Grace-Haters are incapable of honestly admitting what the (P) in Calvinism really means.

[Cooper]

I will insist only once more: if we are to continue on a fair and honest basis, and actual exchange addressing each others' points in turn, then you must now respond to the Scriptures I have given before to you, which prove to me:

There are those who once knew God, believed Jesus, confessed unto salvation, who have and can turn from God to such a point where God no longer draws them back to Him, nor even remembers their name, which He has blotted out of His book of Life and of the Lamb:

These are just a few Scriptures speaking of them that were saved and turned from God, and their latter end is worse than before Salvation:

(Heb 6:4-8) They tasted of the heavenly gift. They crucified Christ afresh. They are rejected and burned as thorns, even as Jesus prophesied of branches that abide not in Him. (John 15) They so turn from God, that it is become impossible for them to repent and are only awaiting a certain fearful judgment to come. (Heb 10:27)

(2 Peter 2:18-22) Peter warning of false teachers who turn believers from the Lord, who had clean escaped the pollutions of the world by the knowledge of the Lord, and returned once again to their old life of sin, with a latter end worse than before they were saved.

It is better for such in the judgment of God, that they had never believed in the first place.

These are Scriptures of God. Not opinion nor imagination of man. It does not matter whether we can personally fathom it or not, but only to acknowledge it as so, and not only possible, but confirmed: Judas Iscariot is the only example needed as such. A personally chosen apostle by Jesus, later called by Jesus the son of perdition. (John 17)


Respond to these Scriptures, else they stand as presented, and your doctrine is false, having no defense against them. If you do respond, then I will gladly do so for your above post. Otherwise, I do not waste time in a one-sided debate, nor do I have interest in being a sounding board for others.

When you recognise that people can backslide, you are on the right track.
.

 

[Cooper]

It must be supernatural, because it certainly isn't Scriptural.

Grace has always been by merit bestowed from one more powerful to another in subjection.

It is called finding favor in one's sight, and is always bestowed in Scripture after the other offers himself in submission, and has demonstrated enough worthiness to warrant such favor.

Noah did not find grace in god's sight by being like everyone else. It was because of his life of faith, that God bestowed the faovr of not being swept away with the rest.

Unmerited favor, grace, and unconditional love are not in Scripture.

Otherwise, quote it. What Scripture speaks of unmerited grace from God, or unconditional love of God bestowed in the heart? Show the Scripture where there is no 'if' involved in our salvation by God?

God so loved the world, that He gave us an opportunity to receive His salvation by grace by the merit of believing His Son. It is through faith God saves by grace: through the merit of believing from the heart, where there is no physical proof nor miraculous sight to see in order to believe.

In no way, shape or form, did the wicked, that is all of us, deserve God's unmerited favour. But such is the love of God, he provided a way of salvation by shedding his own blood, dying on our behalf, so that we can have eternal life with Him.
.

 

[marks]

But, but, but, the Carnal Mind....whew...still out and about IN the World, Bombarded 24-7 with wicked, lewd, trashy, speech, commercials, signage....

I've kind of created a bubble for myself. I expose my mind to as very little of all that as possible.

Much love!

 

[Cooper]

I've kind of created a bubble for myself. I expose my mind to as very little of all that as possible.

Much love!

You do right. It is very rare I have the TV on. It is like allowing Satan into my home, and no way do I want that.
.

 

[marks]

You do right. It is very rare I have the TV on. It is like allowing Satan into my home, and no way do I want that.
.

And radio.

Family Radio.

 

[Cooper]

You think I really meant that?

Maybe, thinking about it, you are right to say those who accept Jesus as their Lord and Saviour are sealed with the Holy Spirit. If that is what you meant, I am sorry. I thought you meant something else.
.

 

[amadeus]

Because you are preserved like a jar of jelly, that perseveres in good taste.

It's called being 'sealed' by the Spirit.

Unless someone breaks the seal prematurely. My mother always warned us about that when she was canning jelly and other things!
When a person quenches the Spirit, that would, I believe, be breaking the seal!

