Hearing the Lord, and pride vs humility

[Karl Peters]

You have completely missed what I wrote, and then made unfounded accusations. I suspect that you may not be aware of the history of how the scriptures in our language came to be and why we must examine them with the resources available. It is in small communities of believers that we discuss and discern; finally asking God for truth. If any petition to Yahweh for truth is not answered for me, it simply becomes a sticky note until I get the answer. Those things that are validated are etched in my granite tablet.

The "sacred writings" which we have available are true, and Yahweh through His Son can settle any disagreements between the Son's followers. The thing that is truly sad is that the follower's have not trusted God to validate our views about what was written. We, instead, choose man who professes to know, and THAT is why we have denominations.

My Yeshua is alive and well; serving as the mediator between His Father and I.

Do you?

If Yeshua - which in the American language, we call Jesus - is in fact the mediator between you and His Father then you listen to Him!!! If then you listen to Him, like the His Father said!!!

And while that is recorded in the translations:

Jn 9:35 Then a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!”

It is not the reading the above verse, but hearing that personally that is important, as anyone who listens wound understand!!! But understanding does not come from your reading, but from His mouth!!!

Prov 2:6 For the LORD gives wisdom;
From His mouth come knowledge and understanding.

And from all you have written so far, I have seen nothing you have written that is coming from His mouth to your ears, but you only talk about the translations, and how there are false translations! Is it false translations you are concerned about, or a false spirit? Of put another way, are you looking to lean on your own understanding or are you seeking our Lord Jesus Christ and what He says to us via His Holy Spirit? If seeking what He says via the Holy Spirit then you are testing the spirits as instructed, and thus concerning yourself with listening! But that we don't find in what you wrote.

So what do you think we hear concerning you when we listen? Does not the Holy Spirit testify?

Rom 9:1 I am telling the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience testifies with me in the Holy Spirit,

I see that you have a zeal for God, but is it according to knowledge of Him? If so I tell you the truth: it will show up in your testimony about knowing Him personally!! And then you will make it about Him!

The Holy Spirit once told me:

WE DON’T USE THE LORD TO PREACH THE SCRIPTURES; WE USE THE SCRIPTURES TO PREACH THE LORD!!

and another time:

WE DON’T HAVE UNDERSTANDING BECAUSE WE DON’T READ THE BIBLE WITH UNDERSTANDING, BUT OUR UNDERSTANDING…. UNDERSTAND???

and another time:

THE SCRIPTURES ARE RIGHT, BUT THEY ARE NOT RIGHTEOUS. THEY HAVE NO ABILITY TO ACT. THEY ARE NOT ALIVE, BUT THE WORD OF GOD IS ALIVE AND ACTIVE.

and another time:

I MADE THE MOUNTAIN AND THE MOUNTAIN IS GOOD, BUT WOE TO THOSE WHO WORSHIP THE MOUNTAIN. WOE TO THOSE WHO WORSHIP THE CREATED AND NOT THE CREATOR.
I AM THE WORD OF GOD! THAT IS WHAT THEY CALL ME. FOR WHAT PROPHET EVER SAID ‘THE WORD OF THE LORD CAME TO ME SAYING’ AND DIDN’T MEAN THAT I CAME CLOSE? SHOULD I SHARE MY NAME WITH MY CREATION?

and another time:

UNDERSTANDING IS UNDERSTANDING I AM UNDERSTANDING! UNDERSTAND?

and another time:

THE BEST LISTENERS MAKE THE BEST TEACHERS.


So He makes it about listening and you make it about whether you have the correct translation!!! Don't you have it backwards!! What translation of the Bible didn't tell you to seek Him and listen to Him??? Even that New World translation, which some who do not hear Him have that information in their translation. They just choose to draw disciples to themselves and their translation instead of pointing people to Him. So what translation do you have that didn't tell you to make it about listening to Him?????

Have you not been on that mountain and heard the Father tell you personally through the cloud of the Holy Spirit, about Jesus, saying:

"This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!"

As for me - I can not possible count the number of times I prayed in the morning the Lord's prayer "Oh Father...." and wound up hearing something like, "Karl, I want you listening to My Son!"

So I am not using the Lord to preach the Scriptures, but I am using the Scriptures to preach our Lord Jesus Christ, and Him as the Word of God!! And that means "Listen to Him!" Like His Father also says to those who listen!!!

So again: "THE BEST LISTENERS MAKE THE BEST TEACHERS."

And concerning translations, if we must, I have lots of them. Of course that is largely because He told me to open up a Christian bookstore for Him once, and He still has me selling books on-line to provide for me. So I have translations like the Hendrickson reprint of the Original 1611 Kings James, and a pocket Bible from back in the 1800's, and several inter-linear Bibles, and parallel Bibles, and versions of the Greek Bible, and versions of the Catholic bible with their 73 books, as opposed to the 66 books version {and doesn't 73 sound like a better number than 66). And somewhere I think I still have that New World translation Bible that the Lord also had me look at because He has me talking to that group and trying to lead them to Jesus Christ, because they won't listen to Him like their Bible under their arms tells them to!

So the Lord even made sure they had a good enough copy, and so do you, but do you listen to Him? If so, why are you concerned about the translation and not their listening to Him, like His Father told us all to do!!!!

So you write: "My Yeshua is alive and well; serving as the mediator between His Father and I" - but honestly, that sound more like a religious statement meant to puff yourself up than a sincere attempt to get others to listen to Jesus Christ (or Yeshua if you suddenly want to use the Hebrew)

 

[Spyder]

Do you?

If Yeshua - which in the American language, we call Jesus - is in fact the mediator between you and His Father then you listen to Him!!! If then you listen to Him, like the His Father said!!!

And while that is recorded in the translations:

Jn 9:35 Then a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!”

It is not the reading the above verse, but hearing that personally that is important, as anyone who listens wound understand!!! But understanding does not come from your reading, but from His mouth!!!

Prov 2:6 For the LORD gives wisdom;
From His mouth come knowledge and understanding.

And from all you have written so far, I have seen nothing you have written that is coming from His mouth to your ears, but you only talk about the translations, and how there are false translations! Is it false translations you are concerned about, or a false spirit? Of put another way, are you looking to lean on your own understanding or are you seeking our Lord Jesus Christ and what He says to us via His Holy Spirit? If seeking what He says via the Holy Spirit then you are testing the spirits as instructed, and thus concerning yourself with listening! But that we don't find in what you wrote.

So what do you think we hear concerning you when we listen? Does not the Holy Spirit testify?

Rom 9:1 I am telling the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience testifies with me in the Holy Spirit,

I see that you have a zeal for God, but is it according to knowledge of Him? If so I tell you the truth: it will show up in your testimony about knowing Him personally!! And then you will make it about Him!

The Holy Spirit once told me:

WE DON’T USE THE LORD TO PREACH THE SCRIPTURES; WE USE THE SCRIPTURES TO PREACH THE LORD!!

and another time:

WE DON’T HAVE UNDERSTANDING BECAUSE WE DON’T READ THE BIBLE WITH UNDERSTANDING, BUT OUR UNDERSTANDING…. UNDERSTAND???

and another time:

THE SCRIPTURES ARE RIGHT, BUT THEY ARE NOT RIGHTEOUS. THEY HAVE NO ABILITY TO ACT. THEY ARE NOT ALIVE, BUT THE WORD OF GOD IS ALIVE AND ACTIVE.

and another time:

I MADE THE MOUNTAIN AND THE MOUNTAIN IS GOOD, BUT WOE TO THOSE WHO WORSHIP THE MOUNTAIN. WOE TO THOSE WHO WORSHIP THE CREATED AND NOT THE CREATOR.
I AM THE WORD OF GOD! THAT IS WHAT THEY CALL ME. FOR WHAT PROPHET EVER SAID ‘THE WORD OF THE LORD CAME TO ME SAYING’ AND DIDN’T MEAN THAT I CAME CLOSE? SHOULD I SHARE MY NAME WITH MY CREATION?

and another time:

UNDERSTANDING IS UNDERSTANDING I AM UNDERSTANDING! UNDERSTAND?

and another time:

THE BEST LISTENERS MAKE THE BEST TEACHERS.


