Good people go heaven, Evil people go hell?

[alaric]

When I tell a non-believer that anyone who believed in Jesus and his finished work will be able to go heaven, they cannot accept it because it is unfair. It doesn’t matter what man thinks. But in the end, all man will be judge by God. So only what God think matters.

The ways of God is different from the ways of the world.

Isaiah 55:8-9
“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the Lord. “As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.


Man’s definition of good person

1) A person whose good deeds outweigh or remove all his bad deeds. Example: A wealth person using underhand methods to force the poor to give up their lands and properties. But use the ill-gotten possessions to build luxurious malls, offices and houses in the name of progress. Benefiting the majority at the cost of the minority. The majority sees him as a good person and believes he will go heaven.

Mark 2: 5-10
When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, “Son, your sins are forgiven.” Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, “Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?” Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, “Why are you thinking these things? Which is easier: to say to this paralyzed man, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up, take your mat and walk’? But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.”

But in the bible it is written in Mark 2: 5-10, nobody can forgive sin except God. Man can pronounce a person as good or bad. But ultimately, a person is judge based by God based on God’s standards.

2) A person with good morals, principles, conduct, achievements and heritage. Example: A person with good morals and principles like Kong Zi (Founder of Confucianism), a person of good conduct like Mother Theresa who gave to the poor all her life, a person of great achievements like Steve Jobs who gave the world the IPhone. It is hard for man to imagine anyone of them being condemned by God and thrown into hell. Where they went, I do not know. Only God knows.

So what does the bible says about all this?

Acts 22:3 (Paul’s heritage and achievements)
Then Paul said: “I am a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but brought up in this city. I studied under Gamaliel and was thoroughly trained in the law of our ancestors.

Philippians 3:5 (Paul’s heritage, achievements, conduct and morals)
If someone else thinks they have reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more: circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee; as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for righteousness based on the law, faultless.

Philippians 3: 7-8 (Paul consider he had gained and achieved as garbage)
But whatever were gains to me I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage,that I may gain Christ.

I want to highlight something interesting. Before Paul became a Christian, he was focusing on worldly achievements, human conduct and human effort. Thinking that he is able to win God’s favor with all these. But after God opened his eyes and made Paul understood the ways of God, he said this “If someone else thinks they have reasons to put confidence in the flesh”.

In a way, God is telling us that Christians can be doing church activities to win God’s favor without Christ. Outwardly it may seems very Christ-like and churchy. But in the sight of God, this is man putting confidence in the flesh.

How does man receive true salvation from God?

At the crucifixion of Jesus, Jesus said to one of the criminals “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

Question 1: Why is the criminal crucified? It is because he has committed a crime deserving the death penalty. It is written that he said “We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve.”

Question 2: What did the criminal do to be saved? He admits that he is a sinner. He believed that Jesus is the Messiah. He believed that Jesus is sinless.

Question 3: Did the criminal do anything to outweigh his bad deeds after he believed in Jesus? The bible says that he died on the cross. So he did not do anything.

Luke 23: 39-43
One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!” But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.” Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

Conclusion: There are no good people in heaven, there are no bad people in hell. There are only believers in-Christ in heaven, there are only non-believers in hell. Salvation is like a door that is unlocked and opened by the blood of Jesus. We just need to walk through the door. Anyone who truly knows their fallen helpless state and humble enough can walk through the door of Salvation even great sinners like Adolf Hitler or Osama bin laden.

Ephesians 2:8-9
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast.

 

[Bob Estey]

When I tell a non-believer that anyone who believed in Jesus and his finished work will be able to go heaven, they cannot accept it because it is unfair. It doesn’t matter what man thinks. But in the end, all man will be judge by God. So only what God think matters.

The ways of God is different from the ways of the world.

Isaiah 55:8-9
“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the Lord. “As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.


Man’s definition of good person

1) A person whose good deeds outweigh or remove all his bad deeds. Example: A wealth person using underhand methods to force the poor to give up their lands and properties. But use the ill-gotten possessions to build luxurious malls, offices and houses in the name of progress. Benefiting the majority at the cost of the minority. The majority sees him as a good person and believes he will go heaven.

