tailgator
Well-Known Member
The first fruits are the first redeemed from the ground.
Being redeemed from earth(ghay)is to be brought back from the soil.
Hal Lindsay And Time LaHaye Were Deceived
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Being redeemed from earth(ghay)is to be brought back from the soil.
The Light
Well-Known Member
The great tribulation of those days cannot begin until that AOD is set up, so forget about the last 2000 years. That is tribulation, but not the great tribulation.
Here is the great tribulation in Revelation 14
Rev 14
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
The great tribulation is when believers are killed.
The wrath of God is when God punishes the unbelieving world.
I'm not sure why you cannot grasp this Biblical FACT.
tailgator
Well-Known Member
The first fruits are the first redeemed from the ground.
Being redeemed from earth(ghay)is to be brought back from the soil
The Light
Well-Known Member
tailgator
Well-Known Member
False,christians being killed in Israel is not great tribulation.It wasn't 2000 years ago and it won't be next year.
The great tribulation takes place in a few years when the United states armed forces nuke the entire middle east from Iran to Egypt.The heavens departing as a scroll being rolled together and all the pestilence that goes with it.
tailgator
Well-Known Member
Having been beheaded for their witness of jesus and then coming up out of the soil is the first resurection.
"This is the first resurrection."
Revelation 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
The text in the kjv version is "tribulation of those days". Not after the "great tribulation of those days". Meaning most of the great tribulation is over, but not all of it. The 7th vial of God's wrath still remains when the sixth seal event initiates. I show the 7th vial poured out on my chart at the end of the 45 days.
Matthew 24:
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:We both agree that verse 29 is the sixth seal event.
The 45 days is critical and key to understanding the 1335th day and 1290 days of Daniel 12:11-12.
the sixth seal initiates - then the sign of the Son of man appears in heaven, Jesus sickle in hand - sends terror into the wicked on earth - reaction is the kings of the earth gather their armies for 45 days at Armageddon to prepare to make war on Jesus and his army.
Without the 45 days, the kings of the earth have no time to gather their armies to make war on Jesus and His army. FACT. right in the text...
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
The 5 months of the flesh tormenting locust creatures of the first woe is a separate topic.
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The Light
Well-Known Member
Who said anything about Israel?
Rev 12
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
The dragon goes after the seed of the woman, the twelve tribes across the earth. They keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
The Light
Well-Known Member
The Light
Well-Known Member
The 7th seal lasts for one year.
150 days of this is the stinging by locusts.
So the 45 days cannot be what you claim.
Check
Jesus returns at the 6th seal for a harvests.
Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
The 7th seal is the wrath of God. Wrath last for one year. You 45 days will not work.
They have almost a year as the wrath of God last one year.
There is nothing in scripture that says that the 45 days has anything to do with the gathering of troops. Douggg just thought of this without scriptural proof. And denies the scriptural proof that has been provided showing that he is wrong.
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No, the kings of the earth don't begin to gather their armies at Armageddon until after the sixth vial near the end of the great tribulation, but before the seventh vial the last vial of the great tribulation.
Revelation 16
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
There is the scriptural proof as I show on my chart. You don't have any charts, showing how everything relates to each other. If you tried to make one, you would discover for yourself how you are misunderstanding how everything relates to each other.
The 6th Seal with the Revelation 6:14-17 verses IS THE SAME EVENT AS Revelation 19:11-21 wIth Jesus' 2nd coming on a white horse with His army from Heaven!
It is the same timing as the Scripture I had already showed...
Revelation 6:14-17,
6th Seal - time of the FINAL 7TH VIAL when God's Wrath is poured out.
Revelation 16:17,
7th Vial - time of the FINAL 7TH VIAL when God's cup of Wrath is poured out.
Revelation 11:15,
7th Trumpet - time when all the kingdoms of this world become those of The Father and His Son.
All... of those above events are LAST DAY OF THIS WORLD TIMING, the day of Christ's coming to gather His faithful Church on the "day of the Lord"!
I take personal offense by this Thread being moved... to the Unorthodox Doctrine Forum.
If my posts are going to be SINGLED OUT because they teach Bible Scripture that is against man's false Pre-trib Rapture theory, then ALL... THREADS that contain the PRE-TRIB RAPTURE THEORY should ALSO be moved to the Unorthodox Doctrine Forum!
