Hal Lindsay And Time LaHaye Were Deceived

[tailgator]

Ezekiel 39:28 is referring to the Jews still scatted in the nations when Jesus returns. It is the same as Matthew 24:31. It is not a resurrection event. But Jews gathered out of the nations in their natural bodies to the land of Israel.

Differently, Peter, Paul, Daniel will have their bodies resurrected to be part of the rapture/resurrection event that will take place before the great tribulation begins. When Jesus returns, they will be a part of the bride of Christ coming with Jesus back to earth, in Revelation 19.

Peter,Paul and Daniel are scattered in the nations

They are gathered back into the land of Israel when Christ comes and gathers Israel back into the land of Israel.
Peter ,Paul and Daniel will be resurected in Ezekiel 37 when Israel is brought up out of their graves


Ezekiel 37
12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

13 And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.






Or do you say Peter,Paul and Daniel will not come up out of their graves as Ezekiel describes?

 

[Douggg]

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The term one end of heaven to the other, does not mean heaven where God's throne is. But is a figure of speech meaning the most distant lands. The same type of wording is used in Deuteronomy 30:4.

Deuteronomy 30:
1 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,

2 And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;

3 That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.

4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:

5 And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.

6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

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Ezekiel 39:28 is Matthew 24:31 - fulfilling the promise God made in Deuteronomy 30:1-6

The vision Ezekiel was presented in Ezekiel 37 of the valley of dry bones was symbolic of Israel becoming a nation again in the land of Israel. No longer two nations of north and south, but one unite nation - which was fulfilled in May 14, 1948.

The part of Ezekiel 37 about the messiah being their king is still yet to be fulfilled - but will be fulfilled when Jesus returns.

 

[tailgator]

Ezekiel 39:28 is referring to the Jews still scatted in the nations when Jesus returns. It is the same as Matthew 24:31. It is not a resurrection event. But Jews gathered out of the nations in their natural bodies to the land of Israel.

Differently, Peter, Paul, Daniel will have their bodies resurrected to be part of the rapture/resurrection event that will take place before the great tribulation begins. When Jesus returns, they will be a part of the bride of Christ coming with Jesus back to earth, in Revelation 19.

You believe the carcass being gathered is not a resurrection event?

Mathew 24
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.





Perhaps you should be reminded ,Jesus told his followers they will be persecuted and killed.

 

[tailgator]

The term one end of heaven to the other, does not mean heaven where God's throne is. But is a figure of speech meaning the most distant lands. The same type of wording is used in Deuteronomy 30:4.

Deuteronomy 30:
1 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,

2 And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;

3 That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.

4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:

5 And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.

6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

----------------------------------------------

Ezekiel 39:28 is Matthew 24:31 - fulfilling the promise God made in Deuteronomy 30:1-6

The vision Ezekiel was presented in Ezekiel 37 of the valley of dry bones was symbolic of Israel becoming a nation again in the land of Israel. No longer two nations of north and south, but one unite nation - which was fulfilled in May 14, 1948.

The part of Ezekiel 37 about the messiah being their king is still yet to be fulfilled - but will be fulfilled when Jesus returns.

I didn't say anything about anyone being buried in the sky.

I say the carcass is in the earth.
Buried beneath the surface.

 

[tailgator]

The term one end of heaven to the other, does not mean heaven where God's throne is. But is a figure of speech meaning the most distant lands. The same type of wording is used in Deuteronomy 30:4.

Deuteronomy 30:
1 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,

2 And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;

3 That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.

4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:

5 And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.

6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

----------------------------------------------

Ezekiel 39:28 is Matthew 24:31 - fulfilling the promise God made in Deuteronomy 30:1-6

The vision Ezekiel was presented in Ezekiel 37 of the valley of dry bones was symbolic of Israel becoming a nation again in the land of Israel. No longer two nations of north and south, but one unite nation - which was fulfilled in May 14, 1948.

The part of Ezekiel 37 about the messiah being their king is still yet to be fulfilled - but will be fulfilled when Jesus returns.

So you deny the graves of the dead will be opened and their bodies resurected.
You believe Ezekiel visions of the resurrection is symbolic and there is not a actual resurrection.
Is that what your saying?

Ezekiel 37
12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

13 And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.

 

[Douggg]

Peter,Paul and Daniel are scattered in the nations

Peter, Paul, and Daniel - their bodies died long ago. And the remains not scattered.

They are gathered back into the land of Israel when Christ comes and gathers Israel back into the land of Israel.
Peter ,Paul and Daniel will be resurected in Ezekiel 37 when Israel is brought up out of their graves

You are not getting that Ezekiel 37 the valley of the dry bones vision is symbolic of Israel becoming one nation again, no longer two nations.

You are disregarding Ezekiel 37:16-22.

22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

Israel over there today is one nation not two nations like it was back in Ezekiel's day. Back in Ezekiel's day Israel was divided, the northern nation called Israel, the southern nation called Judah.

You can do a google image search on "the two nations of Israel" to see some maps of how Israel was divided.