Mark 2: 5-10
When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, “Son, your sins are forgiven.” Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, “Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?” Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, “Why are you thinking these things? Which is easier: to say to this paralyzed man, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up, take your mat and walk’? But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.”

But in the bible it is written in Mark 2: 5-10, nobody can forgive sin except God. Man can pronounce a person as good or bad. But ultimately, a person is judge based by God based on God’s standards.

2) A person with good morals, principles, conduct, achievements and heritage. Example: A person with good morals and principles like Kong Zi (Founder of Confucianism), a person of good conduct like Mother Theresa who gave to the poor all her life, a person of great achievements like Steve Jobs who gave the world the IPhone. It is hard for man to imagine anyone of them being condemned by God and thrown into hell. Where they went, I do not know. Only God knows.

So what does the bible says about all this?

Acts 22:3 (Paul’s heritage and achievements)
Then Paul said: “I am a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but brought up in this city. I studied under Gamaliel and was thoroughly trained in the law of our ancestors.

Philippians 3:5 (Paul’s heritage, achievements, conduct and morals)
If someone else thinks they have reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more: circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee; as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for righteousness based on the law, faultless.

Philippians 3: 7-8 (Paul consider he had gained and achieved as garbage)
But whatever were gains to me I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage,that I may gain Christ.

I want to highlight something interesting. Before Paul became a Christian, he was focusing on worldly achievements, human conduct and human effort. Thinking that he is able to win God’s favor with all these. But after God opened his eyes and made Paul understood the ways of God, he said this “If someone else thinks they have reasons to put confidence in the flesh”.

In a way, God is telling us that Christians can be doing church activities to win God’s favor without Christ. Outwardly it may seems very Christ-like and churchy. But in the sight of God, this is man putting confidence in the flesh.

How does man receive true salvation from God?

At the crucifixion of Jesus, Jesus said to one of the criminals “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

Question 1: Why is the criminal crucified? It is because he has committed a crime deserving the death penalty. It is written that he said “We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve.”

Question 2: What did the criminal do to be saved? He admits that he is a sinner. He believed that Jesus is the Messiah. He believed that Jesus is sinless.

Question 3: Did the criminal do anything to outweigh his bad deeds after he believed in Jesus? The bible says that he died on the cross. So he did not do anything.

Luke 23: 39-43
One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!” But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.” Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

Conclusion: There are no good people in heaven, there are no bad people in hell. There are only believers in-Christ in heaven, there are only non-believers in hell. Salvation is like a door that is unlocked and opened by the blood of Jesus. We just need to walk through the door. Anyone who truly knows their fallen helpless state and humble enough can walk through the door of Salvation even great sinners like Adolf Hitler or Osama bin laden.

Ephesians 2:8-9
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast.

I think when we sin, we create a hell for ourselves that we experience here on earth. When we repent of our sin, that hell goes away.

 

[Windmill Charge]

If there is a heaven then there also is a hell.

There is an entrany requirement to heaven which is not what most people think it is.
Equally there is no charge, no entry requirements for he'll, one can simple slip into it without any effort.

 

[Aunty Jane]

If there is a heaven then there also is a hell.

Have you ever done some studies on what the words translated as “hell“ actually mean in their original languages?
The ancient Jews did not have a concept that death led to some other kind of life. They were not taught that we “have a soul” that leaves the body at death, but that we are a “soul” whilst ever there is breath in our lungs and a heartbeat. Adam was not told that he was “given a soul” at his creation, but that he “became a soul” when God started him breathing. This is what a “soul” is…”a living breathing creature”. The animals that God created in Genesis are called “souls” too. (Eccl 3:19-20)

There is an entrany requirement to heaven which is not what most people think it is.