So He makes it about listening and you make it about whether you have the correct translation!!! Don't you have it backwards!! What translation of the Bible didn't tell you to seek Him and listen to Him??? Even that New World translation, which some who do not hear Him have that information in their translation. They just choose to draw disciples to themselves and their translation instead of pointing people to Him. So what translation do you have that didn't tell you to make it about listening to Him?????

Have you not been on that mountain and heard the Father tell you personally through the cloud of the Holy Spirit, about Jesus, saying:

"This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!"

As for me - I can not possible count the number of times I prayed in the morning the Lord's prayer "Oh Father...." and wound up hearing something like, "Karl, I want you listening to My Son!"

So I am not using the Lord to preach the Scriptures, but I am using the Scriptures to preach our Lord Jesus Christ, and Him as the Word of God!! And that means "Listen to Him!" Like His Father also says to those who listen!!!

So again: "THE BEST LISTENERS MAKE THE BEST TEACHERS."

And concerning translations, if we must, I have lots of them. Of course that is largely because He told me to open up a Christian bookstore for Him once, and He still has me selling books on-line to provide for me. So I have translations like the Hendrickson reprint of the Original 1611 Kings James, and a pocket Bible from back in the 1800's, and several inter-linear Bibles, and parallel Bibles, and versions of the Greek Bible, and versions of the Catholic bible with their 73 books, as opposed to the 66 books version {and doesn't 73 sound like a better number than 66). And somewhere I think I still have that New World translation Bible that the Lord also had me look at because He has me talking to that group and trying to lead them to Jesus Christ, because they won't listen to Him like their Bible under their arms tells them to!

So the Lord even made sure they had a good enough copy, and so do you, but do you listen to Him? If so, why are you concerned about the translation and not their listening to Him, like His Father told us all to do!!!!

So you write: "My Yeshua is alive and well; serving as the mediator between His Father and I" - but honestly, that sound more like a religious statement meant to puff yourself up than a sincere attempt to get others to listen to Jesus Christ (or Yeshua if you suddenly want to use the Hebrew)

From your many words and your capital letters, I see that the whole idea of discussing scripture with brothers and sisters, sharing ideas and entertaining other thoughts before letting God give me truth is not understandable for you.

Man has gone to great lengths to make scripture conform to their own beliefs and denominational doctrines. This, in turn, makes our bibles seem to say things that the original writers may not have intended. Then, we add on our own inability to understand the culture and customs of the original writers to enlighten us to the meanings. It is a time-consuming work. If we fail to do that, then we have not diligently sought out the truth.

I do understand that there is a lot less work in just accepting our translation as given.

 

[Karl Peters]

From your many words and your capital letters, I see that the whole idea of discussing scripture with brothers and sisters, sharing ideas and entertaining other thoughts before letting God give me truth is not understandable for you.

Man has gone to great lengths to make scripture conform to their own beliefs and denominational doctrines. This, in turn, makes our bibles seem to say things that the original writers may not have intended. Then, we add on our own inability to understand the culture and customs of the original writers to enlighten us to the meanings. It is a time-consuming work. If we fail to do that, then we have not diligently sought out the truth.

I do understand that there is a lot less work in just accepting our translation as given.

Did I not provide enough Scriptures - and what Scriptures did you actually discuss?

I only briefly looked back and what you have written on this thread about hearing God, and did not see any, not even one, Scripture you actually quoted. But what I did note was that you claimed that if a person had false Scripture, then they had a problem, So you just put down some Scripture or translation of them, as being false but did not even give examples of that! And at the same time you claim is something like needing to follow the correct Scripture, but my claim is that we need to follow Jesus Christ and that by actually hearing from Him who said He would never leave us! And I referenced many Scriptures, and even saying He personally told me - thereby testifyiing about Him being there to hear from - unlike you.

Why is does that happen?

I proposed that it is like the arguments that Jesus had with the Pharisees and Seduces, which are recorded in the Bible for all to read about!

I would think you would have read about those discussion like:

Jn 5:18 For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.

Jn 5:19 Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever he Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner.

I tell you, that is where the division comes to this day!! There are some trying to lean on their own understanding - and there are some who are actually hearing from the Lord, so we wind up doing things in 'like manner' So we bring a message like:

Jn 5:24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

And that is the topic of this thread!!!

Hearing the Lord, and pride vs humility

Some operate in humility, though boldly, and so they seek Jesus Christ and tell others to do the same, because they understand from actually hearing Him, that He (Jesus Christ our Lord) is in fact a lot smarter than any person and their thinking.
But others operate by leaning on their own understanding, even their own understanding of the Sacred Writings - thereby declaring some to be false, though they are even unclear and do not reference the specifics on that either! It tell you that you need to listen to Him, and then you will stop worrying so much about if any Scripture is false but you will seek Jesus Christ our Lord and concern yourself more about which spirit is false so that you continue to seek Him via the Holy Spirit!

In other words - is you were making it about hearing the Lord by faith, you would be listening to the Lord just like men like Moses explained that you need to do! But if you don't believe the writings of Moses then how are you going to hear from the Lord? Moses told you to seek the Lord by faith, and that the Word was near you, but you make it about some vague idea of some Scriptures being false?

Yeah - I should not have to spend many words on you, but should only have to had written the title of the thread and you would have sought Him, but it was written about some:

Heb 5:11 Concerning [him we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing.

So, I wind up in longer proofs about them actually needing to hear from Jesus Christ themselves!!

 

[Spyder]

Two different topics here.

I do believe scripture - as much as we can discern that has not been modified by man.

Scripture and spirituality. They are not the same.

I think I can see why it bothers people who place their translated scriptures at the pinnacle of knowing God's will above petitioning God for truth after examining scripture.

1 Jn 2:26–27 I write these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you. But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie—just as it has taught you, abide in him.

Spiritual understanding of the truth of the FATHER always comes from the FATHER through Jesus to us. Even when saints “teach” each other the understanding is made possible by divine inspiration. What John wrote above is the same thing Jesus told us:

Jn 14:26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

Rather than tell anyone what "scripture means," I discuss what scripture says and then wait on God for revelation. To do otherwise would be to place our translations above the Spirit of God.

 

[Karl Peters]

Two different topics here.

I do believe scripture - as much as we can discern that has not been modified by man.

Scripture and spirituality. They are not the same.

I think I can see why it bothers people who place their translated scriptures at the pinnacle of knowing God's will above petitioning God for truth after examining scripture.

1 Jn 2:26–27 I write these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you. But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie—just as it has taught you, abide in him.

Spiritual understanding of the truth of the FATHER always comes from the FATHER through Jesus to us. Even when saints “teach” each other the understanding is made possible by divine inspiration. What John wrote above is the same thing Jesus told us:

Jn 14:26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.

Rather than tell anyone what "scripture means," I discuss what scripture says and then wait on God for revelation. To do otherwise would be to place our translations above the Spirit of God.

Actually the above post needs to be broken down and we will clearly see the problem - though who wants to see their problem?

I do believe scripture - as much as we can discern that has not been modified by man.

If a person believes the Scriptures they will seek the Lord Jesus Christ by faith and hear from Him!! And even the worse translation of the Bible has that information explained it - simply because God is God and makes sure of it. Yet the person who doesn't believe in Him will not seek Him. And that includes many who search the Scriptures instead of coming to Him. They want to make it about the Scriptures instead of using the Scriptures to make it about Him!!! So the following verses apply to them. I would look quote them in the worst translation, but although Spyder comes against certain translations, he does not explain which ones they are?

I would, and did suggest the New World translation might be consider as a poor translation, because from my experience ministering to the Jehovah Witnesses I have yet to meet one who understands the Lord want to speak to us. So let me quote from it and how even it tells a person to seek the voice of the Lord.

