Hell Question

[Wayne Murray]

(wingnut;37061)
One of the clearest is Sodom. It is given as an example of "eternal fire"Jude 1:7 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Is Sodom burning today? No. It was totally consumed. That is how "eternal fire" works - it destroys the city eternally, but the punishment is not eternal punishing but eternal punishment.
Excellent point "wingnut"!!!

 

[DrBubbaLove]

my understanding of earthly cities is that they are not in any real sense immortal, though I have heard some New Yorker's talk that way about theirs. Have also been told that the site of these two cities destroyed by "eternal" fire have never been rebuilt, which as far as a city is concerned sounds like an eternal punishment to me, it was torn down forever. However, the physical location of the cities still exists, though we may not be certain exactly where that was, we can be sure it was not annihilated as in the location no longer exists as a place. In fact am told you can take tours to the area and the guides will suggest where those cities once were. Nor does any of this address the current status of the immortal souls of those cities. So while on the one hand, we can admit to a sense of "for ever" in that cities have never rebuilt, it is not proof of total annihilation in the sense that the physical location still exists. If one could somehow know the location and rebuild the city, it would no doubt be called Sodom. Not that anyone sane would want to live there or even in that area. If someone did we can all imagine what sort they would be and what they would call themselves.

 

[Unorthodox Christian]

SOrry Bubba Love I get ahead of myself sometimes. TOO MUCH Zeal is a bad thing sometimes cause you're zeal needs to be in moderation.

 

[Wayne Murray]

(DrBubbaLove;37145)
So while on the one hand, we can admit to a sense of "for ever" in that cities have never rebuilt, it is not proof of total annihilation in the sense that the physical location still exists.
Pure babble, enough said.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

LOL, should have guessed such a response. If one says every stone of the temple thrown down can ONLY mean that every stone within site of the hill the temple is on must be thrown down, we should wonder why a fine line need be drawn here. But even so, does not drawing the line equal babble?Annihilation means nothing exists. Where there was something existing before, there is nothing at all now, nothing that "remains". In that sense, fire does not annihilate a tree, it transforms it into what was once a tree, namely ash and carbon-dioxide. The tree is not annihilated, it is transformed. Yes it is changed, the tree is destroyed and what remains can no longer be called a tree, but only that which was once a tree. Destruction and annihilation are not synonyms.A city is a location as well as structures and people. Am not suggesting one must agree that Sodom was not utterly destroyed. Simply suggesting that eternal fire did not annihilate the location of those cities, the place still exists. Only the structures and peoples are gone. Even there the "fire" aspect of that destruction as described in scripture and as evident according to some geologist studying that area (sulfer/salt...etc) suggest a transformation, which is what fire does, not an annihilation. So even the people and buildings where not turned to nothingness, they were not annihilated.When one speaks of annihilation of an immortal soul, one is saying a thing no longer exists that formerly did exist, it ceases to be anything at all. You are not implying it is transformed into something else, that would not be annihilation. And only God could do that, annihilate BTW.

 

[SilentFlight]

I don't really understand hell, i understand the judgment on the last day that only i feel like there is something missing although in someways i think it is beyond knowledge, it just doesnt seem to add up that God will leave people to suffer eternally for things they did in their life. When fire is described is it fire as we know it or is it trying to describe something beyond what language can convey, without seeing it.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

Hey SilentFlight, I agree fire describes something undescribable and no doubt much worse than burning alive.As to the idea of God leaving people to suffer eternally, are we talking from a view of Justice or from a view of how could that be Love or Mercy, or how could God not be saddened by the thought of the suffering? Or all three?First before answering consider that even if we admit annihilation, the dilemma posed still exists to some extent. God is still allowing some amount of great suffering and He would have knowledge of it.

 

[Hawkins]

(DrBubbaLove;37226)
Hey SilentFlight, I agree fire describes something undescribable and no doubt much worse than burning alive.As to the idea of God leaving people to suffer eternally, are we talking from a view of Justice or from a view of how could that be Love or Mercy, or how could God not be saddened by the thought of the suffering? Or all three?First before answering consider that even if we admit annihilation, the dilemma posed still exists to some extent. God is still allowing some amount of great suffering and He would have knowledge of it.
While I have to humbly admit that I don't fully understand God, I don't fully understand His Love, His Justice, His Law, His judgement and His kingdom in Heaven. I put my faith on that someday when I am with Him He will explain those parts to me, while my faith is against all odds.And I wonder how different is that when we seek human logical explanation in order to believe that our Lord God is 100% Loving and Just, from those atheists seeking evidence of proof to believe His existence. Especially when we have to make Christians from AD33 to AD2000 wrong for us to be right.Hmm...no chance.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

If understood I agree Hawkins. It is just that not many here believe that any group of Christians today represent what Christians have believed since 33AD. Some of us do, but find appeals to reason easier as there is a tendency to look at history and scripture without agreeing on using the same lens to focus it. Reason and logic however are equally available to all, pretty much.

 

[lastsecman]

If hell is not horrible people would not be afraid to not sin.

 

[HammerStone]

If hell is not horrible people would not be afraid to not sin.
I have to disagree with that. There are many examples in this world of people knowing full-well the consequences and potential destruction in one way or another, but they do it anyway. It's simply not going to matter for anyone who disregards hell regardless of whether you believe this way or that.I think the overall message is don't end up there in the first place!