Yes, there is “an entry requirement to heaven”, but not all Christians are heaven bound. What is the reason why God created humans to live here on earth? If he wanted them in heaven, why did he not create them there? He already had a large family of spirit sons in heaven, so the creation of man initially did not require them to go to heaven at all. It was only man’s fall into sin that required a redeemer who was to become King of a kingdom that included some hand picked humans, in order to bring us back into reconciliation with God.
Jesus came to buy back (redeem) what Adam lost for his children…..sent by the Father out of his great love for mankind, who were made in his image for a reason. (John 3:16)

But what is the fate of those who do not “do the will” of the Father? (Matt 7:21) This depends on the meaning of those words which are translated as “hell”…..so what are “Sheol”….”hades”…and “Gehenna”?
Do all these terms mean the same thing? Or do they mean something else in their original languages?

”Sheol” is a Hebrew word which is translated in the Hebrew Bible as “the grave”. Sheol is the place where all the dead are buried, no matter how they died “the grave” (Sheol) is the receptacle for those who will “sleep in death”. (Eccl 9:5, 10) The dead do not participate in any activity, nor do they have the ability to plan or to utilize knowledge. Jesus was a Jew and his declaration concerning his friend Lazarus is in keeping with what is written in the Hebrew Bible. (John 11:11-14)

“Hades” is a Greek word that the Septuagint (Hebrew to Greek translation used by the apostles) translates the Hebrew, “Sheol”. So “Sheol” and “hades” mean one and the same thing……the grave. We all go to this “hell”….it’s not a scary place and there is no way to avoid it. Death comes to all of us in this world.

But what about “Gehenna”? There is no equivalent in Hebrew, except as an opposite of the resurrection. Jews did not believe in an immortal soul, but believed what the Bible said about resurrection…which is a return to life, not a continuation of it in some other place….in a different body form.

“Gehenna” means eternal death….which is “the lake of fire”…..also called “the second death”. Unlike the first death inherited from Adam, this is a death from which no return to life is possible. We know that Gehenna contains no living souls is because all consciousness ceases at death. In order to torment or to torture someone, they have to be alive…..God differentiates between spiritual life and spiritual death….those dead to God can still be breathing. Their torment is experienced whilst they are still alive in the flesh, but dead in the spirit. They hate all knowledge of God and shun his word and his morality. They love to persecute and humiliate believers.

Where does the “hellfire” aspect come from? Jesus used the symbol of gehenna, known to Jews as the garbage dump outside of Jerusaem’s walls, where the carcasses of dead animals and even the bodies of executed criminals were thrown for disposal. Those who had their body cast into Gehenna were considered unworthy of a decent burial, and hence not in line for a resurrection. It was a symbol of eternal death.
Jesus told the religious leaders of his day that they would “not escape the judgment of Gehenna” (Matt 23:23)
The wicked will be destroyed in that place as Jesus also said in Matt 10:28…
”And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell [gehenna]”. (ESV)
Those in “Gehenna” are “destroyed” not tortured. There is no such thing as Christendom’s “hell”.

Equally there is no charge, no entry requirements for he'll, one can simple slip into it without any effort.

Well, the ‘requirements’ for “Gehenna” are outlined in the Bible….those who have no time or respect for God and who intend to stay that way, have no future with him. Jesus taught us how to have a relationship with his God and Father….and it requires that we love him and are obedient to all his requirements……there is a reward for doing so…. OTOH, those bound for “Gehenna” make a point of living a godless and immoral life with no thought of consequences….they don’t believe there are any….they will lose their right to life and they will know why, when it happens.

Everlasting death is the opposite of everlasting life…there are no immortal souls and the grave has no conscious inhabitants. “Hell“, according to the Bible itself, is not as scary as Christendom portrays it…..God has no need or desire to torture anyone. The death penalty was the highest penalty paid under God’s Law.
Isn’t that enough?

 

[Taken]

Good people go heaven, Evil people go hell?​

Departed Saved living souls go to Heaven.

Departed UN-Saved living souls go to Hell.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Windmill Charge]

Have you ever done some studies on what the words translated as “hell“ actually mean in their original languages?

