Hebrews 3-4: Not About Sabbath-Keeping

[ReChoired]

Yes, but we ought to pray for them because they were led by a woman!

Actually, No. The movement (Revelation 10) was led by the Holy Ghost according to the word of God (Isaiah 8:20), which is designated in scripture as "He".

 

[ReChoired]

SDA’s wrote the book on erroneous and have institutionalized deception.

What is the title of that "book"? Where can I find a copy of it?

 

[Happy Trails]

Greeting all.

I noticed there has been some talk lately about Sabbath-keeping, and while I don't oppose the practice, neither do I hold it as necessary in the life of the believer today as some do on this forum. But I've noticed some cite verses like Hebrews 4:4 as evidence that we God still requires us to keep the 7th Day observance, and I thought this errant interpretation of Hebrews Chapters 3 and 4 should be addressed and cleared up.

The following will be a fuller treatment of these two Chapters in particular, to demonstrate that the references to "the 7th Day" were actually talking about the millennium, when the kingdom of God will finally be established on the earth for a thousand years, and God will finally cease from His work of bringing forth a harvest in the earth. I hope all who take the time to read through this will come away with a better understanding of what the writer was teaching in context, even if at first they may not be in agreement with the interpretation I present.

God bless,
Hidden In Him

1 Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus, 2 who was faithful to Him who appointed Him, as Moses also was faithful in all His house. 3 For this One has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as He who built the house has more honor than the house. 4 For every house is built by someone, but He who built all things is God. 5 And Moses indeed was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which would be spoken afterward, 6 but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.

Jesus here, as our Spiritual High Priest, was being compared to the High Priest over Israel during their time in the wilderness, and this is the key to understanding the entire two Chapters. The writer runs a continuous parallel between the New Testament saints sojourning towards the promise land of Heaven (and eventually the establishment of the kingdom of God on earth during the millennium) and the Israelites sojourning through the wilderness to the promised land on earth.

This was a MAJOR prophetic parallel that was constantly being made reference to by the New Testament writers. For instance, Paul also compared the Corinthians to the Israelites journeying through the wilderness in 1st Corinthians 10, where he stated the following:

1 Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness. 6 Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted. 7 And do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.” 8 Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell; 9 nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents; 10 nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer. 11 Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come. 12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall. 13 No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.

This is the same teaching the writer of Hebrews will give in Hebrews 3 and 4, only there he will focus more on the end result of the sojourn: Attaining to our spiritual promised land of Heaven. But the warnings were there again: The Israelites hardened their hearts against God because they did not trust Him in their circumstances, and the New Testament saints were having to face the same sorts of things; they were having to trust God during hardships, because the journey was being filled with persecution, opposition, afflictions and deprivations. And hardships in the wilderness are what caused some of the Israelites to turn against God in what was called "the provocation," when many claimed that they were better off in Egypt than to be suffering lack and wandering about in danger in the desert. This event is what the writer now refers to as we return to Hebrews 3:

7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says: “Today, if you will hear His voice, 8 Do not harden your hearts as in the provocation, in the day of trial in the wilderness, 9 where your fathers tested Me, tried Me, and saw My works forty years. 10 Therefore I was angry with that generation, and said, ‘They always go astray in their heart, and they have not known My ways.’ 11 So I swore in My wrath they shall not enter My rest.’”

From this passage on, it is clear that the "rest" the writer was talking about was Entering the promised land, not Sabbath-keeping. God swore in His anger that the Israelites would not enter the promise land, and they did not. So, too, was the writer giving a warning that believers in the Lord Jesus Christ would likewise not enter the promised land of Heaven if they should harden their hearts in the midst of the trials they were suffering.

Returning again to the text, he will now address was initially caused their downfall: Not continuing to trust God in faith, which in turn led to departing from Him into sin:

12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, 15 while it is said: “Today, if you will hear His voice, do not harden your hearts as in the provocation.” 16 For who, having heard, rebelled? Indeed, not all who came out of Egypt led by Moses. 17 But with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

We see that they could not enter into what after forty years? Sabbath-keeping? No. They were keeping the Sabbath. The "rest" He was clearly talking about "entering into" here was the promised land, and by contrast, the promised land of Heaven (and by extension the millennial kingdom) was the "rest" Christians needed to be striving to enter into. But those in the wilderness stopped trusting Him in the hardships, and because they stopped trusting in Him, they soon began entering into sins of various kinds. So the teaching was not to "fall by the same example of unbelief," for New Testament believers were going through hardships as well, and if they began to doubt God, they too would eventually begin giving themselves to sin and rebellion, and eventually lose their salvation as a result.

