned pretty much everywhere in public so it's not a surprise. I hope to see a revival that actually makes sense and attracts people to Christianity. People just aren't buying the "Jesus is a man god" philosophy anymore and likely it will be the undoing of what we call the "orthodox church" within 50 years, in my opinion. The "eternal hell" philosophy also doesn't scare people much anymore and that will also contribute to it.

 

[Lizbeth]

I hope so. That would be an absolute triumph of grace.
Jesus taught us to love our enemies. What will he do with his own?

In the age of restoration all things will be restored.
There will be healing for the nations and between individuals.
Everyone will answer for their lives.

I could see that extending into the angelic realm.
Each angel would answer for their deeds.
Last one standing would Satan himself. The last one to be
evaluated/corrected/restored/redeemed.

That would be an absolute triumph of grace.

I'm guessing that you are appalled at the thought.
But you already approve of the vast majority of humankind
being trapped pointlessly in eternal conscious torment.
So, why would you care?

[

I think we need to understand what restoration entails. It involves the removal and destruction of evil and evil-doers from God's domain/kingdom. Which means from all that exists, since everything that exists is God's.

This is what restoration looks like:

Mat 13:39-43

The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

 

[One 2 question]

You have an issue with Christ Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit, as well as the God-breathed Scriptures.

What do YOU mean by the phrase, the God-breathed scriptures?

You want to rewrite and redefine what is clearly written in the Holy Scriptures to fit your narrative of Universalism-something that is nowhere found in the Bible.

But not all truth is found in the bible is it?

It's no surprise that your point of view is in the minority, as it is not biblical in any way, shape, or form. In other words, you're promoting "another gospel."

can you tell us what Paul's gospel was, according to Paul himself?

What about promoting God's truth's that didn't make it into the book refered to as the bible. For some humans decided after numerous attempts, to close off God's revelation of Himself to mankind. Don't some people actually believe that God is mute. That God lost His voice when a certain book was compiled and circulted, and believe that He has never spoken ever since.

This can't be a common belief surely. I was shocked when I heard it just recently.

 

[St. SteVen]

You have an issue with Christ Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit, as well as the God-breathed Scriptures. You want to rewrite and redefine what is clearly written in the Holy Scriptures to fit your narrative of Universalism-something that is nowhere found in the Bible.

It's no surprise that your point of view is in the minority, as it is not biblical in any way, shape, or form. In other words, you're promoting "another gospel."

I think you take your religion too seriously. You come unglued at any challenge.
And then you starting spewing false witness and lies like I quoted from you above.

If you have a question, you can ask me. No need to make false accusations.

You seriously need to get a grip.
Why should the likes of me make you come completely unraveled?

Do you remember what I said about God evaluating us on transformation not on knowledge?

You would do well to work harder on transformation and less on knowledge. IMHO

There is no reason why you and I can't have a civil discussion about these things.

[

 

[St. SteVen]

Don't some people actually believe that God is mute. That God lost His voice when a certain book was compiled and circulted, and believe that He has never spoken ever since.

Yes. In too many cases the Bible stands in the way of a personal relationship with God.

Bibliolatry: Worship/knowledge of the book MORE than the author

I have encountered some that I thought had fallen into this trap. I asked them, "What would become of your faith if you put your whole library out on the curb on trash day?" The guilty are left mostly speechless. Or, alternatively VERY angry. How come? To be clear, I love the Bible and use...

www.christianityboard.com

[

 

[One 2 question]

Yes. In too many cases the Bible stands in the way of a personal relationship with God.

Bibliolatry: Worship/knowledge of the book MORE than the author

I have encountered some that I thought had fallen into this trap. I asked them, "What would become of your faith if you put your whole library out on the curb on trash day?" The guilty are left mostly speechless. Or, alternatively VERY angry. How come? To be clear, I love the Bible and use...

www.christianityboard.com

[

I guess that was a bit like me in the past. But I'm so glad God gently made me aware that i made it an idol. After removing it from my life I have come to see so many other people still practising this kind of idolatry. But God who enlightened me can do the same to them if He so chooses.

It's not my problem at the end of the day. I'm just glad my eyes were opened and my ears too. Now I see and hear what the Spirit is revealing. It's great.

 

[Johann]

What do YOU mean by the phrase, the God-breathed scriptures?

Amazing!

"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness" (Lexham English Bible).

But not all truth is found in the bible is it?

2 Timothy 3:16-17
"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."
This passage teaches that Scripture equips the believer fully for living a righteous life and for good works. It is sufficient for all matters related to faith and godliness.

