Grace-Haters are incapable of honestly admitting what the (P) in Calvinism really means.

[Grailhunter]

So a mighty entity created the universe and a beautiful planet to put life on. He filled the planet with wonderful animals and decided to make intelligent beings, but they would not have free-will but rather would be completely controlled organisms. Every thought, every word, and every action under the complete control of the monster. Trapped with no possibility of escape.

Some to go to heaven....still as controlled robots to exist eternity with no thought of their own. Or burn in agony by no fault of their own because their evil was under the control of this entity, evil that was predestined before the creation of universe.

As robots with no will, any good they do is not of their own will but the control of the this evil entity. Those he determines to be good, do worship him, but it is no merit to them....what does worship mean when you are forced.

I am certain we could come up with some Sci-Fi movies about this....it would definitely be a horror flick. The evil under the control of this entity committing atrocities all through history.....was it enjoy this controlled evil? Humans forced into bloodshed and the murdering of innocents, all under the control of this monster entity. All reality a play, down to snowflakes....does he enjoy the show?

Can humanity fight back?....no it is hopeless, their minds totally controlled by this entity.....they cannot even think of fighting back. No chance to change their minds and repenting they go to hell.

Beware of this religion it has no good in it.

I create Man under my complete control.....bow down and worship me.

 

[Scott Downey]

So a mighty entity created the universe and a beautiful planet to put life on. He filled the planet with wonderful animals and decided to make intelligent beings, but they would not have free-will but rather would be completely controlled organisms. Every thought, every word, and every action under the complete control of the monster. Trapped with no possibility of escape.

Some to go to heaven....still as controlled robots to exist eternity with no thought of their own. Or burn in agony by no fault of their own because their evil was under the control of this entity, evil that was predestined before the creation of universe.

As robots with no will, any good they do is not of their own will but the control of the this evil entity. Those he determines to be good, do worship him, but it is no merit to them....what does worship mean when you are forced.

I am certain we could come up with some Sci-Fi movies about this....it would definitely be a horror flick. The evil under the control of this entity committing atrocities all through history.....was it enjoy this controlled evil? Humans forced into bloodshed and the murdering of innocents, all under the control of this monster entity. All reality a play, down to snowflakes....does he enjoy the show?

Can humanity fight back?....no it is hopeless, their minds totally controlled by this entity.....they cannot even think of fighting back. No chance to change their minds and repenting they go to hell.

Beware of this religion it has no good in it.

I create Man under my complete control.....bow down and worship me.

View attachment 19641

2 corinthians 4 clearly says the mind of unbelievers is blinded by the devil, and the devil does not let his prisoners go free. Only Christ can make you free. But this is not your decision to make, to be free as you are blinded. A blind man cannot see the light, can only experience the dark.

Only God can shine His light out of the heart of those he makes born of God.
This is only his decision to make not your own, shall not the judge of all the earth do right?
Do you notice how Paul has written here?

2 Corinthians 4
King James Version
1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;

2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

v6 seals this as under the authority of God and not ourselves, not our choice or will for Him to shine His light in our hearts. It is done by command of the Lord God alone. He alone has the glory and power and done this for the purpose of his will, just like Ephesians 1 says.

 

[Grailhunter]

2 corinthians 4 clearly says the mind of unbelievers is blinded by the devil, and the devil does not let his prisoners go free. Only Christ can make you free. But this is not your decision to make, to be free as you are blinded. A blind man cannot see the light, can only experience the dark.

Only God can shine His light out of the heart of those he makes born of God.
This is only his decision to make not your own, shall not the judge of all the earth do right?
Do you notice how Paul has written here?

2 Corinthians 4
King James Version
1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;

2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

v6 seals this as under the authority of God and not ourselves, not our choice or will for Him to shine His light in our hearts. It is done by command of the Lord God alone. He alone has the glory and power and done this for the purpose of his will, just like Ephesians 1 says.

And....your point?
Do you believe in monstrous puppet master?

 

[Scott Downey]

And....your point?
Do you believe in monstrous puppet master?

Your wording is blasphemous. My point is not mine own, it is God's point. We do not believe cleverly described fables.

