tailgator
Well-Known Member
Doug
If a Jew buys a ticket on a jet and flys to the US,did God gather him there or did the Jew cause himself to be in the US?
Hal Lindsay And Time LaHaye Were Deceived
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Doug
If a Jew buys a ticket on a jet and flys to the US,did God gather him there or did the Jew cause himself to be in the US?
Oh Douggg, your defence is to claim that others do not know the scriptures, just like you claim by inference that only you do, yet you are just as confused as Hal Linsy and Tim LaHayes were confused, with respect to the End Times.
The Ezekiel 39:17-20 passage is describing the same event as is described in Rev 19:17-18 which, to my way of understanding, is still over 1,000 years into our future. The events in Rev 19:17ff cannot happen until Satan is released from the Bottomless to run amuck during the little while period which is during the last 24 or so years of the seventh age, which is also the next age.
Now the passage that you have quoted from Ex 39:21-29 is describing the event in our near future which will play out in around the year 2044-2045 AD, when Armageddon will occur, and has nothing to do with the armies that will be gathered together after Satan and the other judged heavenly hosts begin marching all over the earth.
Goodbye Douggg
Sorry Douggg, you are showing again your delusion and lack of understanding of the events of the end times with this statement.
Jesus is stating that all of the elect, both Jew and gentile, will be gathered to Him upon His return with all of the heavenly hosts on the clouds.
This passage does not limit the elect to be gathered to only the Jews as you are suggesting.
Goodbye Douggg
Jay, you have....
Ezekiel 39:17-20.... over 1,000 years into our future
Ezekiel 39:21-29....just 20 years into our future
That does not make sense. How could Jesus in Ezekiel 39:21 just having executed judgment on heathen mentioned in the previous verses, that Ezekiel 39:17-20 be a 1000 years into the future ?
The basic time line of Ezekiel 39 is...
Gog/Magog event,
then the 7 years of Ezekiel 39:9
then at the end of the 7 years, the feast of Ezekiel 39:17-20 (Revelation 19:17-18)
then Jesus back on earth in Ezekiel 39:21-29
Douggg, nothing makes any sense to you because of your own private interpretations.
I have read in your previous posts that you have placed Armageddon at the end of the Seventh age with the Gog Magog wars in our near future.
Douggg, when did Israel go into captivity for their idolatrous iniquities? When did that occur? Did not that captivity begin from the start of the third age of the existence of Israel?
Not every End Time prophecy in scripture has been recorded in sequential order. The prophetic words jump from near to distant, back and forth and we have to discern whether the individual prophetic verses are applicable to the near or distant future.
In you peculiar understanding of the scriptures, your timeline of when the described events take place is really jumbled up and because of this your understanding of the End Times make no particular sense.
Goodbye Douggg
Jay, I did not say anything about the Seventh age - whatever you mean by Seventh age.
Jay, Israel went into the Assyrian and Babylonian captivities shortly after Solomon's death and the kingdom of Israel split into the northern kingdom (that went into Assyrian captivity) and the southern kingdom (that went in Babylonian captivity). Both captivities because of them getting into worshiping false gods, idols.
But none of those are referred to in Ezekiel 39:21-29.
Jesus Himself speaking in the text of Ezekiel 39:21-29 said....
23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me [when they rejected Jesus and He was crucified], therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.[beginning in 70ad}
24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them. [blindness to knowing that Jesus is the messiah, Romans 11:25]
25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob,[the Jews had been brought once before - i.e. out of the Babylonian captivity] and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
Jay, the verbal timeline I described of Ezekiel 39 is quite simple and not jumbled. It goes linearly through the verses of Ezekiel 39.
Gog/Magog event,
then the 7 years of Ezekiel 39:9
then at the end of the 7 years, the feast of Ezekiel 39:17-20 (Revelation 19:17-18)
then Jesus back on earth in Ezekiel 39:21-29
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tailgator
Well-Known Member
Ok
If a Jew bought a ticket on a boat ,to go to judea and live after the United nations decided Jews should be able to live there,who gathered the Jew to Judea, God or the Jew?
Sorry Douggg, but your understanding is your own fabrication and bears no resemblance to what is found in Ez 39. The verses in Ez 39 are not a linear progress as you are suggesting.
Why would anyone who has understanding of Ezekiel 39 accept your fabricated explanation.