And I do NOT see the Administrators bothering to move all the MANY threads that push man's false Pre-trib Rapture theory to this Unorthodox Doctrine Forum.
But that's alright, by such an action as the Administrators have done on this Forum, it reveals this Forum is BIASED towards man's FALSE Pre-trib Rapture theory, and that it does NOT really care about what is ACTUALLY WRITTEN IN GOD'S WORD.
AND THAT MEANS SOMEONE LIKE MYSELF WHO STAYS WITH BIBLE SCRIPTURE AS WRITTEN, IS NOT WANTED HERE, NOR DO I BELONG TO THIS KIND OF FORUM, WHICH REPRESENTS A BETH-AVEN (HOUSE OF VANITY).
If my posts are going to be SINGLED OUT because they teach Bible Scripture that is against man's false Pre-trib Rapture theory, then ALL... THREADS that contain the PRE-TRIB RAPTURE THEORY should ALSO be moved to the Unorthodox Doctrine Forum!
And I do NOT see the Administrators bothering to move all the MANY threads that push man's false Pre-trib Rapture theory to this Unorthodox Doctrine Forum.
But that's alright, by such an action as the Administrators have done on this Forum, it reveals this Forum is BIASED towards man's FALSE Pre-trib Rapture theory, and that it does NOT really care about what is ACTUALLY WRITTEN IN GOD'S WORD.
AND THAT MEANS SOMEONE LIKE MYSELF WHO STAYS WITH BIBLE SCRIPTURE AS WRITTEN, IS NOT WANTED HERE, NOR DO I BELONG TO THIS KIND OF FORUM, WHICH REPRESENTS A BETH-AVEN (HOUSE OF VANITY).
The Light
Well-Known Member
The Light
Well-Known Member
First off, there will be a rapture of the Church before the great tribulation.
That said, I see no reason to move this thread to another forum.
The Light
Well-Known Member
Absolutely not. There is not one shred of evidence that supports such a claim
Your claim is impossible. The 6th seal event is the gathering from heaven and earth. It is a rapture. It is not Armageddon.
Neither the 7th trumpet nor the 7th vial can happen until the 7th seal is opened so it cannot be the 6th seal event. Additionally, the 7th trumpet and 7th vial cannot happen until the 6 trumpets and 6 vials of God's wrath occurs.
The Church is already in heaven before the seals are opened. The 70th week of Daniel is about the people of Daniel, which is why those that get victory over the beast are singing the song of Moses in Revelation 15...........which of course is before the 7th vial.
The 6th seal is the end of the age and the end of the tribulation. Then the 7th seal is opened and the wrath of God begins.
Additionally, your beliefs have the Church going through the wrath of God. Believers are not appointed to wrath.
1 Thes 5
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
None of your claims are Biblical. Nor are they logical.
That's not what God's Word says. Jesus showed in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 that His coming to gather His Church is AFTER... the tribulation. And that is a DIRECT type statement by Jesus, not a parable.
Absolutely YES the 6th Seal and Rev.19 with Jesus' coming are BOTH about the SAME timing of His future return to this earth, coming to gather His Church on the LAST DAY of this world.
It is also the 7th Trumpet timing, and the 7th Vial timing, both aligned with the 6th Seal and Rev.19 with Jesus' coming on the "day of the Lord".
The "day of the Lord" according to Apostle Peter, is when God's "consuming fire" will burn man's works off this earth which ABSOLUTELY MEANS THE LAST DAY OF THIS WORLD!
Your claims are from MEN'S DOCTRINES and not from Bible Scripture as written.
Man's false Pre-trib Rapture theory constantly abuses Apostle Paul's 1 Thess.5:9 verse where he said we are not appointed to wrath, when Paul was talking about the FINAL DAY OF THIS WORLD WHEN THE 7TH VIAL OF GOD'S CUP OF WRATH IS POURED OUT UPON THOSE WHO WILL BE SAYING, "Peace and safety"...
1 Thess 5:1-9
5 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that aught be written unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 When they are saying, "Peace and safety", then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall in no wise escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief:
5 for ye are all sons of light, and sons of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness;
6 so then let us not sleep, as do the rest, but let us watch and be sober.
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night: and they that are drunken are drunken in the night.
8 But let us, since we are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for a helmet, the hope of salvation.
9 For God appointed us not into wrath, but unto the obtaining of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
ASV
Rev 16:15-20
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And He gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, "It is done."
18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
KJV
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