This world is fallen and doomed to destruction, some though God is redeeming from the coming destruction.
As pretty or beautiful as it is now, it used to be much prettier. God has subjected the creation to futility.
Romans 8, the futility of creation is it cannot control or escape it's fate, it waits on God's will, which is the revealing of the sons of God which will deliver it from the bondage of corruption (caused by the wicked in it). For now, creation has to endure with longsuffering the wicked. For your information, we are also a part of the creation! And subject to futility not willingly... I would prefer to not live in this present evil age myself!

18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God

Romans 9
19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

 

[Grailhunter]

Your wording is blasphemous. My point is not mine own, it is God's point. We do not believe cleverly described fables.

This world is fallen and doomed to destruction, some though God is redeeming from the coming destruction.
As pretty or beautiful as it is now, it used to be much prettier. God has subjected the creation to futility.
Romans 8, the futility of creation is it cannot control or escape it's fate, it waits on God's will, which is the revealing of the sons of God which will deliver it from the bondage of corruption (caused by the wicked in it). For now, creation has to endure with longsuffering the wicked. For your information, we are also a part of the creation! And subject to futility not willingly... I would prefer to not live in this present evil age myself!

18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God

Romans 9
19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?

22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

So you think you have no thoughts of your own?
No control of your actions?

 

[Scott Downey]

So you think you have no thoughts of your own?
No control of your actions?

No, it is not like that. You make choices within the scope of the environment your in. But you do not have the freedom to choose to make a choice outside of what you know or are do you. The more means you have, your free will choices expand and vice versa. If you try and make a free will choice beyond your environment of control, your probably a lawbreaker, thief, or robber, or maybe just deluded. And regarding spiritual matters, you can not make a freewill choice for something that you don't even know about, due to your lack of knowledge.

your freewill choices are bound, you are not truly free to have perfect freewill, infact no one is except God.

 

[Grailhunter]

You make choices within the scope of the environment your in.

Define environment?

The more means you have, your free will choices expand and vice versa.

Free will based on your means?

And regarding spiritual matters, you can not make a freewill choice for something that you don't even know about, due to your lack of knowledge.

What do you not know about religious choices?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

No, it is not like that. You make choices within the scope of the environment your in. But you do not have the freedom to choose to make a choice outside of what you know or are do you. The more means you have, your free will choices expand and vice versa. If you try and make a free will choice beyond your environment of control, your probably a lawbreaker, thief, or robber, or maybe just deluded. And regarding spiritual matters, you can not make a freewill choice for something that you don't even know about, due to your lack of knowledge.

your freewill choices are bound, you are not truly free to have perfect freewill, infact no one is except God.

This is true.
We are only free to exercise our freewill within the boundaries that God has set for us. Like a rat in a maze, we can only move about freely within the maze that has been opened up to us to move about in. And, like a rat in a maze, God is able to place certain things in the maze to persuade us to stay in a certain part of the maze that we can travel about in. The arrogance of man makes him think he is his own master in his own kingdom. God laughs at that.

 

[robert derrick]

ps 94

I find your misquoting Revelation by selective editing and ignoring context to pronounce a curse upon another Christian … sickening.

That is the point that I intended to make.
I am generally indifferent to your quotes or his quotes or that anything meaningful remains to be said after 800 posts. If it was within my power, I would have closed the topic long ago.

You go from accusing to take Scripture out of context, and then accusing of misquoting Scripture.

No wonder you have no answer to the point made. You obviously don't know what you are talking about.

And this thread is shut down for you so soon as you depart from it.

Typical OSAS to be so double minded about things.

that anything meaningful remains to be said after 800 posts

I find many meaningful errors are still continuing to come from OSAS believers, and I continue to be amazed at what is openly said. So I don't want you to go away. I want more of your errors posted, so that I can keep adding to my file on them, as well as to perfect the doctrine of Christ by refuting them with Scripture.

 

[Cassandra]

Until then, I see no Tulips in Scripture, much less in the kingdom of God.

I'll stick with the Rose of Sharon.