GOD Is described as the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob in the bible and as Jesus said God is the God of the living not of the dead.
As for he'll, I know how to avoid going there, I know something of what it cost Jesus so I leave it at that.

 

[Wrangler]

When I tell a non-believer that anyone who believed in Jesus and his finished work will be able to go heaven, they cannot accept it because it is unfair.

Grace is unfair.

Man's primary moral driver is justice. We primarily have systems of negative justice where laws are passed and violators are punished. (Some laws impose positive justice, such as collecting Social Security if you meet the age requirements.) In our system of justice, we allow for mercy - NOT receiving a negative consequence that is fairly deserved.

God's primary moral driver is grace - receiving a positive consequence that is NOT fairly deserved. It is unearned favor. He allows justice to be done - to the unbelievers. They will die in their sin and this is justice. They want justice? They will get it! Be careful what you ask for.

 

[lforrest]

When I tell a non-believer that anyone who believed in Jesus and his finished work will be able to go heaven, they cannot accept it because it is unfair. It doesn’t matter what man thinks. But in the end, all man will be judge by God. So only what God think matters.

The ways of God is different from the ways of the world.

Isaiah 55:8-9
“For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,” declares the Lord. “As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.


Man’s definition of good person

1) A person whose good deeds outweigh or remove all his bad deeds. Example: A wealth person using underhand methods to force the poor to give up their lands and properties. But use the ill-gotten possessions to build luxurious malls, offices and houses in the name of progress. Benefiting the majority at the cost of the minority. The majority sees him as a good person and believes he will go heaven.

Mark 2: 5-10
When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, “Son, your sins are forgiven.” Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, “Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?” Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, “Why are you thinking these things? Which is easier: to say to this paralyzed man, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up, take your mat and walk’? But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.”

But in the bible it is written in Mark 2: 5-10, nobody can forgive sin except God. Man can pronounce a person as good or bad. But ultimately, a person is judge based by God based on God’s standards.

2) A person with good morals, principles, conduct, achievements and heritage. Example: A person with good morals and principles like Kong Zi (Founder of Confucianism), a person of good conduct like Mother Theresa who gave to the poor all her life, a person of great achievements like Steve Jobs who gave the world the IPhone. It is hard for man to imagine anyone of them being condemned by God and thrown into hell. Where they went, I do not know. Only God knows.

So what does the bible says about all this?

Acts 22:3 (Paul’s heritage and achievements)
Then Paul said: “I am a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but brought up in this city. I studied under Gamaliel and was thoroughly trained in the law of our ancestors.

Philippians 3:5 (Paul’s heritage, achievements, conduct and morals)
If someone else thinks they have reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more: circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee; as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for righteousness based on the law, faultless.

Philippians 3: 7-8 (Paul consider he had gained and achieved as garbage)
But whatever were gains to me I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage,that I may gain Christ.

I want to highlight something interesting. Before Paul became a Christian, he was focusing on worldly achievements, human conduct and human effort. Thinking that he is able to win God’s favor with all these. But after God opened his eyes and made Paul understood the ways of God, he said this “If someone else thinks they have reasons to put confidence in the flesh”.

In a way, God is telling us that Christians can be doing church activities to win God’s favor without Christ. Outwardly it may seems very Christ-like and churchy. But in the sight of God, this is man putting confidence in the flesh.

How does man receive true salvation from God?

At the crucifixion of Jesus, Jesus said to one of the criminals “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

Question 1: Why is the criminal crucified? It is because he has committed a crime deserving the death penalty. It is written that he said “We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve.”

Question 2: What did the criminal do to be saved? He admits that he is a sinner. He believed that Jesus is the Messiah. He believed that Jesus is sinless.

Question 3: Did the criminal do anything to outweigh his bad deeds after he believed in Jesus? The bible says that he died on the cross. So he did not do anything.