New World translation - Jn 5:37 - 40 And the Father who sent me has himself borne witness about me. You have neither heard his voice at any time nor seen his form, 38 and you do not have his word residing in you, because you do not believe the very one whom he sent.
39 “You are searching the Scriptures because you think that you will have everlasting life by means of them; and these are the very ones that bear witness about me. 40 And yet you do not want to come to me so that you may have life.

Now we can compare that to say the NASB, which Zondervan publisher considered was the most word for word translation (at least when I had my Christian bookstore about 20 years ago). And it is my favorite translation (though I have a large number of Bibles) because I speak in American and like to have a word for word translation (as possible - and it is not actually possible because of language differences)

New American Standard Bible - Jn 5:3-40“And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form. “You do not have His word abiding in you, for you do not believe Him whom He sent. You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

Now both of the above text are clearly similar enough to point out a problem that people have, and that is searching the Scriptures instead of actually seek Jesus Christ and having His word abiding in you. Reminder- the Word of God we preach is found near us, even in our heart and mouth, so it is not the words found in ink on pages!! The best of the words recorded there were words spoken to the writers of the Scriptures by God, and so were found in them at one point, but they were not spoken to you, but written by them!

So again, if you believed the writings of those like Moses and John, you would have made it about seeking Jesus Christ, as the Word of God, but if you are about reading about Him more that listening to Him, then you didn't believe the writings!! And Jesus explained that to them, and that too was recorded so that we would not make the same mistake!!

Jn 5: 46,57 “For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. “But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”
“For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me.

And do you not then understand who accuses you? In that case the writer who did his best to tell you to listen to the Christ and who now stands before God, accuses you because you did not believe what he told you!!

Jn 5:45 “Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father; the one who accuses you is Moses, in whom you have set your hope.

And because you read what Moses wrote and still did not make it about hearing the Lord, though Moses clearly wrote:

Deut 6:4-7 “Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!
“You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.
“These words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart.
“You shall teach them diligently to your sons and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise up.

But "“Hear, O Israel!" - as commanded by Moses - so you don't even understand how " The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!" because that understanding only comes for hearing what He, Jesus Christ the Lord our God has to say to you personally. And because you don't listen to Him, you don't " love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.", because that too comes from us actually hearing Him!!

So you didn't keep the command "Hear, O Israel", and failed to get understanding, because understanding and the knowledge of who God is comes from hearing what comes out His mouth to you personally!!

Prov 2:6 For the LORD gives wisdom;
From His mouth come knowledge and understanding.

But who is going to seek Him and listen to Him, like the Scriptures explain?

I can tell you - it is those who have humility and do not think they are smarter that God, and it is not those who operate in pride!!

And now that is what this thread is about and I want to thank Spyder for providing such a wonderful example.

And still there is good new, which can be read about in Rev 3:19,20 - and it is for anyone, even all those not currently actually seeking Him:

Rev 3:19,20 ‘Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent.
‘Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

He loves us, so He reproves us! He asks us to repent (change from our ways to listening to His ways), so we will actually be zealous for Him! And then perhaps we will open up to Him, seek Him, listen to Him, and talk back and for with Him personally! And again, that is for anyone!! So you should have believed what was written! Then you would have made it about Him, like the Scriptures explain!!

 

[Spyder]

So, my dependence on Yahweh to provide understanding and truth is "pride?"

I think our disconnect is larger than the Grand Canyon.

 

[Karl Peters]

So, my dependence on Yahweh to provide understanding and truth is "pride?"

I think our disconnect is larger than the Grand Canyon.

If indeed a person is relying on their "dependence on Yahweh to provide understanding and truth" that is humility. But relying on your understanding of the Scriptures instead of actually relying on Jesus (Yahweh if we are communicating in Hebrew, but we are not) then in fact you are into your pride and not humility!!!!

So do you hear from Jesus everyday call "Today", and actually listen to what He is speaking to you personally??

If indeed a person is doing that - then the focus of the writing will be actually be turning people to Him, listening to Him, getting their teachings from Him, reasoning with Him, conversing with Him, and so they would know from Him, that He watches over all things - including the versions of the Bible. Just like He can us a person, who might not be the best, He can also use a version of the Bible which is not the best to lead people to Him. And so it becomes easily apparent that that is not that case with you, even in your short responses.

Have you not read:

Acts 2:6 And when this sound occurred, the crowd came together, and were bewildered because each one of them was hearing them speak in his own language.

The devote hear Him in their own language!! So why did you write "dependence on Yahweh"? Is your language old Hebrew - or was it done to puff yourself up?

Do you not know that very few of the common translations use the word "Yahweh" in them. One if the NLT:

Exodus 6:2 And God said to Moses, “I am Yahweh—‘the LORD.'

And it is interesting to note that the New Living Translation was designed intentionally as a very poor word for word translation, but rather was designed to be a very easy to read Bible for newer believers. So, it is often given out to newer believers and younger believers.

Another, more recent version, the LSB version would be a more word for word "English" translation, but it was design and promoted to "seeks to be a window into the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek." That is a contradictory statement!! Are they writing an "English", or a " Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek" translation? It seems they couldn't make up their mind!!

I suspect they too didn't read and understand:

Acts 2:6 And when this sound occurred, the crowd came together, and were bewildered because each one of them was hearing them speak in his own language.

When the Lord actually speaks to me, He does not go around saying, "I am Yahway"!!! Now it did point out to me that Jesus is the Lord, and the Word of God! Or did you not read:

1 Cor 12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed”; and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

or

Ex 3:15 God, furthermore, said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is My name forever, and this is My memorial-name to all generations.

Too many people get 'religious' so they lean on their understanding of the Bible instead of actually listening to the Lord!! So many have failed to understand the Jesus Christ is the Word of God and He is the KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS, per both the Bible and ,more importantly, per the Holy Spirit!!!

So they might read and study the Bible/Scriptures, and fail to get a revelation of who Jesus Christ is!!!

Maybe these verses will help you, but they won't if you don't actually seek Him and what He says to you via His Holy Spirit speaking to your spirit!! Because understanding still comes from His mouth and not your brain!! Never-the-less, perhaps you should read these verse and actually seek Him!!

Gal 3:1,2 You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified?
This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

Gal 3:39 - 41 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life. “I do not receive glory from men;

Jn 1:1,2 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.

Rev 19:13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

Rev 19:16 And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”

Gen 15:1 After these things the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision, saying,
“Do not fear, Abram, I am a shield to you; Your reward shall be very great.”
Gen 15:2 Abram said, “O Lord GOD, what will You give me,

Ps 2:6 “But as for Me, I have installed My King
Upon Zion, My holy mountain.”

Jn 16: 14,15 “He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you.
“All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.

Rev 22:13 “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”

Though all the above and more are written in the Bible, people still don't understand that His Father was pleased to give all things to the Son, and so place the Son on the Throne, even as the LORD OF LORDS AND KING OF KINGS - even so the every word of God is given to the Son, so that if you indeed hear from God at anytime, the words of God you heard belong to the Son, because the Father gave them to Him, and that to glorify Him - the annotated One who is on the throne of God!! So you have never ever heard from His Father, except through Him!!!

Mat 11:27 “All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.

So because you don't listen, you don't understand that Jesus Christ, the Word of God, is the Yahweh (the Lord our God). You don't understand that it was the One we call Jesus Christ, who as the Word of God, spoke to Moses!! He did so out of the fire, with those devote early Christians in Acts hear in their own language - but you write "Yahweh" (a Hebrew word) because you don't hear Him in your own language! So are you not like those who were saying "They were full of sweet wine"

Acts 2:13 But others were mocking and saying, “They are full of sweet wine.”

Still - He is there so even if you, or anyone, was to repent and open up to Him and actually seek Him and what He has to say, He would eat with you and you with Him. You would start hearing Him and everyday called Today, if you sought Him everyday!!

Then you would get understanding, just like it is written:

Prov 2:6 For the LORD gives wisdom;
From His mouth come knowledge and understanding.