Well done!♥

 

[Cassandra]

I'm onboard and in agreement with much that you point out BUT I would be interested in your response to the following:
Do you commit any sins in your daily life today? Pride, lust, hate or any sin.
Do Born Again Christians ever need to seek forgiveness in our prayers?[/QUOTE]

I think this is an excellent question. I would love to see an OSAS answer, though.

 

[atpollard]

Do you commit any sins in your daily life today? Pride, lust, hate or any sin.
Do Born Again Christians ever need to seek forgiveness in our prayers?

I think this is an excellent question. I would love to see an OSAS answer, though.

OSAS ANSWER (From The Westminster Shorter Catechism):

Q. 29. How are we made partakers of the redemption purchased by Christ?

A. We are made partakers of the redemption purchased by Christ, by the effectual application of it to us by his Holy Spirit [a].​

[a]. Titus 3:4-7​

Q. 30. How doth the Spirit apply to us the redemption purchased by Christ?​

A. The Spirit applieth to us the redemption purchased by Christ, by working faith in us [a], and thereby uniting us to Christ in our effectual calling .​

[a]. Rom. 10:17; 1 Cor. 2:12-16; Eph. 2:8; Phil. 1:29
. John 15:5; 1 Cor. 1:9; Eph. 3:17​

Q. 31. What is effectual calling?​

A. Effectual calling is the work of God’s Spirit, whereby, convincing us of our sin and misery, enlightening our minds in the knowledge of Christ [a], and renewing our wills , he doth persuade and enable us to embrace Jesus Christ [c], freely offered to us in the gospel [d].​

[a]. Acts 26:18; 1 Cor. 2:10, 12; 2 Cor. 4:6; Eph. 1:17-18
. Deut. 30:6; Ezk. 36:26-27; John 3:5; Titus 3:5
[c]. John 6:44-45; Acts 16:14
[d]. Isa. 45:22; Matt. 11:28-30; Rev. 22:17

Q. 32. What benefits do they that are effectually called partake of in this life?​

A. They that are effectually called do in this life partake of justification, adoption, and sanctification, and the several benefits which in this life do either accompany or flow from them [a].​

[a]. Rom. 8:30; 1 Cor. 1:30; 6:11; Eph. 1:5

Q. 33. What is justification?​

A. Justification is an act of God’s free grace [a], wherein he pardoneth all our sins , and accepteth us as righteous in his sight [c], only for the righteousness of Christ imputed to us [d], and received by faith alone [e].​

[a]. Rom. 3:24
. Rom. 4:6-8; 2 Cor. 5:19
[c]. 2 Cor. 5:21
[d]. Rom. 4:6, 11; 5:19
[e]. Gal. 2:16; Phil. 3:9

Q. 34. What is adoption?

A. Adoption is an act of God’s free grace [a], whereby we are received into the number, and have a right to all the privileges, of the sons of God .

[a]. 1 John 3:1
. John 1:12; Rom. 8:17

Q. 35. What is sanctification?

A. Sanctification is the work of God’s free grace [a], whereby we are renewed in the whole man after the image of God , and are enabled more and more to die unto sin, and live unto righteousness [c].

[a]. Ezk. 36:27; Phil. 2:13; 2 Thess. 2:13
. 2 Cor. 5:17; Eph. 4:23-24; 1 Thess. 5:23
[c]. Ezek. 36:25-27; Rom. 6:4, 6, 12-14; 2 Cor. 7:1; 1 Pet. 2:24

Q. 36. What are the benefits which in this life do accompany or flow
from justification, adoption, and sanctification?

A. The benefits which in this life do accompany or flow from justification, adoption, and sanctification, are, assurance of God’s love [a], peace of conscience , joy in the Holy Ghost [c], increase of grace [d], and perseverance therein to the end [e].

[a]. Rom. 5:5
. Rom. 5:1
[c]. Rom. 14:17
[d]. 2 Pet. 3:18
[e]. Phil. 1:6; 1 Pet. 1:5


​

So the short answer is “YES”.
Let me know if you have any questions about it.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Do you commit any sins in your daily life today? Pride, lust, hate or any sin.
Do Born Again Christians ever need to seek forgiveness in our prayers?




