God's Hatred

[Johann]

ὀργή​

Transliteration
orgē (Key)
Pronunciation
or-gay'


KJV Translation Count — Total: 36x
The KJV translates Strong's G3709 in the following manner: wrath (31x), anger (3x), vengeance (1x), indignation (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]

1. anger, the natural disposition, temper, character
2. movement or agitation of the soul, impulse, desire, any violent emotion, but esp. anger
3. anger, wrath, indignation
4. anger exhibited in punishment, hence used for punishment itself
   1. of punishments inflicted by magistrates

Yes? It is Gods wrath and indignation! That is not a invitation to a tea and crumpets party.

YOu are free to reject TULIP but can you defend your Amenian belief biblically?

In the argument with TULIP the only alternative is the five points of Jacob Armenius!

Here is my take-I try and stay strictly biblical and avoid the ditches and landmines.

You have, like a Calvinist, post a ream of verses and totally neglect context! The who, what where, when--

BUT--

Conditional Election
Arminian View: God’s election is based on His foreknowledge of who would freely choose to believe in Him. Election is conditional upon human response to God's grace.

Calvinist Contrast: Calvinism holds to Unconditional Election, where God’s choice to save individuals is not based on any foreseen merit or decision but solely on His sovereign will.

2. Universal Atonement
Arminian View: Christ's atonement is available to all people. Jesus died for everyone, and His sacrifice provides the potential for salvation to all, though not all will be saved.

Calvinist Contrast: Calvinism teaches Limited Atonement, where Christ’s atonement is specifically for the elect, and His sacrifice effectively secures salvation only for those chosen by God.

3. Total Depravity with Free Will
Arminian View: While humanity is depraved and affected by sin, God's prevenient grace enables individuals to respond to the gospel freely. This grace restores the capacity to choose or reject salvation.

Calvinist Contrast: Calvinism asserts Total Depravity, where human will is bound by sin and cannot choose God without irresistible grace.

4. Prevenient Grace
Arminian View: God’s grace is given to everyone, enabling them to respond to the gospel. This grace precedes human decision and makes it possible for people to choose to accept or reject salvation.

Calvinist Contrast: Calvinism teaches Irresistible Grace, where God’s grace is given only to the elect and effectively brings them to faith without fail.

5. Conditional Security

Arminian View: Believers can fall away from grace and lose their salvation if they turn away from faith. The security of salvation is conditional upon continued faith and perseverance.

Calvinist Contrast: Calvinism supports Perseverance of the Saints (often expressed as "Once Saved, Always Saved"), asserting that those truly elected by God will persevere in faith and cannot lose their salvation.

--reading through this, yep, should I choose a side-you can label me Arminian.

Take note-I don't attack you or Calvin and Luther nor the Reformers.
Next time you post a verse, please make sure re the context.
Shalom.
J.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Most Christians confine God to be a God of love, who loves everyone unconditionally. They believe He is trying His hardest to sell salvation, and save everyone from an eternity in the flames of hell by offering eternal paradise, instead. But the vast majority reject His free offer and mock Him for making such a foolish offer, and they choose hell instead.

But I do think God is Perfect Love. That is why I pointed out God hates animal sacrifices, and burnt offerings and “your new moons and appointed feast” also.

To me God hates those things …and more because those things do not have the power to make any perfect. As others have mentioned His perfection is that He not only loves those who love Him, but God goes further in not only loving those who love Him, but also His enemies and those that hate Him (as such were some of you. Or we all were once the enemies of God for whom He died for.)