Yet even if I or someone else was to write you another Bible from Him, you still would not seek Him!! So the Bible we have is enough to give a person the wisdom they need to seek Him, but not all will seek Him even after reading their Bible!! Or did you not also read:

2 Tim 3:6 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

The Scriptures " are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.", but that does not mean they did!! Many are still searching the Scriptures thinking in them they have eternal life instead of seeking Him, and listening to Him by faith!!

It is not hard to seek who they are! They preach the Scriptures He had written to lead us to Him, instead of Him!!

So they never heard, like I heard, the His Holy Spirit explain to them, like He did me:

"Karl, we don't use the Lord to preach the Scriptures, we use the Scriptures to preach the Lord!"

And that is what you are doing. You are using the Scriptures He gave us, to preach the Scriptures He gave us. You should be using the Scriptures He gave us to help point people to Him and getting them to listen to Him!! The reason you preach the Scriptures is because of your pride you don't seek Him!! Inside you are thinking that you are wiser than He is, so you don't seek Him, but preach the Scriptures! If you were a humble man like Moses, you would seek Him, because you would clearly understand that He is soooooooooo much wiser than you. And with that understanding you would make it about everyone coming to seeking Him and what He says to them personally!!

And ironically, you think that my pointing people to Him, and trying get people to listen to Him is because of my pride. It is because I know Him and know that everyone needs to seek Him who will speak to them in their own language!!!

 

[Karl Peters]

I think our disconnect is larger than the Grand Canyon.

The above is the feeling I get when I discuss hearing from the Lord and try to discuss it with Christians who are making it about Scriptures instead of actually knowing the Lord our God, Jesus Christ, like the Scriptures tells to.

There is a huge difference between actually walking and talking with the Lord and leaning on our understanding of the Scriptures!!

Knowing Him is know a person, even the Son of God, and leaning on our own understanding of the Bible is trying to know a book, the Bible.

If you know Him, you wake up in the morning and say "Good morning, Lord", and hear a response because He is always with you. And because He is a person, even the Word of God, you are not going to know exactly what He is going to say until He speaks with that small voice of His. He might tell me to get up because we have a lot to do. He might start a teaching. He might tell me a joke. And He might talk to me about a Scripture, but all the other possibilities are just as likely, because He is a person and not the Book!

Oh, the first words He told me were, "Read Your Bible", and just a couple years into knowing Him He asked me to open up a Christian bookstore for Him. And He had me work in lots of different ministries for Him during my 25 years since He came into my life. Yet if was never about the Book, the Christian bookstore, the healing ministry, the hospital visitation ministry, or any of the other ministries he had me help in. It was always about the relationship He and I had. It was about us walking and talking together, and we talked more about my son and his soccer teams, than we every talked about any of the other things. We talked about what I should buy, what to wear, what to improve upon, what I needed to do for my wife, and things like that!

Yeah, we spent lots of time talking about things in the Bible, but He didn't just make the Bible for teaching us. He made all things so He could use them to teach us/me. By talking to Him you can find out that He doesn't like Harry Potter nor Star Wars, because it give people the wrong impressions. He is not a "Force" as some impersonal thing that holds things together. He is a person, The Lord of lords and King of kings, and He hold all things are held together. His Father wanted it that way, so it is that way. And we can walk and talk with Him.

So He will tell you things like: "Can 1500 pages tell you all the things I need to discuss with you?"

Of course not. We need to talk to Him about all the things in our lives!! And our lives are made up of a whole lot more than what those 1500 pages can cover!!

The prideful person won't discuss with Him all the things in their lives. They might try to become the 'expert' on the Bible to puff themselves up. But that is not going to bring them any closer to God! Indeed, even walking and talking with Him will only bring you a small bit closer to understanding all about God. But what it will do it make you aware that; us being a person does not make it possible to understand the depths of God. Indeed if you talk to Him a bit, you will find out that even He does not consider understanding the depths of God something to be achieved. He in fact, understands that so well that He does and says only what His Father tells Him to this day.

So when you talk to Him, you get the words His Father gives to Him for us! You can read about that in the Bible, but you will never get even a little idea of it, until you get to know Him. So if anyone wants understanding, they want Him and the words He has for them, and not their own understanding!

I remember when He told me, "Karl, Understanding is understanding that I Am Understanding, understand?"

You can read about it in the Bible, but understanding that He is Understanding comes from listening to what comes out His mouth to you personally.

Prov 7:4 Say to wisdom, “You are my sister,”
And call understanding your intimate friend;

Wisdom is a name for the Holy Spirit, who brings us His words of wisdom, but if you want understanding you want to walk and talk back and forth with Him, via His Holy Spirit!

Prov 2:6 For the LORD gives wisdom;
From His mouth come knowledge and understanding.

You see, the Lord sends us His Holy Spirit with His words, and His words are the words of the Father (knowledge), who gave them to Him, Therefore the LORD gives us the Holy Spirit and from His mouth come the words of the Father, and which the Son has! That is why God is One God, because the Holy Spirit does not speak on His own but He takes the words of God from the Son you owns them, because the Father gave them to Him, in order to glorify Him.

Yet it doesn't take long to know if a person actually knows Him or not. A person wanting to make it about His name being Yahweh instead of Lord or the Lord our God, doesn't know Him! Do you not know that "Yahweh is translated as "Lord" in most modern translations"? And it is a Hebrew word, so if you read Lord in the New Testament it wasn't from Yahweh, was it?

Before I knew the Lord I had never talked to a Jehovah Witness, but since knowing Him I regularly wind up talking to them. He will tell me to get some gas for my car, when I don't really need much and wind up talking to a Jehovah Witness about actually hearing Him personally and getting to know Him as Lord, but I have not yet found a single one of them who hears from Him. Yet the use Jehovah, which is a latinized version of "YHWH" or Yahweh. But they don't want to call the Lord Yahweh, so they call Him by the latinized version Jehovah, and all that is appropriate because He in not their Lord, because they don't know Him, listen to Him, get instructions from Him, nor know Him as their friend! They don't know Understanding, nor have understanding in their life! So the following verse does not apply to them:

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

They fail to realize and understand the significant of what they do, because they don't understand that He is Understanding! And the thing is, that He will laugh at them!

Ps 2:4 He who sits in the heavens laughs, The Lord scoffs at them.

That does not mean He doesn't send me to try and help them seek Him, but they won't! I can tell them plainly, and go over it over and over, but they still will not seek Him and try to listen to Him - and that is because of their spiritual pride!

And it of course is not just them! It does seem like a great chasm separates me and them. I can throw them a rope, but they can't grab it. I can tell them that the Lord is their to speak to them, but they can't believe in Him. We might agree that God is always with us, but they can't even imagine they He might talk to them personally! I can quote them chapter and verse, but they can't accept my testimony.

So if someone writes: "I think our disconnect is larger than the Grand Canyon." I understand that. Between heaven and hell there is a great chasm. If is cause because of a difference in belief, and faith comes from hearing Him! I hear from Him everyday called Today, so I believe in Him. Note only does He tell me great things like, "Karl, I love you", but I have seen Him do hundreds of miracles around me. I have had Him seen light rain on me three times on cloudless days. I have had Him take me out of my body and tell me, "Karl, do you think I can take you anywhere I want", while I was looking and the top of my head. I have been kiss by a greenish colored cloud. I have had so many things does around me, that I can not deny Him. Yet I tell you truly, it was not about any of those things either, it was always about just walking and talking with Him Today!

It's about the relationship that we can have with Jesus Christ our Lord, and not about calling Him Yahweh or Jehovah. Better to just call Him Lord, and hear Him call you, His friend! But that means actually listening to Him, right?

Yeah - there is a great chasm between us.

 

[Spyder]

The above is the feeling I get when I discuss hearing from the Lord and try to discuss it with Christians who are making it about Scriptures instead of actually knowing the Lord our God, Jesus Christ, like the Scriptures tells to.

Yeah - there is a great chasm between us.

But, I am very happy that there is not a chasm between me and Yahweh or between me and Yeshua.