Chapter 4 follows in the next post.

I think you may not be looking at the issue objectively.

If, as a Christian, I claim to follow Jesus, what am I doing? Am I being a generically moral person? That seems to be the position of most Christians. However, morality is no better a standard than any other faith that promotes "being a good person."

If I am following Jesus, what did He do?

We are told a number of times He observed the Sabbath.

1 John 5:3 says that loving God IS keeping his commandments. That comes from a number of times we are told (Exodus 20:6, Deut 5:10, 7:9, 11:1 and many more...) that loving God is shown by our obedience.

Jesus told us that disobeying the least commandment would make us least in the Kingdom. Why would we do that?

 

[Hidden In Him]

I think it was an extreme kindness on God's part to release His people under the new covenant of sabbath observance sir. But let me ask you, because I feel this way. If a person teaches others that God's law for us is to observe the sabbath, do you believe that one should have to accept the penalty of disobedience of it if they choose to violate it?

Greetings Robert, and thanks for the post.

I suppose in extreme cases there are some who might apply the teaching this stringently, but I think with most they simply regard the penalties for sins as having been nailed to the cross, so while they hold to sabbath breaking as still being a serious sin they don't view the penalty for doing so as being the same as during NT times.

If everlasting life is based on observing the sabbath, who could gain it?

So far as I know, the only ones who feel it will eventually become necessary unto salvation are the SDAs, in light of their belief that the RCC will eventually institute Sunday worship as law and have put to death anyone who doesn't abide by it. But they don't feel the situation is that grave yet. As for me, I've always felt their eschatology was way too heavily skewed almost exclusively towards a RCC-centric interpretation of prophecy, at the expense of other end-time players such as the Muslims and Satanists.

I'm not well-educated on Jehovahs Witness interpretation of end-time prophecy, but maybe you could enlighten me on that if you wish.

God bless,
HiH

 

[Hidden In Him]

I think you may not be looking at the issue objectively.

If, as a Christian, I claim to follow Jesus, what am I doing? Am I being a generically moral person? That seems to be the position of most Christians. However, morality is no better a standard than any other faith that promotes "being a good person."

If I am following Jesus, what did He do?

We are told a number of times He observed the Sabbath.

1 John 5:3 says that loving God IS keeping his commandments. That comes from a number of times we are told (Exodus 20:6, Deut 5:10, 7:9, 11:1 and many more...) that loving God is shown by our obedience.

Jesus told us that disobeying the least commandment would make us least in the Kingdom. Why would we do that?

Greetings Happy Trials, and welcome to the forum.

I'm actually not the most objective person in the world. I can admittedly be highly subjective at times. But now, this is why I tend to prefer dealing with more strict analysis of the passage(s) in question. If you could, my request of others in this discussion - should they disagree with me - has been to ask them to go through and give me their exegesis of the entire two Chapters and tell me how they interpret things in light of the fuller context.

I could reply to your point about Jesus observing the Sabbath, but that would only further detract from analyzing the Chapters at hand, so if you could, please let have your verse by verse interpretations and I will go over it whenever I have time. Just logging on to answer a few posts, but I'm not very active right now, so I will respond when I get back.

God bless,
Hidden In Him

 

[BarneyFife]

This entire argument is a poorly constructed house of theological cards that is clearly designed to confuse people into questioning the authority of what Paul taught concerning the Sabbath. The fact that Paul used the word "sabbatismos" in Heb. 4:9 shows Paul was describing the literal act of Sabbath-keeping as being a Christian obligation, and therefore supports the entire context of Paul likening the people who reject the Sabbath to the Israelites God condemned to die outside the Promised Land.

As a 32-year and running, Sabbath-keeping Seventh-day Adventist, myself, I have to check this error. The Seventh-day Adventist Bible Commentary doesn't even claim this. No respected Adventist scholar holds this view today. The only part of the two chapters in question that even refer to the Sabbath as an institution is in Hebrews 4:4 and that is to set up the analogy with the rest of the heavenly Canaan.