OSAS ANSWER (From The Westminster Shorter Catechism):

Q. 29. How are we made partakers of the redemption purchased by Christ?

A. We are made partakers of the redemption purchased by Christ, by the effectual application of it to us by his Holy Spirit [a].​

[a]. Titus 3:4-7​

Q. 30. How doth the Spirit apply to us the redemption purchased by Christ?​

A. The Spirit applieth to us the redemption purchased by Christ, by working faith in us [a], and thereby uniting us to Christ in our effectual calling .​

[a]. Rom. 10:17; 1 Cor. 2:12-16; Eph. 2:8; Phil. 1:29
. John 15:5; 1 Cor. 1:9; Eph. 3:17​

Q. 31. What is effectual calling?​

A. Effectual calling is the work of God’s Spirit, whereby, convincing us of our sin and misery, enlightening our minds in the knowledge of Christ [a], and renewing our wills , he doth persuade and enable us to embrace Jesus Christ [c], freely offered to us in the gospel [d].​

[a]. Acts 26:18; 1 Cor. 2:10, 12; 2 Cor. 4:6; Eph. 1:17-18
. Deut. 30:6; Ezk. 36:26-27; John 3:5; Titus 3:5
[c]. John 6:44-45; Acts 16:14
[d]. Isa. 45:22; Matt. 11:28-30; Rev. 22:17

Q. 32. What benefits do they that are effectually called partake of in this life?​

A. They that are effectually called do in this life partake of justification, adoption, and sanctification, and the several benefits which in this life do either accompany or flow from them [a].​

[a]. Rom. 8:30; 1 Cor. 1:30; 6:11; Eph. 1:5

Q. 33. What is justification?​

A. Justification is an act of God’s free grace [a], wherein he pardoneth all our sins , and accepteth us as righteous in his sight [c], only for the righteousness of Christ imputed to us [d], and received by faith alone [e].​

[a]. Rom. 3:24
. Rom. 4:6-8; 2 Cor. 5:19
[c]. 2 Cor. 5:21
[d]. Rom. 4:6, 11; 5:19
[e]. Gal. 2:16; Phil. 3:9

Q. 34. What is adoption?

A. Adoption is an act of God’s free grace [a], whereby we are received into the number, and have a right to all the privileges, of the sons of God .

[a]. 1 John 3:1
. John 1:12; Rom. 8:17

Q. 35. What is sanctification?

A. Sanctification is the work of God’s free grace [a], whereby we are renewed in the whole man after the image of God , and are enabled more and more to die unto sin, and live unto righteousness [c].

[a]. Ezk. 36:27; Phil. 2:13; 2 Thess. 2:13
. 2 Cor. 5:17; Eph. 4:23-24; 1 Thess. 5:23
[c]. Ezek. 36:25-27; Rom. 6:4, 6, 12-14; 2 Cor. 7:1; 1 Pet. 2:24

Q. 36. What are the benefits which in this life do accompany or flow
from justification, adoption, and sanctification?

A. The benefits which in this life do accompany or flow from justification, adoption, and sanctification, are, assurance of God’s love [a], peace of conscience , joy in the Holy Ghost [c], increase of grace [d], and perseverance therein to the end [e].

[a]. Rom. 5:5
. Rom. 5:1
[c]. Rom. 14:17
[d]. 2 Pet. 3:18
[e]. Phil. 1:6; 1 Pet. 1:5


​

So the short answer is “YES”.
Let me know if you have any questions about it.

I'm curious what your take is on the new Hypergrace/Freegrace OSAS.

 

[atpollard]

I'm curious what your take is on the new Hypergrace/Freegrace OSAS.

I view it in the same light as people that smash their hand with a hammer to get the adrenaline rush … “there is no cure for stupid”, but I don’t throw away my hammer because they are idiots.

EDIT: Paul covered the question in Romans 6 … Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?

 

[TEXBOW]

Do you commit any sins in your daily life today? Pride, lust, hate or any sin.
Do Born Again Christians ever need to seek forgiveness in our prayers?