The word Lord was used for so many people back when the manuscripts were written. The interlinear bibles show that God's name Yahweh was used. It was man who chose to hide His name from bible readers. It had gotten to the point that the people reading their bibles see the word Lord as being both Yahweh and Yeshua - in support of a doctrine mandated on the early church.

One day, I hope the chasm disappears.

 

[Karl Peters]

But, I am very happy that there is not a chasm between me and Yahweh or between me and Yeshua.

The word Lord was used for so many people back when the manuscripts were written. The interlinear bibles show that God's name Yahweh was used. It was man who chose to hide His name from bible readers. It had gotten to the point that the people reading their bibles see the word Lord as being both Yahweh and Yeshua - in support of a doctrine mandated on the early church.

One day, I hope the chasm disappears.

So what did you actually hear Him tell you already Today?

I know He was talking to me a bit Today about my business. He got me up, telling me that I needed to get going because I was running a bit behind. Yet He also told me not to worry when I was running about 5 minutes late to a place I get my inventory, because He was having me go in on an extra day, so they were not concerned about me getting their on-time. He also told me to also come back the next day, because they asked and they had a lot they needed to sell, and they were depending on me to get most of their overstock. So I committed to coming back the next day, like He asked me. Of course none of that has to do with much in the Bible - except you have also read that if we seek first the Kingdom of God, all that we needed would be provided - and you know that He is the King in the Kingdom of God, right?

So on the way back He told me how He wanted me to adjust my little warehouse to accommodate the increase in inventory He was giving me, alone with a reminder that He had already told me that He was going to have me get some file boxes, which I used to file my inventory of that type.

And you have perhaps also read:

Is 30:21 Your ears will hear a word behind you, “This is the way, walk in it,” whenever you turn to the right or to the left.

And you have also read about how He like to guide your steps, and how He leads His sheep out with His voice, too right?

Ps 44:18 Our heart has not turned back, And our steps have not deviated from Your way,

Yet, amazingly you are concerned with people being mislead because they have the wrong version of the Bible??? And you write the Bible is where we start, and things like that???

We must diligently search for truth, and the Bible is the primary resource, not the only one.

No, the bible is where we start.

How is not Jesus Christ, The Lord or God (Yahweh in Hebrew) not consider the place where we start by you? And How is it you don't understand the Jesus Christ is the Truth and our primarily source?

Are you sure there is not a great chasm between you and Him?

I mean - how come you are not pointing people to Him, since you suggest that He is with you?

 

[Karl Peters]

It had gotten to the point that the people reading their bibles see the word Lord as being both Yahweh and Yeshua - in support of a doctrine mandated on the early church.

Jesus goes by a lot of names, all of which describe Him!

Is 9:6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Yet if you get a Bible and read it, and you are an American, did they not write that Bible is English/American for you?

Yeshua and Yahweh were said to a people who spoke Old Hebrew, not English nor the American version of English. So for me personally, I like the NASB (New American Standard Bible), but I am find with reading others in English also. I also have interlinear Bible where it has the English and Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic next to it. Just in case I want to do a bit of heavier studying, or He askes me to.

Yet if I go to church I call Him (that child born to us) Jesus Christ or perhaps the Lord, or the Lord our God, or perhaps Might God. I often point out that He is named "The Word of God", because He asks me to preach the Word of God, but not as it is so often preach Today! He wants me to preach Him as the Word of God!

Rev 19:13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

Apparently John wrote that, even the last book in the Bible, with the revelation that His name is called The Word of God, because that was still a revelation to many!! And it still seems to be a revelation to many Today also, because so many Christian think the Bible and not Him as the Word of God!

They obviously were people what they thought was "in support of a doctrine mandated on the early church." Buy that is why John wrote to the early church explaining the revelation that Jesus Christ (Yeshua if you happen to have Old Hebrew as your language) was the Word of God! That is His name!! So His actually name is not really Yeshua (God's salvation), or Yahweh (The Lord our God if your language is Old Hebrew). But rather His name is called "The Word of God"!! That does not mean we don't often call Him our Saviour (Jesus), or our Lord (Yahweh), or even Eternal Father, Mighty God, Wonderful Counselor, or Prince of Peace, also. He is all those things, but He is named the Word of God, because His sheep hear His voice and He has the words of God for us personally!!

So what about the person whose language is American or English, but wants to go around calling Him Yeshua, or Yahweh?

Are they not just trying to puff themselves up as some kind of religious expert? Is it not clear that they really don't understand that He is the One His Father made all things through? Is it not clear that they don't understand that His Father put Him on the throne over all things! Is it not clear that they don't understand that the saying, The Lord our God (Yahweh) actually refers to The Word of God, who we usually call Jesus Christ, because we are saved by faith in Him and faith comes from actually hearing Him, right?

Rom 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

So we are saved because we hear from Him whose name is called the Word of God and believe it is Him (the Lord our God) who is talking to us!!

Gen 15:1 After these things the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision, saying,
“Do not fear, Abram, I am a shield to you; Your reward shall be very great.”

Gen 15:2 Abram said, “O Lord GOD, what will You give me, since I am childless, and the heir of my house is Eliezer of Damascus?”

Now in the above verse "Lord God" will show as Jehovah in an interlinear translation, but only because religious people sometimes do not want to use Yahweh, because that is consider too Sacred!! But regardless, Lord God in English is Yahweh, or the Jehovah substitute name for Yahweh. and He is 'the word of the Lord who came to Abram in a vision saying!! So He is the One whose name is called The Word of God and so is the One whose robe is dipped in blood, and is the KING OF KINGS AND LORD OR LORDS! And He is the One, the Son of God, who we also call Jesus, because like Abram, we hear Him talk to us and believe! That belief is counted as righteousness to us!

Gen 15:6 Then he believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.

But those puffed up religious people don't know Him!! So they turn people to the things of God (like the Bible) instead of using the things of God to turn people to the Lord our God!! And the Holy Spirit always tells us the Jesus Christ is Lord!!!

1 Cor 12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed”; and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

And if indeed He is the Lord your God, then you are hearing from Him personally, and getting teachings and instructions, and more from Him!!! So we don't point people to the Bible, but we use the Bible to point people to Him!! And that is not what I see from many who post here!

And Spyder has it so wrong, when he writes: "It had gotten to the point that the people reading their bibles see the word Lord as being both Yahweh and Yeshua"!!!

Abram didn't read the Bible, because it had not been written, but he knew Jesus Christ as both the word of the Lord (Word of God) and Yahweh (The Lord God) - yet Spyder does not have that revelation!!! So how did he miss it, even though He claims to know the Bible?

 

[Spyder]

Jesus goes by a lot of names, all of which describe Him!

Is 9:6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us;
And the government will rest on His shoulders;
And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Yet if you get a Bible and read it, and you are an American, did they not write that Bible is English/American for you?

Yeshua and Yahweh were said to a people who spoke Old Hebrew, not English nor the American version of English. So for me personally, I like the NASB (New American Standard Bible), but I am find with reading others in English also. I also have interlinear Bible where it has the English and Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic next to it. Just in case I want to do a bit of heavier studying, or He askes me to.

Yet if I go to church I call Him (that child born to us) Jesus Christ or perhaps the Lord, or the Lord our God, or perhaps Might God. I often point out that He is named "The Word of God", because He asks me to preach the Word of God, but not as it is so often preach Today! He wants me to preach Him as the Word of God!

Rev 19:13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

Apparently John wrote that, even the last book in the Bible, with the revelation that His name is called The Word of God, because that was still a revelation to many!! And it still seems to be a revelation to many Today also, because so many Christian think the Bible and not Him as the Word of God!

They obviously were people what they thought was "in support of a doctrine mandated on the early church." Buy that is why John wrote to the early church explaining the revelation that Jesus Christ (Yeshua if you happen to have Old Hebrew as your language) was the Word of God! That is His name!! So His actually name is not really Yeshua (God's salvation), or Yahweh (The Lord our God if your language is Old Hebrew). But rather His name is called "The Word of God"!! That does not mean we don't often call Him our Saviour (Jesus), or our Lord (Yahweh), or even Eternal Father, Mighty God, Wonderful Counselor, or Prince of Peace, also. He is all those things, but He is named the Word of God, because His sheep hear His voice and He has the words of God for us personally!!