Animal sacrifices do not teach any man how to love those who hate them. All the verses about we must hate these things…mother, father, brother, sisters and even our own life…or we can’t be His disciples. Do we ever consider we must first be powerless and consumed in our hate, to be discipled as those who are sick and in need of a physician, so the transformation is of God and not of men? His Word says we must hate those things. We are told (or I have been told of men) that in hating those things we are in the place to be discipled of Christ. Saul hated. And then Paul was born out of the discipline of Christ. The Word also says unless we loose those things …mother, father, brother, sister, and even our own Life that we can’t be Christ’s disciples. Don’t forget Paul said the more I love you, the less I be loved. That is loosing those things but I don’t see where it’s because we hate them…there are so many other verses that have to be reconciled with …I personally don’t think those passages in hating your mother, father, sister, brothers and even your own Life are a badge to excuse hating our own flesh. So many contradictions like “when you hide not yourself from your own flesh” then God will say “here I Am.”

According to these Christians, God is a poor salesman, who can't even sell eternal paradise for free. Perhaps God should have attended one of those weekend seminars, where motivational speakers share their secrets of how to become a successful salesman.

It’s the opposite where we try to sale love doesn’t overcome hatred…instead hatred overcomes love.

I personally don't want anything to do with a god, who loves everyone unconditionally. I can't think of a more pathetic and foolish god than that.

Exactly. That is why He is perfect. Makes no sense right? How different He is from men.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Should I believe you or Jesus? I'll stick with Jesus. You really HATE your family? Wow!

Matthew 5:44
44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,

Why do you only embrace half of the scriptures and trash the other half. I embrace the whole counsel of God, while you only embrace half of it. Wow!!!!

 

[Jack]

Why do you only embrace half of the scriptures and trash the other half. I embrace the whole counsel of God, while you only embrace half of it. Wow!!!!

No you don't. You don't pluck out your eyes and chop off your hands. You just pick the parts you like. You seem to love hating others, including those who are supposed to be your loved ones!

 

[Christian Soldier]

No you don't. You don't pluck out your eyes and chop off your hands. You just pick the parts you like. You seem to love hating others, including those who are supposed to be your loved ones!

But I have plucked my eye out, and cut my limbs off (metaphorically speaking). See you need to learn how to understand the bible. You read it like it was some kind of comic book, and that's why you're so confused about so many simple bible doctrines.

I have broken all of the ten commandments, after I was converted and baptized. Becoming a born again Christian doesn't mean we have the power to live a sinless life. Born again Christians do commit sins like murder, but we don't make a habit of it. So we try to resist the temptation to murder or commit adultery but, we don't always overcome the temptation and we are overwhelmed by our lust to murder and commit adultery.

Jesus wasn't saying we cut off ou arm if we have killed someone, He was saying if our hand causes us to sin, (meaning habitually sin), then yes, cut it off. But that doesn't apply to being overcome by temptation, while we are trying to resist. Jesus knows that none of us can resist lust all the time, that's why He paid fore every past, present and future sin of Gods elect.

 

[Jack]

But I have plucked my eye out, and cut my limbs off (metaphorically speaking).

Where do you find that in the Bible? Oh you just make it up!

See you need to learn how to understand the bible. You read it like it was some kind of comic book, and that's why you're so confused about so many simple bible doctrines.

You hating your family is not like a comic book. It's Satanic!

I have broken all of the ten commandments, after I was converted and baptized. Becoming a born again Christian doesn't mean we have the power to live a sinless life. Born again Christians do commit sins like murder, but we don't make a habit of it. So we try to resist the temptation to murder or commit adultery but, we don't always overcome the temptation and we are overwhelmed by our lust to murder and commit adultery.

Jesus wasn't saying we cut off ou arm if we have killed someone, He was saying if our hand causes us to sin, (meaning habitually sin), then yes, cut it off. But that doesn't apply to being overcome by temptation, while we are trying to resist. Jesus knows that none of us can resist lust all the time, that's why He paid fore every past, present and future sin of Gods elect.

IOW, you pick the parts you like and you're filled with HATRED! That's what Satan's children do, HATE people!

 

[Jack]

OK, you stick with that Jesus,

But I'll stick with the Jesus who commanded us to hate our parents.