OSAS ANSWER (From The Westminster Shorter Catechism):

Q. 29. How are we made partakers of the redemption purchased by Christ?

A. We are made partakers of the redemption purchased by Christ, by the effectual application of it to us by his Holy Spirit [a].​

[a]. Titus 3:4-7​

Q. 30. How doth the Spirit apply to us the redemption purchased by Christ?​

A. The Spirit applieth to us the redemption purchased by Christ, by working faith in us [a], and thereby uniting us to Christ in our effectual calling .​

[a]. Rom. 10:17; 1 Cor. 2:12-16; Eph. 2:8; Phil. 1:29
. John 15:5; 1 Cor. 1:9; Eph. 3:17​

Q. 31. What is effectual calling?​

A. Effectual calling is the work of God’s Spirit, whereby, convincing us of our sin and misery, enlightening our minds in the knowledge of Christ [a], and renewing our wills , he doth persuade and enable us to embrace Jesus Christ [c], freely offered to us in the gospel [d].​

[a]. Acts 26:18; 1 Cor. 2:10, 12; 2 Cor. 4:6; Eph. 1:17-18
. Deut. 30:6; Ezk. 36:26-27; John 3:5; Titus 3:5
[c]. John 6:44-45; Acts 16:14
[d]. Isa. 45:22; Matt. 11:28-30; Rev. 22:17

Q. 32. What benefits do they that are effectually called partake of in this life?​

A. They that are effectually called do in this life partake of justification, adoption, and sanctification, and the several benefits which in this life do either accompany or flow from them [a].​

[a]. Rom. 8:30; 1 Cor. 1:30; 6:11; Eph. 1:5

Q. 33. What is justification?​

A. Justification is an act of God’s free grace [a], wherein he pardoneth all our sins , and accepteth us as righteous in his sight [c], only for the righteousness of Christ imputed to us [d], and received by faith alone [e].​

[a]. Rom. 3:24
. Rom. 4:6-8; 2 Cor. 5:19
[c]. 2 Cor. 5:21
[d]. Rom. 4:6, 11; 5:19
[e]. Gal. 2:16; Phil. 3:9

Q. 34. What is adoption?

A. Adoption is an act of God’s free grace [a], whereby we are received into the number, and have a right to all the privileges, of the sons of God .

[a]. 1 John 3:1
. John 1:12; Rom. 8:17

Q. 35. What is sanctification?

A. Sanctification is the work of God’s free grace [a], whereby we are renewed in the whole man after the image of God , and are enabled more and more to die unto sin, and live unto righteousness [c].

[a]. Ezk. 36:27; Phil. 2:13; 2 Thess. 2:13
. 2 Cor. 5:17; Eph. 4:23-24; 1 Thess. 5:23
[c]. Ezek. 36:25-27; Rom. 6:4, 6, 12-14; 2 Cor. 7:1; 1 Pet. 2:24

Q. 36. What are the benefits which in this life do accompany or flow
from justification, adoption, and sanctification?

A. The benefits which in this life do accompany or flow from justification, adoption, and sanctification, are, assurance of God’s love [a], peace of conscience , joy in the Holy Ghost [c], increase of grace [d], and perseverance therein to the end [e].

[a]. Rom. 5:5
. Rom. 5:1
[c]. Rom. 14:17
[d]. 2 Pet. 3:18
[e]. Phil. 1:6; 1 Pet. 1:5


​

So the short answer is “YES”.
Let me know if you have any questions about it.

We all sin. Born Again followers of Christ seek forgiveness. The Holy Spirit convicts us. Willful sinners who teach that any sin they commit has already been forgiven and repentance is not necessary are going to be disappointed.

 

[Scott Downey]

We all sin. Born Again followers of Christ seek forgiveness. The Holy Spirit convicts us. Willful sinners who teach that any sin they commit has already been forgiven and repentance is not necessary are going to be disappointed.

Yes, we need to ask forgiveness for sins that we commit. A person born again will feel the need to be pleasing to the Lord and not grieve the Holy Spirit in whom they are sealed for the day of redemption. Yet there are many fakers-pretenders out there not born of God who are masquerading as believers, Paul calls them false brethren, Jesus also calls them workers of iniquity, and they are dangerous to your wellbeing and life if you start listening to them.