The word "sabbatismos" appears only once in the entirety of the NT, so we (laymen, at least) have only one way of defining it, and that is by uninspired lexicons at least one of which specifies a secondary definition (besides "a Sabbath rest") of "the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians."

If the text means "weekly Sabbath" then why didn't the author of Hebrews (who may or may not be Paul, btw--which doesn't necessarily help my argument, but...) use "sabbaton," as is used in virtually every other reference to the 7th-day Sabbath in the NT?

The defense of the 4th commandment does not need sketchy evidence upon which to rest (no pun intended ).

 

[BarneyFife]

I think you may not be looking at the issue objectively.

If, as a Christian, I claim to follow Jesus, what am I doing? Am I being a generically moral person? That seems to be the position of most Christians. However, morality is no better a standard than any other faith that promotes "being a good person."

If I am following Jesus, what did He do?

We are told a number of times He observed the Sabbath.

1 John 5:3 says that loving God IS keeping his commandments. That comes from a number of times we are told (Exodus 20:6, Deut 5:10, 7:9, 11:1 and many more...) that loving God is shown by our obedience.

Jesus told us that disobeying the least commandment would make us least in the Kingdom. Why would we do that?

Welcome, Welcome, Happy Trails!!! :);):cool:

This thread is not about Sabbath-keeping, in general, but this one is and it's pretty hot right now.

I like this thread, though. :)

 

[JunChosen]

There's so much wrong with that statement.

[1] Deborah was a prophetess [Judges 4:4].

[2] Miriam was a prophetess [Exodus 15:20].

[3] Huldah was a prophetess [2 Kings 22:14; 2 Chronicles 34:22]

[4] Isaiah's Wife, a prophetess [Isaiah 8:3]

[5] Anna in the Temple, the daughter of Phanuel is a prophetess [Luke 2:36].

[6] The 4 Daughters of Philip the Evangelist [Acts 21:9] were prophetesses.

The role of a prophet is "TO DECLARE THE WORD OF GOD." In the Old Testament the prophets didn't have the word of God written until Moses and Jeremiah [just to name a couple] who received revelation from God and wrote them in a book. Today, we have the whole Word of God written in a book called the Bible, as our source book of truth concerning spiritual things.

And, there are NO MORE REVELATION COMING FROM GOD whether in a dream, angel visitation or miracles! The Bible is closed.

Likewise, as Deborah was a judge who ruled Israel [Judges 4:4-9] and also a prophetess, received revelation from God which she told to Barak [vs 6].

Normally, all the prophets were men and Deborah is the exception to the rule.

We don't find that the other women you mentioned received revelations from God, as the prophets and Deborah did. Why they were were called prophetess I know not. Perhaps you can shed some light?

Yep. Non sequitur. Differing office and differing gifts. Prophets(ess) are differing office and gift than both priest and apostle. No one is claiming that sister White was a "priest" or an "apostle". Her claim was that she was a "messenger of the LORD".

Sorry, I was not talking about hierarchy [1 Corinthians 11:3]. I was talking about that, normally, all kings and judges, prophets, priests, and apostles were men, except for Deborah.

If White claims to be a "messenger of God" because she saw a "halo" around the fourth commandment then I say she is a false messenger. A messenger of God in the New Testament is one who is born of God not of men/flesh and who is qualified to teach and declare the word of God. [ Matthew 28:19-20 ].

To God Be The Glory

 

[ReChoired]

If White claims to be a "messenger of God" because she saw a "halo" around the fourth commandment...

Yeah, that is actually in the Bible. Takes only a few moments of study, in our day, to understand that what she saw is true. If you need some help in putting the pieces together for yourself, I can give you some hints, so as not to lead you to the conclusion, but so that you can see how all the pieces fit together yourself.

 

[ReChoired]

And, there are NO MORE REVELATION COMING FROM GOD whether in a dream, angel visitation or miracles!

Incorrect. Would you like to see that from the Bible itself? Most people misunderstand Hebrews 1:1-3; 1 Corinthians 13:8.

The Bible is closed.

Yes, the 66 books (I can show you by scripture that they are indeed 66) are the whole Bible. Not in question at all. Isaiah 8:20. I am not saying that prophecy is the Bible. It is the testimony of Jesus (Revelation 19:10 KJB).