Luke 14:26 ,“If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and even life itself, cannot be my disciple.“

The Jesus of hate, is more exciting that the meek and mild, long haired hippy version of Jesus, who loves everyone unconditionally. I just don't like that Jesus.

So you hate all your family, your brothers, sisters, wife and children?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

OK, you stick with that Jesus,

But I'll stick with the Jesus who commanded us to hate our parents.

There is a difference in “parents”. He told the Pharisees and religious that sought to kill Him that their father was the father of all lies. What if that is the father God hates? Surely God hates a liar? There is a mother too …the bond woman, the Adulteress Woman where she leads “her children” unto death. Her Way is death. There is also the Mother from above …New Jerusalem which is Free and bears fruit unto God. Which “mother” and “father” do we say He speaks of? Especially when he gives the commandments to love your mother and father?? I’ve seen this message throughout my life that breeds hatred of those of your own household. There is a man that stands up town on a street corner (in our town) with a bullhorn …to him God’s hate is also far more interesting than God’s love. He shouts hell-fire-and brimstone. his daughter goes to school with my grandson. She told my grandson it’s embarrassing and how none of the family has seen him in years because he is disappointed and despises them as he says the word of God says he should hate them. How he is in a good place. It’s bogus if you ask me. The man is an attention seeker and uses God’s words for his own desire (advancement) to check out on his family. As if THEY are the problem.

Luke 14:26 ,“If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and even life itself, cannot be my disciple.“

Reconcile with Paul saying “the more I love you, the less I be loved.”

It is easy to strut around spewing things to random strangers. It’s easier to drop and run a message. But it’s beyond possible to remain where God placed us…with those we encounter always and who rub us the wrong way…we need His help the most in the relationships that are the most difficult for us to “endure” “hardship” because oh wow it stings from those of our own flesh. The fight gets real to love as He loved. It’s far easier to run or vacate to some other place where no one knows our weaknesses…to others that maybe will make it easy for us and pat us on the back. Anyone can pretend things out in the public eye…behind closed doors though with the family and friends…they loose the facade around them.

The Jesus of hate, is more exciting that the meek and mild, long haired hippy version of Jesus, who loves everyone unconditionally. I just don't like that Jesus.

Give us a hate filled Jesus! Don’t give us a Lamb…that is boring and useless…Give unto us A LION!

The way I see it …there are only two ministrations.
The ministration of death unto condemnation.
Or The ministration of The Spirit.
^one has glory(the ministration of death unto condemnation) but by the second…the first really has no glory in comparison to the GLORY that excels “The ministration of the Spirit of Grace” ….

death unto condemnation …hatred may have glory
But Death and condemnation really has no glory at all, in comparison to the Glory that excels which is the Love of God…where there is NO MORE condemnation for those in Christ. Why go backwards to say “the ministration of death unto condemnation” is far more useful and exciting —-given much more respect….than the Lord is pitiful and full of Mercy, loving even His enemies?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You have, like a Calvinist, post a ream of verses and totally neglect context! The who, what where, when--

Well it is easy to say that, but how about presenting evidence that I have done so.

Take note-I don't attack you or Calvin and Luther nor the Reformers.
Next time you post a verse, please make sure re the context.

Next time you make this accusation, please give the evidence that I am taking things out of context.

YOu said you are an armeniast if you had to choose. Okay. Can you defend it biblically and not take verses out of context as you say I do?

 

[Johann]

Well it is easy to say that, but how about presenting evidence that I have done so.

Next time you make this accusation, please give the evidence that I am taking things out of context.

YOu said you are an armeniast if you had to choose. Okay. Can you defend it biblically and not take verses out of context as you say I do?

I'm too tired to have this discussion, yes, God's word don't need defending-it is rightly dividing the D'varim of YHVH that's crucial.
You are highly strung and easily offended, a recipe for disaster.
J.

 

[Behold]

Some Christians believe that God wants us to love our enemy, but we see that Gods forbids us to love our enemy the world.