Luke 23: 39-43
One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!” But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.” Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

Conclusion: There are no good people in heaven, there are no bad people in hell. There are only believers in-Christ in heaven, there are only non-believers in hell. Salvation is like a door that is unlocked and opened by the blood of Jesus. We just need to walk through the door. Anyone who truly knows their fallen helpless state and humble enough can walk through the door of Salvation even great sinners like Adolf Hitler or Osama bin laden.

Ephesians 2:8-9
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast.

I agree and would go further to say that thinking of heaven and hell as reward and punishment is a rather simplistic and selfish view.

It disregards what God wants from his creation. God's will is that all would be saved, and he has made a way for that to happen in Jesus Christ. If only everyone would accept him.

God's Glory is also beyond our comprehension, sinful man can not endure his presence. And all have sinned, meaning none can approach him save for having Jesus Christ as their covering. This diminishes the eternal reward concept for me.

We are as the spoils of war, and Christ is victorious.

 

[Wrangler]

I agree and would go further to say that thinking of heaven and hell as reward and punishment is a rather simplistic and selfish view.

Yet, we have to have an answer on this simplistic level of understanding and I think it is found in Romans 2:6
God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”

As you said, there is more to the story (thank God) but there is that.

 

[APAK]

I think when we sin, we create a hell for ourselves that we experience here on earth. When we repent of our sin, that hell goes away.

Actually Bob, a simple message yet of deep thought at the same time...true repentance, the real and best way to rid ourselves of a deep nagging congested 'head' that wants to linger on..

 

[lforrest]

Yet, we have to have an answer on this simplistic level of understanding and I think it is found in Romans 2:6
God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”

As you said, there is more to the story (thank God) but there is that.

Yes, we will be judged according to our works as it is written.

I imagine how this will transpire. God knows the heart and will associate our motivations to the actions.

Deeds that we think are good often have come from selfish or dubious motivations. What we imagine is good may not be so. Gifts given out of social obligation, they are dubious. Even giving out of fear of hell I would worry is selfish and dubious. Not to mention when our convictions are mistaken and we are doing evil but think it is good, because our heart is in the wrong place.

But anything we do knowing it is evil is automatically a stain on the soul, regardless of the actual result.

 

[Aunty Jane]

GOD Is described as the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob in the bible and as Jesus said God is the God of the living not of the dead.

If you read that in Luke 20:37-38 it says…
”But that the dead are raised up, even Moses made known in the account about the thornbush, when he calls Jehovah ‘the God of Abraham and God of Isaac and God of Jacob.’ 38 He is a God, not of the dead, but of the living, for they are all living to him.”

What does this mean to those who know what the Jews were taught about death? Their Scripture did not teach that the dead are still alive (Eccl 9:5, 10)…on the contrary this is Luke talking about the resurrection of the dead. This is so sure to God, that it is as if the dead are still “living to him”. He can awaken them, restoring them to life as he longs to do for all who have succumbed to the results of Adam’s sin.

The Jews did not believe in immortal souls who live on after their body dies…..they believed that the dead “sleep” in death until the call to rise that Jesus spoke about in John 5:28-29…

“Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment.”

He said the hour is “coming” when the dead will rise….not that it had already happened.

What do we learn from Jesus and the resurrection of Lazarus? Where did Jesus say his friend was?
John 11:11-14…
”After he said these things, he added: “Lazʹa·rus our friend has fallen asleep, but I am traveling there to awaken him.” 12 The disciples then said to him: “Lord, if he is sleeping, he will get well.” 13 Jesus, however, had spoken about his death. But they imagined he was speaking about taking rest in sleep. 14 Then Jesus said to them plainly: “Lazʹa·rus has died”.

Was Lazarus in some other place, conscious of his surroundings? NO! Jesus said he was “sleeping” and he was going to awaken him from the sleep of death. Did Lazarus speak of being anywhere after death…..wouldn’t he have said something about his “after death experience” if he was somewhere amazing?
Yet he never said a word about being anywhere.

As for he'll, I know how to avoid going there, I know something of what it cost Jesus so I leave it at that.