Goodbye Douggg
You are right in your posed question. God had no hand in establishing the nation of Israel in the land of Canaan as foretold in Gen 15:16a.
During the fourth generation/age, i.e. between 3,072 solar years and 4,096 solar years after the birth of Isaac, God stated that some of Abraham's descendants would return to the Land of Canaan, without any assistance from God at all. From my study of the chronology of the history of the nation of Israel, it is my understanding that exactly 4,000 solar years after the birth of Isaac, that some of Abraham's descendants re-entered the land of Canaan, in 1948 AD, to claim the land as their heritage which God had promised Abraham that He would give to Abraham's descendants for a period of time where the vanishing point of the time period would be beyond their ability to comprehend.
In other words, 1948 AD is not the years in which God began to gather the Israelites to Himself.
This will not begin to happen until 4,096 solar years have been completed from the time of Isaac's birth.
Shalom
tailgator
Well-Known Member
Also,God did not promise to give the land of Israel to all of Abrahams seed.
He only promised to give it to one seed
Galatians 3:16
16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,”[a] meaning one person, who is Christ.
If the people in the land belong to Christ,then they are counted as the seed.If they do not belong to Christ,then they will be consumed and cast out before that land is given to the seed.
Daniel 7
24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.
Mathew 8:11-12
I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.
But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
Most of the subjects in that kingdom today are not heirs of that kingdom.If they do not belong to Christ (to whom it was promised)then they will be removed from that kingdom.
tailgator
Well-Known Member
The same land governed by the beast today is the same land given to the persecuted saints who belong to Abrahams seed (Christ).
After the beast is destroyed in revelation 19,the land is given to the saints who did not worship the beast,it's image nor received its mark.
Revelation 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Revelation 20:6=Exodus 19:6
Exodus 19:6
you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.”
After the beast is destroyed in revelation 19,the land is given to the saints who did not worship the beast,it's image nor received its mark.
Revelation 20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Revelation 20:6=Exodus 19:6
Exodus 19:6
you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.”
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huh ? The government of Israel says that any Jew has return rights to become a citizen of Israel. It is the decision of the Jew whether or not to go to Israel and become a citizen of the nation of Israel.
What is the point you are trying to make ?
tailgator
Well-Known Member
We both agree then.
God did not gather the Jews into the land of Israel. They provided their own transportation to the destination they chose.
Ezekiel 37
12 Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
13 And ye shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the Lord have spoken it, and performed it, saith the Lord.
Israel's graves are not opened,and all the prophets and saints of Israel have not been gathered by God into the land of Israel yet .That takes place after the seventh Trump has sounded and Christ receives the kingdom which was promised to him.
Revelation 11
15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said:
“The kingdom of the world has become
the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah,
and he will reign for ever and ever.”
16 And the twenty-four elders, who were seated on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17 saying:
“We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty,
the One who is and who was,
because you have taken your great power
and have begun to reign.
18 The nations were angry,
and your wrath has come.
The time has come for judging the dead,
and for rewarding your servants the prophets
and your people who revere your name,
both great and small—
and for destroying those who destroy the earth.”
The text of Ezekiel 38 does not say that God Himself gathered them directly. But they gathered, i.e. came in groups aboard ships, to the land of Israel following WWII.
tailgator
Well-Known Member
No,God has not gathered Israel yet.
Israel is gathered when Christ comes.
Mathew 24
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
tailgator
Well-Known Member
You confuse the Jews who follow the beast for the Israelites who follow the lamb.
Revelation 13:3
One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast.
The deadly wound was healed in 1948.
Jews from all nations followed after the beast.
They bought tickets ,boarded ships and went to live in the beasts kingdom.
tailgator
Well-Known Member
Ezekiel 39
28 Then shall they know that I am the Lord their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
When God gathers Israel,they will all be gathered.
Peter,Paul,Daniel will all be gathered..None will be left behind
Ezekiel 39:28 is referring to the Jews still scatted in the nations when Jesus returns. It is the same as Matthew 24:31. It is not a resurrection event. But Jews gathered out of the nations in their natural bodies to the land of Israel.
Differently, Peter, Paul, Daniel will have their bodies resurrected to be part of the rapture/resurrection event that will take place before the great tribulation begins. When Jesus returns, they will be a part of the bride of Christ coming with Jesus back to earth, in Revelation 19.
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