 

[Douggg]

I didn't say anything about anyone being buried in the sky.

I say the carcass is in the earth.
Buried beneath the surface.

You said "Peter,Paul and Daniel are scattered in the nations"

 

[Douggg]

You believe the carcass being gathered is not a resurrection event?

Mathew 24
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

The text say the eagles will gather where the carcass is. Jesus is saying that there will be many people who will die during the great tribulation.

 

[tailgator]

Peter, Paul, and Daniel - their bodies died long ago. And the remains not scattered.


You are not getting that Ezekiel 37 the valley of the dry bones vision is symbolic of Israel becoming one nation again, no longer two nations.

You are disregarding Ezekiel 37:16-22.

22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

Israel over there today is one nation not two nations like it was back in Ezekiel's day. Back in Ezekiel's day Israel was divided, the northern nation called Israel, the southern nation called Judah.

You can do a google image search on "the two nations of Israel" to see some maps of how Israel was divided.

Peter Paul and Daniel have not been gathered into the land of Israel.
They are still scattered .They are not gathered into the land of Israel untill the resurection when their bodies are brought up out of their graves

 

[tailgator]

The text say the eagles will gather where the carcass is. Jesus is saying that there will be many people who will die during the great tribulation.

Jesus is talking about the carcass being gathered by the eagles.

The body of Christ being gathered by the angels.
Read the entire text for goodness sakes.


Mathew 24
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[Douggg]

Jesus is talking about the carcass being gathered by the eagles.

The body of Christ being gathered by the angels.
Read the entire text for goodness sakes.

Not gathered "by the eagles", but the carcasses being feasted upon by the eagles.

The eagles gather together, i.e. a flock of eagle picking at the flesh of dead people.

 

[tailgator]

You said "Peter,Paul and Daniel are scattered in the nations"

They are scattered in the nations.
Daniel is buried in Iran
Paul and Peter are buried in Rome.


They are brought back into the land of Israel after they are brought up out of their graves in Ezekiel 37.

Ezekiel 37
12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

13 And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.






Or do you claim Daniel Peter and Paul will not come up out of their graves?

 

[Douggg]

They are scattered in the nations.
Daniel is buried in Iran
Paul and Peter are buried in Rome.

The gathering of the elect in Matthew 24:31 is gathering of living Jews scattered in the nations to the land of Israel. There is no resurrection in Matthew 24:31.

 

[tailgator]

Not gathered "by the eagles", but the carcasses being feasted upon by the eagles.

The eagles gather together, i.e. a flock of eagle picking at the flesh of dead people.

Then you believe the saints who die for their testimony of Jesus will not be gathered.

You say the dead in Christ do not rise first when Christ comes in Mathew 24?

Mathew 24
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.



You believe the dead don't rise at the sound of the trumpet?

Do you believe the dead in Christ rose at all?

 

[tailgator]

The gathering of the elect in Matthew 24:31 is gathering of living Jews scattered in the nations to the land of Israel. There is no resurrection in Matthew 24:31.

So you say the dead do not rise first when Christ comes and the trumpet sounds in Mathew 24?

Mathew 24
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.




When do you claim the dead in Christ rise?
100 years after Christ comes and the trumpet sounds?

 

[Douggg]

Then you believe the saints who die for their testimony of Jesus will not be gathered.

Are you speaking about Christians who are martyred during the great tribulation ? If so, those martyred Christians will be brought back to life in Revelation 20:4-6. It does not say gathered in that text.

You still have not acknowledged that Israel over there today is no longer divided into two nations of north and south.

 

[tailgator]

Are you speaking about Christians who are martyred during the great tribulation ? If so, those martyred Christians will be brought back to life in Revelation 20:4-6. It does not say gathered in that text.

You still have not acknowledged that Israel over there today is no longer divided into two nations of north and south.

You say the dead in Christ do not rise from the dead when Jesus comes in Mathew 24.

When do you claim the dead in Christ rise or do you deny they rise from the dead at all?

 

[tailgator]

The gathering of the elect in Matthew 24:31 is gathering of living Jews scattered in the nations to the land of Israel. There is no resurrection in Matthew 24:31.

Now you say the dead in Christ are not gathered to Christ at his coming.You say there is no resurection when Christ comes in Mathew 24.


Mathew 24
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.



Paul said the dead in Christ rise first,then we who are alive are gathered to Christ.
Do you believe Paul is a false prophet?


1 Thes 4:16-17
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

[Douggg]

You say the dead in Christ do not rise from the dead when Jesus comes in Mathew 24.

When do you claim the dead in Christ rise or do you deny they rise from the dead at all?

The dead in Christ who have died in the past will be resurrected in rapture/resurrection event, and taken to heaven in their redeemed bodies.... while the great tribulation takes place here on earth. That event will take place before the Antichrist goes into the temple, sits, claims to have achieved God-hood.

 

[Douggg]

Paul said the dead in Christ rise first,then we who are alive are gathered to Christ.
Do you believe Paul is a false prophet?

Of course not. I believe that you have misunderstood the timing of the rapture/resurrection event though.