 

[JunChosen]

Yeah, that is actually in the Bible. Takes only a few moments of study, in our day, to understand that what she saw is true. If you need some help in putting the pieces together for yourself, I can give you some hints, so as not to lead you to the conclusion, but so that you can see how all the pieces fit together yourself.

Please do, I pray tell, show me how all the pieces that fit together?

 

[JunChosen]

Incorrect. Would you like to see that from the Bible itself? Most people misunderstand Hebrews 1:1-3; 1 Corinthians 13:8

Yes, most definitely! I would like to see that from the Bible, and your interpretation of Hebrews 1:1-3 and 1 Corinthians 13:8?

 

[Robert Gwin]

Greetings Robert, and thanks for the post.

I suppose in extreme cases there are some who might apply the teaching this stringently, but I think with most they simply regard the penalties for sins as having been nailed to the cross, so while they hold to sabbath breaking as still being a serious sin they don't view the penalty for doing so as being the same as during NT times.


So far as I know, the only ones who feel it will eventually become necessary unto salvation are the SDAs, in light of their belief that the RCC will eventually institute Sunday worship as law and have put to death anyone who doesn't abide by it. But they don't feel the situation is that grave yet. As for me, I've always felt their eschatology was way too heavily skewed almost exclusively towards a RCC-centric interpretation of prophecy, at the expense of other end-time players such as the Muslims and Satanists.

I'm not well-educated on Jehovahs Witness interpretation of end-time prophecy, but maybe you could enlighten me on that if you wish.

God bless,
HiH

Anytime sir, anything in particular you would like to know? In short, and I will be glad to elaborate, we believe the signs of the end Jesus gave us in Mat 24, begin with his enthronement as King and end with the end of the great tribulation. We believe the appointed times of the nations ended in 1914 the year of Jesus' enthronement, and we have been living in the last days of this age which will not exceed one generation, therefore we believe we are on the verge of the outbreak of the greatest tribulation to ever hit mankind. Thanks ever so much for asking Hid.

 

[ReChoired]

Please do, I pray tell, show me how all the pieces that fit together?

Ok, begin with looking up every single Sabbath text. Then look up every Covevant text. Then look up every Rainbow text. Then look up every Glory text. Then look up every Light text. Then look up every LORD text. That should lead you to some specific texts which will connect together, and in connection with several prophets as well.

 

[ReChoired]

Yes, most definitely! I would like to see that from the Bible, and your interpretation of Hebrews 1:1-3 and 1 Corinthians 13:8?

I cannot give you 'my interpretation', but I can share what the Bible says of itself (Genesis 40:8; 2 Peter 1:19-21; Isaiah 8:20, 28:10,13; Luke 24:45; Daniel 2:23-30; etc). Do you still want that?

 

[JunChosen]

Ok, begin with looking up every single Sabbath text. Then look up every Covevant text. Then look up every Rainbow text. Then look up every Glory text. Then look up every Light text. Then look up every LORD text. That should lead you to some specific texts which will connect together, and in connection with several prophets as well.

You're asking too much! You don't really expect me to read a novel do you? You didn't want me to do your own homework, do you? Is not a few Scripture passages sufficient to give an answer to the subject at hand?

I cannot give you 'my interpretation', but I can share what the Bible says of itself (Genesis 40:8; 2 Peter 1:19-21; Isaiah 8:20, 28:10,13; Luke 24:45; Daniel 2:23-30; etc). Do you still want that?

You cannot give an interpretation because God has NOT opened your eyes! The minute I read Genesis 40:8 I knew where you were going with this.

I apologize to say but you just do not know how to read posts, nor understand Scripture!

Before the Bible was completed it was still possible for man to receive messages in the form of dreams and visions [Joel 2:28-29], angel visitations, and miracles. Now that the Bible is complete all these things have ended!

Revelation 22:18-19 reads:
18) For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book [Bible], God shall ADD unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19) And if any man shall TAKE AWAY from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things written in this book.

By the above declaration God is saying, "there are no more revelations coming out from Him." So why do SDAs insists that White is a "messenger of God" who received a vision and saw a "halo" around the fourth commandment, as if there was something significance about the vision as yourself admitted the Canon is closed?

The Canon is indeed closed therefore your leader COULD NOT HAVE RECEIVED a message from God! And, that makes her a false messenger.

To God Be The Glory