So what about the person whose language is American or English, but wants to go around calling Him Yeshua, or Yahweh?

Are they not just trying to puff themselves up as some kind of religious expert? Is it not clear that they really don't understand that He is the One His Father made all things through? Is it not clear that they don't understand that His Father put Him on the throne over all things! Is it not clear that they don't understand that the saying, The Lord our God (Yahweh) actually refers to The Word of God, who we usually call Jesus Christ, because we are saved by faith in Him and faith comes from actually hearing Him, right?

Rom 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

So we are saved because we hear from Him whose name is called the Word of God and believe it is Him (the Lord our God) who is talking to us!!

Gen 15:1 After these things the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision, saying,
“Do not fear, Abram, I am a shield to you; Your reward shall be very great.”

Gen 15:2 Abram said, “O Lord GOD, what will You give me, since I am childless, and the heir of my house is Eliezer of Damascus?”

Now in the above verse "Lord God" will show as Jehovah in an interlinear translation, but only because religious people sometimes do not want to use Yahweh, because that is consider too Sacred!! But regardless, Lord God in English is Yahweh, or the Jehovah substitute name for Yahweh. and He is 'the word of the Lord who came to Abram in a vision saying!! So He is the One whose name is called The Word of God and so is the One whose robe is dipped in blood, and is the KING OF KINGS AND LORD OR LORDS! And He is the One, the Son of God, who we also call Jesus, because like Abram, we hear Him talk to us and believe! That belief is counted as righteousness to us!

Gen 15:6 Then he believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.

But those puffed up religious people don't know Him!! So they turn people to the things of God (like the Bible) instead of using the things of God to turn people to the Lord our God!! And the Holy Spirit always tells us the Jesus Christ is Lord!!!

1 Cor 12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed”; and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

And if indeed He is the Lord your God, then you are hearing from Him personally, and getting teachings and instructions, and more from Him!!! So we don't point people to the Bible, but we use the Bible to point people to Him!! And that is not what I see from many who post here!

And Spyder has it so wrong, when he writes: "It had gotten to the point that the people reading their bibles see the word Lord as being both Yahweh and Yeshua"!!!

Abram didn't read the Bible, because it had not been written, but he knew Jesus Christ as both the word of the Lord (Word of God) and Yahweh (The Lord God) - yet Spyder does not have that revelation!!! So how did he miss it, even though He claims to know the Bible?

I didn't miss it. I was given the truth after a long and tortuous period of denial because of the things I was taught via proof-texts without searching the scriptures for confirmation of them.

I was not in the minority there, I was simply like most everyone else - just believing what people told me. You know, people who write things just as you do. It is easy to be part of the crowd and feel so righteous because it seems like everyone agrees with you. After all, if everyone agrees; then it must be that we know the truth, right?

Group think is a real condition. Individual study and trusting God's spirit to reveal truth does not come easy. It can be painful but, after the shock of discovering that the crown no longer accepts you because of your differing belief; you can draw closer to God is a way that you never experienced before.

I am not at all surprised by your reaction. It is very common. May God touch your life and teach you.

 

[Karl Peters]

I didn't miss it. I was given the truth after a long and tortuous period of denial because of the things I was taught via proof-texts without searching the scriptures for confirmation of them.

I was not in the minority there, I was simply like most everyone else - just believing what people told me. You know, people who write things just as you do. It is easy to be part of the crowd and feel so righteous because it seems like everyone agrees with you. After all, if everyone agrees; then it must be that we know the truth, right?

Group think is a real condition. Individual study and trusting God's spirit to reveal truth does not come easy. It can be painful but, after the shock of discovering that the crown no longer accepts you because of your differing belief; you can draw closer to God is a way that you never experienced before.

I am not at all surprised by your reaction. It is very common. May God touch your life and teach you.

It should be really easy just telling someone to talk to Jesus Christ! It should be as easy and just saying, "Talk to Jesus Christ."

But if they don't believe in Him then they don't believe they can just talk to Him!!!

In that case, because they don't really believe in Him, they often seek God in some other way. Reading the Bible and leaning on their own understanding of it is a common way of trying to know about God without actually just listening to Him by faith.

And the Jews, whose fathers were on the mountain of God when Moses took them there, said at the time "Let not God speak to us"

They did not just say, 'Lord what do you have to say, and listen to Him', but they said "Let not God speak to us" - and that is on the heart of so many people today also. The told God to speak to Moses and they would do what he said, but they lied, because Moses told them, "Hear, O Israel", and they still said in their hearts, "Let not God speak to us." So God had to give them commandments written in Stone.

So reading Moses and the other people who really did hear from the Lord was their "Group think", that was their version of "trusting God's spirit," and their version of "the truth" - and it is easy to spot who they are when seeing what they have to say.

If indeed they had trusted the Holy Spirit, they would know that He speaks to us!! Each of us personally, He speaks to us!!
But the Holy Spirit does not speak of Himself, but He talks the words of God which belong to The Word of God, who is Jesus Christ - the One who went to the cross so that His robe is dipped in blood. And they would, if they really sought Jesus Christ who sends His Holy Spirit with the words of God which He has and owns, then they would know this!! They would know that His Father has given Him all things including the very words of God!! Also including dominion over all things!! So it is Jesus Christ who is the Lord our God - or or Yahweh - if you speak Old Hebrew.

So if a person does know Jesus Christ they talk to Him and get instructions from Him in all areas of their life, and not just their study of the Bible, but that too!

So a person who truly knows, they know all this, unless perhaps they are a new believer and have not yet had a chance to discuss this and be taught this by Him. The believer walks and talks with the Lord. They know He is the truth, and not their understanding of their Bible. So they would not write foolishness like: " I was given the truth after a long and tortuous period of denial because of the things I was taught via proof-texts " - because they would know the Jesus Christ is the Truth and they would know that we are all taught of God! At least all His sheep are taught by Him, and that by listening to Him and not the Scriptures nor proof-texts!

Now being the Teacher, He has a text book, the Bible, so He will ask you to read it, but He teaches you by you listening to Him talk about the Book and not from your leaning on your own understanding, of the Scriptures or any "proof-texts". His sheep hear His voice and so we tell other to hear His voice!! He can tell them what to read, but only if they listen to Him!!

Silly people, thinking they know Him yet they don't listen to Him!!!

 

[Karl Peters]

I am not at all surprised by your reaction. It is very common. May God touch your life and teach you.

The above "prayer" is what you want of people - of course the above prayer in the context used sounds more like sarcasm.

And sadly, it is not common for others to point out that we need to actually be hearing from the Lord. The more common thing seems to be statements like:

We must diligently search for truth, and the Bible is the primary resource,

The Bible is not the primary resource in the diligent search for the truth - Jesus Christ is!! And that is what the Bible explains!!!

So how does someone miss that?

It is because they don't actually listen to God (Jesus Christ/ Yeshua for those speaking Hebrew, who is the Word of God and the Lord God /Yahweh for those speaking Hebrew)!

If they did listen to Jesus Christ then they would have come to understand that He is the Truth! And that He is always standing there waiting for us to open up to Him and listen to what He has to say. The Bible explains this, but they did not believe the Bible, thought they diligently search the Scriptures thinking in them they have eternal life.

Rev 3:20 ‘Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

Jn 5:39,40,You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

And if they don't actually believe the Bible, no matter what they say, they don't actually come to know the person, Jesus Christ! So they don't understand that He is the Truth, meaning that He is the source of all truth!

So the Bible is worth reading, but it is not the Truth, Jesus Christ is! That does not mean the Bible is not correct, but it does mean the we need to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ - and that is the truth/Truth!

So we are indeed hoping and praying inside - "May God touch your life and teach you."

And that desire and prayer results in our actions, and that being to point everyone who is anyone to Jesus Christ and the personal relationship that they can have with Him if they BELIEVE IN HIM!