Well, that all depends on whether you have the Bible’s view of “hell”, or Christendom’s. They are poles apart.
Jesus‘ death paid for our sins, but we continue to sin if we subscribe to false ideas about life and death.

Immortality of the soul is not a Bible teaching, but it is universally accepted in all forms of false worship.
Why is that? Because it perpetuates the first lie that the devil told in Eden…”you surely will not die”…

It’s the way satan disguises death to be a continuation of life somewhere else. His demons have been supporting that lie ever since, masquerading as dead people in order to keep this belief going. Satan has the whole world believing his lies.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Most people go to Pugatory in fact !

People who go to hell are worthy of such Hell ! if one was to look back on their life ? one would be regretfull that that was the stupid path that they took ! they only caused hell of earth for they only abided in such !

The People who go to Heaven are few ! They must be of the Kingdom of God before hand. Truly Born again and Saved in fact !

They who are not worthy of Hell go to Purgatory ! that's most people !

Jesus went to Purgatory in fact to take the OT Saints to Heaven in fact ! for they were worthy of God.
Their was no place in Heaven for them untill Christ Jesus came, So God made a place for them !

Everyones Soul goes to Pugatory bar for some who may go directly to Hell. like Hitler and Starlin for sure ! Joe Biden and Obama and H Clinton and Kamala are on that track for sure ! oh and Nazi Pelocy !

 

[Windmill Charge]

that all depends on whether you have the Bible’s view of “hell”, or Christendom’s. They are poles apart.
Jesus‘ death paid for our sins, but we continue to sin if we subscribe to false ideas about life and death.

Christianity teaches what the Bible says.
Jesus told us there where many rooms in his fathers house, that he was going to prepare a place for us.
Revelation tells us that God is going to dewll among his people.

We do not earn or deserve a place in heaven, it is a gift part of our salvation given to us by Jesus.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Christianity teaches what the Bible says.

I can tell you now that what passes for “Christianity” today bears no resemblance to that which Christ and his apostles began.

Jesus told us there where many rooms in his fathers house, that he was going to prepare a place for us.
Revelation tells us that God is going to dewll among his people.

We do not earn or deserve a place in heaven, it is a gift part of our salvation given to us by Jesus.

A very important truth that I came to learn after walking away from the church of my birth, was that not all Christians are going to heaven…..and that this was not a bad thing.
Christ did indeed tell his disciples back then that he was going to “prepare a place” for them “in his Father’s house”…..but where was his Father’s house and why did they need to find a home there?

When we examine the Genesis account, the beginning of the story, tells us how it ends. How so?
Isa 55:11….
”So my word that goes out of my mouth will be.
It will not return to me without results,
But it will certainly accomplish whatever is my delight,
And it will have sure success in what I send it to do.”

What God starts, he finishes….so what did he start with the material creation that must have sure success?
Why are we here?
Gen 1:26-30…
”Then God said: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every creeping animal that is moving on the earth.” 27 And God went on to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him; male and female he created them. 28 Further, God blessed them, and God said to them: “Be fruitful and become many, fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving on the earth.”

29 Then God said: “Here I have given to you every seed-bearing plant that is on the entire earth and every tree with seed-bearing fruit. Let them serve as food for you. 30 And to every wild animal of the earth and to every flying creature of the heavens and to everything moving on the earth in which there is life, I have given all green vegetation for food.” And it was so.”

What do you see there in God’s stated purpose for this earth and mankind, made “in his image”? What is our purpose here? If God wanted us in heaven, why did he not just create us there, like he did with the angels?
Do you see what the beginning looked like?

Unlike the angels, human children of God were mortal….which means that they needed their life sustained by external means…food, oxygen and water were required to sustain the lives of all the “souls” that God created to share life with us here on this unique and carefully prepared planet. Every living, breathing thing designed to live on planet Earth, is called a “soul” in the Bible. All of the things needed to sustain their life were supplied in abundance, perpetually, which means that the planet would never run out of food, oxygen or water….