 

[robert derrick]

Unless someone breaks the seal prematurely. My mother always warned us about that when she was canning jelly and other things!
When a person quenches the Spirit, that would, I believe, be breaking the seal!

Sounds good. (But I was being facetious about the jelly jar)

A testament is of two, not one. God enjoined the testament unto the believer.

The eternal security type who say they have no part in keeping themselves, act as if they have no practical part in the covenant enjoined unto them.

 

[robert derrick]

Maybe, thinking about it, you are right to say those who accept Jesus as their Lord and Saviour are sealed with the Holy Spirit. If that is what you meant, I am sorry. I thought you meant something else.
.

Sorry, I was making a joke about the jelly jar, like are saved soul is all bottled up and preserved, and like jelly we can't do anything about it. Like we are the preservatives of God, but maybe there's more to it than I thought.

 

[robert derrick]

In no way, shape or form, did the wicked, that is all of us, deserve God's unmerited favour. But such is the love of God, he provided a way of salvation by shedding his own blood, dying on our behalf, so that we can have eternal life with Him.
.

Deserve and merited is not the same.

Deserving is owed payment. Unmerited is having no merit at all, nothing to bestow favor upon.

They are complete opposites. You see only one or the other in your humanist mind, that does not know the true things of God by Scripture.

Merited favor is granting favor because of some word or deed. It was given because of something on the part of the one receiving.

Noah did not find grace in God's sight by doing nothing. And no one finds salvation by grace by believing nothing.

Even as we are part of the body of Christ, so we have our part in salvation by grace, and the covenant of Jesus' blood, which is to believe from the heart. Not to believe we are saved no matter what, which is not Scripture, but to believe Jesus and to do His will no matter what, which is Scripture.

Once again, you are giving humanistic ideas for God, which Scripture does not. Show the Scripture of unmerited favor and unconditional love of God, where there is no IF involved.

Otherwise, you are left with your opinion of God and of yourself.

 

[robert derrick]

Hi marks ~
I can't comment on Calvinism, not studied on that.
But to your comment...



I am reminded;
The converted are converted because of their Freewill to Confess.
The Lord "accepts" the body as dead (crucified with Christ)
The Lord "restores" the soul (Pss 23:3)
The Lord "quickens" the spirit, that it be born again of Gods seed.
The Lord Spirit, "enters" and his truth dwells "with and in" us.

But, but, but, the Carnal Mind....whew...still out and about IN the World, Bombarded 24-7 with wicked, lewd, trashy, speech, commercials, signage....

The ongoing....is for the man to continually (use the power (Spirit) God gave him to use ....within the man) ...Gods Truth...Gods Righteousness to supersede the "influence" "OF" the worlds "nonsense" that enters his Carnal Mind...
Continually making an effort TO:

Rom 12:
[2] And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Continual, renewing, the Mind.
The Goal: Have a Mind like Christ.

Glory to God,
Taken

True. Renewal of mind is ongoing. Renewing. No scripture speaks of sanctifying...

 

[Taken]

I've kind of created a bubble for myself. I expose my mind to as very little of all that as possible.

Much love!

Same for us. We have not watched TV for years. Although a member here, Don't participate in the "social" sites. Restaurants, fast food, maybe a couple times a year. Not a crowd fan. Yet well aware of how fast crazy the world is spinning.

 

[robert derrick]

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Thess 5)

Why should Paul pray God do something that is already a done deal? Such as being preserved eternally without chance of becoming unpreserved?

Likewise is our body exhorted to be preserved whole, and yet fornication is against one's own body.

If the body is not preserved blameless, then neither the soul nor spirit. We are therefore to keep ourselves unspotted by the world. (James 1)

 

[Taken]

True. Renewal of mind is ongoing. Renewing. No scripture speaks of sanctifying...

Renewing, is the mans works.
Sanctification (set apart), is Gods works.

 

[Taken]

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Thess 5)

Why should Paul pray God do something that is already a done deal? Such as being preserved eternally without chance of becoming unpreserved?

Why? Paul was a Teacher/Preacher.
Teacher, giving knowledge to the uninformed who gives what, and to what extent.
Preacher, praying for those not sanctified to become sanctified.