Jesus laid His life down for the very people who wanted to see Him Hang on The Cross, suffer and die.... and in fact, pursued this fervently with Pilate.


God is Love., and He or She that does not love, is none of God's.

And this is not talking about feelings of love.....

Its describing the Heart of Love, and that is 2 things..

1.) Sacrifice
2.) Compassion

And what are those?

Those are this...

A.) MERCY

"for God so LOVED the world"..

= For God's Mercy was so freely given to the world, as a continuing act of His Divine Love.

Jesus's Blood shed on The Cross, is God's Love being shed for SINNERS.

Jesus is the Heart of God.

And when we forgive, and when we sacrifice, = when we put others first, and see about them before we worry about ourselves.. and that has become WHO we are........when that becomes AUTOMATIC behavior..


NOW you are walking in love.

Jesus said that there is no greater love then laying down your life for someone...

However, that is Jesus describing the Love of a Human...

The Love of God is Greater, as God gave His Son to His ENEMIES.......

See that LOVE ?????


God is LOVE.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Where do you find that in the Bible? Oh you just make it up!

You hating your family is not like a comic book. It's Satanic!

IOW, you pick the parts you like and you're filled with HATRED! That's what Satan's children do, HATE people!

I don't find any faithful believers, cutting of their limbs and plucking their eyes out in the bible. So that proves that real Christians know Jesus was speaking metaphorically, because we have been given the gift of discernment, so we're not perplexed by the scriptures as you obviously are.

Your dead wrong about "hating my family" I'm simply obeying my Lord, and you have a problem with it. You problem is not with me, it's with the Lord God Himself.

I embrace the whole counsel of God, so you can't accuse me of doing what you do. That is hypocrisy, you seem to have it in spades.

 

[Christian Soldier]

So you hate all your family, your brothers, sisters, wife and children?

I follow Jesus, so I have no choice other than to hate them because that's what He said I have to do if I want to follow Him. It's not a pleasant command but it must be obeyed.

 

[Christian Soldier]

There is a difference in “parents”. He told the Pharisees and religious that sought to kill Him that their father was the father of all lies. What if that is the father God hates? Surely God hates a liar? There is a mother too …the bond woman, the Adulteress Woman where she leads “her children” unto death. Her Way is death. There is also the Mother from above …New Jerusalem which is Free and bears fruit unto God. Which “mother” and “father” do we say He speaks of? Especially when he gives the commandments to love your mother and father?? I’ve seen this message throughout my life that breeds hatred of those of your own household. There is a man that stands up town on a street corner (in our town) with a bullhorn …to him God’s hate is also far more interesting than God’s love. He shouts hell-fire-and brimstone. his daughter goes to school with my grandson. She told my grandson it’s embarrassing and how none of the family has seen him in years because he is disappointed and despises them as he says the word of God says he should hate them. How he is in a good place. It’s bogus if you ask me. The man is an attention seeker and uses God’s words for his own desire (advancement) to check out on his family. As if THEY are the problem.


Reconcile with Paul saying “the more I love you, the less I be loved.”

It is easy to strut around spewing things to random strangers. It’s easier to drop and run a message. But it’s beyond possible to remain where God placed us…with those we encounter always and who rub us the wrong way…we need His help the most in the relationships that are the most difficult for us to “endure” “hardship” because oh wow it stings from those of our own flesh. The fight gets real to love as He loved. It’s far easier to run or vacate to some other place where no one knows our weaknesses…to others that maybe will make it easy for us and pat us on the back. Anyone can pretend things out in the public eye…behind closed doors though with the family and friends…they loose the facade around them.


Give us a hate filled Jesus! Don’t give us a Lamb…that is boring and useless…Give unto us A LION!