What instructions did the first humans receive?….
”God said to them: “Be fruitful and become many, fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving on the earth.”

So, “filling the earth” with their children and “subduing” the earth (which means bringing it under their control) meant that God created humankind to take care of all that he created here…..they were to “subdue” the land outside the garden that God planted, (giving them a living example of what he wanted the whole world to look like)….so they would extend its boundaries until the whole earth resembled the garden of Eden. What a wonderful prospect!

Having children would provide more willing workers and with bodies designed for the task and an intellect superior to all other creatures, humans were to be God’s representatives here….to be caretakers of all that he had worked hard to create.

Were these mortals going to live a life of pleasure, only to get old or sick, and die?
Death was only mentioned to Adam as a penalty for disobedience, so according to Gen 3:17-24, only after the fall did they lose the prospect that was originally set before them….

“And to Adam he said: “Because you listened to your wife’s voice and ate from the tree concerning which I gave you this command, ‘You must not eat from it,’ cursed is the ground on your account. In pain you will eat its produce all the days of your life. 18 It will grow thorns and thistles for you, and you must eat the vegetation of the field. 19 In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”. . . . .

God then said: “Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad. Now in order that he may not put his hand out and take fruit also from the tree of life and eat and live forever,—” 23 With that Jehovah God expelled him from the garden of Eʹden to cultivate the ground from which he had been taken. 24 So he drove the man out, and he posted at the east of the garden of Eʹden the cherubs and the flaming blade of a sword that was turning continuously to guard the way to the tree of life.”

Read that carefully….and take in what it says….
There were two trees in the garden of significance, drawn to their attention…..one was “the tree of life” which was there to guarantee everlasting mortal life in the flesh….and the other was “the tree of the knowledge of good and evil” which carried the death penalty if they ate of its fruitage. So right from the beginning man was given free will and given the right to exercise it within the parameters set by the Creator.

As long as they refrained from eating of the fruit that God had declared was his own property, they would have access to the other tree providing the mean to live forever here on earth. No “heaven or hell” was ever mentioned to Adam…..his only choice was “life or death”…something God reiterated to the nation of Israel when they were given the same choice. (Deut 30:19-20)

So this is the beginning of the story that tells us how it ends…..Christ came to buy back (redeem) what Adam had lost for his children….which was everlasting life on this planet in beautiful paradise surroundings.

The only reason why God chose some humans for a heavenly inheritance, was because all the rulers and priests in God’s Kingdom have spent time on planet earth as human beings, including their King, Christ Jesus. These alone have a unique perspective, having lived as sinful humans, or in Jesus’ case to have lived among them. They will be compassionate “kings and priests” who are individually chosen by God for that role….they are a finite number….”firstfruits to God and to the Lamb”. (Rev 14:1, 4) Firstfruits denote a secondary crop, mentioned in Rev 7:4, 9-10, 13-14. A “great multitude“ are also seen as tribulation survivors, attributing salvation to God and the Lamb.

Rev 20:6…
”Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and they will rule as kings with him for the 1,000 years.”

These “chosen ones” alone will rule with Christ in heaven, but their subjects will be on earth, as it says in Rev 21:2-4….
“ I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

This is the future prospects for the majority of the human race…..those redeemed by Jesus sacrifice will be saved when “the former things have passed away”. This will include survivors of this world’s end, as well as all who have died, who are at present “sleeping” in death, awaiting their resurrection. (1 Thess 4:13-17; John 5:28-29)

God’s original purpose for the human race will be reinstated…..with all praise going to the Creator for having used the rebellion to teach us all the value of obedience….a lesson that will never be lost or forgotten.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Christianity teaches what the Bible says.
Jesus told us there where many rooms in his fathers house, that he was going to prepare a place for us.
Revelation tells us that God is going to dewll among his people.

We do not earn or deserve a place in heaven, it is a gift part of our salvation given to us by Jesus.

Offered by Christ Jesus ! not given ?