We are not asking them to believe the Bible, but we are using the Bible to help convince them to seek Jesus Christ!!!

So if someone says in one way or another, that they don't believe a verse or a translation of the Bible, I don't care about that!! I will still try to convince them to actually seek and hear from Jesus Christ, and if they make a pretense of believing the Bible, that's great. because I can then use their own Bible to help point them to Him!! I do that with the Jehovah Witness whenever God has me ministering to them. They have a poor translation, but it has all I need to point out that they need to be seeking Jesus Christ and listening to Him!!

"So what did He tell you?" - I ask them!!

And I have not yet found a one of them who has heard from Him personally! Yet they are not alone in that! Christians, many Christians, are in the same position! Did I not also on this thread put that question to Spyder - yet I could not find his testimony as to that. And that is Ok, because I don't need to know what He personally talks to the Lord about, but he does. He need to know and be taught by Jesus Christ personally.

Now he does write:

My Yeshua is alive and well;

That is great, so what do you talk to Him about? Do you talk to Him about when to go to the store, how your son's soccer team is going to do, what you need to do next? Do you reason with Him, actually asking Him questions and getting responses? And what about His teaching you, do you not hear things like:

IS IT BETTER FOR CHILDREN TO ‘TALK TO’ OR ‘LISTEN TO’ THEIR FATHER?

and A MITE IS AN ANIMAL THAT GETS UNDER THE SKIN TO GET AT THE BLOOD….. KARL, THERE IS MIGHT IN THE BLOOD, BUT I WANT A CLOSER RELATIONSHIP THAN THAT.

If you still don't understand - He is all about a personal relationship with Him. Reading the Bible and being concerned about whether the translation is correct, does not give you a personal relationship with Him - talking back and forth gives you that relationship with Him! The Bible tells you that, and every translation of the Bible I have seen is plenty good enough to explain that, if you care to believe it!

Still, I see Christians holding up the Bible both physically and spiritually speaking and saying in some way or another 'I am going to preach the Word of God'. And they worry about whether the translation is good enough, and call the Bible the truth instead of Him and say the Bible is the Word of God when that is His name and so He is the Word of God we are supposed to be preaching - and that to mean He wants that His people would listen to Him!! And that is what I am preaching, per His instructions, and don't think that I got those instructions from men!! You just suppose wrong - Spyder!

He personally told me, "Karl, I want you to preach the Word, but not as it is so often preached Today. I want you to preach I AM the Word of God!" and with Him saying I AM a power hit me sending me towards the floor. Thankfully I caught myself before hitting the floor of my bathroom.

He (My Jesus) is the One who tells me to preach Him as the Word of God!! And how does the Bible read?

Jn 1:1,2 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.
Rev 19:13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.
Ps 81: 8“Hear, O My people, and I will admonish you; O Israel, if you would listen to Me!
Ps 81: 13 “Oh that My people would listen to Me, That Israel would walk in My ways!

Yeah my prayer for people is "May God touch your life and teach you." - but there is no sarcasm in that!! I truly want the to listen to Him and learn from Him, because I know personally that He wants that for everyone who is anyone!!

And don't think that some don't really hear Him! I was in a thrift store one day when a man came through preaching Jesus Christ, so I asked Him, "What did the Lord tell you Today?" He stop, though, and told me that the Lord told Him that He loved Him as he was!

It was nice to meet a man that truly knew Jesus Christ personally! The words I hear most from Him are, "Karl, I love you."

But you know what most Christians tell you on that? They say the Lord loves them and the Bible tells them so!

How sad!! The Bible might tell us that He is love, but if you have not heard Him tell you personally "I love you." Then is He your Jesus/Yeshua? And why do you worry about the translation, instead of knowing Him? And why do you want to write Yeshua instead of Jesus? Are we not writing back and forth in English and not Hebrew? And why do you not know that Jesus is the Lord our God (Yahweh)?

Did I not point out the Scriptures that points out: 1 Cor 12:3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed”; and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit tells us that Jesus Christ is the Lord, and it also tells us the He (the LORD OF LORDS) is named the Word of God (Rev 19) and that the word of the Lord (Him) came in a vision and spoke to Abram (Gen 15) and Abram called Him "Lord God" (Yahweh in Hebrew)

Gen 15:1 After these things the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision, saying, ...
Gen 15:2 Abram said, “O Lord GOD, what will You give me,

So some don't know Him as the Word, and the Lord God/Yahweh, but still say Jesus/Yeshua - but do they now Him?

Mat 7:22,23 “Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’
“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

People need to get to know Him, personally!! A pretense will not do! If you know Him, you will know He is the Lord God/Yahweh, and our Savoir/Yeshua - He is both those things!

 

[CC7799]

Good thread, and documentation.

Ezekiel chapter 28

Pride was downfall for Lucifer. Hes going into lake of fire.

Matthew chapter 18

Anedote is humility.
Repentance and submitting to God's will.

Jeremiah chapter 6.
Reprobates follow Satan.
Pride
Self worship
Vanity
Habitual liars
Deception
They use church as smoke screen. Acting pious. You can apply the term narcissist.

Ezekiel chapter 33
Wicked won't repent, and conform to God's standard. They won't accept accountability.

It reminds me of Daniel chapter 2

Were king nebukedazzer r offered Daniel gifts, and rewards.
When Satan as false Messiah comes 6th Trump to Jerusalem. Many people, including Christians, will sell out to false Messiah.
Revelation chapter 13.

Very few will make stand against antichrist. Romans chapter 11.

Pride is downfall for many people.
Galatians chapter 5

Those who walk in the flesh are reprobates.

Those who have Holy Spirit, have seal of God, revelation chapter 7.

 

[Spyder]

The Bible is not the primary resource in the diligent search for the truth - Jesus Christ is!! And that is what the Bible explains!!!

So how does someone miss that?

If they did listen to Jesus Christ then they would have come to understand that He is the Truth! And that He is always standing there waiting for us to open up to Him and listen to what He has to say. The Bible explains this, but they did not believe the Bible, thought they diligently search the Scriptures thinking in them they have eternal life.

And if they don't actually believe the Bible, no matter what they say, they don't actually come to know the person, Jesus Christ! So they don't understand that He is the Truth, meaning that He is the source of all truth!

So the Bible is worth reading, but it is not the Truth, Jesus Christ is! That does not mean the Bible is not correct, but it does mean the we need to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ - and that is the truth/Truth!

So we are indeed hoping and praying inside - "May God touch your life and teach you."

And that desire and prayer results in our actions, and that being to point everyone who is anyone to Jesus Christ and the personal relationship that they can have with Him if they BELIEVE IN HIM!

We are not asking them to believe the Bible, but we are using the Bible to help convince them to seek Jesus Christ!!!

I suppose who both speak English, but you use words differently from my uses. When I say "primary" you seem to take that to mean "only." That is not how I use the word primary, Perhaps I should have said "initial?"

Still I see many people of the "the bible is the truth" group who cannot validate most of the doctrines that their organized religion dictates as "the truth." That serves as a great indicator that these same people do not know what their bibles say. They can, however, point to the proof-texts that they have been given to validate their doctrines and become upset when are faced with the passages that they have never seen before. Then, when told to ask God to clarify what to believe, they get irritates at the person who suggests that they let God teach them instead.

This matter of believing that God said that HE will give us truth is upsetting to those who are armed with the listed proof-texts and desire to hold the doctrines that they have been taught despite the conflicting passages that need to be considered. None are so blind than they who will not see.

 

[Karl Peters]

Still I see many people of the "the bible is the truth" group who cannot validate most of the doctrines that their organized religion dictates as "the truth." That serves as a great indicator that these same people do not know what their bibles say. They can, however, point to the proof-texts that they have been given to validate their doctrines and become upset when are faced with the passages that they have never seen before. Then, when told to ask God to clarify what to believe, they get irritates at the person who suggests that they let God teach them instead.

This matter of believing that God said that HE will give us truth is upsetting to those who are armed with the listed proof-texts and desire to hold the doctrines that they have been taught despite the conflicting passages that need to be considered. None are so blind than they who will not see.