The way I see it …there are only two ministrations.
The ministration of death unto condemnation.
Or The ministration of The Spirit.
^one has glory(the ministration of death unto condemnation) but by the second…the first really has no glory in comparison to the GLORY that excels “The ministration of the Spirit of Grace” ….

death unto condemnation …hatred may have glory
But Death and condemnation really has no glory at all, in comparison to the Glory that excels which is the Love of God…where there is NO MORE condemnation for those in Christ. Why go backwards to say “the ministration of death unto condemnation” is far more useful and exciting —-given much more respect….than the Lord is pitiful and full of Mercy, loving even His enemies?

I believe Luke 14:26 is specifically referring to our biological family. I appreciate all those examples you gave are all sound bible doctrines but I don't believe that Jesus was referring to those in Luke 14:26

The only application that makes sense to me, is Jesus ways saying "if your love for your family doesn't look like hate, compared to your love for Me then you can't follow Me".

Matthew 22:37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment.

As you can see, we are not commanded to love anyone else in this way. The love we have or God must make the love we have for our family and look like hate in comparison.

If God didn't hate evil doers, then He would be a corrupt and evil judge Himself. The only people who hate justice are the wicked evil doers, the righteous people rejoice at the judgement and condemnation of the wicked.
God must be love and hate at the same time, otherwise His love is meaningless.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Why in the world would you expect me to take any notice of what an unbeliever has to say to a believer. There are no Jews in the Body of Christ. I can't understand why any professing Christian would allow an unbeliever to minister to them.

It's a sad inditement of your Arminian religion, that you resort to taking counsel from unbelievers. This explains why you're so confused about what it means to be a Christian.

 

[Christian Soldier]

But I do think God is Perfect Love. That is why I pointed out God hates animal sacrifices, and burnt offerings and “your new moons and appointed feast” also.

To me God hates those things …and more because those things do not have the power to make any perfect. As others have mentioned His perfection is that He not only loves those who love Him, but God goes further in not only loving those who love Him, but also His enemies and those that hate Him (as such were some of you. Or we all were once the enemies of God for whom He died for.)

Animal sacrifices do not teach any man how to love those who hate them. All the verses about we must hate these things…mother, father, brother, sisters and even our own life…or we can’t be His disciples. Do we ever consider we must first be powerless and consumed in our hate, to be discipled as those who are sick and in need of a physician, so the transformation is of God and not of men? His Word says we must hate those things. We are told (or I have been told of men) that in hating those things we are in the place to be discipled of Christ. Saul hated. And then Paul was born out of the discipline of Christ. The Word also says unless we loose those things …mother, father, brother, sister, and even our own Life that we can’t be Christ’s disciples. Don’t forget Paul said the more I love you, the less I be loved. That is loosing those things but I don’t see where it’s because we hate them…there are so many other verses that have to be reconciled with …I personally don’t think those passages in hating your mother, father, sister, brothers and even your own Life are a badge to excuse hating our own flesh. So many contradictions like “when you hide not yourself from your own flesh” then God will say “here I Am.”



It’s the opposite where we try to sale love doesn’t overcome hatred…instead hatred overcomes love.

Exactly. That is why He is perfect. Makes no sense right? How different He is from men.

Your theology contradicts everything God said. God said He hates certain people, while He loves others, why do you reject what God said?, is it because you hate the truth?.
Why do you reject the fact that God hates some people before they are born, even though God plainly said it.

I'm not sure what your motive is, for rejecting God's Word but I imagine, you have fallen victim to a wolf in sheep's clothing who teaches you false doctrine. Or you hate the truth, so you made up your own false doctrine.

Your comment about God loving those He hates and dying for them is highly blasphemous, it makes God a liar and it makes a mockery of the gospel. You won't find a single verse in the bible which states any such foolish thing. You quoted what was spoken to Gods elect saints, and applied it to the Devils children, as if God wants to adopt bustards to be His children.

There will be no children of the Devil in Gods Kingdom, to suggest that there will is incredibly blasphemous.

You base your theology on your private opinion of how you want God to be, but God will not come down to your level.