Romans 8, here God is telling us nothing in all of creation can separate us from God's love which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
The 'us' here are those who are joined to the Lord as one spirit with Him. Not some pretender. The people joined have eternal life and cannot be lost, God keeps them for Himself by His great power. The scripture, written to us is for our eternal consolation, encouragement and help for all time. Our salvation is very great as salvation is of the Lord.

1 Peter 1,
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been [c]grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen you love.

The fact that there is so much teaching on false prophets and false teachers is there to help us understand why there are hateful deceptive abusive people in the church. Christ, Peter, Paul, John, all told us they would be among us, but they won't be of us.

Romans 8
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written:

“For Your sake we are killed all day long;
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.”

37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

2 Corinthians 11:26
in journeys often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils of my own countrymen, in perils of the Gentiles, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;

Galatians 2:4
And this occurred because of false brethren secretly brought in (who came in by stealth to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage),

The workers of darkness do often move about in secret, as they do not like the light, we are told to expose them. If you tell them God bless you for what you are doing, you join with them in their evil work.
Some people are obviously not walking a walk worthy of being a Christian, others deny Christ by their deeds. Others say Christ is just one way to the Father, other ways, other religions are also good to enter eternal life. They are denying the Father and the Son. My own Anglican sister-in-law says good people of other faiths or even nice good faithless people go to heaven. She gets angry if you say otherwise, and if you tell her what Christ says, she denies Christ said those things, the words are just attributed to Christ. She does not believe the scriptures.

2 John 2
Beware of Antichrist Deceivers
7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 8 Look to yourselves, that [c]we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward.

9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; 11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.

 

[Grailhunter]

Predestination; a power of God or does it make a puppet show out of all reality?

There is no doubt God has the power to predestinate the question is, does He use it rarely, categorically or does it manifest in all reality?

Does He use the power to predestine to make people evil and set the stage for evil?

What is predestination…..the words that appear in the Bible….”means things”….the words that do not appear in the Bible usually do not apply to Christianity and most of the time are proliferated to promote a false belief. I have warned about this so many times.

The words predestined and predestinate are in the scriptures.
The word predestination is not in the scriptures. Predestination and its definition is a theological term created outside the Bible with the intent to insinuate that anything mentioned in the scriptures about something being predestined is overridden by that theological term and its definition. Everything…all of reality is controlled and there is no free-will. In theology small changes can make a world of difference. As with most non-biblical terms it can be traced back to a man or a group and it is a false belief and they use the term knowingly to deceive.

There is a big difference between the power of clairvoyance and predestination. From God’s perspective He may know how everything is going to turn out. There is room to debate this, if actually God knew everything about the outcome. “So the LORD was sorry that He had made mankind on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.” And there is the number of times that He changed His mind or the number of times someone talked Him out of what He was going to do. So it is debatable. I am not saying either way.

As far as clairvoyance, God sees into the future and what He sees is the outcome of free-will. Since He sees the outcome there is no reason to lock it down.

If He wants to control something or change something He can. But the idea that all of reality is a locked down, every person a controlled robot and it all amounts to a pre-orchestrated play, is ludicrous.

Now in the Old Testament we see what God does when He actually wants something done. He works with people and assigns champions. Even commanded them to make war….He did not have to do that….He could have just stopped their hearts…..predestined heart attacks LOL

Again you have to watch when people promote words and phrases that are not in the Bible and Calvinism is full of them.

A lot people do not have the skill to see past their nose. What happens when they put their beliefs in motion? Besides it not being biblical, it is blasphemous to God the Father, portraying Him as a monstrous evil Puppet Master. That predestines evil and murder and child molestation and rape and determines who are going to do these things and who is going to hell before they are born. All and all it is a hideous religion.

 

[TEXBOW]

Predestination; a power of God or does it make a puppet show out of all reality?

There is no doubt God has the power to predestinate the question is, does He use it rarely categorically or does it manifest in all reality?

Does He use the power to predestine to make people evil and set the stage for evil?

What is predestination…..the words that appear in the Bible….”means things”….the words that do not appear in the Bible usually do not apply to Christianity and most of time are proliferated to promote a false belief. I have warned about this so many times.