2. John 17:17
"Sanctify them by the truth; Your word is truth."
Jesus directly states that God’s word is truth. This verse affirms that the Scriptures, which contain God's word, are the ultimate source of truth for sanctification and spiritual growth.

3. Psalm 119:160
"The entirety of Your word is truth, and every one of Your righteous judgments endures forever."
This verse proclaims that all of God's word is true and enduring, meaning that every part of Scripture reveals truth that is eternal and reliable.

4. Proverbs 30:5-6
"Every word of God is flawless; He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him. Do not add to His words, or He will rebuke you and prove you a liar."
Here, the writer emphasizes that God's word is flawless and complete. It warns against adding to Scripture, suggesting that the truth it contains is sufficient and should not be altered.

5. 2 Peter 1:3
"His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and goodness."
This verse implies that through knowing God (as revealed in Scripture), believers have everything necessary for life and godliness, indicating the sufficiency of Scripture in providing spiritual truth.


While the Bible does not contain all information about every subject in the universe, it provides all truth necessary for spiritual life, salvation, and living in accordance with God's will. These passages affirm that the Scriptures are sufficient and complete in revealing the divine truth we need to follow God.

can you tell us what Paul's gospel was, according to Paul himself?

1 Corinthians 15:1-4
"Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you-unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures."

2. Romans 1:16
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek."

3. Romans 3:23-25
"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness."

4. Ephesians 2:8-9
"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast."

5. Galatians 1:8-9
"But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed."

J.

 

[St. SteVen]

While the Bible does not contain all information about every subject in the universe, it provides all truth necessary for spiritual life, salvation, and living in accordance with God's will. These passages affirm that the Scriptures are sufficient and complete in revealing the divine truth we need to follow God.

Is that it?
Is that all it's good for? Tragic.

[ cc: @One 2 question

 

[One 2 question]

While the Bible does not contain all information about every subject in the universe, it provides all truth necessary for spiritual life, salvation, and living in accordance with God's will. These passages affirm that the Scriptures are sufficient and complete in revealing the divine truth we need to follow God.

When did God say to you or anyone else that the scriptures are sufficient and complete in revealing the divine truth we need to follow God?

I haven't come across any reference in the bible that states the words that scripture is complete.

 

[Johann]

I guess that was a bit like me in the past. But I'm so glad God gently made me aware that i made it an idol. After removing it from my life I have come to see so many other people still practising this kind of idolatry. But God who enlightened me can do the same to them if He so chooses.

It's not my problem at the end of the day. I'm just glad my eyes were opened and my ears too. Now I see and hear what the Spirit is revealing. It's great.

You are mistaken because you don't rely on the authority of Scripture but instead trust voices or experiences that go against what is written. After you effectively "removed the Bible" from your life, that's where I stopped reading.

You seem more interested in pontificating and philosophizing, thinking you can navigate life without the foundation of Scripture.

J.

 

[Johann]

Is that it?
Is that all it's good for? Tragic.

[ cc: @One 2 question

It's quite unfortunate, @St. SteVen, as your false claims about universalism have been exposed, and it seems you're scrambling to hold your ground. You and your companion are in the business of rewriting, crafting your own version of the "Bible" rather than submitting to Christ and the authority of the written Word.

"For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book" (Revelation 22:18).

@One 2 question has abandoned the Scriptures and instead relies on experiences or voices that contradict what is written-a tragic situation indeed.

"There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death" (Proverbs 14:12).

Perhaps it's time for him to reconsider his "handle" because it's clear that he’s not standing on the truth of God's Word.

"The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God stands forever" (Isaiah 40:8).

Now cease stalking or tagging me @St. SteVen.

J.

 

[St. SteVen]

You seem more interested in pontificating and philosophizing, thinking you can navigate life without the foundation of Scripture.

That saw cuts both ways.
Do you really think you can navigate life without a personal relationship with God?

[

 

[One 2 question]

Y

You are mistaken because you don't rely on the authority of Scripture but instead trust voices or experiences that go against what is written. After you effectively "removed the Bible" from your life, that's where I stopped reading.

You seem more interested in pontificating and philosophizing, thinking you can navigate life without the foundation of Scripture.

J.

You are correct. I don't rely on scripture. I rely on the Spirit Who God sent. And I'm not ashamed to admit this.

How do you know what the Spirit of Truth reveals to me goes against what is written (by others who are carried along by the same Spirit)?

I keep it pretty simple actually. I just interact with the Spirit my Father sent to be within me. No need for a go between. I'm content with the Source of all truth. The Creators. And being led throughout life each day by the Divine Gift Father gave to be in and with me constantly. It's a great way to live life.