One must abide in Christ Jesus to be worthy as his Body.
It's not a one off free gift, that you win as a get out of Jail card, that many demand it is.

Such is a free Gift in that it's freely open to all, too pick up and hold on to such a gift ? for when one does, then you are Saved !

If one thinks it's a Gift for themselves, on their own worldly merit to boast ? and not abiding in the Body ? or the Head ! That is not the Gift in fact, but as I have seen in such peoples works, just a conduct of a Licance too Sin ! and they demand they can kill anyone regardless etc etc and still demand to all, that they are going to Heaven ?
It's they who are making the call of who goes to Heaven ! no one can make that call to another ? but for the hope within expressed truly abiding in the Body and Head ! for in regards all peoples sake within. Not of ones own ego driven boasting that I have seen some peddle, like a great whore. because such does not come from Above but is only clearly that display rantings of this world in fact.
It's all about look at me and what I have done ! worldly boast ! and my god, gods ?

No worthy Christian boast of what they or others have done at all in fact ! but that of Christ Jesus did in them ! for they hold all of the Glory to Christ Jesus working through them all. never that of themselves or what Carnal people look for !

 

[Windmill Charge]

A very important truth that I came to learn after walking away from the church of my birth, was that not all Christians are going to heaven…

That is a direct contradiction of what Jesus said.
I suspect you mean church attenders or those like jehovahs wittness who call them selves christian but arn't.

 

[Windmill Charge]

Offered by Christ Jesus ! not given ?

Something that is offered and received is something that is given.

 

[Aunty Jane]

That is a direct contradiction of what Jesus said.
I suspect you mean church attenders or those like jehovahs wittness who call them selves christian but arn't.

When I left Christendom, it was because of the ridiculous doctrines that no one could back up with Scripture, and the conduct of a divided “church” system of worship that could never come together on anything except on the few foundational doctrines carried over in the Reformation from the Roman Catholic church…..(even getting strong divisions over politics when Jesus told us to be “no part of the world”.)
On these few things alone they would remain united, but the disunity in reality divided them even in death. A visit to the local cemetery demonstrates that denominational discrimination is still alive and well, even in this secular world, as the denominational signs indicate.

Christians cannot be divided on anything…..as Paul said….
”Now I urge you, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you should all speak in agreement and that there should be no divisions among you, but that you may be completely united in the same mind and in the same line of thought.”

Does that describe Christendom? God’s spirit unites his people…it does not divide them.
If that does not describe our “Christianity” then who are the real Christians?
Not the majority as Jesus said….
”Go in through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are finding it.”

Why is it that “few” are finding the narrow exit gate leading to a cramped and difficult road to life, whilst the majority are on a superhighway to destruction?
Those whom Christ is blessing as his his true disciples are the ones “doing the will of his Father”. (Matt 7:21-23) Those found NOT doing it, will be very shocked at their rejection. Do the majority know what the will of the Father is? Do the majority even know what the words of the Lord’s Prayer mean? My church never told me. Has yours?

Since we will all stand before the same judge, where will he put us? Will we be found as unquestioning “goats”, accepting doctrines that we are told are truth, or will we be the questioning “sheep” who test out every doctrine to make sure that it is in line with Jesus’ teachings? Is our faith well founded or has the devil done a number on us by presenting a counterfeit as the real thing? Jesus said that this is what he would do…..have we really examined what the Bible teaches for ourselves?
This is an important question because most people accept “theology” but have little to no knowledge of the entirety of what the Bible teaches….which is what Jesus taught.

 

[Triumph1300]

That is a direct contradiction of what Jesus said.
I suspect you mean church attenders or those like jehovahs wittness who call them selves christian but arn't.

I think there are lots of people in "Christian Churches" who call themselves "Christians", but in reality don't even have a clue what "being born again" means.

In order to be saved one needs to be born again. The last time I heard a local pastor preach on that is most likely a couple of years ago.

Just because someone sits in a "Christian Church" every sunday/wednesday, does not mean they are Christian.
I often wonder what the % of real Christians on sunday morning is.