The words predestined and predestinate are in the scriptures.
The word predestination is not in the scriptures. Predestination and its definition is a theological term created outside the Bible with the intent to insinuate that anything mentioned in the scriptures about something being predestined is overridden by that theological term and its definition. Everything…all of reality is controlled and there is no free-will. In theology small changes can make a world of difference. As with most non-biblical terms it can be traced back to a man or a group and it is a false belief and they use the term knowingly to deceive.

There is a big difference between the power of clairvoyance and predestination. From God’s perspective He may know how everything is going to turn out. There is room to debate this, if actually God knew everything about the outcome. “So the LORD was sorry that He had made mankind on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.” And there is the number of times that He changed His mind or the number of times someone talked Him out of what He was going to do. So it is debatable. I am not saying either way.

As far as clairvoyance, God sees into the future and what He sees is the outcome of free-will. Since He sees the outcome there is no reason to lock it down.

If He wants to control something or change something He can. But the idea that all of reality is a locked down, every person a controlled robot and it all amounts to a pre-orchestrated play, is ludicrous.

Now in the Old Testament we see what God does when He actually wants something done. He works with people and assigns champions. Even commanded them to make war….He did not have to do that….He could have just stopped their hearts…..predestined heart attacks LOL

Again you have to watch when people promote words and phrases that are not in the Bible and Calvinism is full of them.

A lot people do not have the skill to see past their nose. What happens when they put their beliefs in motion? Besides it not being biblical, it is blasphemous to God the Father, portraying Him as a monstrous evil Puppet Matter. That predestines evil and murder and child molestation and rape and determines who are going to do these things and who is going to hell before they are born. All and all it is a hideous religion.

I think I was predestined not to believe in Calvinism.

 

[atpollard]

Predestination; a power of God or does it make a puppet show out of all reality?

There is no doubt God has the power to predestinate the question is, does He use it rarely categorically or does it manifest in all reality?

Does He use the power to predestine to make people evil and set the stage for evil?

What is predestination…..the words that appear in the Bible….”means things”….the words that do not appear in the Bible usually do not apply to Christianity and most of time are proliferated to promote a false belief. I have warned about this so many times.

The words predestined and predestinate are in the scriptures.
The word predestination is not in the scriptures. Predestination and its definition is a theological term created outside the Bible with the intent to insinuate that anything mentioned in the scriptures about something being predestined is overridden by that theological term and its definition. Everything…all of reality is controlled and there is no free-will. In theology small changes can make a world of difference. As with most non-biblical terms it can be traced back to a man or a group and it is a false belief and they use the term knowingly to deceive.

There is a big difference between the power of clairvoyance and predestination. From God’s perspective He may know how everything is going to turn out. There is room to debate this, if actually God knew everything about the outcome. “So the LORD was sorry that He had made mankind on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.” And there is the number of times that He changed His mind or the number of times someone talked Him out of what He was going to do. So it is debatable. I am not saying either way.

As far as clairvoyance, God sees into the future and what He sees is the outcome of free-will. Since He sees the outcome there is no reason to lock it down.

If He wants to control something or change something He can. But the idea that all of reality is a locked down, every person a controlled robot and it all amounts to a pre-orchestrated play, is ludicrous.

Now in the Old Testament we see what God does when He actually wants something done. He works with people and assigns champions. Even commanded them to make war….He did not have to do that….He could have just stopped their hearts…..predestined heart attacks LOL

Again you have to watch when people promote words and phrases that are not in the Bible and Calvinism is full of them.

A lot people do not have the skill to see past their nose. What happens when they put their beliefs in motion? Besides it not being biblical, it is blasphemous to God the Father, portraying Him as a monstrous evil Puppet Matter. That predestines evil and murder and child molestation and rape and determines who are going to do these things and who is going to hell before they are born. All and all it is a hideous religion.

“It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.” [Macbeth, Act 5, Scene 5]

Your diatribe of completely unsupported opinions is duly noted.
A scripture verse would have been nice.

 

[Grailhunter]

“It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.” [Macbeth, Act 5, Scene 5]

Your diatribe of completely unsupported opinions is duly noted.
A scripture verse would have been nice.

All facts.....what wrong? The Truth hurts! LOL It don't make any sense....it is only for idiots.....blasphemers of God