You might as well say "ALL" - people of the 'bible is the truth' group cannot validate all their doctrines!!!!

Theology is men's understanding of God! And Paul was chained up with two chains!

But what does that mean? We all have a corporate 'theology' - the theology of the group. And we all have our personal theology (understanding of God)! While we are people with our own understanding, so we are all going to have our understanding of God (our theology), it is our understanding that tends to chain up the man of God. Or did we not read:

Prov 3:5-7 Trust in the LORD with all your heart
And do not lean on your own understanding.
In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He will make your paths straight.
Do not be wise in your own eyes;
Fear the LORD and turn away from evil.

Therefore we Christians, out of all people and groups of people, should understand that it is not about the "many people of the "the bible is the truth" group "! It is instead about all people and groups seeking Jesus Christ and listening to Him!!

So it that our understanding - out theology? Or are we saying, when we take time to actually look at what we are saying, to lean on our own understanding as opposed to seeking The Lord our God, Jesus Christ, and listening to Him?

Is it not written that He is the truth? So why even bring up 'the "the bible is the truth" group'. They are wrong because they are leaning on their own understanding (theology) instead of hearing what the Lord has to say to them! And you can tell it by the fact they are not actually leading other people to seeking Jesus Christ as the Word of God, meaning LISTEN TO HIM - like His Father said!

And so they are the ones into pride, that they lean on their own understanding instead of seek Jesus Christ and listening to Him! And that is why we find "the bible is the truth". They are making an idol out of their Bible and setting their understanding above 'trusting in the LORD with their heart'! Therefore, because of their pride, they are not even doing what is written in the Bible, but are just pretending obedience!!

Ps 81:15 “Those who hate the LORD would pretend obedience to Him,
And their time of punishment would be forever.


Now on a side note: I personally also don't find it that easy to seek Jesus Christ and listen to Him. It takes me reminded me that is what I need to do, and everyday call Today! And is that not the reason it is written:

Heb 3:12-15 Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God.
But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called “Today,” so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.
For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,
while it is said,
“TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,
DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS, AS WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME.”

So while Christians are indeed grafted into the Jewish root, were they not part of those who said:

Exodus 20:19 Then they said to Moses, “Speak to us yourself and we will listen; but let not God speak to us, or we will die.”

So even from then, the Jews did not want to listen to God but preferred what Moses had to say. Are we not going to learn the lesson from the textbook (The Bible) God provided? How long will we continue to harden our hearts and provoke the Lord?

 

[Spyder]

So even from then, the Jews did not want to listen to God but preferred what Moses had to say. Are we not going to learn the lesson from the textbook (The Bible) God provided? How long will we continue to harden our hearts and provoke the Lord?

I have discovered that many who have attained their understanding of scripture from pamphlet of proof-texts will refuse to examine ALL scripture and ask God to give conviction of truth. We don't know who Yahweh may have already hardened from understanding, but I know there are those who are hearing God's call to study - releasing their defiant egos - and allowing God to teaching them through His Son.
As for those who can't bring themselves to examine for themselves, I have no idea what God has in His plan for them.

 

[Karl Peters]

I have discovered that many who have attained their understanding of scripture from pamphlet of proof-texts will refuse to examine ALL scripture and ask God to give conviction of truth. We don't know who Yahweh may have already hardened from understanding, but I know there are those who are hearing God's call to study - releasing their defiant egos - and allowing God to teaching them through His Son.
As for those who can't bring themselves to examine for themselves, I have no idea what God has in His plan for them.

"Conviction of truth"?

If we look at the Scriptures they tell us the Jesus Christ is there to talk to us! And He is the truth!

And while His Holy Spirit with convicts us for not doing what is right - not hearing Him is what is not right!

And while He is probably going to ask a person to read the Bible, and indeed "Read Your Bible" were His first words I heard spoken to me, it was never about the Bible but about listening to Him! So is the "conviction of truth "God's call to study", or God call to listen to Jesus Christ????

I tell you - it is God's call to listen to the Son of God who the Father made King and Lord over all things!!!

So it is "Hear, O Isreal" that is the foremost command - but some are still thinking it is "God's call to study" that is the important thing? Thereby showing they didn't study and they are the ones " understanding of scripture from pamphlet of proof-texts will refuse to examine ALL scripture" They didn't even come to know that the Holy Spirit convicts us for not listening to Him!

Yeah - He told me "Read Your Bible", but it said:

Deut 6:4 “Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!

and

Deut 5:1 Then Moses summoned all Israel and said to them: “Hear, O Israel, the statutes and the ordinances which I am speaking today in your hearing, that you may learn them and observe them carefully.

And do you not read the "that you may learn them" part? So, to learn and observe the statutes and the ordinances you have to "Hear, O Isreal", but they were not willing to listen!! So the conviction is about not listening!! Yet the Pharisees made it about not studying! And that type of person is still doing that "Today" --- which is the very day that you are supposed to be hearing from Him!!

Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit says,

Heb 3:7,8 “TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,
DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS AS WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME,
AS IN THE DAY OF TRIAL IN THE WILDERNESS,

And do we not read "DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS" - so quit blaming God for people hearts being hardened!!

He may have harden the heart of Pharoah for a reason, but His people harden their hearts against hearing Him themselves!!! And we posting on a Christian forum, are we not?

So we "Christians" need to listen to Him, because that is the foremost command!! And that is the command the Holy Spirit will convict you on. We should know better than to not listen to Him, should we not?

Mark 12:29 Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD;

And if a Christian has been listening to the Lord on those days called Today, did they not quickly discover that the Lord is about you entire life and not just the Sacred Writings?????????

How do you not know that He will help you decide what church to go to, what store to go to, what things to get, and even what steps to take next?

Your life is so so so much more than studying the Bible and the line upon line of text there. That, at best, is just a small part of you entire life!

And so the following verse was written to those not willing to listen to Him:

Is 28:12,13 He who said to them, “Here is rest, give rest to the weary,”
And, “Here is repose,” but they would not listen.
So the word of the LORD to them will be,
“Order on order, order on order,
Line on line, line on line,
A little here, a little there,”
That they may go and stumble backward, be broken, snared and taken captive.

Just like explained above - If you don't listen the word of the Lord to you will be those orderly lines of text that you study a little here and there as opposed to walking and talking with Him you said He would never leave you!

Yeah - as the Teacher, He will have you read and will discuss the text with you, but did you not read where He is the Wonderful counselor, Mighty God, Prince of Peace? Did you not read about reasoning with Him. How about Him guiding your steps? Or hearing a voice talking to you whenever you turn to the right of to the left. He is about your entire life, not just those orderly lines of text!!

So if I come across a person who consistently makes it about the text instead of hearing the Lord, what then applies to them?

Did they not read how the Satan tempted Jesus?

Mat 4:3,4 And the tempter came and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.”
But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE, BUT ON EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD.’”

Or perhaps the Lord has not yet gone over those couple of verses with you yet?

Moses brought the Law down in the desert, and it was written in stone. So that devil was trying to get Jesus, even the Christ, to survive by those stones given in the desert instead of listening to every word that comes from the mouth of God who is always with you!!!!

The Word of God we preach is not the Scriptures given thousands of years ago, but it is listening to Him who is always near you!!!

He is near you when you get up. He is near you when you take a shower. He is near you when you drive to work or school. He is near you in the store, in the church, while visiting friend, while dealing with enemies, and while taking every single step you will take Today!!

So the Holy Spirit is not about convicting you about your study, but maybe that also: The Holy Spirit is about convicting you about not seek Him and listening to Him Today!

That is the

conviction of truth

 

[Spyder]

Why do I get the feeling that you are attempting to say that I am don't understand using scripture and God's spirit in order to know truth?

I do get the impression that you negate the scripture resource and know truth without including it in your studies.

By the way, Deu 6:4 actually says "Hear Israel, Yahweh is our God; Yahweh is the only God."

Since we don't appear to be talking to each other clearly, I suppose I'll let it go for now.