 

[Jack]

I don't find any faithful believers, cutting of their limbs and plucking their eyes out in the bible. So that proves that real Christians know Jesus was speaking metaphorically, because we have been given the gift of discernment, so we're not perplexed by the scriptures as you obviously are.

But it's literal when you HATE your family! Such hypocrisy!

Your dead wrong about "hating my family" I'm simply obeying my Lord, and you have a problem with it.

So you do hate your family! That's Satanic!

You problem is not with me, it's with the Lord God Himself.

You're the one who said you hate your parents. God didn't.

I embrace the whole counsel of God, so you can't accuse me of doing what you do. That is hypocrisy, you seem to have it in spades.

I don't hate anyone. I'll leave that to you. You said:

"Yes I hate my parents"

 

[Jack]

I follow Jesus, so I have no choice other than to hate them because that's what He said I have to do if I want to follow Him. It's not a pleasant command but it must be obeyed.

Do you really think HATING your parents is HONORING them? Your HATRED is Satanic!

Exodus 20:12
12 "Honor your father and your mother, that you may live long ...

 

[Christian Soldier]

Jesus laid His life down for the very people who wanted to see Him Hang on The Cross, suffer and die.... and in fact, pursued this fervently with Pilate.


God is Love., and He or She that does not love, is none of God's.

And this is not talking about feelings of love.....

Its describing the Heart of Love, and that is 2 things..

1.) Sacrifice
2.) Compassion

And what are those?

Those are this...

A.) MERCY

"for God so LOVED the world"..

= For God's Mercy was so freely given to the world, as a continuing act of His Divine Love.

Jesus's Blood shed on The Cross, is God's Love being shed for SINNERS.

Jesus is the Heart of God.

And when we forgive, and when we sacrifice, = when we put others first, and see about them before we worry about ourselves.. and that has become WHO we are........when that becomes AUTOMATIC behavior..


NOW you are walking in love.

Jesus said that there is no greater love then laying down your life for someone...

However, that is Jesus describing the Love of a Human...

The Love of God is Greater, as God gave His Son to His ENEMIES.......

See that LOVE ?????


God is LOVE.

I don't enjoy correcting people, but it is necessary. Jesus didn't lay down His life for everyone. He only did it for the elect of God. Because He said, "all that the Father gives Me will come to me, and I shall lose none"
He also said;

John 17:9 I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours. 10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them.

Notice Jesus didn't even pray for the salvation of the world, let alone lay down His life for them.

God is not love, there is much more to God than love. He is also hate, He is also jealous, He is also just, He is also angry everyday, He is also a Man of war and I could go on and on. You can't just pack God into a little love box and pretend that's all He is.

God commands me not to love the world, but according to you theology I should love the world. The word "world" refers to unbelievers. He said "love not the world".

For God so hates thew world that He killed every man, woman, child and baby in the womb with a world wide flood. He only spared 8 people and you're trying to tell me He loved those He destroyed, give me a break. You only destroy those you hate.

Your description of love is not found in the bible, the bible describes love in;

1 Cor 13:4
Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

For Gods mercy is freely given to His elect only, the rest get judgement and wrath.

We never attain this automatic behavior in this life, that only becomes automatic to saved people in the life to come, when we receive our glorified, sinless bodies and we receive the mind of Christ. Until then we will sin everyday of our lives.

God didn't give His Sons life for His enemies, that is a lie, He gave His Sons life to save His elect only.

 

[Christian Soldier]

But it's literal when you HATE your family! Such hypocrisy!

So you do hate your family! That's Satanic!


You're the one who said you hate your parents. God didn't.

I don't hate anyone. I'll leave that to you. You said:

"Yes I hate my parents"

Jesus said, I can't follow Him unless I hate my family. Why can't you get that through your head, why are denying what He clearly said.

I'm not asking you to obey Jesus or follow Him, that's you decision to make. You say obey Christ is Satanic, so it's obvious we serve different Masters.

Jesu said, "you can't serve two Masters, you will love One and hate the other". I know who I love and He is not your Master.