 

[TheslightestID]

And without faith, they are not good works to God, for without faith it is impossible to pleased God.

To fulfill the royal law with God, it must be by good works of faith, with faith, by faith in God.

That is why all the 'good' works and righteousness of man is as filthy rags with God.

It is also why good unbelievers do good, but do not inherit eternal life. That would be salvation of works, and justification by works only.

That is pretty much my understanding as well. It's not rocket science, but there are a few things we must know, and do. But if people want the easy way they will only see what the easy way teachers, teach, no matter how clear scripture is.

 

[CharismaticLady]

It must be supernatural, because it certainly isn't Scriptural.

Grace has always been by merit bestowed from one more powerful to another in subjection.

It is called finding favor in one's sight, and is always bestowed in Scripture after the other offers himself in submission, and has demonstrated enough worthiness to warrant such favor.

Noah did not find grace in god's sight by being like everyone else. It was because of his life of faith, that God bestowed the faovr of not being swept away with the rest.

Unmerited favor, grace, and unconditional love are not in Scripture.

Otherwise, quote it. What Scripture speaks of unmerited grace from God, or unconditional love of God bestowed in the heart? Show the Scripture where there is no 'if' involved in our salvation by God?

God so loved the world, that He gave us an opportunity to receive His salvation by grace by the merit of believing His Son. It is through faith God saves by grace: through the merit of believing from the heart, where there is no physical proof nor miraculous sight to see in order to believe.

Supernatural in the God sense, not paranormal sense. LOL

God speaking the world into existence without building it piece by piece, but just His Word, is supernatural, not natural.

 

[Daniel Veler]

Those who teach you can be saved today and lost tomorrow

This of course is a lie against those who disagree with your eternal preservation and security.

No one teaches saved today lost tomoro. Saved to today and lost down the road? Yes. That is what Scripture teaches.

God saves by grace, but we must believe Jesus. And the Lord will go out of His way to recover them gone astray, but our participation in faith is still required.

Eternal unconditional security, without all the pseudo-scripture fanfare of grace and love and happiness, basically says God saves us and keeps us despite ourselves.

You haven’t understood.

 

[Daniel Veler]

The problem with false doctrine is the more you must defend it, the more you get away from any pretense of honesty int he Scriptures to openly contradicitng the Scriputres:

He keeps you you don’t keep yourself

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. (1 John 5:18)

We must keep ourselves from the devil touching us with sin and spotting our souls that have been washed clean in the blood of Jesus:

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. (James 1:27)

These Scriptures came immediately to mind, when I read your false statement about God and His people. I know them, because I read to know all the Scriptures of God, not just the ones that make me feel good or appear to confirm what I want to believe.

The unreasonableness of your false doctrine is the entire notion of thinking you have nothing to do with being saved, since you certainly did have something to do with God saving you: you had to first believe from the heart. This requirement is also an expectation: to continue in the faith.

Salvation is conditioned on faith from the heart to be saved yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

There is no 'take back' from this. Out of your own mouth you have fully exposed your doctrine as being false. I am not finding fault with you, nor am I suggesting you are not saved, nor living in open sin. You can believe and do what you want. However, you do prove you don't know what you are talking about with God, and what you think is God's Word is not God's Word, but your own.

And I have known one that believed the way you do, and he got so far back into the depths of sin and fornication, that he no longer even bothers professing Christ with the lips, much less confessing Him from the heart.

Answer me this.you said “Salvation is conditioned on faith from the heart to be saved yesterday, today, and tomorrow.””
Whose faith are you talking about? The faith that is a gift given to us by God or the faith your taught as a young boy?

 

[robert derrick]

Answer me this. you said “Salvation is conditioned on faith from the heart to be saved yesterday, today, and tomorrow.””
Whose faith are you talking about? The faith that is a gift given to us by God or the faith your taught as a young boy?

I don't continue down the road of a one-sided argument.

Your doctrine teaches you that we don't keep ourselves, and I showed you Scripture proving it false.

Respond to that, and then we can go on to your newest question.